Battle of the Bulge - CLOSED

[jak111]

Believe me, he's out there. For those who believe my role 100% and the special power I get.. He's out there...

well even if we didnt believe your role its a huge DUH this is the world war 2 game. who was the biggest threat in world war 2? hitler lol which if you now think i bet if there are third parties it might be a cult. like the people who were close to hitler and planned to kill him. that would work especially well in this game.

just a thought.

Really? Just a thought, but I'm leaving my vote on you. You are beginning to annoy me with all this skimming Clever. Like Leehar has stated, this is all stalling by you and others. The post you quoted was a reply to the post above it. But HEY, it's not helping the case you're trying to make on JG and I, so f*ck it, just make my post seem idiotic with your reply.

Whom does not see this stalling effort by the group? Like JG said. EVERYTIME we move onto something else, they come and b*tch about we either having enough for D1 (YOU CAN NEVER HAVE ENOUGH), not enough time, or no other cases. There are plenty of cases, just take a look around.

I know you guys are all up on JG because of some bs logic, but I'd appreciate some help with actually getting the information today.

Note to JG: No more quoting, replying, or acknowledging the posts that continue to either try to belittle what we're trying to do, or accuse us when this case has been done with 40 pages ago.

That note also goes to anyone who wishes to get something off of D1.

are you skimming jak? reread what i said. not one person has said what i said. not one person has said maybe third party is the people who wanted hitler dead. tell me where and what page please that someone said that. you and jgordon throw the word skimming around way to much. its annoying.

You continue to skim -.- It irritates me beyond words.

alright been trying to catch you guys move very fast here i wish there was posting limits. just joking that was tough to catch you all

prod recieved why i got one is beyond me so it took me a little more then a week to catch up sorry

alright on more important info

my top

sar just for pressuring me when i was just trying to read to catch you all not really on my list

thechuck for constant skimming at least a couple in the last 10 pages alone and a gut feeling

jgordon first a survivor does not agree with the concept of this game that well unless he is a survivor from one of the towns a civilian in other words. even if he is a survivor why would he claim so easily i know he explained it is just easier that way but it does make that much sense when you think about the battle of the bulge.

PMC just a gut feeling there not really a whole lot that i can add to what has been said about him


now a bit of my info on battle of the bulge one of the very few reason's i even thought about replacing on this game is that i am a huge WWII buff and the battle of the bulge is very interesting and i thought i might learn something maybe.

and i agree with whoever said that if we kill hitler it might help the mafia and this i will agree but we do not even know how big of a scope this game is hitler may not even be in this game it could just be the german general's we are looking for.

that all for now

This is what I was replying to Clever, once again I ask. Stop skimming. Where did I even say you did not say third party is the people who wanted hitler dead.. Wait WHAT? Where did you even say "Third party is the people who wanted Hitler dead" before that post? You're making no sense Clever.

First I reply to Gimili's post.
Second you quote me and try to belittle what I said. Adding a phrase of some cult wanting Hitler dead.
Third I reply with you continuing cases on JG and I and it being counter-productive, and if a case comes up that does not help you out you continue to WIFOM.
Fourth you reply with saying what I said to you about skimming and trying to put words into my mouth that make no sense to anyone to start with.

So I agree, it's annoying listening to you twist things against JG and I. I assume you either have a parrot role (with copying everyone) or a jester role (with all the WIFOM).

Fastposted by JG, mhmm I'm having a tough time ignoring Clever's WIFOM lately. His playing.. I'm not sure what it is, but it gets on my nerves when he tries to copy others posts with a little rewording, uses complete WIFOM, or tries to put words into peoples' mouths.

[jgordon1111]

Maybe clever is trying to reverse the tactic I used early on to see what happens I am not sure.

@ clever I say this,if you are trying that,there are alot of variables to doing it.

1. players tend to get pissed,so you better be able to stand what gets thrown back at you.

2. you better have a reasonable feel for the players in the game, research games they have played those where they are town and those where they are scum. DO NOT TRY IT BLINDLY.

