Conquer Club

Ok, so I have no knowledge of France really, but according to this thread the current one is really inaccurate. I decided to help out all the French people who I would assume have been mad about this for a while, if it is really that false, so I made a France 2.0 map. It is much more territories and much more accurate.
There are a lot of bonus areas which will all be really hard to old and should allow for some good gameplay.
Mapmaker: Captainwalrus - Graphics, Sailorseal - XML

Title: France 2.0

Number of regions- 90 mabey? I keep loosing count, and I am missing some I think.

Number of bonus regions - 20

Gameplay- Standard.

Version 2

old versions
V1 http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt23 ... ce20v1.png
Feedback please!

captainwalrus wrote:There are a lot of bonus areas which will all be really hard to old and should allow for some good gameplay.

there are too many tiny bonus zones, which will raise the issue of fair starts. combine haute-normandie and basse-normandie into normandie, alsace and lorraine into alsace-lorraine and nord-pas-de-calais and picardie into artois-picardie.

it's nice to see recognisable city names on the map. what will u do with ile-de-france?

ian.

That's a great start! I really like maps with a lot of small bonus regions (Charlestown for example) because it means there are many different places you can start. You do have too many that are 2 and 3 territories I think. 4 is a good number to shoot for, because there is much less of a chance that someone will start with the whole region. Some 2's and 3's are probably okay, but then you might consider adding a couple of neutral territories to prevent very lucky first turns.

The legend you have devised is not going to work, because there are way too many regions. It would take a very long time to match each region label to the same color on the map. I think a better solution in this case would be to write the bonus region name directly on the land in large letters that don't stand out too much. See Middle East or the New World for examples of what I'm talking about.

I know you are going to have trouble with a small map, especially because you already started another thread about it. The best idea is to start with the small map first and do whatever you can to make it legible. If you can't get the small map to work, they unfortunately won't approve your map. Many big ideas have been foiled by this sticking point. It will probably be helpful to pick a font that is more narrow and not so bold. This will allow you to fit much more text in small regions.

Finally, I don't really like the way the B/W/R of the background lay on top of the map itself. It looks nice for the background, but keep the map colors independent as if all the land is sitting on top of the flag. You have the same issue in the area of the legend which makes the blue look especially funny.

Keep up the good work!

sully800 wrote:That's a great start! I really like maps with a lot of small bonus regions (Charlestown for example) because it means there are many different places you can start. You do have too many that are 2 and 3 territories I think. 4 is a good number to shoot for, because there is much less of a chance that someone will start with the whole region. Some 2's and 3's are probably okay, but then you might consider adding a couple of neutral territories to prevent very lucky first turns.
Ok, can't I either do what ian said and combine some or just do the xml so that for the few 2 region bonus regions one always starts nutural?


The legend you have devised is not going to work, because there are way too many regions. It would take a very long time to match each region label to the same color on the map. I think a better solution in this case would be to write the bonus region name directly on the land in large letters that don't stand out too much. See Middle East or the New World for examples of what I'm talking about.
I'll see what I can do.

I know you are going to have trouble with a small map, especially because you already started another thread about it. The best idea is to start with the small map first and do whatever you can to make it legible. If you can't get the small map to work, they unfortunately won't approve your map. Many big ideas have been foiled by this sticking point. It will probably be helpful to pick a font that is more narrow and not so bold. This will allow you to fit much more text in small regions.
It might not be as hard as I first thought. The font is a lot smaller and things fit better than I thought at first.


Finally, I don't really like the way the B/W/R of the background lay on top of the map itself. It looks nice for the background, but keep the map colors independent as if all the land is sitting on top of the flag. You have the same issue in the area of the legend which makes the blue look especially funny.
It is in the background but all the region fills are 80% opacity, so I will make that just 100 and then the flag will only be in the background.


Keep up the good work!
Keep giving good advise.

iancanton wrote:it's nice to see recognisable city names on the map. what will u do with ile-de-france?
I was going to have it as an inset, but I sort of forgot.

Thanks for the advise.

I like the map so far, I think its a great start. But I would place the map on top of the tricolor and legend. I would also like to see the non-playable areas filled in (Germany, Belgium, Spain, ect.) It's nice to see the map placed on something rather than floating around in nothing.

Some of the smaller bonus regions seem unnecessary. Couldn't they be grouped or is this done for a reason?

And you left out Corsica

Otherwise, very nice start. This is a map that I would love to play!

Just a small suggestion, but how about an autodeploy on Ile-de-France?

Industrial Helix wrote:I like the map so far, I think its a great start. But I would place the map on top of the tricolor and legend. I would also like to see the non-playable areas filled in (Germany, Belgium, Spain, ect.) It's nice to see the map placed on something rather than floating around in nothing.

Some of the smaller bonus regions seem unnecessary. Couldn't they be grouped or is this done for a reason?

And you left out Corsica

Otherwise, very nice start. This is a map that I would love to play!

