And it's not just these troops, at various points in the parade you see even more soldiers in the background, in doorways, etc., and then the Mayor appears to have some type of elite Praetorian Guard near him, too. And then later, when the Lullaby League arrives, there are like twice as many troops that have seemingly materialized from nowhere.
So, we know that after the government of Oz collapsed, the Wicked Witch of the East seized control of Munchkinland and ran the place until Dorothy assassinated her, however, wouldn't the Munchkins have then retaliated against the Eastern Witch's collaborationist army as soon as she was dead? A lot of unanswered questions here.
Pack Rat wrote:if it quacks like a duck and walk like a duck, it's still fascism
OK, then when the Witch of the West arrives the Munchkin Army scatters and makes no attempt at a defensive stand.
Maybe it's used purely to put down internal disorder, like a gendarmerie type force? Or did legal rulership of Munchkinland pass to the Witch of the West after the death of the Witch of the East?
Pack Rat wrote:if it quacks like a duck and walk like a duck, it's still fascism
Interesting fact - Margaret Hamilton was badly burned during filming of that scene when the trap door that was supposed to drop her beneath the set failed to spring before the fireball was activated.
Pack Rat wrote:if it quacks like a duck and walk like a duck, it's still fascism
The munchkin army was composed of opportunists who never envisioned that one day they might have to fight. Basically, they signed up to get a salary, and the ability to look cool and impress the chicks by marching around in their cool duds. I'm sure they were paralyzed when the possibility of actual war suddenly materialized.
“Life is a shipwreck, but we must not forget to sing in the lifeboats.” ― Voltaire
Dukasaur wrote:The munchkin army was composed of opportunists who never envisioned that one day they might have to fight. Basically, they signed up to get a salary, and the ability to look cool and impress the chicks by marching around in their cool duds. I'm sure they were paralyzed when the possibility of actual war suddenly materialized.
That's a good point. Though I wonder who would have won if Munchkinland had actually declared war against the Witch of the West? Or against the Witch of the East? Or against Hillary Clinton?
Pack Rat wrote:if it quacks like a duck and walk like a duck, it's still fascism
I've checked the original book and learned some things:
1. After the Witch of the East is killed, the remnant government of Munchkinland sent a "swift messenger to the North" to alert Glinda.
2. Glinda tells Dorothy that she was never as powerful as the Witch of the East or she would have invaded Munchkinland and killed the Witch of the East herself.
3. Glinda tells Dorothy "the land of Oz has never been civilized." After the death of the Witch of the East there is no mention of a parade, instead, Dorothy dines at the home of Bok, the wealthiest man in Munchkinland.
4. One of the Munchkins tells Dorothy that if she traveled too far west she would encounter the Witch of the West who is a slaver. The Witch of the West, herself, actually never comes to Munchkinland which answers the question How did she find out the Witch of the East had died within mere minutes of it happening?
5. There is no mention of a Munchkin Army.
Pack Rat wrote:if it quacks like a duck and walk like a duck, it's still fascism
OK, it gets even more interesting. I skipped to the later part of the book and it says, in The Emerald City, "there were no horses or animals of any kind." But in the film there is the Horse of a Different Color.
It also makes no mention of a military force, except for the Guardian of the Gate who is sometimes referred to as a "soldier." But in the film we see an Emerald City Army mobilizing following the Witch of the West's "Surrender Dorothy" ultimatum to the city.
So why all the militarism in the film?
Then I checked the Wikipedia entry for the director, Victor Fleming ...
It was reported in James Curtis' book Spencer Tracy: A Biography[9] that Anne Revere once said Fleming was "violently pro-Nazi". Fleming had once mocked the UK at the outset of World War II by taking a bet as to how long the country could withstand an attack by Germany.
Pack Rat wrote:if it quacks like a duck and walk like a duck, it's still fascism
saxitoxin wrote:I've checked the original book and learned some things:
1. After the Witch of the East is killed, the remnant government of Munchkinland sent a "swift messenger to the North" to alert Glinda.
2. Glinda tells Dorothy that she was never as powerful as the Witch of the East or she would have invaded Munchkinland and killed the Witch of the East herself.
3. Glinda tells Dorothy "the land of Oz has never been civilized." After the death of the Witch of the East there is no mention of a parade, instead, Dorothy dines at the home of Bok, the wealthiest man in Munchkinland.
4. One of the Munchkins tells Dorothy that if she traveled too far west she would encounter the Witch of the West who is a slaver. The Witch of the West, herself, actually never comes to Munchkinland which answers the question How did she find out the Witch of the East had died within mere minutes of it happening?
5. There is no mention of a Munchkin Army.
I was under the (apparently mistaken) impression that the Wicked Witch of the East (are we allowed to use the term "Wicked"... I don't want to offend anyone) was a colonial power that had taken over Munchkin Land. Perhaps the Munchkin Army were like the Vichy French army.
saxitoxin wrote:I've checked the original book and learned some things:
1. After the Witch of the East is killed, the remnant government of Munchkinland sent a "swift messenger to the North" to alert Glinda.
