Conquer Club

Cybercity: The Uprising

Have an idea for a map? Discuss ideas and concepts here.

Moderator: Cartographers

Forum rules
Please read the Community Guidelines before posting.

Re: Cybercity: The Uprising

Postby Bob XIII on Tue Jul 13, 2010 6:36 am

Gameplay-wise, it is very clear in concept, but probably will not be so clear in execution, if that makes sense... I know where you're going with it, but the details will be hard to make explicit to anyone playing this map cold. How will a player know what territ is 'normal', which is 'special', and which is a 'defense'?


i have added a defense icon to the key (will be changing the name to lasers on the next version)... and the targeting aid helps recognize specials for the silo/ion beam?..

Problems: As someone else mentioned, 4 is probably higher than some players can comfortably count, and it certainly makes gameplay analysis a headache. Even a range of 2 territs can be a bit of a pain. What's more, you'll have to be careful to take impassibles into account for this type of bombardment- can a bombardment leap over walls for instance?


i have added the targeting aid in the bottom corner and on the army number windows...
Cook Bob XIII
 
Posts: 79
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 8:50 am

Re: Cybercity: The Uprising

Postby Bob XIII on Tue Jul 13, 2010 6:39 am

anything else i should be taking into account for the next draft?
Cook Bob XIII
 
Posts: 79
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 8:50 am

Re: Cybercity: The Uprising

Postby Bob XIII on Thu Jul 15, 2010 10:19 pm

so here is a sample of the map with some of the text done in 'times new roman'... i need to resize about a half a dozen small spots before i continue. In the mean time, i know it's a common font, but it is legible... what do people think?

Click image to enlarge.
image
Cook Bob XIII
 
Posts: 79
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 8:50 am

Re: Cybercity: The Uprising

Postby Bob XIII on Thu Jul 15, 2010 10:52 pm

PS the previous pic has text in terminal for the domes and nexus... deciding between the two or half/half?
Cook Bob XIII
 
Posts: 79
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 8:50 am

Re: Cybercity: The Uprising

Postby Bob XIII on Thu Jul 15, 2010 10:55 pm

is there somebody out there who wants to help me with this map?
Cook Bob XIII
 
Posts: 79
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 8:50 am

Re: Cybercity: The Uprising

Postby MarshalNey on Fri Jul 16, 2010 12:15 am

What sort of help are you looking for? Comments, advice, graphics?

Sure, I'm sure there are lots of people who would like to help. I'd help if I wasn't already sort of tied up, but I'll peek in and comment still.

As you might have guessed, I think there's a lot of potential with this map, but it needs work pruning back because your big problem seems to be that the map is overloaded with gameplay elements, some of which a little complex to explain. Pruning is really hard for me, I hate letting go of ideas...

Anyway, I'd stick with working on the 'core' elements of the map as you see them. For me, these core elements are:

(1) Sci-fi dysutopia
(2) Large variety of bombardments
(3) Standard open gameplay

The teleporters, etc. add to the sci-fi theme (and hence #1 on my list), but I think the sci-fi theme is already strong without them, so maybe they could get the axe if they aren't necessary for gameplay reasons.
User avatar
Captain MarshalNey
 
Posts: 781
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 9:02 pm
Location: St. Louis, MO

Re: Cybercity: The Uprising

Postby Bob XIII on Sat Jul 17, 2010 11:58 pm

What sort of help are you looking for? Comments, advice, graphics?


well comments are always good and so far they've been very helpful... i'm happy to work away at it with the graphics and code later. I just don't want to get too far ahead of myself with things that will inevidibly change. Because this is my first map and i don't fully understand the foundry process yet, i kind of need a bit if guidance as to what to do and what i should be working on next... i have questions...

