Star Wars Spoiler Alert

[jusplay4fun]

Agreed. His relationship with Rey was put on hold, it seems. As one movie reviewer said, there are too many characters to develop in the movie. He did not do much this time, except get taken out of Heroic sequence and to be a martyr by the Oriental Gal.......

JP

What in hell was Fin's function in this movie? The entirity of character development seems to be about Rey and Ren. All of Fin's plotline seems to be nothing but a sequence of mindless action scenes set in stark contrast to Rey.

[DirtyDishSoap]

What in hell was Fin's function in this movie? The entirity of character development seems to be about Rey and Ren. All of Fin's plotline seems to be nothing but a sequence of mindless action scenes set in stark contrast to Rey.

Finn is already fleshed out. He was fleshed out from the first movie. There's nothing more to add to the character, the same thing with Po.

Finn is your typical coward that's capable of doing great feats when pushed in a corner. They pushed that narrative in the first film, they did it again in the second, except towards the end where he attempts to sacrifice himself, whilst Rose saves him, creating a pretty terrible romance plot.

Po is exactly what (Leia? Or whoever the pink haired chick was), had called him. A hot headed action hero with no foresight. The only development he received by the end of the film was that he was able to somewhat become a leader in the future. These characters, imo, are just secondary. They have very little narrative behind them and will more than likely not receive any attention in terms of development, or in the case of the 2nd film, very little.

[jusplay4fun]

You make very valid theories; we will have to wait to see what happens in the next film(s).

JP

What in hell was Fin's function in this movie? The entirity of character development seems to be about Rey and Ren. All of Fin's plotline seems to be nothing but a sequence of mindless action scenes set in stark contrast to Rey.

Finn is already fleshed out. He was fleshed out from the first movie. There's nothing more to add to the character, the same thing with Po.

Finn is your typical coward that's capable of doing great feats when pushed in a corner. They pushed that narrative in the first film, they did it again in the second, except towards the end where he attempts to sacrifice himself, whilst Rose saves him, creating a pretty terrible romance plot.

Po is exactly what (Leia? Or whoever the pink haired chick was), had called him. A hot headed action hero with no foresight. The only development he received by the end of the film was that he was able to somewhat become a leader in the future. These characters, imo, are just secondary. They have very little narrative behind them and will more than likely not receive any attention in terms of development, or in the case of the 2nd film, very little.

[betiko]

I think Luke is the last jedi, later on the movie you can see Rey toom the books from the tree and put them on the Falcon, maybe study the teachings of the jedi but never fully follows their teachings?

This x100.

It borrows heavily from the original trilogy. And nothing was ever explained.
Lukes now this hopeless mope sucking on the tits of an alien on a remote island. See's the error of his ways, force projects himself, and then dies. I half expected him to raise the X-Wing out of the water and travel to the planet and have a similar send off to Ben Kenobi, but f*ck all, they didn't even give him that courtesy. He just embraces the force and vanishes. Lame. LAME.
Snoke, one of the most mysterious characters introduced, is also killed off in a lame fashion. No backstory given, nothing provided as to whom he is exactly and how he rose to power after Palpatines death. He's just there, then dies.

I don't hate the movie, I enjoyed it actually, but f*ck, these little things mentioned above drive me crazy.

I was thinking maybe we find out snoke will be Rey's dad? It's the only reason I could think of that they introduce the character and kill him off right away... They can no go back and piece his story together by explaining her past or something along those lines... But then again maybe they just plow forward and never mention him again lol.

I had seen a theory before the episode 8 saying that snoke was in fact... master Windu. I thought it was a very interesting theory. Why did master windu have the only purple light saber? Wasn t that some sort of balance in the force between red and blue sabers?
Darth sidious just throws him in the air, he was probably burned badly, but who hasn t seen a jedi survive from a fall from a building?

[betiko]

I'm fine with them "Plowing forward without mentioning Snoke again."

I missed Rey taking the Jedi texts.

I thought it was clear Luke threatened to burn them in the storage tree. Then he had a change of heart. Suddenly Yoda caused lightning to strike the tree burning it, with all the books contained within.

That settled it and Luke was the last Jedi because it ended there with the fire... but Yoda does then explain Rey will be acquire all the knowledge, adding,"Won't it be the same even if it won't be named the same?"

In english, you can say "the last jedi" jedi being plural.
I ve had a lot of arguments with spanish friends about this. In french and spanish, "the return of the jedi" is singular. Who was returning? Anakin or Luke? Was it a bad translation and was it actually jedi plural?
"The last jedi" is translated into plural in french. I saw it yesterday in a french theater in plural when the text started at the begining (the actual title of the movie is left in english). I will have to check if it s plural in spain too.

[jusplay4fun]

JUS to clarify TWO points:

1) the Female character's name (purple-haired Admiral Holdo) and the Actress (Laura Dern) and

2) the moment of SILENCE, that I totally forgot about, BUT is interesting:

In the scene, purple-haired Admiral Holdo, played by Laura Dern, sacrifices herself to save the Resistance. She crashes her ship into a First Order destroyer, allowing the Resistance’s escape pods to get away.

At that precise moment the sound in the movie cuts out — an unconventional creative decision by director Rian Johnson.

There is no John Williams music, no sound effects, just silence as Holdo’s heroism fills the screen.

