To bomb or not to bomb, that is the question

[Symmetry]

It's been 64 years since the Korean War ended with a temporary truce, and neither side has made a good-faith effort at moving towards a permanent peace treaty. That is at the heart of the matter. The North Koreans threaten America because America defends South Korea, and South Korea needs defending because it is still at war with the North. Create a permanent peace treaty, the situation pretty much resolves itself. The American troops can go home, the American taxpayer saves a lot of money, North Korea calms down and its nukes go on the back burner for the next century until eventually they are obsolete and get dismantled.

Does that not seem a little cute to you? The Korean War wasn't simply a North vs South conflict. It's a relic of the Cold War. The ceasefire relies on the powers behind the antagonists sharing an equal role. China and North Korea have resorted to nuclear proliferation. The US has used its allies as proxies.

A true end to the war will require much more than any party is currently willing to give, except perhaps, South Korea.

[Dukasaur]

It's been 64 years since the Korean War ended with a temporary truce, and neither side has made a good-faith effort at moving towards a permanent peace treaty. That is at the heart of the matter. The North Koreans threaten America because America defends South Korea, and South Korea needs defending because it is still at war with the North. Create a permanent peace treaty, the situation pretty much resolves itself. The American troops can go home, the American taxpayer saves a lot of money, North Korea calms down and its nukes go on the back burner for the next century until eventually they are obsolete and get dismantled.

Does that not seem a little cute to you? The Korean War wasn't simply a North vs South conflict. It's a relic of the Cold War. The ceasefire relies on the powers behind the antagonists sharing an equal role. China and North Korea have resorted to nuclear proliferation. The US has used its allies as proxies.

A true end to the war will require much more than any party is currently willing to give, except perhaps, South Korea.

The partition of Germany was created in pretty much the same way as the partition of Korea, and was likewise a centerpiece of the Cold War. It was resolved. This can be too.

[mrswdk]

Yes, it can be resolved by America taking its troops out of South Korea and toning down its rhetoric. Imagine it was the other way round: South Korea defending itself, with North Korea full of Chinese troops who regularly conduct large military exercises in order to intimidate the South. The hawks on this forum would be the first to screech that the solution to tensions was for China to withdraw its troops.

Yet when it's American troops and American threats, apparently that's just fair enough.

[Dukasaur]

Yes, it can be resolved by America taking its troops out of South Korea and toning down its rhetoric. Imagine it was the other way round: South Korea defending itself, with North Korea full of Chinese troops who regularly conduct large military exercises in order to intimidate the South. The hawks on this forum would be the first to screech that the solution to tensions was for China to withdraw its troops.

Yet when it's American troops and American threats, apparently that's just fair enough.

North Korea doesn't need to be full of Chinese troops. It's only 200 km from the Chinese border to the DMZ. Chinese troops in China could be there literally in a few hours. So the situation you describe essentially exists.

[GoranZ]

Yes, it can be resolved by America taking its troops out of South Korea and toning down its rhetoric. Imagine it was the other way round: South Korea defending itself, with North Korea full of Chinese troops who regularly conduct large military exercises in order to intimidate the South. The hawks on this forum would be the first to screech that the solution to tensions was for China to withdraw its troops.

Yet when it's American troops and American threats, apparently that's just fair enough.

North Korea doesn't need to be full of Chinese troops. It's only 200 km from the Chinese border to the DMZ. Chinese troops in China could be there literally in a few hours. So the situation you describe essentially exists.

When was last time China threatened South Korea? US does that on hourly basis. There is huge difference.

P.S. See how dumb you are?

[Dukasaur]

Yes, it can be resolved by America taking its troops out of South Korea and toning down its rhetoric. Imagine it was the other way round: South Korea defending itself, with North Korea full of Chinese troops who regularly conduct large military exercises in order to intimidate the South. The hawks on this forum would be the first to screech that the solution to tensions was for China to withdraw its troops.

Yet when it's American troops and American threats, apparently that's just fair enough.

North Korea doesn't need to be full of Chinese troops. It's only 200 km from the Chinese border to the DMZ. Chinese troops in China could be there literally in a few hours. So the situation you describe essentially exists.

