The Tick Mafia - JUSTICE PREVAILS!

[TrafalgarLaw01]

So Strike is scum because he visited Son!c N1, and there was only one death N1 as opposed to N2? What a BS argument. 2nd death could be anything but that. It's highly unlikely that the doc got it right out of 18 N1.

I'm not in on the Strike case.

Strike visited Sonic to kill him and the doc saved him before he (the doc) was killed. Why is this so unlikely?

Im with Charle here. "Strike visited Sonic to kill him and the doc saved him before he (the doc) was killed." Afterall This is coming from the reïncarnated version of the Doc...c'mon what more do you want? Now i know Charle can"t say anything about what happened to Doc that night but surely he could know if the possibility exist just "yes or no" like he is saying right now (doc saving me after a strike on me in N1 -sorry for the word choice Strike- and he says it's possible "Why is this so unlikely?"

Doc said he believed i was cop D1 so he would have protected me and im still alive. Thats a good theory right?
"Each night, a Doctor chooses a player to protect." (this comes straith out the mafia wiki page "wiki.mafiascum" so don't tell me it's not possible)

I'll comment first this, then I'll read more carefully your scenarios but want to clarify some stuff.

CHARLE IS NOT A REINCARNATED VERSION OF DOC CHARLE - He hasnt explicity said (Cause he can't it was forbidden my mod to disclose his actions as doc). he is maching echo of other people, we don't know his objective, could be mafia trying to get people to follow a ake lead.

it is said can protect a player each night, but it is never said if he can protect a player the night Doc its killed. As far as I understand the action will not go through if u are killed. I would like a proof where it is possible to consider that theory. I haven't played much online but in rl i know that if doc is killed he cannot save anyone, excepet for himself.

FP by ew

Agree with his last post

[TrafalgarLaw01]

FP Sonic. Headache today, so not going into that post except mentioning that Strike and Charle seem to have opposite alignments.

For EW

Before I state my case, is it possible even though the doc died on N1, that his protection worked before he died?

-Also sorry for delay response and I'm trying to catch up. Over the weekend had a funeral and someone in my family got me with a head cold. Must be going around if Son!c had it too.

it does

I haven't found a place where states this is possible, could you show it to me?

on mafia.gg it worked like this, but I guess it depends on the order of operations. In my real-life mafia-like games, mafia was always the last one to kill. Thus Doc resolved first. Perhaps this is an @Dega question considering it's about the mechanics of our game.

In elementary, you coudl see it when Doc protected himself - mafia kill goes first then by definition this wouldnt be possible, but there it was both allowed and possible.

Ok I had a superlong day, but managed to rea you guys, but will need a re-read. For now I believe Pix Claim as Tracker. Strike not sure about the role he is soft claiming, will have to look what it is.
Saying all that swang stikes as quite scummy, with his all in attack. And remebered someone said Fusi did ignore the swang wagon.
Hopefully I'll get a better read with a rested head.

Swang's story does make sense, we don't know who Doc protected (and this is why any Charle opinion on this is a heated one). I dont think maf has 2 NKs though, at least not every night.

I also totally missed the vigi soft despite reading over it, so much for "experienced player"

The smoking gun for that ability is that i could use it as an investigate and if i die, that person is scum.

Correct me if I'm wrong: you are a phantom-like role that dies upon visiting scum. Meaning you've had 2 nights on which you've not visited scum, meaning there's 2 confirmed townies in there unless mafia has a re-director?

This are the the two quotes, that get my attention. Maybe you don't say it was like it, but you give fuel to the theory. This is what concerns me

As for u with Sonic - I know u said he is town, and I actually don't blame you on pointing out his nonsense, as he keeps coming after you, so its more like you got drown in it, so not really important this point.

Ok, I understand. I mistook "going after Sonic" as "trying to get Sonic lynched". I still disagree, but alas.