“We had always hoped that would resonate, both as a story beat and as a striking visual, and when I heard all of the cries and gasps in the silence, it was just fantastic,” the movie’s visual effects supervisor, Ben Morris, told Collider entertainment website.

“We realized that it worked. That’s never really happened in ‘Star Wars’ before.”

And maybe because that’s never really happened in “Star Wars” before, some folks are confused by the intentional silence.

from: http://www.kansascity.com/entertainment ... 92524.html

JP4Fun

What in hell was Fin's function in this movie? The entirity of character development seems to be about Rey and Ren. All of Fin's plotline seems to be nothing but a sequence of mindless action scenes set in stark contrast to Rey.

Finn is already fleshed out. He was fleshed out from the first movie. There's nothing more to add to the character, the same thing with Po.

Finn is your typical coward that's capable of doing great feats when pushed in a corner. They pushed that narrative in the first film, they did it again in the second, except towards the end where he attempts to sacrifice himself, whilst Rose saves him, creating a pretty terrible romance plot.

Po is exactly what (Leia? Or whoever the pink haired chick was), had called him. A hot headed action hero with no foresight. The only development he received by the end of the film was that he was able to somewhat become a leader in the future. These characters, imo, are just secondary. They have very little narrative behind them and will more than likely not receive any attention in terms of development, or in the case of the 2nd film, very little.

[mrswdk]

Episode VII was good but VIII seems to be running out of ideas. Big empire is in charge, small ragtag group of rebels are trying to resist it, they will continue to resist it in episode IX, and X, and probably on and on as nauseum. Maybe now that the Death Star and Death Planet have been destroyed, Episode IX will feature a Death Universe. How is Star Wars anything other than a cookie cutter Marvel or DC superhero franchise now?

When Kylo Ren started telling Rey that they need to forget about the Jedi v Dark side/good vs bad boxes of the past and unite it seemed like something interesting might actually be about to happen. But then Rey immediately rejected him flat because apparently exploring the way that reality is more grey than black and white is too interesting and thoughtful for Star Wars. Boring.

[betiko]

Episode VII was good but VIII seems to be running out of ideas. Big empire is in charge, small ragtag group of rebels are trying to resist it, they will continue to resist it in episode IX, and X, and probably on and on as nauseum. Maybe now that the Death Star and Death Planet have been destroyed, Episode IX will feature a Death Universe. How is Star Wars anything other than a cookie cutter Marvel or DC superhero franchise now?

When Kylo Ren started telling Rey that they need to forget about the Jedi v Dark side/good vs bad boxes of the past and unite it seemed like something interesting might actually be about to happen. But then Rey immediately rejected him flat because apparently exploring the way that reality is more grey than black and white is too interesting and thoughtful for Star Wars. Boring.

I didn t dislike at all episode VIII, i liked it more than VII actually.
I think that there were a lot of plot twists that did surprise me a lot.
-Snoke getting killed that early without anything about his back story revealed...
-Rei's attraction for the dark side and kylo's attraction for the bright side that are pretty ambiguous throughout the movie
-Rei really being a random chick. No supreme skywalker or kenobi or whatever lineage. A true plot twist.
-Mark Hamill turns out to be pretty awesome even though i hadn t seen him in 30 years.

What did you expect? Of course it's always going to be about a resistance and an evil empire.
How could rei and kylo end up in an aliance? Where would you go from there? They get married, with children, no jedi/sith/force teaching at home, and a lot of administrative paper filling to run the galaxy. Creating gender pronouns for every specie, and over 38 toilet genders for every sex encountered in the galaxy. Tax reforms, paying the credits for all the death star expenses (those were at least 1000 years credits). Maybe they should just declare bankrupt from there dude. Even if they changed the brand from empire to first order, the mother company is still the same.
Then maybe they would both have a fight regarding the conditions of bank A vs bank B.

I think you ve got something mrswdk!

[patches70]

Ok, this particular movie was a mess. Visually it was great. The acting was decent for the most part (except for Leia and the Blue haired lady, they were horrible). The dialog was a bit Star Warsy, but I suppose that's to be expected.
But the plot holes.
You might not have noticed, or thought about as you were watching, but the scene when DJ (Banderas) betrays Fin and Rose and gets paid by the First Order and gets to leave. The information he gave the First Order was that the rebels were escaping via transports to the nearby planet. How did he know that? No one knew about that, not Fin, not Rose, not Poe. In fact, Poe was deliberately left out of the loop. So how the f*ck did DJ find out about it?

The part where the Blue Haired admiral flew the cruiser into Snope's ship. That was a visually great scene, absolutely. The rebels knew they were being tracked. They knew that the tracking device was on Snope's ship. Seems like it would have been tactically a good idea to do that particular move a bit earlier before all their ships got destroyed. Lose the one ship, the rest get away. They wait until half their transports are blown up. Heck, one of the other ships, just before they ran out of fuel could have been used to do the exact same thing. Use the last bit of fuel to ram Snoke's ship. They were light speed capable as well.

Rey apparently can use the force to teleport. She was on Snoke's demolished ship and then she's on the Falcon. How'd that happen? Bet ya didn't notice that little diddy, but now it's gonna bug ya. Maybe a deleted scene from the director's cut will sort that out.