Lol, I just sort of got lazy and didn't bother to put in Corsica, but I have it on the bonus key. The smaller bonus regions I put in because I like small bonus regions, but also I wanted this to be accurate as possible, since last time I tried to make a map of somewhere I am not from, I got hammered for inaccuracy.

Should I work from the small version or large?
Update comming

captainwalrus wrote:Should I work from the small version or large?
Update comming

captainwalrus, i always work on the small map first because it usually ensures that everything fits well and all the terit text is legible at the samll size as well as the army shadows (if you using them fitting intside the relevant territory). It is then a lot easier to propogate the map up to the large size.
I see that you already have a large map with quite a number of small territories and small text on each. This could preseent great challanges decreasing to the small size.The decisiosn is your, depends on how much mucking around you want to do.
Nice start though.

cairnswk wrote:

captainwalrus wrote:Should I work from the small version or large?
Update comming

captainwalrus, i always work on the small map first because it usually ensures that everything fits well and all the terit text is legible at the samll size as well as the army shadows (if you using them fitting intside the relevant territory). It is then a lot easier to propogate the map up to the large size.
I see that you already have a large map with quite a number of small territories and small text on each. This could preseent great challanges decreasing to the small size.The decisiosn is your, depends on how much mucking around you want to do.
Nice start though.

Listen to cairns, he knows what he is talking about. I try to start with the small map first as well. Much easier to get it all in and then upscale to the bigger map.

From what you haev already posted, you might find that some of your territories will need to be combined to make it work. Only one way to find out. Good luck.

WM

cairnswk wrote:

captainwalrus wrote:Should I work from the small version or large?
Update comming

captainwalrus, i always work on the small map first because it usually ensures that everything fits well and all the terit text is legible at the samll size as well as the army shadows (if you using them fitting intside the relevant territory). It is then a lot easier to propogate the map up to the large size.
I see that you already have a large map with quite a number of small territories and small text on each. This could preseent great challanges decreasing to the small size.The decisiosn is your, depends on how much mucking around you want to do.
Nice start though.

Everything he said

I'll look into the map in a bit, but like cairns said helluva start,

.44

Here's some feedback

Title
This will encompass some other parts of the map as well into my suggestion, but first I just have to say could you choose a plainer title? In any case, here's what I suggest: You take the flag off the background (which I have to say kinda mars the some of the nice colors on the map), take an imperial font like Lilith (all caps by the way), put the flag in the background with faded edges, and the 2.0 on a second line. Here's what I came up with:

(Of course in a smaller scale) — You'd take off the edges more (as in more faded out), but just my thinking.

Also, if you'd name it "France II" that'd make it seem much more fitting to what is associated in one's mind with France — the imperial culture and history, etc.

Legend
It has the same fundamental problem most legends without a graphical representation of the area it is about or some sort of marker on the map itself has — the colors just aren't different enough (or in this case, few enough) to differentiate from one another. On this map I'm quickly thinking of two ways to go about it, both keeping the key you have now but adding something on/of the map. My first way is creating a minimap that has abbreviations of the bonuses on it, i.e. Al., Aq., Au., B.-N., etc. This would clear it up as long as you have unique abbreviations. The other way I think of is to stick the same abbreviations in the background of the bonus regions, like MrBenn did on England. I'd prefer the first, however, with the following layout:
TEXT LEGEND: bottom left (where you have it)
MINIMAP: top left, above Bretange
TITLE: top right (more on this area later)
SIG: bottom right (where you have it)

And though having the colors in back of the names is nice, I think it'd be better implemented as a close, sharp glow outside of the names. Now, if you were to implement what I say about the sea below, it'd be apparent things like Centre wouldn't be visible, so instead of putting the odd white box around all the names, creating a new layer consisting of the same fill amount as the names (like done with the bevel I talk about later) and making a white outer glow that stretches further than the colored ones could do the trick. This part is just in my mind though, so you might have to experiment.

Dead Area
Well, if you move the flag out of the background like I suggest, then we have a lot of empty space to work with. I think you should add the rest of Europe, like on the old one, and there place the title. Then, you make a selection of all of the playable area, fill it into a new layer and make the fill opacity 0% while you keep the layer style at 100%. This'll get a nice bevel on top of the whole land.

The next thing about the water would be (in my opinion) to take a nice deep blue, like #304291, and make the land have some outer glow of plain white at low opacity, making the water a nice cyan-blue color near the land. You could also overlay images that represent France (Medieval, Renaissance, whatever) for something to fill the dead space, namely in the bottom right.

Borders & Names
The black-on-dark isn't really working too well with the borders, so if you'd take the outer glow from the names and put it on the borders they'd be more visible in the dark spots like Centre, P-A-C-d'A, etc. Also, the bold, blocky font you used doesn't really go with "France," so taking a font like Perpetua looks nice from just writing it out on a blank canvas.

Like I said, really good start and I hope you see it through to the end
.44

I didn't get a chance to change everything that was requested, but I did work on some things

Changes

- Size now 640X600
-font not bold
-Names of bonus regions added, somewhat sloppy though.
- slight glow on boarders of bonus regions.
- Eiffle tower thing added
- Background lighting.
- Combined some bonus regions
- minor things to make things fit.

