Post here if you don't buy into the Muhammad Myth.

[Balsiefen]

Dire's lost his mind, and knows nothing of Muslims. The muslims don't worship God, they worship Allah. They don't read the bible, they read the qaran. Islam is a completely different religion than christianity, so any true christian, who believes the teachings of christ, has to believe that all muslims will burn in hell, lest they convert to christianity before they die. If christianity, and Islam weere even close to the same, than the muslims wouldn't keep bombing us because of our religious beliefs

But what if they're right? that would mean all the christians would burn in hell

frankly i'm just hoping Buddhism is right as it goes easier on the brning than the others

[Ruben Cassar]

Correct me if I am wrong but all monotheist religions (Christianity, Islam, Judaism) worship the same God.

[Guiscard]

Woo Go Christians (well, DIRE and Kyle).... [Waves little God Flags]

[HoussamTheGreat]

Woo Go Christians (well, DIRE and Kyle).... [Waves little God Flags]

Amen to that my brotha - and coming from a gun brandishing, bomb flaunting, non-God worshipping, everyone-else hating, and generally unpleasant muslim, that should count for something. OK - maybe the generally unpleasant part is actually true!

[RenegadePaddy]

Correct me if I am wrong but all monotheist religions (Christianity, Islam, Judaism) worship the same God.

Errrrr, sort of, its obviously not that simple.


Christianity has its roots in Judaism (the Torah and Old Testament are one and the same to my knowledge - someone correct me if I'm wrong), with the major idealogical difference being Jesus. For Christians, he was the Messiah, for Jews, the Messiah is still to come. Beyond that its pretty much just differences of pomp and ritual, which are more to do with us down here than any divine plan.

Islam accepts the existance of Jesus, and a link to God through him, but revere him as an extremely holy Prophet, rather than the Messiah again, and place Muhammed as the chief Prophet.

The vast majority of other differences are rooted in the cultures where the religions first grew up, Islam allowing more than one wife for population needs for example, Judaism requiring circumcision to forge national identity as another.

Whether people go up or down after death is generally based on their conduct in life, and if they are a believer or not. A good person is fairly easy to spot, a believer depends on your personal definaition.

[Guiscard]

Correct me if I am wrong but all monotheist religions (Christianity, Islam, Judaism) worship the same God.

Errrrr, sort of, its obviously not that simple.


Christianity has its roots in Judaism (the Torah and Old Testament are one and the same to my knowledge - someone correct me if I'm wrong), with the major idealogical difference being Jesus. For Christians, he was the Messiah, for Jews, the Messiah is still to come. Beyond that its pretty much just differences of pomp and ritual, which are more to do with us down here than any divine plan.

Islam accepts the existance of Jesus, and a link to God through him, but revere him as an extremely holy Prophet, rather than the Messiah again, and place Muhammed as the chief Prophet.

The vast majority of other differences are rooted in the cultures where the religions first grew up, Islam allowing more than one wife for population needs for example, Judaism requiring circumcision to forge national identity as another.

Whether people go up or down after death is generally based on their conduct in life, and if they are a believer or not. A good person is fairly easy to spot, a believer depends on your personal definaition.

DING! On the money, and a fact ignored by many Christians who seem to believe Muhammad invented a God from somewhere.

And the bold section is a brilliant point which I think answers the whole 'Muhammad was a paedophile, he had 90 wives... blah blah blah.... perfectly.

As for the Muhammad myth... same as my answer for Jesus. Except perhaps that Muhammad was a greater political thinker and war leader. If Jesus had had the same situation I'm sure he would have a fought a few battles too and the New Testament would have been a bit different,

[vtmarik]

Islam accepts the existance of Jesus, and a link to God through him, but revere him as an extremely holy Prophet, rather than the Messiah again, and place Muhammed as the chief Prophet.

They also believe that Jesus (Isa) will come back and rule the Earth. They believe in the second coming of Jesus just as much as Christians do. Muhammad was the main prophet who told everyone about Allah, but Jesus is the one who's gonna come back and rule the Earth.

Dire's lost his mind, and knows nothing of Muslims. The muslims don't worship God, they worship Allah. They don't read the bible, they read the qaran. Islam is a completely different religion than christianity,

It's the same God (the God of Abraham) and the Torah is still the foundation of the Koran as it is the Bible (The Old Testament).

so any true christian, who believes the teachings of christ, has to believe that all muslims will burn in hell, lest they convert to christianity before they die. If christianity, and Islam weere even close to the same, than the muslims wouldn't keep bombing us because of our religious beliefs

Thinking that they're attacking us because of our religious beliefs is just as asinine as claiming that they hate us because of our freedom.

JOSH
Thanks. Islamic extremist is to Islamic as "blank" is to Christianity.

Josh writes this on the board as he speaks it again to the kids.