Then there was the cringe inducing scene with Leia, the incredulity of it. That was just terrible and stupid. Nuff said about that debacle of a scene.

And apparently now, force ghosts can call down lightening from the sky. It's canon now, but it's still a facepalm of a moment and nearly as groan worthy as Leia's scene.
Also, why the hell was Yoda acting like crazy Yoda? If we remember back to the very first time we ever meet Yoda, way back in Empire Strikes Back, when Luke first meets Yoda, Yoda is a crazy little gremlin getting into all of Luke's stuff. Just acting like a crazy cat lady until he finally reveals himself to Luke as THE Jedi Master that Luke had come looking for. Yoda didn't act all crazy after at. But in Last Jedi force ghost Yoda is a lot like crazy Yoda from Empire. Why? Who's he trying to fool?

The most interesting character to me is Kylo. He seemed kind of whiny in the first film, but I'm getting to understand him a little better now. He's now actually a bad ass villain now. It's great.
The character of DJ embodies the what Kylo is finally realizing. DJ's character, played by Banderas, the "DJ" stands for "Don't Join". He wears a thing a ma bod that says, literally, "Don't Join". That's the essence of what Kylo's been going through. From a young age, due to his heritage, he's been bottled up into joining the Jedi. He's had it drilled into his head that he's supposed to do this, fight for that, struggle against them. He finally realizes that he's always just been a pawn and has decided that he's going to just tear all that down and make his own destiny. Or at least that's what he thinks he's doing, or hoping to do.

His character is also symbolic of how JJ Abrams is approaching Star Wars now that he's taken the helm of the franchise. He is wiping the slate clean to start anew. Sweep away the past and go into a new future. Whether or not that is going to work, I guess we'll see.

I can see what this director from the Last Jedi was trying to do, what he was going for, but it just didn't quite work. Abrams himself will be directing the next movie, so hopefully it'll be better.
But I like the characters of Kylo and Rey at least. The rest are pretty "meh".

A tiny point you might not have noticed, this was the first Star Wars movie in the history of the franchise where during the film no two light sabers actually crossed. There were no light saber duels. Not a one, a fist in all of Star Wars history. People complained that the Force Awakens was too much like a New Hope, so for this movie they threw out everything anyone would have expected in a Star Wars movie. Snoke gets offed with nary a whiff of who or what he really was. Luke Skywalker has done a complete 180 character arc acting like he'd never been like before, a true cynic. Skywalker was a lot of things but he was never a cynic.

Well, Last Jedi was a mess of a movie, but it was still better than the prequels. So it's not a total bust.

[mrswdk]

Episode VII was good but VIII seems to be running out of ideas. Big empire is in charge, small ragtag group of rebels are trying to resist it, they will continue to resist it in episode IX, and X, and probably on and on as nauseum. Maybe now that the Death Star and Death Planet have been destroyed, Episode IX will feature a Death Universe. How is Star Wars anything other than a cookie cutter Marvel or DC superhero franchise now?

When Kylo Ren started telling Rey that they need to forget about the Jedi v Dark side/good vs bad boxes of the past and unite it seemed like something interesting might actually be about to happen. But then Rey immediately rejected him flat because apparently exploring the way that reality is more grey than black and white is too interesting and thoughtful for Star Wars. Boring.

I didn t dislike at all episode VIII, i liked it more than VII actually.
I think that there were a lot of plot twists that did surprise me a lot.
-Snoke getting killed that early without anything about his back story revealed...
-Rei's attraction for the dark side and kylo's attraction for the bright side that are pretty ambiguous throughout the movie
-Rei really being a random chick. No supreme skywalker or kenobi or whatever lineage. A true plot twist.
-Mark Hamill turns out to be pretty awesome even though i hadn t seen him in 30 years.

What did you expect? Of course it's always going to be about a resistance and an evil empire.
How could rei and kylo end up in an aliance? Where would you go from there? They get married, with children, no jedi/sith/force teaching at home, and a lot of administrative paper filling to run the galaxy. Creating gender pronouns for every specie, and over 38 toilet genders for every sex encountered in the galaxy. Tax reforms, paying the credits for all the death star expenses (those were at least 1000 years credits). Maybe they should just declare bankrupt from there dude. Even if they changed the brand from empire to first order, the mother company is still the same.
Then maybe they would both have a fight regarding the conditions of bank A vs bank B.

I think you ve got something mrswdk!

I get that it would be difficult to be make a decent film with the two main characters on the same side*, but the idea got brought up and then totally dismissed within the space of about 5 seconds.

As for your bullets, I actually thought Snokes being killed like that was a negative. Turns out the most powerful person in the Empire is actually just another 2D bad guy who pops up, says some nasty things and then gets killed. Yet another point in the film where the writers decided they couldn’t be bothered to add any real thoughtfulness among the explosions.

*although there would still be Fin, Leia, that ginger Empire Guy, Luke Skywalker etc. who might all have been unimpressed with a Kylo-Rey alliance

[2dimes]

Patches brings the heat.

Where to start? I'm bound to get lost here.

If purple hair rammed the Snoke mobile earlier, where should the rebels use light speed to go? The base there was probably the best plan. I think the move was a decent way to defeat the firepower once they started shooting up the transports. I can accept it just came to her at the moment before she did it.