3. this is the important one. Usually the players you focus on are not the targets. you are looking for the outside reactions and why they reacted that way.

If your not doing this. What are you doing?

[Some7hingCLEVER]

reply to the above two posts. i said that A THIRD PARTY IS THE PEOPLE AGAINST HITLER. he said hitler wouldnt even be in mafia. which i dont agree with. im not skimming at all i am reading fully.

how many times do i say something and not give credit to who said it ill usually start of with agree or something i know what your saying but your wrong but if someone besides you (jak) can make a post saying what your saying and to qoute all the post were i supposedly copy then i will correct myself but i dont copy and im sure.

[pmchugh]

Also Dazza, since you were so kind as to join us, would you like to oblige us by making a top 3 (other than your jg )
Same with you Clever, don't see one by you either, tho it's strange that you don't pop up in Pmc's post either

Ah whoops I wrote sg7 instead of clever. I actually listed sg7 twice cause of this. I meant to say dazza and clever.

Clever can you please provide your list of three and explain why you have not done so before now.

[Some7hingCLEVER]

Also Dazza, since you were so kind as to join us, would you like to oblige us by making a top 3 (other than your jg )
Same with you Clever, don't see one by you either, tho it's strange that you don't pop up in Pmc's post either

Ah whoops I wrote sg7 instead of clever. I actually listed sg7 twice cause of this. I meant to say dazza and clever.

Clever can you please provide your list of three and explain why you have not done so before now.

i thought throughout the day i had made it clear who i thought was scummy.

safari-for the reasons everyone is pretty much stated before
chapcrap-the reasons stated before.
jgordon-he claims to be survivor but is playing it wierd really dont know what to think.(im not saying that your scum just saying your on my suspect list.)

im sorry if these reasons arent good enough but im finding it hard to come up with original reasons when everything has already been said and repeating things is a big no no

[Leehar]

So your only originality came from wifom on cult 3rd party chasing hitler? (Which you probably only thought up because of watching a movie with Russel Crowe?)

[Leehar]

So your only originality came from wifom on cult 3rd party chasing hitler? (Which you probably only thought up because of watching a movie with Russel Crowe?)

Ebwop
Tom cruise

[jgordon1111]

Also Dazza, since you were so kind as to join us, would you like to oblige us by making a top 3 (other than your jg )
Same with you Clever, don't see one by you either, tho it's strange that you don't pop up in Pmc's post either

Ah whoops I wrote sg7 instead of clever. I actually listed sg7 twice cause of this. I meant to say dazza and clever.

Clever can you please provide your list of three and explain why you have not done so before now.

i thought throughout the day i had made it clear who i thought was scummy.

safari-for the reasons everyone is pretty much stated before
chapcrap-the reasons stated before.
jgordon-he claims to be survivor but is playing it wierd really dont know what to think.(im not saying that your scum just saying your on my suspect list.)

im sorry if these reasons arent good enough but im finding it hard to come up with original reasons when everything has already been said and repeating things is a big no no

A complete original post clever,now you are in the game all the way. And your reasons are adequate. And I understand the reason I am on your list

I do not subscribe to the CC (standard) role playing. I will play my role how I want to within the guidelines of not cheating.

Fast posted by leehar, easy on him leehar he is here more than some,and trying to be active. Keep playing clever.

[safariguy5]

So by that count (clever included), we're up to like 9 people who put me as scum (number 1 position on many of them too).

So where are the votes on me? I only counted 2 votes, why hasn't anyone else actually stuck to their list and voted me? Talk about stalling much or not sticking to your guns. Is it because you guys realize you have nothing on me? Or is it because you guys have "evidence" but it's weak at best? Or are some of you scum and just list me as a convenient way split the vote and get to night.

I'm all set to make a defense, but the only accusation so far has been an inactive vote. Which is standard, and something that several people have suggested before. I'd like to see an good case on what else you guys have on me. And don't give me the whole "suggesting a no lynch" crap, I made that vote well before deadline and stated my reasons why I wasn't supporting either the doom or the chap case.