Is the forum lay-out correct?.. is there something i should change with my starting post?
should i have a large map image as well? or should i do it later?
should i just finish the text however i like? or do i wait and hope somebody comments on it?
I'm happy with how it's developing and i don't think it's too complicated... am i meeting the standards for a draft submission? or have i done something wrong and just don't know about it?
do i just keep plodding away... bumbling my way through this forum?
Cook Bob XIII
 
Posts: 79
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 8:50 am

Re: Cybercity: The Uprising

Postby MarshalNey on Sun Jul 18, 2010 11:49 pm

Bob XIII wrote:well comments are always good and so far they've been very helpful... i'm happy to work away at it with the graphics and code later. I just don't want to get too far ahead of myself with things that will inevidibly change. Because this is my first map and i don't fully understand the foundry process yet, i kind of need a bit if guidance as to what to do and what i should be working on next... i have questions...


Well, as a first-time mapmaker myself, I can certainly sympathize about feeling a little out to sea, so to speak. The Foundry process, despite numerous guidelines, is fairly flexible and open-ended. You won't get a ton of guidance unless you ask directly, and even then it might be slower than you'd like- it's run by volunteers after all. That said, if you're worried that your map got accidentally overlooked- which can happen- or just need some direct advice, post a comment like this last one. Sending out a PM to someone once in awhile can help too.

As for changes.... hmmm.... I want you to know that I honestly see good potential in this map idea, and some parts look pretty nice, but there are almost certainly going to be some things that you will have to change... inevitably, even :) No map, not even the ones put out by veterans, gets through the Foundry without some big changes. Thysenal and a few others I can think of start with really solid graphics, good concept and simple gameplay, but even then they sit in the forums for weeks awaiting community feedback.

In your case, you've got decent (and improving) graphics, decent concept and complex gameplay, so... like my map, this map will take some time. You seem to be receptive to comments and quick to respond, so as long as you're patient- like, 3-6 months patient- you'll very likely can see this map through to the Final Forge.

Bottom line, though, if you find making the map to be work and not fun, best to let it lie for awhile. Because the only really worthwhile return that you're going to get from making the map is the satisfaction of creating something that can be shared with others. So take it at your own pace, and if you really need comments, add a poll or something to get the community's attention (silly, but it sometimes works).

Bob XIII wrote:Is the forum lay-out correct?.. is there something i should change with my starting post?
should i have a large map image as well? or should i do it later?
should i just finish the text however i like? or do i wait and hope somebody comments on it?
I'm happy with how it's developing and i don't think it's too complicated... am i meeting the standards for a draft submission? or have i done something wrong and just don't know about it?


The starting post is an important way to keep community interest... nobody wants to read through pages and pages in order to know what's going on with your map. So, in a nutshell,
Keep your first post edited to include, succinctly, what a newcomer to your thread would need to know in order to completely understand your map.
That means updating the map itself, obviously, although for now you don't need to post both the large and small, just one or the other will do.
It also means showing the gameplay elements where possible on the map and explaining them further outside of the map if needed.
And most of all, get your concept across- what is your vision for this map? This can be done with a good title, a sentence or a paragraph, but let the community know what is motivating you to make the map, so we can help refine the idea rather than spout stuff that you have no interest in doing. In the Melting Pot forum, refining your concept should be your #1 goal. After all, it's hard to make something without a goal!

Here was my guess at your concept-
MarshalNey wrote:(1) Sci-fi dysutopia
(2) Large variety of bombardments
(3) Standard open gameplay


But that's only a guess. You're the one doing the lion's share of work, so it's up to you what sort of map idea will keep you interested in seeing it through.

I'll look at your design brief and see if there's any other advice that I can offer.

