Canada's Moral High Ground

[HitRed]

First, I'd like to say almost every country in the world has a favorable view of Canadains. Some foreign corporations even set up businesses in Canada as they see it as 'America without all the baggage'. Anyway, a political spat between any country and Cananda is rare.

Saudi Arabia expels the Canadian ambassador after receiving criticism of its treatment of rights activists.

I'm impressed with Canada as this will cost them dearly. The Saudi will be pulling out 10,000-16,0000 Saudi college students from Canadian Universities. Here in Texas, Saudi students are famous for PAYING FULL TUITION.

Standing up for others isn't always easy. You will likely have little company on the hill. But it is noted that you looked beyond yourself and did stand up.

[DoomYoshi]

First, I'd like to say almost every country in the world has a favorable view of Canadains. Some foreign corporations even set up businesses in Canada as they see it as 'America without all the baggage'. Anyway, a political spat between any country and Cananda is rare.

Saudi Arabia expels the Canadian ambassador after receiving criticism of its treatment of rights activists.

I'm impressed with Canada as this will cost them dearly. The Saudi will be pulling out 10,000-16,0000 Saudi college students from Canadian Universities. Here in Texas, Saudi students are famous for PAYING FULL TUITION.

Standing up for others isn't always easy. You will likely have little company on the hill. But it is noted that you looked beyond yourself and did stand up.

When Osama bin Laden offered help to the Sauds and they chose instead the Americans to be their ally, it started a chain of events that lead to 9/11. One would think that the Americans would realize that alliance with the Saudi Arabians is a bad thing, yet they continue.

I am really glad that there will be no more Sauds in our schools. I just wish they would get rid of the Chinese, the Koreans and the Russians too. All 4 of those groups send large hordes of extremely rich kids to our schools. Student life is supposed to be a struggle and eating kraft dinner etc. These kids all show up with Maseratis and Aston Martins. And they speak gross languages and smell up all the classrooms.

[armati]

Sounds like Canada cares, but maybe not enough to stop selling the Saudis weapons.

Think Canada will mention this?
50 dead, mostly kids, in Saudi-led coalition's 'legitimate' airstrike on Yemen bus. @R

Canada hasnt said a darn thing about the kids Saudi has been killing for years now.
The cholera they've created,starvation etc
Nor the Saudis using isis and Al-Qaeda in Syria and Yeman, not a word.

But A couple of jailed civil activists they decide to make an issue of?

Just kinda makes ya go hmmmm

[Dukasaur]

Thanks, HitRed.

I'm glad the government is holding its ground. It will be expensive, but a stand on principle is good for the soul.

[patches70]

Ahhh, the ole "moral highground" meme. Pat yourselves on the back, take a bow, and high five to endless conflict. Because that is what you are celebrating if you think about it.

One could ask what is it Canada's business whether Saudi women can drive or not only to be answered "Human Right's are everyone's business". Of course that just raises more much tougher questions. Who decides what are "basic rights" or "universal values" anyway? Saudi Arabia has an absolute monarchy that had never before allowed women to drive, always whipped criminals and has always had the death penalty. When did these practices first begin to contradict "universal values"?
The United States certainly can't defend women's rights to drive in Saudi Arabia when women weren't even allowed to vote in the US until after WWI. Homosexuality and abortions are now considered Constitutional rights. Will Canada be pushing the Saudi's on those particular "rights"?

The things that we in the West consider "rights" are reprehensible to islamic teachings. Should Canada champion the cause of homosexuals in the Arab world? Good luck with that! Should Canada stand up to Saudi beheadings and crucifixions? The House of Saud just the other day carried out a very rare crucifixion upon a rapist murderer, a punishment reserved for only the most heinous of crimes in the Kingdom.

In the US the first amendment protects libel, slander, filthy language, blasphemy, pornography, flag burning and published attacks on religious beliefs, our country itself, and the government of the United States. If other nations regard these "rights" as social suicide then does the West have an obligation, the "moral highground" to intervene in those nation's internal affairs to promote said "rights"?

And you'll ignore armanti, but he raises a good point. I know no one cares about Yemen, but what is going on there puts the horror that is Syria to shame. In China the Uighurs and other ethnic minorities by the millions are imprisoned, tortured, "re-educated" and are simply disappeared. Canada is completely silent on this. Apparently the rights of Uighurs rank too far below the rights of Saudi feminists for Canada to be bothered.