JOSH
Islamic... extremist... is to... Islamic... as... "blank" is... to Christianity.

BOY 2
Christian Fundamentalists.

JOSH
No.

BOY 3
Jehovah's Witnesses?

JOSH
No. Guys, the Christian right may not be your cup of tea, but they're not blowing stuff up. "Islamic extremist is to Islamic as "blank is to Christianity."

No one responds. Josh turns around and writes "KKK" on the dry erase board, and circles it.

JOSH
That's what we're talking about. It's the Klan, gone medieval and global. It couldn't have less to do with Islamic men and women of faith of whom there are millions upon millions. Muslims defend this country in the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, National guard, police and fire departments. So, let's ask the question again.

GIRL 1
Why are Islamic Extremists trying to kill us?

JOSH
That's a reasonable question if ever I heard one. Why are we targets of war?

BOY 2
Because we're Americans.

JOSH
That's it?

GIRL 3
Because of our freedom?

JOSH
No other reasons?

BOY 3
Freedom and democracy.

JOSH
I'll tell you, right or wrong-and I think they're wrong-it's probably a good idea to acknowledge that they do have specific complaints. I-I hear them every day-the people we support, troops in Saudi Arabia, sanctions against Iraq, support for Egypt. It's not just that they don't like Irving Berlin.

DONNA
Yes, it is.

JOSH
No, it's not.

DONNA
No, not about Irving Berlin, but your ridiculous search for rational reasons why somebody straps a bomb to their chest is ridiculous.

JOSH
You just called me ridiculous twice in one sentence.

DONNA
Hardly a record for me.

JOSH
And you just made my list.

DONNA
[to the kids] Nothing happens on the list.

JOSH
It's a serious list. But she does have a point, albeit college girlish.

DONNA
Watch now, as he's going to put me down and make my point at the exact same time.

JOSH
Hardly a record for me. What's Islamic extremism? It's strict adherence to a particular interpretation of 7th century Islamic law as practiced by the prophet Mohammed, and when I say "strict adherence," I'm not kidding around. Men are forced to pray, wear their beards a certain length. Among my favorites is there's only one acceptable cheer at a soccer match: Allah-uh-Akbar-God is great. If your guys are getting creamed, then you're on your own. Things are a lot less comic for women, who aren't allowed to attend school or have jobs. They're not allowed to be unaccompanied, and oftentimes get publicly stoned to death for crimes like not wearing a veil. I don't have to tell you they don't need to shout at a soccer match because they're never going to go to one. So what bothers them about us? Well, the variety of cheers alone coming from the cheap seats at Giants stadium when they're playing the Cowboys is enough for a jihad, to say nothing of street corners lined church next to synagogue, next to mosque, newspapers that can print anything they want, women who can do anything they want including taking a rocket ship to outer space, vote, and play soccer. This is a plural society. That means we accept more than one idea. It offends them. So yes, she does have a point, but that certainly doesn't mean you should listen to her.

The rest of the episode transcript is here.

[wicked]

gotta love the west wing

[chessplaya]

u guyz are the most disgusting descreminating group although im not muslim and sure dont want to follow their way to god but this talk about a prophet just disgust me.. jesus didnt teach us to be descriminating he tought us to love our brother no matter wat he is black white jew asian etc...c'mon guyz act like adults and be good christians if u r christians and jews if ur jews and watever or whoever u r act like a human being

[Kugelblitz22]

I can never decide what my favorite part of Muhammad's life was, the child banging or the war-mongering.

At least Jesus' followers waited a couple of generations before they perverted a righteous message. With Muslims there's no need, they just follow in the prophets footsteps. Maybe they skipped over the peaceful initial stage because they were late comers to the Abrahamic monotheistic religion club and had to play catch-up, coming a full 600 years after Christianity and way way after Judaism.

No I'm not a Christian, Jew, Agnostic, Taoist, whatever.

[jay_a2j]

The problem with people in general is that they tend to make blanket statements about large groups of people for the actions of few.

You cannot hate Christians for the actions of some Christians. Just as you cannot hate police for the actions of some (but people do).

This reminds me of a question that was asked of me years ago. "You wouldn't want to kill a black guy who raped your sister?" To which I responded, "I would probably want to kill anyone who raped my sister REGARDLESS of skin color."

People tend to take an experience or experiences they have had and then judge anyone who fits that description. This is wrong. To hate Christians because you have had some bad experiences with some is just as bad as being a racist.

[cowshrptrn]

Muhammad was a womanizing bigamist. All those who follow his teachings will burn in hell for it

except for the fact that he was very progressive towards women's rights for his time. His wife was older than him and was a very influential figure. The only problem is that what was progressive 1000 years ago is now backwards. Muhammed was going in the right direction, just modern interpretations aren't evolving to fit the times

[cowshrptrn]

I can never decide what my favorite part of Muhammad's life was, the child banging or the war-mongering.