Could that DJ guy have found out about the plans to bail to the abandoned base, by intercepting some form of communications while he was enjoying his hobbie of being a lee7haxxor?

I presume the reason Leia survived her trip to freezing space was something to do with her untapped family abilities to use the force. Mediclorians? Starlord did the same sort of thing in Gaurdians of the Galaxy, later explained by his dad's genes. I don't like it but, meh, let the writers make up some silly things, it's their job.

I kind of think crazy Yoda is just how he acts on occasion, in order to change the mood when he wants to get Luke's attention. He breaks it out when Luke is refusing to slow down to listen. "Oh, you're going to light up the tree to ruin the books? Go ahead." "Oh, you are chickening out? Watch me light it up with lightning." "I'll out crazy you all day, every day!" Now he has your attention. I wonder if Yoda had more to do with moving the books to the Millennium Falcon than was shown. Then again I totally missed Rey doing that as a few here wrote.

[patches70]

Ok, your explanations are a bit far fetched, but ok.
Though the DJ explanation doesn't hold water at all. Intercepted communications? So the rebels who are trying to keep the transports secret use some radio communications that are picked up by DJ that could have also just as easily been picked up by the First Order ships? I don't think so. When Poe, Fin and Rose headed to the casino planet they had no idea about the transport plan. None, zero, nada. The movie made the specific point that Poe especially was left out of the loop. Fin and Rose didn't know about it either.
DJ was with them from then on. The transports were hidden from any scans, so DJ couldn't have picked up the transports leaving the cruiser. He couldn't have picked up on communications either because operational security would ensure that there weren't any communications, besides he was running around Snoke's ship with Rose and Fin. If he could have picked up transmissions from the transports then the First Order would have also picked up those transmissions. Bottom line, there is no possible way DJ could have known. It's a complete plot hole.

A writer's job isn't to make up silly things unless they are writing a silly movie. Plot holes are a writer's bane, they tend to go to great lengths to eliminate plot holes. Not always successfully, though. Like in this case. My bad though for bringing it to attention. One doesn't think about it until it's brought up and then one is "Well shit, that's right, how the f*ck did DJ know about the transport plan?" and it bugs you after that. My apologies to any who are adversely affected by the revelation.

A mess of a movie, but I've seen worse I guess. Let's hope the next movie makes more sense and is better.

[betiko]

Ok, this particular movie was a mess. Visually it was great. The acting was decent for the most part (except for Leia and the Blue haired lady, they were horrible). The dialog was a bit Star Warsy, but I suppose that's to be expected.
But the plot holes.
You might not have noticed, or thought about as you were watching, but the scene when DJ (Banderas) betrays Fin and Rose and gets paid by the First Order and gets to leave. The information he gave the First Order was that the rebels were escaping via transports to the nearby planet. How did he know that? No one knew about that, not Fin, not Rose, not Poe. In fact, Poe was deliberately left out of the loop. So how the f*ck did DJ find out about it?

The part where the Blue Haired admiral flew the cruiser into Snope's ship. That was a visually great scene, absolutely. The rebels knew they were being tracked. They knew that the tracking device was on Snope's ship. Seems like it would have been tactically a good idea to do that particular move a bit earlier before all their ships got destroyed. Lose the one ship, the rest get away. They wait until half their transports are blown up. Heck, one of the other ships, just before they ran out of fuel could have been used to do the exact same thing. Use the last bit of fuel to ram Snoke's ship. They were light speed capable as well.

Rey apparently can use the force to teleport. She was on Snoke's demolished ship and then she's on the Falcon. How'd that happen? Bet ya didn't notice that little diddy, but now it's gonna bug ya. Maybe a deleted scene from the director's cut will sort that out.

Then there was the cringe inducing scene with Leia, the incredulity of it. That was just terrible and stupid. Nuff said about that debacle of a scene.

And apparently now, force ghosts can call down lightening from the sky. It's canon now, but it's still a facepalm of a moment and nearly as groan worthy as Leia's scene.
Also, why the hell was Yoda acting like crazy Yoda? If we remember back to the very first time we ever meet Yoda, way back in Empire Strikes Back, when Luke first meets Yoda, Yoda is a crazy little gremlin getting into all of Luke's stuff. Just acting like a crazy cat lady until he finally reveals himself to Luke as THE Jedi Master that Luke had come looking for. Yoda didn't act all crazy after at. But in Last Jedi force ghost Yoda is a lot like crazy Yoda from Empire. Why? Who's he trying to fool?

The most interesting character to me is Kylo. He seemed kind of whiny in the first film, but I'm getting to understand him a little better now. He's now actually a bad ass villain now. It's great.
The character of DJ embodies the what Kylo is finally realizing. DJ's character, played by Banderas, the "DJ" stands for "Don't Join". He wears a thing a ma bod that says, literally, "Don't Join". That's the essence of what Kylo's been going through. From a young age, due to his heritage, he's been bottled up into joining the Jedi. He's had it drilled into his head that he's supposed to do this, fight for that, struggle against them. He finally realizes that he's always just been a pawn and has decided that he's going to just tear all that down and make his own destiny. Or at least that's what he thinks he's doing, or hoping to do.

His character is also symbolic of how JJ Abrams is approaching Star Wars now that he's taken the helm of the franchise. He is wiping the slate clean to start anew. Sweep away the past and go into a new future. Whether or not that is going to work, I guess we'll see.