[pmchugh]

So your only originality came from wifom on cult 3rd party chasing hitler? (Which you probably only thought up because of watching a movie with Russel Crowe?)

Ebwop
Tom cruise

Best use of EBWOP I've ever seen.

Well I think this exercise has been very interesting for gathering information, certainly more so that just lynching jgordon.. having said that I am not sure I like the results. Naturally in a game with a fair few scum the list is going to be biased against townies. In the most bizarre sense this makes me less willing to lynch those near the top.

On the other hand there is plenty of information to be found. Even if clevers play is a little more scummy recently then we still wont get much info out of a claim/lynch (plus he's clever, he is always scummy ) compared with saf.

With the deadline two days away I would be happy to go for saf and unless someone has a good case they can bring up in the next few hours then our time to force a claim/lynch will be too short.

[jgordon1111]

So your only originality came from wifom on cult 3rd party chasing hitler? (Which you probably only thought up because of watching a movie with Russel Crowe?)

Ebwop
Tom cruise

Best use of EBWOP I've ever seen.

Well I think this exercise has been very interesting for gathering information, certainly more so that just lynching jgordon.. having said that I am not sure I like the results. Naturally in a game with a fair few scum the list is going to be biased against townies. In the most bizarre sense this makes me less willing to lynch those near the top.

On the other hand there is plenty of information to be found. Even if clevers play is a little more scummy recently then we still wont get much info out of a claim/lynch (plus he's clever, he is always scummy ) compared with saf.

With the deadline two days away I would be happy to go for saf and unless someone has a good case they can bring up in the next few hours then our time to force a claim/lynch will be too short.

Saf said it, I dont have hard evidence on him,nor do I think others do either. His casual voting and in essence guiding votes isnt enough for me. Other than that all I have is one derail,and that could have been him saying what was on his mind instead of a ploy. He didnt do the bold or highlight or any of the other obvious moves some have. So if someone has a hard scum tell I missed step up.

[pmchugh]

So what do you propose we do jgordon? If I were a bookmaker then I would have you as the odds on favourite to get lynched at the moment.

[Some7hingCLEVER]

So your only originality came from wifom on cult 3rd party chasing hitler? (Which you probably only thought up because of watching a movie with Russel Crowe?)

Ebwop
Tom cruise

...valkyrie....its been on three days in a row..dont blame me

[jgordon1111]

So what do you propose we do jgordon? If I were a bookmaker then I would have you as the odds on favourite to get lynched at the moment.

I know this pmc

The ball is being put in Saf's court I dont like Bw's without evidence.

alot of people feel he is scum,but no one has hard evidence.

so is there a push for a claim just to get one, I am not a proponent of that ever on anyone.

The valuable time we were given was wasted by a few that continually kept intentionally redirecting the topic back to me and jak.

At this point the best option is to go back and count the times the cases were derailed and by who. Thats who you want to push a claim on.

So that again comes back to

chuck
dazza(most recent)
clever

[thechuck51]

At this point the best option is to go back and count the times the cases were derailed and by who. Thats who you want to push a claim on.

So that again comes back to

chuck
dazza(most recent)
clever

You are currently voting chap yes? I don't have a vote on anyone right now, please convince me to vote chap. Unless you plan to vote for me, dazza, or clever. If that is the case convince me to vote for one of them (though I don;t think you can convince me to vote for me ). There are only 2 days left in D1, if you cannot convince me, then I will again vote for you at the end of the day.

[pmchugh]

JG the problem with that was that you are listed by 8 people, that is almost half the game. It doesn't help create a case unless you can compound it with other evidence.

I get what you are saying about saf, but I deny that no legitimate points have been raised against him. He has been seemingly against the work of town for a large part of day 1. When I pointed out his attempts to derail any case he pointed to the inactives (who are unlikely to respond) and has since stated his intention to just go into night as we have enough claims/info for day 1. He has seemingly been deliberately counter productive, so there is a case on him, even if it isn't strong. Also he hasn't responded to some of the posts against him, which I find odd.