Changes to make

- title
-fix bonus region names
- font size?
- Corcisa again

I don't realy want to have the surrounding countries added, I like it being just about France.

Oh, and on some of the boarders there are partial breaks, that is from where the names overlapped bafore I changed the font, I will fix that.

~Captainwalrus

I like the map as a whole, but the main issue I have is the text- its too hard to read, especially in the Black on blue for the legend and the Bonus area names that cross borders. Maybe put the legend on the Red side?

That's great you go a step further and made a real proposition
the biggest issue I see here is the size
you shouldn't go any further without trying with army numbers
on such big maps it's the main graphic issue
there are some misspelling but we will come on that later
and about black on dark not only it is unreadable but also armies will be
make all your map lighter

go on

pamoa wrote:you shouldn't go any further without trying with army numbers
on such big maps it's the main graphic issue

They fit! Some are tight but they fit!

nice
from that point I would say make just a slightly lighter version of the map so everybody can see everything and lets discuss about gameplay
you should not try to resolve the graphic issues before sorting out gameplay else you could end redoing all the map

GAMEPLAY:
have thought about any impassable borders?
will Île-de-France remain as a single territory as there are 5 départements in that region?
maybe you can put five armies on that single territory so they attack and can be attacked each other and with bordering territories
where will you put the 2 Corsica départements on the map?

PS your map is 1 pixel too high

keep going

One of the bonus is Corse... But I can't see it

So far nice effort. Don't like the map of France, but I might like this;)

Your current map size is 640px by 601px. Before you continue you should know that their is restrictions on map sizes and they are as follows:

SMALL MAP: 630px x 600 px
LARGE MAP: 840px x 800 px

With how tight some stuff is currently I assume this is your small map you are currently developing, it is a little to large. You may wish to fix that before doing anything else otherwise you may do to much then realise that you can't get your map within the restrictions.

Cheers,
gimil

gimil wrote:Your current map size is 640px by 601px. Before you continue you should know that their is restrictions on map sizes and they are as follows:

SMALL MAP: 630px x 600 px
LARGE MAP: 840px x 800 px

With how tight some stuff is currently I assume this is your small map you are currently developing, it is a little to large. You may wish to fix that before doing anything else otherwise you may do to much then realise that you can't get your map within the restrictions.

Cheers,
gimil

I'm sure I can shave off ten pixles but thanks for pointing that out, I thought it was 640 x 600


I still need to put in corse, and impassibles.

my first thought about this map was a coloring contest. it appears you used every crayon in the box!

I can't read many of the terit names. I think the font is far too small and many of the names are overlapping borders making them nearly illegible. Saint-Etienne is crammed into Auvergne, Bourg-en-Bresse is hanging on Macon. Etc etc etc. The purple of Centre is way to dark and the highlights there are not enough.

I think you need to work Paris into the map somehow. I get that Ille-de-France is supposed to represent that, but it just seems silly to have a map of France sans 'le ville des lumières'. The regional name is cute, but in reality, its still basically Paris and Parisian suburbs. At the very least add a little 'capitol star' or put a mini Eiffel Tower... something.

While I applaud your effort, my biggest problem with this map is that it doesn't feel very French. It looks kind of like a geography presentation from my jr. high days. I don't mean this as an insult, but I feel it lacks a certain... je ne sais pas. I don't think a French flag & a silhouetted Eiffel Tower supply any French ambiance.

If you drop the background, does it still look like a French map to you? Without those two elements, its an ambiguous blob of color and I think the country of France deserves more than that.

And I second the absence of impassables. Where are the French Alps? Mount Blanc is the highest point in Western Europe, but this map looks flatter than Kansas. Where is the Seine? The Rhone? The Loire? etc? Where is the ocean? France is mostly coastline.

I think the colors and the background clash badly. I hope you'll reconsider those and put some geographical depth into this and give it some character. Perhaps its just me, but I prefer maps that aren't just a smattering of connected colors. I enjoy the thematics - accuracy be damned.

the.killing.44 wrote:could you choose a plainer title?

Walrus - since you are using french terit names, why not stick to that theme and name this map "République Française"?

Or you could go with something like 'Modern Gaul' - in reference to its historical name.

WOW - I just noticed a rather bizarre optical illusion element to this map. Can someone else try this and post their results, so I know I'm not crazy?

Look at the map on your screen and slowly move your head from side to side while remaining focused on the map.

When I do this, elements of the map appear to move. The bonus legend and the dark borders over the blue part of the flag seem to move left and right, while the orange and yellow bonus areas stay in place. I notice it in the other dark areas of the map as well - Centre, Limousin, Aquatine. Certain elements over the red part of the flag move as well.

It nearly looks 3-D!!!

This is a very cool (though I'm assuming unintentional) optical trick!

captainwalrus wrote:You can send it to the bin.

[Moved]