That's the problem with the "moral highground", the values you are defending are not accepted by literally billions of people. These values are not "universal". And then, in the spirit of never ending conflict, because Canada's supposed "moral highground" isn't nearly high enough because there are far greater injustices going on in the world that she stays silent about. If the Canadians were to be true to their "moral highground" they'd be condemning virtually every single nation of the Earth.
In nearly 50 nations of the Earth are Muslim majority that believe Allah is the one True God and all other religions are false. Do they not have the right to insist on the primacy of their faith in the nations they rule? And since Islam is not only a religion it is also a social and political ideology, have they not the right to insist that they rule their own countries according to the tenants of their faith?

For if the answer to that is "no" then you have a recipe for endless conflict.

So take a bow, Canada, you just stepped into a big pile of bullshit and are for some reason happy about it. Take care or you'll slip, fall down and end up face first in a steaming pile bovine feces. Will you still be smiling then?

[notyou2]

We don't need the Saudis.

FYI Patches, we are vocal on this issue as they have a man jailed that holds dual citizenship. They just jailed his sister, that is why we spoke up.

[Neoteny]

The cool thing about this is Canada got KSA to pretty much admit they did 9/11.

[patches70]

We don't need the Saudis.

FYI Patches, we are vocal on this issue as they have a man jailed that holds dual citizenship. They just jailed his sister, that is why we spoke up.

If you are talking about Raif Badawi, then you've got a problem. Raif was arrested at which point his wife and children fled Saudi Arabia (wise choice, IMO) to Canada, where I'm assuming they were granted asylum? I assume they because Canadian citizens.
So Raif was also granted Canadian citizenship at that point, which is where the dual citizenship comes into play?

I'm just trying to understand, so bear with me if you would.

If Raif is granted dual citizenship after he's arrested, that changes the scheme a little bit? I could understand if it was a Canadian citizen being arrested in Saudi Arabia would cause a stir. Though people have to remember that when visiting other countries they don't have the same rights there as they do in their own country. So people should be careful IMO.
But back to Raif, if that's the circumstances, then yeah, I can see exactly why the Saudi's would ignore Canada's concerns and even be offended by them. It's not a good fight to pick for Canada.

Now his sister, Samar, I was unaware she has dual citizenship. Considering what she's doing, her family history that to the Saudi officials are deemed "radical", yeah, she's going to run afoul of Saudi laws.
The other woman is as far as I know a Saudi citizen, not Canadian.

In the US, not long ago, that kid who was arrested in North Korea and finally returned and then pretty much immediately died because the Norks beat him so badly, his crime was stealing a poster off a wall. Is that punishment just? Absolutely not. Am I outraged? Yes, at the kid because he didn't have the sense enough to understand that he can't be acting like a fool in repressive regimes like North Korea. Same with those American college basketball players who got arrested in China for shoplifting. They were lucky that the Trump administration was able to secure their release, but if they hadn't been released and had to serve 10 year prison sentences for simple shoplifting, then yeah, that's on them for acting like stupid morons in a foreign country.

Saudi Arabia isn't Canada, or the US, their laws are repressive, strict and from our POV excessive, but that's irrelevant because it's not our country. When entering another country you have to obey that country's laws. If you can't abide by that caveat then it's probably not a good idea to go to said country in the first place, ever.

Samar is trying to change her country's laws. There is going to be a lot of tough things she'll have to go through to succeed, and she'll probably fail. The thing is that it's not a good idea to poison your diplomatic ties with another country over this. Canada doesn't have the leverage over Saudi Arabia and it could have and should have been handled a bit more....diplomatically.

Nation's don't like other nations trying to dictate how they rule. Canada isn't going to like the US telling her how to run things, just like Saudi Arabia is going to get offended by Canada's stance. I'm willing to bet that the Canadian administration didn't think that Saudi Arabia would react like she did and had they known the Kingdom would react like this would have toned down their rhetoric. But now the cat's out the bag and it's all an exercise in futility because the US isn't going to back Canada over this. The US has other plans with Saudi Arabia that we don't want put at risk over this. A sad reality, but reality none the less. ATM the US is trying to form what is basically an Arab NATO and those geopolitical interests are going to far outweigh Canada's spat with the Kingdom.

It's just a novice and naive diplomatic move by Canada. Ya should know better I'd think.

[KoolBak]

When Osama bin Laden offered help to the Sauds and they chose instead the Americans to be their ally, it started a chain of events that lead to 9/11. One would think that the Americans would realize that alliance with the Saudi Arabians is a bad thing, yet they continue.

I am really glad that there will be no more Sauds in our schools. I just wish they would get rid of the Chinese, the Koreans and the Russians too. All 4 of those groups send large hordes of extremely rich kids to our schools. Student life is supposed to be a struggle and eating kraft dinner etc. These kids all show up with Maseratis and Aston Martins. And they speak gross languages and smell up all the classrooms.