[jgordon1111]

JG the problem with that was that you are listed by 8 people, that is almost half the game. It doesn't help create a case unless you can compound it with other evidence.

I get what you are saying about saf, but I deny that no legitimate points have been raised against him. He has been seemingly against the work of town for a large part of day 1. When I pointed out his attempts to derail any case he pointed to the inactives (who are unlikely to respond) and has since stated his intention to just go into night as we have enough claims/info for day 1. He has seemingly been deliberately counter productive, so there is a case on him, even if it isn't strong. Also he hasn't responded to some of the posts against him, which I find odd.

PMC I am aware of how many I have had against me. I know that time is running out. And yes I have been watching Saf and he is aware of it, If you believe that the case is strong enough on Saf I will back you with the right evidence against him.

But there are other players out there that are a whole lot more scummy than Saf right now. they are still waiting for the right moment.

@ chuck there is a reason you are on that list,for now I will keep that to myself. dont get wound up just yet.

If we are nowhere tomorrow I will make a vote and list my reasons why. For now waiting and watching.

[everywhere116]

I don't see anything as of now to implicate Saf. His inactive hunting seems to be resultant of us exhausting every other lead. I wouldn't mind seeing the large number of people who listed him to present a case against him, although I'm not sure if we could get a lynch on him in time, even if the cases are convincing. The only other alternative I can see would be to lynch gordon or to go into the night without a lynch.

[/]

@ safari, challenge accepted!

Heya gimli, looking forward to some commentary.

dated april 28, following a post earlier on the page where gimli mentions he hasn't fully caught up yet.

I'm going to go with gimli. Promised reading and posting, hasn't done it.

unvote vote gimli

dated april 29 well, that was sure a loooong time gimli had taken to read up, huh?

I'm going to go with gimli. Promised reading and posting, hasn't done it.

unvote vote gimli

Personally, I'm going to give him until D2, because he has a LOT to read up on, so it can be frustrating catching up.

Frankly, it's not a particularly strong lead, but honestly, I do think we have enough information from Day 1, I'm not keen on forcing more claims, especially since I don't see particularly compelling cases out there.

sort of a "eh, I don't really care where this goes", a pretty clear departure of your earlier attitude

Speaking of which jgordon, didn't you suggest we pressure a submariner? Why are you still on this Doom case when we clearly have submariners to pressure? What's the point in suggesting a course of action if you're not going to follow up on it?

indeed, why don't we put our money where our mouth is, right? if we vote, we should really mean it.

As I've said before, bandwagon voting is necessary Day 1 because we aren't going to be able to generate great cases against someone unless someone does something really scummy. I've always operated under the assumption that if you give a reason, that shouldn't warrant bandwagonning on Day 1.

i'm not entirely sure what this post means without a bit of clarification on the second sentence, but you essentailly agree bandwaggons are nessarary and we shouldn't waste our moves, right? this is a bit contradictory to your willingness to settle for a no lynch

I'm not pushing crap. All I'm doing is making a case since pmc pushed me to do so. If you can't tell already, I'm simply throwing a name out there so nobody forgets about it later.

why did you need to be pushed to find scum?

What role you get should dictate how you play the game (to an extent).

indeed, for example, when I get a mafia role, I might not want to draw attention, I might become complacent, after all, what can I do? I don't want to draw suspicion, I know who scum is, I don't want to make them suspicious to town, who can I pressure?

Well I'll put my list then.

gimli
sg7
Sparticus

All because they haven't posted much. I'm not really seeing the case on chap or doom, I don't believe there's much merit on any cases currently, and jak and jgordon have made claims that can be reexamined in future days.

Right! inactives, they are always scummy, it's really such an easy answer.

