Tonky...say something interesting, and debatable.

[Norse]

Make my day.

[unriggable]

Tonka his ass.

[got tonkaed]

im not sure ive actually said anything thats interesting.

Your going to have to give me something to say as obviously as a product of a liberal education i clearly have no starting thoughts on my own.

[unriggable]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,323670,00.html

Comments?

[got tonkaed]

pretty weird more than anything that article...on the one hand, i cant imagine how the girls would end up getting to that point. But at the same time, you cant really do that in the relationship they have.

*Its funny how fox mentions to close he lost his seat to a democrat.*

[got tonkaed]

I suppose if i want to say something debatable....

Recently ive come across many who argue having 2 sexes (men and women) is a stupid idea that leaves a lot of people out. When kids are born ambigously they perform operations that are often cosmetic in nature requiring more than one surgery.

A lot of people want this practice to stop at infancy....i happen to agree with them.

The two gendered system we have has some problems and probably could be more accurate if we changed it a little.

*trying to find something norse can casually disagree with out of hand*

[Norse]

Well actually, you raise an interesting point.

I do not see it as a "how shall we accomodate these people"..but more of a "how shall we get rid of these people". It is neither the responsibility, nor in the moral fabric of the conservative tax-paying public to fund these social experiments with nature.

[got tonkaed]

Well actually, you raise an interesting point.

I do not see it as a "how shall we accomodate these people"..but more of a "how shall we get rid of these people". It is neither the responsibility, nor in the moral fabric of the conservative tax-paying public to fund these social experiments with nature.

i hadnt actually thought about it from the national healthcare perspective....but the operation is frequently done without any consent from the parents as quickly as possible. So it is likely that there would be minimal gov. consultation.

Its a more interesting question though from your countries system than mine. Assuming the parents wanted the operation done, which some do, what happens to those cases?

[Norse]

I have not got a clue.

Probably the same, although, I cannot see them performing operations without parental consent on a minor.

[got tonkaed]

I have not got a clue.

Probably the same, although, I cannot see them performing operations without parental consent on a minor.

well typically what happens is....they dont give out really proper information of whats gone on. They dont really allow parents to speak with an expert and they do an operation that changes the sex of the child, and tell the parents to raise the child as the new sex.

Its not a common practice (a little less that 1 percent of kids are born this way) but thats oftne how it works. At least into the 1990s

[Norse]

That is fucked up....If that were to happen in Britain, the trust would be sued millions, and that is a fact.

[got tonkaed]

That is fucked up....If that were to happen in Britain, the trust would be sued millions, and that is a fact.

i dont know much about it internationally, but i have a feeling the practice is not as different as you would think.

People tend to like the idea that there isnt a whole lot of variation between how bodies are made. People who are more essentialist have take the approach to fix the little mistakes rather than try to have them live different lives.

[suggs]

Clearly, the kids should be left alone.
Unless the parents have excellent information, and are completely certain its whst they want to do. Even then, its still messing with someone elses life wihch is as dodgy as hell.
Good work tonk!

[Norse]

That is fucked up....If that were to happen in Britain, the trust would be sued millions, and that is a fact.

i dont know much about it internationally, but i have a feeling the practice is not as different as you would think.

People tend to like the idea that there isnt a whole lot of variation between how bodies are made. People who are more essentialist have take the approach to fix the little mistakes rather than try to have them live different lives.

Well bugger me tonky, I'm a grade-A lesbo stuck inside a hot mans body...how do you think feel?

But seriously, I suppose that I am fairly ignorant, and will quite happily remain ignorant of these occurances...it's just....creepy.

[got tonkaed]

Clearly, the kids should be left alone.
Unless the parents have excellent information, and are completely certain its whst they want to do. Even then, its still messing with someone elses life wihch is as dodgy as hell.
Good work tonk!

the interesting thing is people cant really seem to figure out of these operations are "successful". Cosmetics aside, there tends to be reproductive problems, sexual problems, and frequently these indivduals end up being wanting to change sexes later in life.

The whole thing is filled with interesting things....

[got tonkaed]

it is pretty crazy, like everything else though, people are starting to get together and put movements out there. On the one hand they probably will never have enough numbers to truly sway a whole lot opinion but at the same time issues that can get a little publicity end up becoming huge political issues.

There are a lot of things i could see conservative or liberal people latching onto and making political points out of it. Its probably an abuse i think, because making some of these things a political issue misses the mark.

[suggs]

"La, La,La,La, Interesting Drug"
Sorry i Have Morrissey teurets syndrome. It also means i cant spell for tofeee.
I'm not a big fan of moral absolutes, but messing around with someones sexuality is just WRONG.
And to all you wanky moral relativists out there: no i cant prove its wrong, but it is anyway.

[got tonkaed]

"La, La,La,La, Interesting Drug"
Sorry i Have Morrissey teurets syndrome. It also means i cant spell for tofeee.
I'm not a big fan of moral absolutes, but messing around with someones sexuality is just WRONG.
And to all you wanky moral relativists out there: no i cant prove its wrong, but it is anyway.

theres nothing wrong with being a wanky moral relativist....i actually think relativists make this argument. We would be the ones who would say you dont have to force someone into one sexuality.

[Snorri1234]

I have not got a clue.

Probably the same, although, I cannot see them performing operations without parental consent on a minor.

well typically what happens is....they dont give out really proper information of whats gone on. They dont really allow parents to speak with an expert and they do an operation that changes the sex of the child, and tell the parents to raise the child as the new sex.

Its not a common practice (a little less that 1 percent of kids are born this way) but thats oftne how it works. At least into the 1990s

Yeah, I learned about this in medschool. The basic problem is that the kids are inbetween, and the doctors know the child won't be happy if they do nothing about it.

The kid is neither male or female, and often the doctors just figure it's best to make them either one instead of the kid growing up way confused.
I can see it's pretty fucked up, but without public awereness of these things I think the doctors just try to choose the lesser of 2 evils.

[got tonkaed]

part of the issue i have with that is, we are finding their tends to be a lot of identification problems later on in life. And considering how quickly they do the operation after the child is born, i dont see the harm in having some kind of expert who can at least do a consultation with the parents. Its not like if you did this operation a week later the outcome would be very different, outside of the AIS condition that needs to be dealt with quickly.