I can see what this director from the Last Jedi was trying to do, what he was going for, but it just didn't quite work. Abrams himself will be directing the next movie, so hopefully it'll be better.
But I like the characters of Kylo and Rey at least. The rest are pretty "meh".

A tiny point you might not have noticed, this was the first Star Wars movie in the history of the franchise where during the film no two light sabers actually crossed. There were no light saber duels. Not a one, a fist in all of Star Wars history. People complained that the Force Awakens was too much like a New Hope, so for this movie they threw out everything anyone would have expected in a Star Wars movie. Snoke gets offed with nary a whiff of who or what he really was. Luke Skywalker has done a complete 180 character arc acting like he'd never been like before, a true cynic. Skywalker was a lot of things but he was never a cynic.

Well, Last Jedi was a mess of a movie, but it was still better than the prequels. So it's not a total bust.

Gosh... DJ is played by Benicio del Toro, not Banderas. They don't look anything like each other. Just funny how you name drop it twice being so wrong... one is mexican the other is spanish... from Malaga, where I live. If anything, Del Toro is as close as you can get from Brad Pitt. I remember watching Snatch and thinking that Benicio del Toro was Brad Pitt who had died his hair... then the real Brad Pitt showed up as a gypo and that was a good mind f*ck.

[betiko]

Episode VII was good but VIII seems to be running out of ideas. Big empire is in charge, small ragtag group of rebels are trying to resist it, they will continue to resist it in episode IX, and X, and probably on and on as nauseum. Maybe now that the Death Star and Death Planet have been destroyed, Episode IX will feature a Death Universe. How is Star Wars anything other than a cookie cutter Marvel or DC superhero franchise now?

When Kylo Ren started telling Rey that they need to forget about the Jedi v Dark side/good vs bad boxes of the past and unite it seemed like something interesting might actually be about to happen. But then Rey immediately rejected him flat because apparently exploring the way that reality is more grey than black and white is too interesting and thoughtful for Star Wars. Boring.

I didn t dislike at all episode VIII, i liked it more than VII actually.
I think that there were a lot of plot twists that did surprise me a lot.
-Snoke getting killed that early without anything about his back story revealed...
-Rei's attraction for the dark side and kylo's attraction for the bright side that are pretty ambiguous throughout the movie
-Rei really being a random chick. No supreme skywalker or kenobi or whatever lineage. A true plot twist.
-Mark Hamill turns out to be pretty awesome even though i hadn t seen him in 30 years.

What did you expect? Of course it's always going to be about a resistance and an evil empire.
How could rei and kylo end up in an aliance? Where would you go from there? They get married, with children, no jedi/sith/force teaching at home, and a lot of administrative paper filling to run the galaxy. Creating gender pronouns for every specie, and over 38 toilet genders for every sex encountered in the galaxy. Tax reforms, paying the credits for all the death star expenses (those were at least 1000 years credits). Maybe they should just declare bankrupt from there dude. Even if they changed the brand from empire to first order, the mother company is still the same.
Then maybe they would both have a fight regarding the conditions of bank A vs bank B.

I think you ve got something mrswdk!

I get that it would be difficult to be make a decent film with the two main characters on the same side*, but the idea got brought up and then totally dismissed within the space of about 5 seconds.

As for your bullets, I actually thought Snokes being killed like that was a negative. Turns out the most powerful person in the Empire is actually just another 2D bad guy who pops up, says some nasty things and then gets killed. Yet another point in the film where the writers decided they couldn’t be bothered to add any real thoughtfulness among the explosions.

*although there would still be Fin, Leia, that ginger Empire Guy, Luke Skywalker etc. who might all have been unimpressed with a Kylo-Rey alliance

Actually, after thinking about it I think Snoke is not dead. Snoke is still the puppet master.
He knows the drill... sith lords get eventually killed by their aprentice. He has been manipulating him all along. He masters the force at least like luke. It was probably just a projection of the forçe sitting on that throne. I call bullshit on his death.
He knew that kylo was starting to feel a bit of curiosity for the bright side... making kylo kill him, embrace his hate and anger against him was the best way to make him flip full dark side.
I think kylo doesn t have the shoulders to become a supervillain and there will be a sort of redemption in episode 9.
Snoke needs to be still around.
Remember how he attacked ginger face through his hollogram, how he connected kylo and rei... no way he didn t see it comming with kylo. 100% part of the masterplan.

[patches70]

Gosh... DJ is played by Benicio del Toro, not Banderas. They don't look anything like each other. Just funny how you name drop it twice being so wrong... one is mexican the other is spanish... from Malaga, where I live. If anything, Del Toro is as close as you can get from Brad Pitt. I remember watching Snatch and thinking that Benicio del Toro was Brad Pitt who had died his hair... then the real Brad Pitt showed up as a gypo and that was a good mind f*ck.

You might not have it where you are from, but in the US there is a commercial with Benicio del Toro. It's a beer commercial I think. Toro talks about he's world famous and what not. Some tourists notice him and get all excited and want to take a picture of him, which Toro graciously allows. As the tourists are taking the picture they shout how great it is that they are getting a picture with Antonio Banderas. Toro get a dejected look on his face.

I will continue to call Toro, Banderas because that's the joke.

At least you picked up on it but you seem to be unaware of the joke.