I've already said multiple times that I think with the two claims we have, we risk outting another town power role, and I think we have enough leads that we have plenty to pursue on Day 2. Like I said, if they were 2 VT claims, then pursuing another case might make sense, but I do not believe we should get another case out there now, especially seeing how the existing cases lack concrete evidence in my opinion. Matters of opinion regarding the meaning or lack of meaning behind certain posts doesn't constitute strong enough evidence by their own to warrant voting by me.

I don't understand this logic, you say no cases are strong enough to pursue, but you say we have plenty of leads for day 2, what is going to happen by changing the title from 1 to 2? We shouldn't count on an easy follow the cop game, we can't magically change our current data, we have what we have. But you want to wait, just because we possibly can't protect everyone with the doc (allegedly) out, we aren't going to grow a new doc tomorrow, a claim is still a claim, an exposed power role is still an exposed power role, the only thing we gain with a no lynch is another night of war and more bodies to sort out.

on a side note, I came across a post you made early on that really makes me doubt you are mafia when I remembered it
viewtopic.php?f=213&t=165179&p=3704729&hilit=Battle+of+the+Bulge#p3704729
I don't see you as the kind of guy who would screw over your teammates by making them lose your role as mafia just to prove a point, I suppose the same could be said for a town power role, but it's obviously very stressful, and I really shouldn't WIFOM from it..

[pmchugh]

unvote vote saf for emphasis. If we don't cast votes now today will end in a no lunch.

[Some7hingCLEVER]

so my plans cancelled ill be here this weekend. wooo. so i was about to go for a read through of saf but / already did thanks bud. i now think he is a better lynch than jgordon. but on that side note that is actually a move used by mafia to try to throw town off his game. anyway i will unvote vote safari as i promised JG.

[Ragian]

I don't have a gut feeling about saf, and even though the quotes just presented took time to compile, I don't even feel they incriminate him that much. I went submarines-hunting too earlier in the game, but I think it's taking it too far to attack the replacements.

@pmc, deadline is May 7, yeah?

Fastposted by CLEVER that disagrees.

[Some7hingCLEVER]

I don't have a gut feeling about saf, and even though the quotes just presented took time to compile, I don't even feel they incriminate him that much. I went submarines-hunting too earlier in the game, but I think it's taking it too far to attack the replacements.

@pmc, deadline is May 7, yeah?

Fastposted by CLEVER that disagrees.

ya i think i pointed that out. but really what other cases on day one? this is the best case we have so far. i dont think i said it was an amazing case just the best one we have and with time coming to an end i needed to make a decision.

[Ragian]

I don't have a gut feeling about saf, and even though the quotes just presented took time to compile, I don't even feel they incriminate him that much. I went submarines-hunting too earlier in the game, but I think it's taking it too far to attack the replacements.

@pmc, deadline is May 7, yeah?

Fastposted by CLEVER that disagrees.

ya i think i pointed that out. but really what other cases on day one? this is the best case we have so far. i dont think i said it was an amazing case just the best one we have and with time coming to an end i needed to make a decision.

I'm not saying that there are better case per say. I'm just afraid that saf flips town. We know jg won't. (That's not saying that I won't hunt scum, but merely that I see no cases where I'm certain that the lynchee flips scum and that I can't present a case against anyone at this point. I bet at least two players needed this parenthesis.)

[Some7hingCLEVER]

I don't have a gut feeling about saf, and even though the quotes just presented took time to compile, I don't even feel they incriminate him that much. I went submarines-hunting too earlier in the game, but I think it's taking it too far to attack the replacements.

@pmc, deadline is May 7, yeah?

Fastposted by CLEVER that disagrees.

ya i think i pointed that out. but really what other cases on day one? this is the best case we have so far. i dont think i said it was an amazing case just the best one we have and with time coming to an end i needed to make a decision.

I'm not saying that there are better case per say. I'm just afraid that saf flips town. We know jg won't. (That's not saying that I won't hunt scum, but merely that I see no cases where I'm certain that the lynchee flips scum and that I can't present a case against anyone at this point. I bet at least two players needed this parenthesis.)

i see your point and know exactly what you mean but do you honestly believe we will find scum on day one? i think its pretty damn hard.