When was last time China threatened South Korea? US does that on hourly basis. There is huge difference.

P.S. See how dumb you are?

Yeah, I'm dumb for suggesting that after 64 years of a temporary truce, it's time to sit down and negotiate a peace treaty.

Whereas you supergenius suggest that in the absence of a permanent peace treaty, we should just trust that North Korea's 6.4 million troops, 950 aircraft, and 11,000 armoured vehicles will continue to just sit idle. I know if my neighbour had 11,000 armoured vehicles, I'd make sure I had an peace agreement in place. But that's probably just because I'm a dummy.

[mrswdk]

Well a diplomatic solution is exactly what North Korea's guarantors (China and Russia) want, but unfortunately South Korea's guarantor (USA) is making itself busy tweeting about fire and fury and proclaiming that the North is 'begging for war'.

But of course, America's not the villain.

[Dukasaur]

Well a diplomatic solution is exactly what North Korea's guarantors (China and Russia) want, but unfortunately South Korea's guarantor (USA) is making itself busy tweeting about fire and fury and proclaiming that the North is 'begging for war'.

But of course, America's not the villain.

I'm not playing this game. All powers want to increase their power, and are willing to use lesser nations as pawns. America is neither more nor less villainous than Russia and China in this regard.

What I'm saying is that the costs of continuing this particular game are outweighing the benefits, for all the major powers. It's time for a negotiated settlement.

[mrswdk]

Well until USG has a change of personality and starts to see Korea in the same way as you, me and everyone else, we unfortunately have to just accept being stuck at one minute to midnight for the foreseeable future.

[armati]

The americans are toast, one way or another

Bye Bye Petro-dollar: $400 B China-Russia Gas Deal is Official ...
www.silverdoctors.com › Gold › Gold News
May 21, 2014 - Bye Bye Petro-dollar: $400 B China-Russia Gas Deal is Official! ... total value of the contract is $400 billion, Gazprom CEO Aleksey Miller said.

Goodbye Petrodollar: Russia Accepts Yuan, Is Now China's Biggest ...
russia-insider.com/en/node/12611
Feb 3, 2016 - Goodbye Petrodollar: Russia Accepts Yuan, Is Now China's Biggest Oil .... 'taxation is the price of civilization" as some people said -- perhaps ...

China Makes Move To End The Dollar! Petro Dollar Collapse 2017 ...
Video for china says bye to petrodollar▶ 8:49
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nMkVndFB0o

Jun 5, 2017 - Uploaded by Silver Report Uncut
China Now Pressuring Saudi oil exports be sold in Yuan. ... a concerted effort to dethrone King Dollar as the ...

Russia And Iran Sign Oil-For-Goods Barter Deal; Escape Petrodollar ...
www.zerohedge.com/.../russia-and-iran-s ... etrodollar
May 28, 2017 - Russia, China, and everybody else but the little old USofA signed onto a new international .... And when they do, say bye bye to the Petrodollar.

Bye Petrodollar – Buy | Max Keiser
www.maxkeiser.com/tag/bye-petrodollar-buy/
Home · Home › Posts tagged Bye Petrodollar – Buy ... The White House has previously said that talks between Russia and Iran were a matter of “serious concern”. Currency ... Geopolitical Earthquake As China Russia Sign Historic Agreement.

Their pensions and states are already crumbling, even if trump put 1 trillion to infastructure that wont fix the pensions, baby boomers are just getting into full retirement mode, anyone depending on a pension is toast.

Whats the US going to look like in a few years?

Go east young man!

[armati]

Syrian War Report – September 8, 2017: US-led Coalition Rescues ISIS Commanders From Deir Ezzor?
Southfront u tube

Anyone following the news from Syria would know the americans have been supporting isis all along, arming training supplying, medical treatment from Israel.

Nothing new of course but its just another reason N Korea refuses to trust the states.
We hear on the news all the time how they want to fight isis, what a pile of BS.
How can a word they say be believed?