[2dimes]

Patches you might be over thinking the franchise, it is a series of kids movies with wookies and really great laser weapon effects. Probably why I am a fan of it, other than Jar Jar and emo Aniken. I can stomach the ewoks and porgs.

I don't know that DJ knowing was that huge a plot hole. I agree with you it was most likely a mistake they were just too busy to think through.

He was apart from them long enough to negotiate his deal, plus the concept that he could gain access to the ship is based on the idea that the only one Maz thought could break their codes was another guy. Yet he does it for them. Obviously the premis is he is thebestorz at the computers and cracking secure communication systems.

You have a point about radio silence during the egress but, we are talking about movies where it's better to put oxygen masks on the pilot's helmets than proper pressure suits. It's not going for 100% accuracy.

I wouldn't have a problem if they explained it my way, via communication between the rebel ships, which they did not use Navajo wind talkers for. Then again I'll be fine if they just carry on overlooking it.

Lasers!!

[strike wolf]

Ok, this particular movie was a mess. Visually it was great. The acting was decent for the most part (except for Leia and the Blue haired lady, they were horrible). The dialog was a bit Star Warsy, but I suppose that's to be expected.
But the plot holes.
You might not have noticed, or thought about as you were watching, but the scene when DJ (Banderas) betrays Fin and Rose and gets paid by the First Order and gets to leave. The information he gave the First Order was that the rebels were escaping via transports to the nearby planet. How did he know that? No one knew about that, not Fin, not Rose, not Poe. In fact, Poe was deliberately left out of the loop. So how the f*ck did DJ find out about it?

Pay more attention and maybe you'll find fewer plot holes. Poe did know at that point and contacted Fin what that plan was (which DJ overheard).

The part where the Blue Haired admiral flew the cruiser into Snope's ship. That was a visually great scene, absolutely. The rebels knew they were being tracked. They knew that the tracking device was on Snoke's ship. Seems like it would have been tactically a good idea to do that particular move a bit earlier before all their ships got destroyed. Lose the one ship, the rest get away. They wait until half their transports are blown up. Heck, one of the other ships, just before they ran out of fuel could have been used to do the exact same thing. Use the last bit of fuel to ram Snoke's ship. They were light speed capable as well.

It might have been a smart move but this isn't really a plot hole. It was clear that this was a last moment desperation decision, not an intentional plan to let the stuff you said happen happen first. You can say that they should have thought of it but let's be real here. Movies are better when the characters have flaws. Where they don't think of every solution with hindsight power like you're using.

Rey apparently can use the force to teleport. She was on Snoke's demolished ship and then she's on the Falcon. How'd that happen? Bet ya didn't notice that little diddy, but now it's gonna bug ya. Maybe a deleted scene from the director's cut will sort that out.

It's really not that difficult to believe that the Falcon came back or she found a transport herself to get back to it. I mean Ren left the ship after she did and found his way out.

Then there was the cringe inducing scene with Leia, the incredulity of it. That was just terrible and stupid. Nuff said about that debacle of a scene.

Agreed.

And apparently now, force ghosts can call down lightening from the sky. It's canon now, but it's still a facepalm of a moment and nearly as groan worthy as Leia's scene.
Also, why the hell was Yoda acting like crazy Yoda? If we remember back to the very first time we ever meet Yoda, way back in Empire Strikes Back, when Luke first meets Yoda, Yoda is a crazy little gremlin getting into all of Luke's stuff. Just acting like a crazy cat lady until he finally reveals himself to Luke as THE Jedi Master that Luke had come looking for. Yoda didn't act all crazy after at. But in Last Jedi force ghost Yoda is a lot like crazy Yoda from Empire. Why? Who's he trying to fool?

Lightning scene with Yoda didn't bug me. Yoda always acted kinda crazy. You just must be ignoring it because you knew he was secretly more wise than Luke could realize.

qhe most interesting character to me is Kylo. He seemed kind of whiny in the first film, but I'm getting to understand him a little better now. He's now actually a bad ass villain now. It's great.

Agreed. I liked that the whininess was presented more as a character flaw in this one.

The character of DJ embodies the what Kylo is finally realizing. DJ's character, played by Banderas, the "DJ" stands for "Don't Join". He wears a thing a ma bod that says, literally, "Don't Join". That's the essence of what Kylo's been going through. From a young age, due to his heritage, he's been bottled up into joining the Jedi. He's had it drilled into his head that he's supposed to do this, fight for that, struggle against them. He finally realizes that he's always just been a pawn and has decided that he's going to just tear all that down and make his own destiny. Or at least that's what he thinks he's doing, or hoping to do.

Interesting analysis.

His character is also symbolic of how JJ Abrams is approaching Star Wars now that he's taken the helm of the franchise. He is wiping the slate clean to start anew. Sweep away the past and go into a new future. Whether or not that is going to work, I guess we'll see.

I can see what this director from the Last Jedi was trying to do, what he was going for, but it just didn't quite work. Abrams himself will be directing the next movie, so hopefully it'll be better.
But I like the characters of Kylo and Rey at least. The rest are pretty "meh".

