Oregon is a Fascist State

[jimboston]

I suppose in the literal sense, it's legit because it's not against the law.

And yes, I understand that sometimes the law is stupid, but in this case I don't think it is. Democracy is a conversation. "Parliament" is derived from the French word for speech. Your word Congress has similar origins -- it is derived from the Latin term "let us walk together" which contains the unspoken adjunct "let us walk and talk together." The assumption in having debates in Parliament/Congress is that all points of view will be considered before a decision is made. There will be conversation, give-and-take, compromise.

And yet, we know that in real life Parliaments and Congresses often do not behave in that idealized way. Majority parties bring forth legislation and ram it through by sheer force of numbers, completely disregarding valid concerns that minority parties bring up. That isn't how democracy is supposed to work. The concerns brought up by minority parties are supposed to be thoughtfully considered, not simply overruled just because someone has a strong majority.

When minority concerns are completely disregarded by a bullying majority, I do think it is right and proper that the minority should employ whatever guerilla tactic they can come up with to try to bring the bullying under control.

I don’t disagree with much of what you say. To be completely honest I really only threw my voice in here because NP was on the ‘side’.

Seriously though I’m sure he’d be cheering if a Republican Governor was going after absentee Democratic Senators.

That said, I still have two ‘problems’...

1) Just cause it’s legal doesn’t mean you can’t or shouldn’t have a way to ‘fire’ these people who don’t show up for work. Except maybe in some special circumstances like doctors (healthcare workers) or lawyers it’s not illegal for me to walk out of my job... but if I do that I still get fired even though it’s perfectly legal for me to skip my shift at Starbucks.

2) I agree there are times when legislative ‘tactics’ or really tricks do make sense and are necessary... that said it seems to me that these are being used way too frequently and not always in times when ‘necessary’. It’s part of the disintegration of norms in our government and it’s not good. It’s not a Democrat or Republican problems, it’s a problem on both sides of the aisle.

[jimboston]

debating is the process of presenting your side of the argument and backing up your assertions with facts...
not requiring everyone to answer questions for you..
do your own research..
come back when your actually prepared

Ha.

I’ve tried that... but we know your MO.

When confronted with actual facts you do three things...
1) Ignore them.
2) Misquote your opponents
3) Throw insults

So i’ll ‘Debate’ how I feel thanks.

in this thread you have posed 8 questions, a pile of what you think & zero facts..
so... yeah you tried that for sure.. .. you 'debate' however you feel..

... and you have made statements saying that you can’t compare paid employees of the taxpayers to other paid employees.

My simple question was why do you think this comparison can’t be made and is ‘idiocracy’?
I’ve used simple logic to explain why this comparison is valid. I admitted the comparison does not prove 100% equivalency, but it’s still a valid comparison. Now you can address how it’s not valid and demonstrate all the areas where the comparison fails... or you can ignore and insult.

You feel you can make stupid unsupported statements.... but I can’t ask you to provide a logical argument to support your statement?

I mean... you can of course do that... it is a free country and a free forum.

... but we all see through it. Sorry to disappoint you but you’re only fooling yourself.

[NomadPatriot]

or you can ignore and insult.

a few words later...
-->

You feel you can make stupid unsupported statements....

-------

people vote for elected officials because elected officials do the government work for everyone who elected them or voted againist them regardless of their vote.
democrat, republican. they all represent the people who are in their districts and do their part in forming the ideals of what the people who elected them or voted againist them want. sometimes they agree and things go smooth as butter.. sometimes they disagree & negotiations are needed. they have legal ways of doing this process. the representatives of Oregon are doing things in a legal way.
the Governor is not..

transpose this concept onto a hired employee.
a hired employee at a business does not do the work for everyone in that district. they do the work for the people who directly engage with them. ( example: McDonald's employees do not engage with Burger King customers.. ) so the managers of that business have an obligation to the customers of that business & no obligation to anyone who does not engage with their business.. . the customers of burger King can not come in and demand a McDonald's employee be fired because their Burger King fries are cold..
but that is what you are suggesting . that elected officials & hired employees are the exact some.

[jimboston]

people vote for elected officials because elected officials do the government work for everyone who elected them or voted againist them regardless of their vote.
democrat, republican. they all represent the people who are in their districts and do their part in forming the ideals of what the people who elected them or voted againist them want. sometimes they agree and things go smooth as butter.. sometimes they disagree & negotiations are needed. they have legal ways of doing this process. the representatives of Oregon are doing things in a legal way.
the Governor is not..

transpose this concept onto a hired employee.
a hired employee at a business does not do the work for everyone in that district. they do the work for the people who directly engage with them. ( example: McDonald's employees do not engage with Burger King customers.. ) so the managers of that business have an obligation to the customers of that business & no obligation to anyone who does not engage with their business.. .

Yah. You can use some logic.



So at least there is some thought behind why you refute my idea of firing no-show legislators. Good for you.

Of course I would still say that the no-show Legislators are not representing anyone when they don’t show up... I would suggest they are derelict in their dutIes to all their constituents, both those who elected them and those who voted against them.

So under what circumstances is it ok for a Legislator to be a no show?
Who decides? Is there a reasonable time limit for this ‘tactic’ or should it be open ended? Is it ok to no-show for political purposes only or can you no-show for any reason?

Even if I were to concede it’s occasionally a valid tactic, I would still suggest that there must be some reasonable limits.

the customers of burger King can not come in and demand a McDonald's employee be fired because their Burger King fries are cold.. but that is what you are suggesting.

No. I’m not suggesting anything like that at all... not even close.

I’m suggesting that McDonald’s can fire it’s own employees because they don’t show up for work.
I’m suggesting the tax-payers (McDonald’s) should be able to fire Legislators (the employees) when they don’t show up for work.

See my suggestion is NOTHING LIKE what you are saying it is. You again try to change my suggestion/comments.
So again, you’re either doing this intentionally because you think it’s funny... or you’re an idiot.
I believe it’s the latter.

but that is what you are suggesting . that elected officials & hired employees are the exact some.

Actually, if you were to READ what I wrote, you would have noted that I’ve specifically acknowledged the fact that they are NOT the exact same. I recognize there are differences, but that doesn’t make comparison impossible. Do you fee things must be EXACTLY IDENTICAL to make comparisons? I think the whole point of comparisons is valuable when you can talk about both similarities and differences. You DO seem to have a serious problem with anything not black&white.

[NomadPatriot]

he points out I made a typo.. then..

his reply:

Do you fee things must be EXACTLY IDENTICAL to make comparisons?

[jimboston]

he points out I made a typo.. then..

his reply:

Do you fee things must be EXACTLY IDENTICAL to make comparisons?

Yes... I only pointed out you made typo to demonstrate your hypocrisy in another thread.

I’ve previously stated everyone makes typos. It happens.

I’ll only shame you when you shame others.

It doesn’t make me a hypocrite... but it does demonstrate your hypocrisy.

Do you need a link?

[jimboston]

Also... you’ve again demonstrated how you avoid points by throwing insults.

Good job.

[NomadPatriot]

[KoolBak]

If you look closely, you can see the fascists hiding amongst the rattlers, badgers and chukar....

PS - that's Idaho on the other side of the Snake River, so no fascist peeegs there

[KoolBak]

And I'm ready if I flush any out....

[TA1LGUNN3R]

debating is the process of presenting your side of the argument and backing up your assertions with facts...
not requiring everyone to answer questions for you..
do your own research..
come back when your actually prepared

idk, Socrates did a pretty good job being the big cheese of his time by asking questions in his debates.