Game Statistics

[K-dub]

i cant believe you guys actually dont like this because u say that it gives u an advantage with people not knowing how many troops u have...u dont need an advantage if u ask me...a good player doesnt need an advantage...besides for people like me who actually have lives, by haveing a life i mean people who dont spend all fo their time on CC, this helps alot because i count the troops myself but now i can just look at that chart so i can get things done and move on to my next event now.

[sully800]

It wasn't possible to "ignore it" until lack's latest modification. Thank you for putting spoils in the left-most column, lack!

Now the truth is it really can be ignored... simply don't scroll right and all is well. That doesn't strike me as a particularly good permanent solution, but at last it is no longer causing me problems.

I'm also not sure why people feel like they should be able to have the computer count cards for them and not any of the other stats. Oh! Because it's new.

The card counter is also a fairly recent development, but most people are used to it and appreciate it. If lack were to take it away, a lot of people would be up in arms. The same will happen with the troop/territory counters, once everyone settles in and gets used to having that info readily available, if they didn't previously.

[denominator]

Everyone against this new update is really starting to irk me.

First of all, counting territories does not equal strategy. Anyone can sit at the computer and count territories all day long and it still does not make you a better player than somebody that just goes without bothering to count. It gives you a slight advantage in playing the region bonus against other players (ex 12 vs 13 territories). But counting =/= strategy.

Secondly, the ......
....
....
.... there is no reason you need to disable this, or even have an option to.

Ok, point well taken. However, four things/examples:

1) Lazy people will do better now. They should not be rewarded for being lazy.

2) example.... England (BETA), most people don't look for those region bonuses but will notice it before the first turn is taken because the amount of men to be received is clearly displayed. Yeah, i know, u can read the key. But, many people don't read it and make sense of it.

3) strategy is gone when you spoon feed information to people.

4) Do you know how many times people miss that you obtained a bonus in the previous round! Well before the stat bar, it happened fairly frequently. Not now, BOOM, lazy people, look at the STAT bar.

I have a grand idea....
Like I said before, lets go ahead and make another stat bar that tells you the odds that you will win when you roll against the adjacent territory.

So basically, what your argument comes down to is that with the previous setup, you were able to exploit the lazier players on CC and now that little exploitation has been taken from you?

I personally don't see it as being lazy. To me, playing RISK or CC is not about being better able to count territories and/or troops to set up wins, it is positioning yourself such that you are in the best position at the right time for the win. Yes, I will admit that knowing who has how many troops where is a large part of that, but there is a tool that can do that for us and allow me to play more games at once.

With your England example, that is one of the many new maps that I would never touch unless I had BOB or I was playing only 1 or 2 games at a time. The bonus structure there is so convoluted that the first time you play that map you have no idea how it works without extensive studying of the map. It's the same with the "known" "farming" maps (Circus Maximus, AoRs, City Mogul, etc) where people experienced on the map will dominate a first time player every time. This update simply gives the less experienced player a fairer chance on their first go on a new map.

The strategy is in no way compromised by this. Just because everybody has the same information now doesn't mean that everybody will use it in the same manner. In my opinion, it should make the strategy even better, because you will eliminate the scenarios where a player makes an unwise move based on a lack of information given to them. Which will make for better games for everyone.

Again, your final point boils down to you wanting to take advantage of inexperienced players. I find the game more entertaining when victories aren't handed to me by foolish plays made by my opponent, but if all you care about is winning, then I suppose you are right.

To me, this all comes down to trying to make CC as close to RISK as possible (that's why we're all here, right?). When I sit down with my buddies to play RISK, I keep track of all the armies on the board and all the territories owned by every player. I don't wait until my turn to do counts because I am active in the game the entire time. I do the same thing when I play a speed or RT game, because I am active in the game the entire time. But for the standard speed games on CC, I only play, on average, every 24 hours. Which means I'm not watching everyone else's turn and simply don't have the option to track armies and territories and am forced to count on every turn in every game. Forgive me if this seems tedious and redundant to me, but I would much prefer have a computer do this for me so that I can play more games and still do the fun part - the strategy. Because regardless of whether the computer counts the troops or I count the troops, it won't change my strategy in the end.

Basically, your argument boils down to you being upset about an advantage being taken away from you. You are no longer able to exploit players as effectively, so you want the update to go away.

[rockfist]

This just makes the game easier for lazy players.

I enjoy beating difficult opponents who require my best play to defeat, but I'll be honest of the 10-20 games I have going I only bring my "A game" to 3-7 of them at any one time. Its all I have the time/focus for. I understand that 5 of the games are either guaranteed wins or guaranteed losses, neither of which require an A game, but still I don't want to have to be on my A game all the time in every game.

This "enhancement" makes it too easy for mediocre players to negate the advantages you gain over them by doing some of the little things. There was never an advantage over good players with counting territories anyway.

I don't care for it.

[Bruceswar]

It wasn't possible to "ignore it" until lack's latest modification. Thank you for putting spoils in the left-most column, lack!