A tiny point you might not have noticed, this was the first Star Wars movie in the history of the franchise where during the film no two light sabers actually crossed. There were no light saber duels. Not a one, a fist in all of Star Wars history. People complained that the Force Awakens was too much like a New Hope, so for this movie they threw out everything anyone would have expected in a Star Wars movie. Snoke gets offed with nary a whiff of who or what he really was. Luke Skywalker has done a complete 180 character arc acting like he'd never been like before, a true cynic. Skywalker was a lot of things but he was never a cynic.

Well, Last Jedi was a mess of a movie, but it was still better than the prequels. So it's not a total bust.

Second movie without a lightsaber duel. Rogue One only had one guy with a lightsaber. Also I'm pretty sure that all of those people Ren and Rey killed after offing Snoke were Luke's former students with lightsaber like weapons.

[betiko]

Gosh... DJ is played by Benicio del Toro, not Banderas. They don't look anything like each other. Just funny how you name drop it twice being so wrong... one is mexican the other is spanish... from Malaga, where I live. If anything, Del Toro is as close as you can get from Brad Pitt. I remember watching Snatch and thinking that Benicio del Toro was Brad Pitt who had died his hair... then the real Brad Pitt showed up as a gypo and that was a good mind f*ck.

You might not have it where you are from, but in the US there is a commercial with Benicio del Toro. It's a beer commercial I think. Toro talks about he's world famous and what not. Some tourists notice him and get all excited and want to take a picture of him, which Toro graciously allows. As the tourists are taking the picture they shout how great it is that they are getting a picture with Antonio Banderas. Toro get a dejected look on his face.

I will continue to call Toro, Banderas because that's the joke.

At least you picked up on it but you seem to be unaware of the joke.

Yup, i m clearly unaware of ads going on in other countries, you got me. Would you agree that he is a pitt clone though?

[DoomYoshi]

I'm fine with them "Plowing forward without mentioning Snoke again."

I missed Rey taking the Jedi texts.

I thought it was clear Luke threatened to burn them in the storage tree. Then he had a change of heart. Suddenly Yoda caused lightning to strike the tree burning it, with all the books contained within.

That settled it and Luke was the last Jedi because it ended there with the fire... but Yoda does then explain Rey will be acquire all the knowledge, adding,"Won't it be the same even if it won't be named the same?"

In english, you can say "the last jedi" jedi being plural.
I ve had a lot of arguments with spanish friends about this. In french and spanish, "the return of the jedi" is singular. Who was returning? Anakin or Luke? Was it a bad translation and was it actually jedi plural?
"The last jedi" is translated into plural in french. I saw it yesterday in a french theater in plural when the text started at the begining (the actual title of the movie is left in english). I will have to check if it s plural in spain too.

I never realized it was a proper noun, I always thought Jedi was a proper adjective (as in "Jedi knight") and the Star Wars universe had its own spastic grammar.

[DirtyDishSoap]

Ok, this particular movie was a mess. Visually it was great. The acting was decent for the most part (except for Leia and the Blue haired lady, they were horrible). The dialog was a bit Star Warsy, but I suppose that's to be expected.
But the plot holes.

Actually wanted to quote this because I agree with Patches.

The movie was a mess, but we need to look at it from another angle. This movie is clearly meant for a different target audience. A casual one. One where people new to Star Wars can get into it. Although if they were to dive into it, they'd probably realize that it's now a mess and makes no sense in terms of lore.
There are a number of plot holes that could have easily been solved, but it was mishandled so, so badly. It shouldn't take a God damn comic book to explain these characters origins, or a lapse in the timeline. The original trilogy gets a pass because it introduced us to this universe, and now that we've established exactly what was happening in that timeline, we get this huge missed chunk of time that no one can keep up, and it's all for the sake of catering to a more casual audience.

The part where the Blue Haired admiral flew the cruiser into Snope's ship. That was a visually great scene, absolutely. The rebels knew they were being tracked. They knew that the tracking device was on Snope's ship. Seems like it would have been tactically a good idea to do that particular move a bit earlier before all their ships got destroyed. Lose the one ship, the rest get away. They wait until half their transports are blown up. Heck, one of the other ships, just before they ran out of fuel could have been used to do the exact same thing. Use the last bit of fuel to ram Snoke's ship. They were light speed capable as well.

Rey apparently can use the force to teleport. She was on Snoke's demolished ship and then she's on the Falcon. How'd that happen? Bet ya didn't notice that little diddy, but now it's gonna bug ya. Maybe a deleted scene from the director's cut will sort that out.

Agreed, terribly written. Everyone on that ship gets obliterated...except for Rey and Kylo. And then the weird jump into the Falcon.
This movie had a "Go-Go-Go, Action-Action-Action!" pace, where the plot was just secondary.

Then there was the cringe inducing scene with Leia, the incredulity of it. That was just terrible and stupid. Nuff said about that debacle of a scene.

Cary Fisher as Mary Poppins 2017.
Agreed, another meme.

And apparently now, force ghosts can call down lightening from the sky. It's canon now, but it's still a facepalm of a moment and nearly as groan worthy as Leia's scene.
Also, why the hell was Yoda acting like crazy Yoda? If we remember back to the very first time we ever meet Yoda, way back in Empire Strikes Back, when Luke first meets Yoda, Yoda is a crazy little gremlin getting into all of Luke's stuff. Just acting like a crazy cat lady until he finally reveals himself to Luke as THE Jedi Master that Luke had come looking for. Yoda didn't act all crazy after at. But in Last Jedi force ghost Yoda is a lot like crazy Yoda from Empire. Why? Who's he trying to fool?