But as to your last question, definitely keep plunking away, and don't worry about 'bumbling', as long as you're civil everyone here is out to help each other... and sometimes even if you're not civil they'll still help ;)

EDIT: OKay, I just read your design brief and it explains quite a bit, some (or all) of that should go into your first post I think.
User avatar
Captain MarshalNey
 
Posts: 781
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 9:02 pm
Location: St. Louis, MO

Re: Cybercity: The Uprising

Postby Bob XIII on Fri Jul 23, 2010 8:39 am

cool... thanks for all your help. I'll have a new pic up in a couple of days... gonna have to find out how to add a poll?..
Cook Bob XIII
 
Posts: 79
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 8:50 am

Re: Cybercity: The Uprising

Postby TaCktiX on Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:25 pm

All you need to do is edit your first post and add it that way. The options should be fairly self-explanatory from there.

As for the map, I think it's almost ready for a design brief now that you've got most of the major details on the map. A couple of small critiques I can submit are these: the textures are distracting, dominating too much of the eye compared to the army circles and vital symbols to understanding the gameplay. Consider using more subtle ones or letting the overall background and symbols convey your cyberpunk theme instead. Gameplay, I have difficulty telling which bonus areas go to what bonus. This could be helped by changing the textures, or adding some small "overlay" transparency text in the area itself (Eastern Hemisphere does this, among others).
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class TaCktiX
 
Posts: 2392
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:24 pm
Location: Rapid City, SD

Re: Cybercity: The Uprising

Postby Industrial Helix on Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:03 pm

I think the symbols are too small to recognize.
Sketchblog [Update 07/25/11]: http://indyhelixsketch.blogspot.com/
Living in Japan [Update 07/17/11]: http://mirrorcountryih.blogspot.com/
Russian Revolution map for ConquerClub [07/20/11]: viewtopic.php?f=241&t=116575
User avatar
Cook Industrial Helix
 
Posts: 3462
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 6:49 pm
Location: Ohio

Re: Cybercity: The Uprising

Postby Bob XIII on Sat Jul 24, 2010 1:38 am

I think the symbols are too small to recognize.


...this is the max size for a small map image, so the large pic will be 10-15% larger... it'll make things heaps easier to see...
Cook Bob XIII
 
Posts: 79
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 8:50 am

Re: Cybercity: The Uprising

Postby AndyDufresne on Sat Jul 24, 2010 3:13 pm

Bob XIII wrote:
I think the symbols are too small to recognize.


...this is the max size for a small map image, so the large pic will be 10-15% larger... it'll make things heaps easier to see...

But you don't want to force people to play things on the big map, because the small map is illegible. I exclusively play on the small map, and if I had to play on a big map, or switch back and forth, I'd just avoid the map and play one of our other 160 maps.


--Andy
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class AndyDufresne
 
Posts: 24935
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 8:22 pm
Location: A Banana Palm in Zihuatanejo

Re: Cybercity: The Uprising

Postby Bob XIII on Sun Jul 25, 2010 1:47 am

ok... so... new icons, new textures, new font (colour coordinated), i'll colour coordinate the targetting markers to make them more clear also...

on a futher note... i have observed many maps that at first appear quite difficult, but are actually quite simple (eg WWII Gazala), maps that use heaps of text to explain the rules(eg Battle for Iraq, Age of Realms 3), maps with tiny or hard to recognize icons (operation drug war, supermax prison riot) , maps that don't have enough room for a 3 digit army number (um... almost all of them), maps with tiny font (hive, age of realms 3)...

point being, there are many extremes as to how a map can look and still get passed as playable... and if there are so many extremes than surely this map can be made to fit somewhere between them, but there has to of been some degree of flexibility allowed for all these other maps to exist...
Cook Bob XIII
 
Posts: 79
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 8:50 am

Re: Cybercity: The Uprising

Postby MarshalNey on Sun Jul 25, 2010 2:07 am

Bob XIII wrote:point being, there are many extremes as to how a map can look and still get passed as playable... and if there are so many extremes than surely this map can be made to fit somewhere between them, but there has to of been some degree of flexibility allowed for all these other maps to exist...