[Symmetry]

It's been 64 years since the Korean War ended with a temporary truce, and neither side has made a good-faith effort at moving towards a permanent peace treaty. That is at the heart of the matter. The North Koreans threaten America because America defends South Korea, and South Korea needs defending because it is still at war with the North. Create a permanent peace treaty, the situation pretty much resolves itself. The American troops can go home, the American taxpayer saves a lot of money, North Korea calms down and its nukes go on the back burner for the next century until eventually they are obsolete and get dismantled.

Does that not seem a little cute to you? The Korean War wasn't simply a North vs South conflict. It's a relic of the Cold War. The ceasefire relies on the powers behind the antagonists sharing an equal role. China and North Korea have resorted to nuclear proliferation. The US has used its allies as proxies.

A true end to the war will require much more than any party is currently willing to give, except perhaps, South Korea.

The partition of Germany was created in pretty much the same way as the partition of Korea, and was likewise a centerpiece of the Cold War. It was resolved. This can be too.

I get the comparison, but it's not quite the same either. East Germany wasn't a nuclear power. It was de facto part of the USSR, which was.

[Thorthoth]

It's been 64 years since the Korean War ended with a temporary truce, and neither side has made a good-faith effort at moving towards a permanent peace treaty. That is at the heart of the matter. The North Koreans threaten America because America defends South Korea, and South Korea needs defending because it is still at war with the North. Create a permanent peace treaty, the situation pretty much resolves itself. The American troops can go home, the American taxpayer saves a lot of money, North Korea calms down and its nukes go on the back burner for the next century until eventually they are obsolete and get dismantled.

Does that not seem a little cute to you? The Korean War wasn't simply a North vs South conflict. It's a relic of the Cold War. The ceasefire relies on the powers behind the antagonists sharing an equal role. China and North Korea have resorted to nuclear proliferation. The US has used its allies as proxies.

A true end to the war will require much more than any party is currently willing to give, except perhaps, South Korea.

The partition of Germany was created in pretty much the same way as the partition of Korea, and was likewise a centerpiece of the Cold War. It was resolved. This can be too.

I get the comparison, but it's not quite the same either. East Germany wasn't a nuclear power. It was de facto part of the USSR, which was.

That the Eastern Bloc fell w/o violence was truly remarkable. You can't count on that type of lucky break twice.

[GoranZ]

Yes, it can be resolved by America taking its troops out of South Korea and toning down its rhetoric. Imagine it was the other way round: South Korea defending itself, with North Korea full of Chinese troops who regularly conduct large military exercises in order to intimidate the South. The hawks on this forum would be the first to screech that the solution to tensions was for China to withdraw its troops.

Yet when it's American troops and American threats, apparently that's just fair enough.

North Korea doesn't need to be full of Chinese troops. It's only 200 km from the Chinese border to the DMZ. Chinese troops in China could be there literally in a few hours. So the situation you describe essentially exists.

When was last time China threatened South Korea? US does that on hourly basis. There is huge difference.

P.S. See how dumb you are?

Yeah, I'm dumb for suggesting that after 64 years of a temporary truce, it's time to sit down and negotiate a peace treaty.

Whereas you supergenius suggest that in the absence of a permanent peace treaty, we should just trust that North Korea's 6.4 million troops, 950 aircraft, and 11,000 armoured vehicles will continue to just sit idle. I know if my neighbour had 11,000 armoured vehicles, I'd make sure I had an peace agreement in place. But that's probably just because I'm a dummy.

South Korea has 3.8 million troops, and quite advanced weapons. Its not how many men you have but how you use them.
And you want to tell me that US 28,500 personnel will make a difference No they are in South Korea just to harass North Korea, China and Russia.
IDK why US and you are whining, when the only option North Korea has is to prepare for mutual destruction with US. And they are doing just that, their only option. And no matter what US will do by 2020 North Korea will have both missiles and nuclear bombs to target US mainland with ease.
Then negotiations you are proposing will be different, very different

[GoranZ]

Judging by how Chinese are acting, they are seriously supporting North Korea. Russians by default are not saying anything but its more then obvious what actions will they take considering their recent relations with the west.

China Warns Trump: "We Will Back North Korea If The US Strikes First"

Now if everything turns towards economic war, the world might see considerable GDP drop for everyone involved and new world economic crisis. The only difference with the previous one will be that Chinese engine will not be enough to get the world out of it like the last time.