2. Glinda tells Dorothy that she was never as powerful as the Witch of the East or she would have invaded Munchkinland and killed the Witch of the East herself.
3. Glinda tells Dorothy "the land of Oz has never been civilized." After the death of the Witch of the East there is no mention of a parade, instead, Dorothy dines at the home of Bok, the wealthiest man in Munchkinland.
4. One of the Munchkins tells Dorothy that if she traveled too far west she would encounter the Witch of the West who is a slaver. The Witch of the West, herself, actually never comes to Munchkinland which answers the question How did she find out the Witch of the East had died within mere minutes of it happening?
5. There is no mention of a Munchkin Army.
I was under the (apparently mistaken) impression that the Wicked Witch of the East (are we allowed to use the term "Wicked"... I don't want to offend anyone) was a colonial power that had taken over Munchkin Land. Perhaps the Munchkin Army were like the Vichy French army.
Great question. I was also under that impression, that the Witch of the East (let's not play the blame game and call her "Wicked"), was a colonial power who ruled Munckinland from afar.
However, it seems - on deeper research - that the Munchkins, prior to Dorothy's assassination of the WOE, may have played the same role as the Winkies prior the assassination of the Witch of the West. That maybe the Witch of the East was actually resident in Munchkinland and the Munckhin Army did her bidding like the Winkie Army did the bidding of the Witch of the West.
When the house fell on the Witch of the East, I had always assumed she was just passing through and terrorizing the locals as she tended to do from time to time. But, it seems, she may have just been at her actual home base as resident dictator. A further indicator of this can be seen when the Munchkin State Coach arrives to pick-up Dorothy at the end of this scene ...
The coach is clearly sized to fit a full-size person, not a Munchkin, so must have previously been used by the Witch of the East?
Pack Rat wrote:if it quacks like a duck and walk like a duck, it's still fascism
The Munchkin Army(TMA - which no Betsy is not also an acronym for too much anal, as there is no such thing) was planned along modern french organisational structures, sadly some of their training manuals had been cribbed from the Polish House Calvary.
saxitoxin wrote:I've checked the original book and learned some things:
1. After the Witch of the East is killed, the remnant government of Munchkinland sent a "swift messenger to the North" to alert Glinda.
2. Glinda tells Dorothy that she was never as powerful as the Witch of the East or she would have invaded Munchkinland and killed the Witch of the East herself.
3. Glinda tells Dorothy "the land of Oz has never been civilized." After the death of the Witch of the East there is no mention of a parade, instead, Dorothy dines at the home of Bok, the wealthiest man in Munchkinland.
4. One of the Munchkins tells Dorothy that if she traveled too far west she would encounter the Witch of the West who is a slaver. The Witch of the West, herself, actually never comes to Munchkinland which answers the question How did she find out the Witch of the East had died within mere minutes of it happening?
5. There is no mention of a Munchkin Army.
I was under the (apparently mistaken) impression that the Wicked Witch of the East (are we allowed to use the term "Wicked"... I don't want to offend anyone) was a colonial power that had taken over Munchkin Land. Perhaps the Munchkin Army were like the Vichy French army.
Great question. I was also under that impression, that the Witch of the East (let's not play the blame game and call her "Wicked"), was a colonial power who ruled Munckinland from afar.
However, it seems - on deeper research - that the Munchkins, prior to Dorothy's assassination of the WOE, may have played the same role as the Winkies prior the assassination of the Witch of the West. That maybe the Witch of the East was actually resident in Munchkinland and the Munckhin Army did her bidding like the Winkie Army did the bidding of the Witch of the West.
When the house fell on the Witch of the East, I had always assumed she was just passing through and terrorizing the locals as she tended to do from time to time. But, it seems, she may have just been at her actual home base as resident dictator. A further indicator of this can be seen when the Munchkin State Coach arrives to pick-up Dorothy at the end of this scene ...
The coach is clearly sized to fit a full-size person, not a Munchkin, so must have previously been used by the Witch of the East?
It begs the question, though - How were the Munchkins so prepared for the coming of Dorothy? Was the WOW secretly supplying counterrevolutionaries? I believe it took all of five minutes for the Munchkins to start a coreographed dance... they must have known.
saxitoxin wrote:I've checked the original book and learned some things:
1. After the Witch of the East is killed, the remnant government of Munchkinland sent a "swift messenger to the North" to alert Glinda.
2. Glinda tells Dorothy that she was never as powerful as the Witch of the East or she would have invaded Munchkinland and killed the Witch of the East herself.
3. Glinda tells Dorothy "the land of Oz has never been civilized." After the death of the Witch of the East there is no mention of a parade, instead, Dorothy dines at the home of Bok, the wealthiest man in Munchkinland.
4. One of the Munchkins tells Dorothy that if she traveled too far west she would encounter the Witch of the West who is a slaver. The Witch of the West, herself, actually never comes to Munchkinland which answers the question How did she find out the Witch of the East had died within mere minutes of it happening?