At least Jesus' followers waited a couple of generations before they perverted a righteous message. With Muslims there's no need, they just follow in the prophets footsteps. Maybe they skipped over the peaceful initial stage because they were late comers to the Abrahamic monotheistic religion club and had to play catch-up, coming a full 600 years after Christianity and way way after Judaism.

No I'm not a Christian, Jew, Agnostic, Taoist, whatever.

well, thats because the Christians weren't in power, the moment they caem into power they started corupting the religion, the Muslims jsut became powerful more quickly than chrsitians.

Thats why i like Hinduism, in general it is peaceful, hasn't been used to attack other people (until recently) Find me one Hindu King who waged a war against people of another religion that wasn't for defense and justified it using the Ramayana, the Bagavath Gita, or any other religious text

[Guiscard]

Thats why i like Hinduism, in general it is peaceful, hasn't been used to attack other people (until recently) Find me one Hindu King who waged a war against people of another religion that wasn't for defense and justified it using the Ramayana, the Bagavath Gita, or any other religious text

Most of Indian history until the Moghul Emperors I'm afraid. Lots of Hindu kings fighting lots of other Hindu kings based on an abusive and malicious system of caste.

[DIRESTRAITS]

Thats why i like Hinduism, in general it is peaceful, hasn't been used to attack other people (until recently) Find me one Hindu King who waged a war against people of another religion that wasn't for defense and justified it using the Ramayana, the Bagavath Gita, or any other religious text

Most of Indian history until the Moghul Emperors I'm afraid. Lots of Hindu kings fighting lots of other Hindu kings based on an abusive and malicious system of caste.

Religion will always be twisted by people to create wars. No matter the teachings, religion is a powerfull thing that inspires many people, so despots use it to rally people to a cause. Thats just the way it works

[Guiscard]

Thats why i like Hinduism, in general it is peaceful, hasn't been used to attack other people (until recently) Find me one Hindu King who waged a war against people of another religion that wasn't for defense and justified it using the Ramayana, the Bagavath Gita, or any other religious text

Most of Indian history until the Moghul Emperors I'm afraid. Lots of Hindu kings fighting lots of other Hindu kings based on an abusive and malicious system of caste.

Religion will always be twisted by people to create wars. No matter the teachings, religion is a powerfull thing that inspires many people, so despots use it to rally people to a cause. Thats just the way it works

Agreed.

[flashleg8]

Muhammad was a womanizing bigamist. All those who follow his teachings will burn in hell for it

So was King Soloman a hero from your Bible (700 wives with 300 concubines according to the Bible) - is he in Hell?

[Titanic]

That quote from West Wing is actually pretty good. Islamist extremists are to Islam as KKK are to Christianity.

The Sikhs have never attacked anyone for religious reasons, their actually taught to respect and accept other religious beliefs, even if they do not believe them themselves. In the Sikh Empire, the Sikhs were actually a minority, as people of any religion were accepted and they were allowed to practise their own religion within the Empire without any harassment.

[kclborat]

The problem with people in general is that they tend to make blanket statements about large groups of people for the actions of few.

I seriously hope you mean that towards everyone, including Muslims. If not, I don't know. I'd be left totally speechless.

[cowshrptrn]

Thats why i like Hinduism, in general it is peaceful, hasn't been used to attack other people (until recently) Find me one Hindu King who waged a war against people of another religion that wasn't for defense and justified it using the Ramayana, the Bagavath Gita, or any other religious text

Most of Indian history until the Moghul Emperors I'm afraid. Lots of Hindu kings fighting lots of other Hindu kings based on an abusive and malicious system of caste.

well, i was referring more to external violence, as in conquering others and using religion to justify conquest. In any society there will be two tiers of society, in Europe and china religion was also used to justify this (kings were given divine right, or some form of it). The thing here is that Hindu kings weren't fighting other Hindu kings because they were Hindu, they had valid political reasons. They had to actually rally support for their cause instead of using divine law to do so.

[unriggable]

Religion will always be twisted by people to create wars. No matter the teachings, religion is a powerfull thing that inspires many people, so despots use it to rally people to a cause. Thats just the way it works

'

Now where have I heard this being used....oh yeah!

'Faith-Based Initiatives' by George W Bush.

[vtmarik]

Muhammad was a womanizing bigamist. All those who follow his teachings will burn in hell for it

So was King Soloman a hero from your Bible (700 wives with 300 concubines according to the Bible) - is he in Hell?

Haha, he's gotcha there!

[unriggable]

One thing I would like to get across is the fact that religion is not so much truth as it is a code. As it is translated it gets twisted into something the original writer could not imagine (I don't remember what language, but the original language that the bible was written in and the words for 'woman' and 'virgin' be the same). You use the fear of hell for your own sake, not for to scare others. Keep that in mind at all times to save not just yourself but everybody around you.