I kind of like the direction of where this came from. A force ghost capable of actually using the force, instead of becoming this hovering voice that is guidance to whomever. "If you strike me down, I will become more powerful than you could ever imagine". I feel like it should have rang more true after Kenobi's death. I can see how it causes a problem though, because where are these force ghosts to fight the New Order? Why can't they interact more, etc. As for Yoda being crazy...To me, he's always been crazy. I don't think they broke Yoda's character, Luke on the other hand....

Luke Skywalker has done a complete 180 character arc acting like he'd never been like before, a true cynic. Skywalker was a lot of things but he was never a cynic.

Well, Last Jedi was a mess of a movie, but it was still better than the prequels. So it's not a total bust.

Jesus, this is spot on. Character assassination to the letter.

Here's a character whom never gave up on his father. He believed that he can turn him against hopeless odds. A guy with a past that murdered children, Jedi, Civilians, Rebels on untold numbers. And his son finally managed to bring him back to the light at a crucial moment.
Yet, here, it's explained that his nephew, Ben Solo, that Luke see's a darkness growing in him.
So what does he do? He tries to murder him in his sleep. What...In...The...Actual...f*ck. Mark Hamill, why in the world would you allow this to happen to a character that was written so well, just to be butchered? Imagine if Mark Hamill was forced to voice The Joker, but The Joker is now Batman's sidekick and boy wonder. He tells no jokes, is sane, and fights crime. You'd effectively assassinate that character.
This was one of the biggest fouls this movie committed. Luke did deserve better treatment. I understand Rey is suppose to be the heroine of the story, but Jesus, you just don't toss one of the most iconic characters of franchise like a cheap tampon into the garbage and expect everything to be hunky dory.

This movie was a mess. It's a mess for the Star War fans that have followed the franchise and it's now non-canon 40+ year content.
But for the casual audience. A+

[strike wolf]

1. But the expanded universe of books and comics has always been a star wars tradition.

2. Eh. The ship was crippled but there seemed to be plenty of initial survivors. On top of Ren, Rey, Hugsley, Fin and Rose, various stormtroopers apparently made it out.

3. I can agree with this. There needed to be a better build up to the incident between Kylo and Luke that led to that scene.

4. Hey. It made midichlorians non-canon. That's a huge plus for the movie.

[2dimes]

Mark Hamill, why in the world would you allow this to happen to a character that was written so well, just to be butchered?

[DirtyDishSoap]

1. But the expanded universe of books and comics has always been a star wars tradition.

And at the time, whatever Lucas approved was canon. When Disney bought out Lucas, they effectively made everything non-canon except for the prequels, original trilogy, the animated clone wars series, and General Thrawn.

Everything else, ranging from Darth Bane whom established the Rule of Two to Darth Krayt who destroyed it, are now no longer canon.
KOTOR, KOTOR II and any subsequent games born from Star Wars that establishes any type of lore is no longer canon.
I know there are some silly content that came out before Disney, but there was so much more good than the bad, it hurts my nut sack.

2. Eh. The ship was crippled but there seemed to be plenty of initial survivors. On top of Ren, Rey, Hugsley, Fin and Rose, various stormtroopers apparently made it out.

The ship was literally torn in half. Obliterated in the center, nothing left. Rey and Kylo are practically at the center of the impact. And they survive. Unscathed. To me, it didn't make much sense. On top of that, I re-watched Force Awakens and there's a scene that nearly mimics the duel between Kylo and Ren, and their clash is cut short when the planet cracks in half. Same thing with the ship. Feels pretty cheap to use the same gimmick.

4. Hey. It made midichlorians non-canon. That's a huge plus for the movie.

Sadly, no, it is still canon. If the prequels are still canon, then that makes midichlorians canon. Which makes Darth Plagueis canon, which makes Rey an anomaly like Anakin, except Anakin was born from Darth Plagueis and Sidious tampering with the force. Which makes me wonder where Rey exactly comes from.
Midichlorians being canon is just a way of appeasing an outlook that everything can be explained through science.

[jusplay4fun]

Stars Wars is meant to be FUN and an adventure and a good action movie. I think it delivers on ALL that and more. And yes, NOT all the small points connect, but I still enjoy them for what there are meant to be. The latest installment is fun and magical, IMO.

Here is at least one favorable review

JP4Fun

From: https://www.empireonline.com/movies/star-wars-last-jedi/review/

The Resistance, led by General Leia (Fisher), are on the run. As the First Order close in, their only hope is if Rey (Ridley) can tempt Jedi Master Luke Skywalker (Hamill) back to the fight.

“This is not going to go the way you think!” Luke Skywalker warns Rey on the Jedi Temple island of Ahch-To. It sounds like a quote designed for a trailer but now feels like the opening line from Rian Johnson’s pitch. The Last Jedi delivers everything you want from a Star Wars movie — fierce lightsaber action, space dogfights, exotic creatures, people off British telly as bad guys (hello, Ade Edmondson as a First Order Officer) — but layers it with story twists, character arcs and an emotional wallop that you could never have predicted. It doesn’t all work, but it’s a long time since a huge franchise movie has delivered the thrills and feels in such surprising ways.