5. There is no mention of a Munchkin Army.
I was under the (apparently mistaken) impression that the Wicked Witch of the East (are we allowed to use the term "Wicked"... I don't want to offend anyone) was a colonial power that had taken over Munchkin Land. Perhaps the Munchkin Army were like the Vichy French army.
Great question. I was also under that impression, that the Witch of the East (let's not play the blame game and call her "Wicked"), was a colonial power who ruled Munckinland from afar.
However, it seems - on deeper research - that the Munchkins, prior to Dorothy's assassination of the WOE, may have played the same role as the Winkies prior the assassination of the Witch of the West. That maybe the Witch of the East was actually resident in Munchkinland and the Munckhin Army did her bidding like the Winkie Army did the bidding of the Witch of the West.
When the house fell on the Witch of the East, I had always assumed she was just passing through and terrorizing the locals as she tended to do from time to time. But, it seems, she may have just been at her actual home base as resident dictator. A further indicator of this can be seen when the Munchkin State Coach arrives to pick-up Dorothy at the end of this scene ...
The coach is clearly sized to fit a full-size person, not a Munchkin, so must have previously been used by the Witch of the East?
It begs the question, though - How were the Munchkins so prepared for the coming of Dorothy? Was the WOW secretly supplying counterrevolutionaries? I believe it took all of five minutes for the Munchkins to start a coreographed dance... they must have known.
Pack Rat wrote:if it quacks like a duck and walk like a duck, it's still fascism
saxitoxin wrote:I've checked the original book and learned some things:
1. After the Witch of the East is killed, the remnant government of Munchkinland sent a "swift messenger to the North" to alert Glinda.
2. Glinda tells Dorothy that she was never as powerful as the Witch of the East or she would have invaded Munchkinland and killed the Witch of the East herself.
3. Glinda tells Dorothy "the land of Oz has never been civilized." After the death of the Witch of the East there is no mention of a parade, instead, Dorothy dines at the home of Bok, the wealthiest man in Munchkinland.
4. One of the Munchkins tells Dorothy that if she traveled too far west she would encounter the Witch of the West who is a slaver. The Witch of the West, herself, actually never comes to Munchkinland which answers the question How did she find out the Witch of the East had died within mere minutes of it happening?
5. There is no mention of a Munchkin Army.
I was under the (apparently mistaken) impression that the Wicked Witch of the East (are we allowed to use the term "Wicked"... I don't want to offend anyone) was a colonial power that had taken over Munchkin Land. Perhaps the Munchkin Army were like the Vichy French army.
Great question. I was also under that impression, that the Witch of the East (let's not play the blame game and call her "Wicked"), was a colonial power who ruled Munckinland from afar.
However, it seems - on deeper research - that the Munchkins, prior to Dorothy's assassination of the WOE, may have played the same role as the Winkies prior the assassination of the Witch of the West. That maybe the Witch of the East was actually resident in Munchkinland and the Munckhin Army did her bidding like the Winkie Army did the bidding of the Witch of the West.
When the house fell on the Witch of the East, I had always assumed she was just passing through and terrorizing the locals as she tended to do from time to time. But, it seems, she may have just been at her actual home base as resident dictator. A further indicator of this can be seen when the Munchkin State Coach arrives to pick-up Dorothy at the end of this scene ...
The coach is clearly sized to fit a full-size person, not a Munchkin, so must have previously been used by the Witch of the East?
It begs the question, though - How were the Munchkins so prepared for the coming of Dorothy? Was the WOW secretly supplying counterrevolutionaries? I believe it took all of five minutes for the Munchkins to start a coreographed dance... they must have known.
You left out one important fact from the original Frank L. Baum novels: Munchkins are normal full-sized humans. The midgit Munchkins are just one of many cinematic errors that are now accepted by the ignorant as canon.
Just because they aren't tall doesn't mean they aren't normal humans, and just because they aren't tall doesn't mean they aren't "full size".
It's sad that people treat this kind of stuff as somehow being heretical just because they think that it should be some pretty tall white American playing every role they've ever read.
The movie is more of a classic than the books. Live with it.
the world is in greater peril from those who tolerate or encourage evil than from those who actually commit it- Albert Einstein
Symmetry wrote:Just because they aren't tall doesn't mean they aren't normal (1. Wrong.) humans, and just because they aren't tall doesn't mean they aren't "full size" (2. Wrong.)
It's sad (3. Wrong.) that people treat this kind of stuff as somehow being heretical just because they think that it should be some pretty tall white American playing every role they've ever read.
The movie is more of a classic than the books. (4. Wrong.) Live with it. (5. Wrong.)
Symmetry wrote:Just because they aren't tall doesn't mean they aren't normal (1. Wrong.) humans, and just because they aren't tall doesn't mean they aren't "full size" (2. Wrong.)
It's sad (3. Wrong.) that people treat this kind of stuff as somehow being heretical just because they think that it should be some pretty tall white American playing every role they've ever read.
The movie is more of a classic than the books. (4. Wrong.) Live with it. (5. Wrong.)
Symmetry = FAIL.
Oh no!
the world is in greater peril from those who tolerate or encourage evil than from those who actually commit it- Albert Einstein