*sidesteps moral / political debate*

THIS post made me go lmao...thanks for the coffee up the nose Yoshmeister ;o)

Even back in the early eighties, I recall vividly this exact scenario. Then it was benzes and bentleys but same smell....was irritating as hell, and they ACTED so superior as well....was a slightly different mix (Iranian heavy) but gods it was frustrating since they had to rub your nose in it

[nietzsche]

I remember when i arrived in my Maserati, american students will be parking their bikes and make disgusted faces at me, i thought it was because i was peacocking and had chosen a pink Maserati for some days, checkered red-white for other days.

I didn't know they disliked my smell.

[HitRed]

I remember when i arrived in my Maserati, american students will be parking their bikes and make disgusted faces at me, i thought it was because i was peacocking and had chosen a pink Maserati for some days, checkered red-white for other days.

I didn't know they disliked my smell.

SPOG (Students Paid by Other Governments). Or the worse SSPOG (Smelly Students Paid by Other Governments).

Nice car!

[KoolBak]

Nyetz....get a Bentley Continental Speed and swing by! We can get all smelly together

[armati]

notyou2 wrote "They just jailed his sister, that is why we spoke up."


"No clause or article of the Constitution, nor the Bill of Rights, is safe. The George W. Bush and Obama regimes destroyed two of the most important protections of civil liberty—habeas corpus and due process. Bush declared indefinite imprisonment on suspicion alone without evidence or trial. Obama declared execution of US citizens on accusation alone without due process. The Justice (sic) Department wrote legal memos justifying torture, thus destroying the constitutional protection against self-incrimination. One of the authors of the memos is now a professor of law at UC Berkeley. The other is now a federal judge, indications that respect for the Constitution and enforcement of US and international laws against torture is fading in law schools and the federal judiciary."

From "Is There Enough of America Left To Be Saved?

Paul Craig Roberts


I dont think ameicans give a crap about civil rights, laws, free speech or any stinkin constitution or bill of rights.
As Carlin said "we have 1 right, the right to right this way".

For sure there is a reason why Canada said something, but as a vassal of the U.S. nothing was said without direction, I just gotta doubt it was because someone was jailed.

Bit of an aside, if a canadian citizen gets in trouble with the law in a foreign country, the government says they wont do anything.
Canadians have been told repeatedly, they are on their own.

[mookiemcgee]

Ummm... You ever been to Canada?

[DoomYoshi]

When Osama bin Laden offered help to the Sauds and they chose instead the Americans to be their ally, it started a chain of events that lead to 9/11. One would think that the Americans would realize that alliance with the Saudi Arabians is a bad thing, yet they continue.

I am really glad that there will be no more Sauds in our schools. I just wish they would get rid of the Chinese, the Koreans and the Russians too. All 4 of those groups send large hordes of extremely rich kids to our schools. Student life is supposed to be a struggle and eating kraft dinner etc. These kids all show up with Maseratis and Aston Martins. And they speak gross languages and smell up all the classrooms.

*sidesteps moral / political debate*

THIS post made me go lmao...thanks for the coffee up the nose Yoshmeister ;o)

Even back in the early eighties, I recall vividly this exact scenario. Then it was benzes and bentleys but same smell....was irritating as hell, and they ACTED so superior as well....was a slightly different mix (Iranian heavy) but gods it was frustrating since they had to rub your nose in it

This thread took a turn for the better for at least a little bit.

[HitRed]

Until reading these Posts I kinda viewed Canada as the Western Hemispheres Switzerland.

[riskllama]

Until reading these Posts I kinda viewed Canada as the Western Hemispheres Switzerland.

awfully nice of you to say, HR - i for one, appreciate your kind words.

[notyou2]

We are unapologetic to the sods Sauds

[armati]

mookie,

I live in Canada, did my time in the forces from N.S. to B.C., was never sent overseas.
My father finished the 2nd war in Germany with the Canadians, my Grandfather was at Vimy Ridge with the Canadians.

On top of that I have had sex with aboriginal women, some people dont believe your Canadian until you do.

That Canadian enuff for you? lol

The Canadian gov has expressed on MSM more than once that if a Canadian breaks the law in a foreign country they are on their own,
if a Canadian is kidnapped in a foreign country they are on their own.
If a Canadian marry's a foreigner they are responsible for that person for ten years, if that foreign person takes everything the Canadian owns...too bad...gotta be careful who you marry.


The Canadian gov is pretty choosy where they stick their nose, there has to be a reason, for example, they didnt say a word about the cash they gave Hillary for Haiti, and Haiti never saw a penny of it. Hmmmm

imo there is a reason the Canadians said something about these activists, I doubt they are telling us what it is.

Just an opinion.

[notyou2]

Sounds like a conspiracy theory in the making.