Now the truth is it really can be ignored... simply don't scroll right and all is well. That doesn't strike me as a particularly good permanent solution, but at last it is no longer causing me problems.

I'm also not sure why people feel like they should be able to have the computer count cards for them and not any of the other stats. Oh! Because it's new.

The card counter is also a fairly recent development, but most people are used to it and appreciate it. If lack were to take it away, a lot of people would be up in arms. The same will happen with the troop/territory counters, once everyone settles in and gets used to having that info readily available, if they didn't previously.

I have been here since 2007 and that feature has always been there. Anyhow putting that aside.. the sheer space this takes up is a mess. Why not just let those who do not want it be able to disable it and just have it like before? You would make many people happy. This update has brought out lots of anger in lots of people for different reasons...


btw I have an 18 inch monitor and mine is maxed at 1280 x 1024 soooo just saying...

[sully800]

I have been here since 2007 and that feature has always been there.

Yeah, time does fly guess! The card counters were added in mid 2007, so it was a lot longer than I thought

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=17028

Here are some of the snippets from that thread:

Don't like this change:

Card Counters
No more scrolling through the game log to figure out how many cards your opponents have!

It gave the player something extra if he was willing to put some effort into it. And it was easy now you could sent notes to yourself.

I like all the changes but i'm not a fan of displaying the cards....figuring out who has how many was a strategy that I don't think should have been given away.

Many players already use the Greasemonkey script, so it's just fair that everyone gets that information...

To all of you whining about displaying card..... you know you can get that option with greasemonkey right? So theres not really a strategic gain for those of you who counts card by log. Its only a disadvantage for those unable to install firefox and greasemonkey.

Now I cant lie to people who dont have greasemonkey on how many cards I have !!!! No more easy wins !

Sound familiar? As you can see we went through the exact same process and debate previously. I agree the game would reward dedicated players more if the log information was not available, but it is and it will always be easy to access through Grease Monkey. Therefore players are making it harder for themselves by not using the script, and new players enjoy the game less because they have to tediously count cards and territories all the time. That is, until lack updated the site and made it a lot more user friendly.

[chephren]

I'm all for improvements to the site but for me personally this is NOT an improvement...firstly something has messed up the "Watched Games" since the change - players are no longer listed, nor is time remaining to take turn. This, I guess, is a bug that can be fixed.

But the scrolling across is just plain annoying...for me the number 1 rule on any website is "No Horizontal Scrolling" ...that's the first lesson any webmaster learns.

To enforce this on players who invest enough time into the site to use BOB anyway makes it a step backwards rather than a step forwards.

It should be an option for players who haven't discovered BOB yet.

Thanks.

[Bruceswar]

I'm all for improvements to the site but for me personally this is NOT an improvement...firstly something has messed up the "Watched Games" since the change - players are no longer listed, nor is time remaining to take turn. This, I guess, is a bug that can be fixed.

But the scrolling across is just plain annoying...for me the number 1 rule on any website is "No Horizontal Scrolling" ...that's the first lesson any webmaster learns.

To enforce this on players who invest enough time into the site to use BOB anyway makes it a step backwards rather than a step forwards.

It should be an option for players who haven't discovered BOB yet.

Thanks.

The bolded part is key here. Any web guy knows this. Make it as user friendly as possible.

[Bruceswar]

Sound familiar? As you can see we went through the exact same process and debate previously. I agree the game would reward dedicated players more if the log information was not available, but it is and it will always be easy to access through Grease Monkey. Therefore players are making it harder for themselves by not using the script, and new players enjoy the game less because they have to tediously count cards and territories all the time. That is, until lack updated the site and made it a lot more user friendly.

Totally different. When you play real life risk you can quickly see how many cards player X has, unless they are hiding them. In real life there is no BOB to help you out Old fashion counting / looking is the best way.

Let us just disable it and we will be happy! Those who want it can keep it.

[cthulhu]

It's an awesome change! It makes the game context a lot easier to absorb for those of us with many games to keep track of.

-Cthulhu

[Night Strike]

I'm all for improvements to the site but for me personally this is NOT an improvement...firstly something has messed up the "Watched Games" since the change - players are no longer listed, nor is time remaining to take turn. This, I guess, is a bug that can be fixed.

I believe you're talking about the Greasemonkey script, in which case, it's not lack's responsibility to fix. It's up to the script designer. That doesn't automatically make the update bad, it just means that someone needs to update a file.

[hahaha3hahaha]

As a lot of people have requested...make it OPTIONAL. Both sides of the debate (those who DO, and those who DON'T) will then be happy. I want this waste of space disabled.

[drunkmonkey]

Totally different. When you play real life risk you can quickly see how many cards player X has, unless they are hiding them. In real life there is no BOB to help you out Old fashion counting / looking is the best way.

In real life, you're (usually) not playing 40 games at one time, either.

[gooniekillah]

lots of people have said this now, including myself, but please
rather than remove the strategy for everyone by implementing this update and even the playing field in the superior way: ELIMINATE BOB!!! that was everyone has to strategize rather than no one.
dice rolls and drop ARE the most determining factor now.