Indeed there is, and the aim I think of everyone here is not to restrict creativity, but work together to make something "playable" as you put it and still be what you want it to be. I've heard some people say that mapmaking is a privilege, but that's not really correct- it's more of a partnership, or an agreement. Both you and CC are offering services to the other towards accomplishing a mutual goal.

Helix mentioned the symbols because he has a lot of experience and he knows that they'll become a problem. Trust me, he's on your side ;)

To explain further, the symbols are pretty small and intricate; if I look closely I can tell them all apart from each other, but I have to scan the legend every time to identify it. In the end, players will want something easier... those other maps you mentioned don't have ten different icons to distinguish between.

Ten icons might work, but my gut tells me that once you get to gameplay you'll have to probably choose a couple of them to cut in order to make the map comprehensible to your average CCer.

If you want my opinion on the gameplay as it stands I'll give it a hard look-see, but in the meantime, what this map needs is probably some simplification.
User avatar
Captain MarshalNey
 
Posts: 781
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 9:02 pm
Location: St. Louis, MO

Re: Cybercity: The Uprising

Postby Bob XIII on Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:49 am

okay... so i'll have a new draft up in about a week... gonna make the textures a little more subtle so that the text is easier to read and i will also see about making the icons/unique territs more distinct...
Cook Bob XIII
 
Posts: 79
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 8:50 am

Re: Cybercity: The Uprising

Postby Bob XIII on Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:17 pm

sorry it's taking so long guys... I think i've got some kind of horse flu... still working away at it...
Cook Bob XIII
 
Posts: 79
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 8:50 am

Re: Cybercity: The Uprising

Postby MarshalNey on Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:56 pm

s'ok... I got sick too this week. :|

Best of luck getting better!
User avatar
Captain MarshalNey
 
Posts: 781
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 9:02 pm
Location: St. Louis, MO

Re: Cybercity: The Uprising

Postby 00iCon on Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:16 am

MarshalNey wrote:s'ok... I got sick too this week. :|

Best of luck getting better!

Everyone's sick!
I'm really impatiently waiting on this. The symbols don't have to be too complex, just basic shapes...
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class 00iCon
 
Posts: 257
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 4:42 am
Location: Sydney NSW

Re: Cybercity: The Uprising

Postby Victor Sullivan on Wed Aug 11, 2010 6:09 am

Just kinda jumpin' on the bandwagon, but this map looks and sounds amazing! And OMG I have 10 years of board game making experience too! No lie!
User avatar
Corporal Victor Sullivan
 
Posts: 6010
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:17 pm
Location: Columbus, OH

Re: Cybercity: The Uprising

Postby Bob XIII on Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:14 pm

Hey guys!!!! I'm back from the dead and ready to roll... If i haven't got a new draft up in 2 days... somebody call the police.
Cook Bob XIII
 
Posts: 79
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 8:50 am

Re: Cybercity: The Uprising

Postby 00iCon on Sat Aug 14, 2010 10:25 pm

ooh nice gold rank insignia!
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class 00iCon
 
Posts: 257
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 4:42 am
Location: Sydney NSW

Re: Cybercity: The Uprising

Postby Bob XIII on Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:48 pm

ooh nice gold rank insignia!


8-)
Cook Bob XIII
 
Posts: 79
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 8:50 am

Re: Cybercity: The Uprising

Postby Bob XIII on Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:10 am

okay... so i'm having some trouble sorting out new icons for the lasers and the landing sites... anyone have any suggestions... what should they look like?
Cook Bob XIII
 
Posts: 79
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 8:50 am

Re: Cybercity: The Uprising

Postby MarshalNey on Mon Aug 23, 2010 9:59 pm

What do you have so far? Can we see what you're thinking/doing?

I'm excited that this is still in progress, I was worried that it was abandonded.
User avatar
Captain MarshalNey
 
Posts: 781
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 9:02 pm
Location: St. Louis, MO

PreviousNext

Return to Melting Pot: Map Ideas

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users