Ban BOB



Ban BOB



Ban BOB




Ban BOB



dont f*ck up the site for everyone

[Duality.]

lots of people have said this now, including myself, but please
rather than remove the strategy for everyone by implementing this update and even the playing field in the superior way: ELIMINATE BOB!!! that was everyone has to strategize rather than no one.
dice rolls and drop ARE the most determining factor now.

Ban BOB



Ban BOB



Ban BOB




Ban BOB



dont f*ck up the site for everyone

Alternatively, you could shut up and stop being a bellend.

[chephren]

I'm all for improvements to the site but for me personally this is NOT an improvement...firstly something has messed up the "Watched Games" since the change - players are no longer listed, nor is time remaining to take turn. This, I guess, is a bug that can be fixed.

I believe you're talking about the Greasemonkey script, in which case, it's not lack's responsibility to fix. It's up to the script designer. That doesn't automatically make the update bad, it just means that someone needs to update a file.

It was working fine before the change. "Watched Games" is an awesome script for those of us who need to administer Clan games.

If you read my post a little more carefully, I did say that it's a bug that can be fixed. It wasn't my prime reason for posting...that was the Horizontal scrolling.

[Bruceswar]

Totally different. When you play real life risk you can quickly see how many cards player X has, unless they are hiding them. In real life there is no BOB to help you out Old fashion counting / looking is the best way.

In real life, you're (usually) not playing 40 games at one time, either.

No you play a real time game and end it right then also. You do not leave games sitting for weeks unless you are slow. Why is it so hard to just let us have the option to disable it? It would make so many people happy. Part of running a good business is to keep your paying customers happy, not piss them off. Sure there is always new blood, but don't piss the blood you already have off.

[JoshyBoy]

Bruceswar makes a good point. There are plenty of PAYING cuntomers who do not want this update on their screens. Now can you really ignore what some of your paying customers are saying? Well I guess you can do what you want.

[AAFitz]

Totally different. When you play real life risk you can quickly see how many cards player X has, unless they are hiding them. In real life there is no BOB to help you out Old fashion counting / looking is the best way.

Well, this is far from real life. As someone said you don't usually play 40 games in real life at one time. Further, you dont usually play games that go on for weeks, months, or years.

All this is is a time saver. It changes nothing, except that it helps the more inexperienced players keep up a little better with the experienced ones.

All real players use this info when they need it anyways. If someone was making turns without the info, then they simply werent great players to begin with. So, all this does is save time in real challenges.

The people this benefits most, are those that didnt have BOB, and didnt really count up the info needed to make an educated move, which means the only real people that this affects negatively, are the ones that have the info, and were playing people without the info.

I myself have had BOB for years, but with click maps it goes so slow, I only turn it on in important games. The rest of them simply dont require it...though now in speed games, it will be nice to have.

[JoshyBoy]

Well I finally managed to turn it off thanks to BOB. Thank heavens that I now no longer have to look at the monstrosity.

[nippersean]

lots of people have said this now, including myself, but please
rather than remove the strategy for everyone by implementing this update and even the playing field in the superior way: ELIMINATE BOB!!! that was everyone has to strategize rather than no one.
dice rolls and drop ARE the most determining factor now.

Ban BOB



Ban BOB



Ban BOB




Ban BOB



dont f*ck up the site for everyone

But don't despair! I've invented a new game to give you all that missing strategy back!

It's called - COUNTING! (trademark pending)

Here's how to play.........

One player is the referee. He or she puts a number of coloured beads in a bowl.

Each player in turn (with their back's to other players) counts the beads and writes down the number on a piece of paper.
Don't forget to put your name at the top!

Then, when all players have completed this, they get searched.
This is for missing beads / calculators and such. Any guilty ones get sent to the "Sinbin"

All the parties then count the beads TOGETHER (no cheating now.) When they agree on the all important "Bead Number"
The nearest one wins!!

The simple ideas are the most brilliant!

Have fun!

[drunkmonkey]

Bruceswar makes a good point. There are plenty of PAYING cuntomers who do not want this update on their screens. Now can you really ignore what some of your paying customers are saying? Well I guess you can do what you want.

I'd bet the thousands of paying members that will stay outweigh the 15-20 of you crybabies who threaten to quit and the 1-2 who actually will.

[chipv]

I'm all for improvements to the site but for me personally this is NOT an improvement...firstly something has messed up the "Watched Games" since the change - players are no longer listed, nor is time remaining to take turn. This, I guess, is a bug that can be fixed.

But the scrolling across is just plain annoying...for me the number 1 rule on any website is "No Horizontal Scrolling" ...that's the first lesson any webmaster learns.

To enforce this on players who invest enough time into the site to use BOB anyway makes it a step backwards rather than a step forwards.

It should be an option for players who haven't discovered BOB yet.

Thanks.

Just for info, if you haven't seen already, Dako has fixed Watched Games so please reinstall.

[-Maximus-]

yay! I turned it off. Thank you CC. Now the newbs can enjoy territ counting and I can keep my screen with big map.

[Jace-N]

ba-da-ba-ba-ba...IM LOVIN' IT