As for Strike, I'm afraid we are indeed going to need more of a claim. I'm very confused about how to take Charle's statement and I am inclined to agree with Traf here, but if Strike flips mafia then any push on Charle will immediately gain momentum to divert from Strike. I'm seeing 1 between Charle and Strike right now, and I think Strike's role checks meta-information about another person's role. I am thinking he is a Bishop, or something similar:

Each night, may visit a player and discover sins they commit that night

If the sinner kills another, they will be guilty of Wrath

If the sinner converts or is converted, they will be guilty of Heresy

If the sinner blocks another’s night action or has their night action blocked, they will be guilty of Sloth

Only successful sins will be discovered and brought to the light

Hmmm I played a couple of mafia.gg games, but never that situation happened, so I cannot say.
It doesnt really make sense to me. The games in rl i've played mafia always state its target first, then other roles, so if doc choosed right he saved someone including himself. That makes sense to me the Doc go after the stike was done and "heal" the people shot or whatever, but here how would it work - Mafia goes to kill Sonic - Doc protects him - the he goes back to his home and the mafia attac him?

[SoN!c]

Yes Charle can't say anything about Doc. That is true. But let's suppose he is town. Just for the sake of argument. That would be a "townsman with extra info". Right? . He can't say anything about it but he still knows it.. . So as knowing it - it would be fairly stupid for him if he votes against somebody he knows is town from his old version..

And about the pivot:

Not sure who to pivot to when this loses momentum. I'm thinking Swang or Charle, but not sure which. Swang seems more scummish but I did directly claim that if Strike is town, Charle is very very likely scum.

Why pivoting already in advance? It's like you wanna see this Strike thing lose momentum.

[degaston]

For those who are curious, I generally followed these guides for setup and resolving night actions.
System for Theme Flavor Unbreakability
Reasonable Action Resolution
Though I reserve the right to do things my own way if I think it makes more sense.

And to quickly answer the question at hand, in every game I've been a part of, being killed does not prevent you from performing your night action.

[Extreme Ways]

For those who are curious, I generally followed these guides for setup and resolving night actions.
System for Theme Flavor Unbreakability
Reasonable Action Resolution
Though I reserve the right to do things my own way if I think it makes more sense.

Thanks. I'm probably fastposted, but from my interpretation this means that a Doc can save someone on the night they are targeted, there is no "priority" in actions there is only a "how do they interact".

[Charle]

I can definitely confirm that I am not scum and townie. I think it will be unfair to replace a town role with scum by the mod.

[Extreme Ways]

I can definitely confirm that I am not scum and townie. I think it will be unfair to replace a town role with scum by the mod.

You hadn't learned any info about scum from your role, so you were allowed to play town. But you also hadnt learned anything about town roles,so you could also play scum. It would be really unfair to replace a scum role with town by mod, then you know all the scummies.

I'm purely basing my opinion off the fact that you are going so hard against strike.

[SoN!c]

Let's stay united as Town guys and let's stay on subject? (Strike)

Also as posted a few times already; please do not answer questions for suspects on important moments. Then you need to pose the same question 5 times before you get the answer from the one you wanna hear.

Like now presenting the "Bishop" theory on Strike.

Just for argument sake, if Strike is scum - and a bit cornered not knowing what to say - you just saved his ass and all he has to do is say "That's right mate, Im Bishop". And Thats that

[TrafalgarLaw01]

For those who are curious, I generally followed these guides for setup and resolving night actions.
System for Theme Flavor Unbreakability
Reasonable Action Resolution
Though I reserve the right to do things my own way if I think it makes more sense.

And to quickly answer the question at hand, in every game I've been a part of, being killed does not prevent you from performing your night action.

Thanks, but I don't think it entirely solves the discussion as the case pointed out it's not listed but I assume would be something like:
Player A Doctor (Charle) - Player B - Target (Sonic), Player C Gunshot 1 (The one who killed Charle) - Player D - Mafia 2 (Strike) and Player E Tracker(Pixar)

Player A protects Player B, Player C Shoots Player A, Player D Shoots player B, Player E followed Player D.
the problem here is Can Player A resolve if he was Shoot by player C? its like the example with the roleblocker I believe. I still think it would not resolve. But I am not sure.

FP by Sonic

[TrafalgarLaw01]

I can definitely confirm that I am not scum and townie. I think it will be unfair to replace a town role with scum by the mod.

You hadn't learned any info about scum from your role, so you were allowed to play town. But you also hadnt learned anything about town roles,so you could also play scum. It would be really unfair to replace a scum role with town by mod, then you know all the scummies.

I'm purely basing my opinion off the fact that you are going so hard against strike.

Agree he dindt have any info beside who Doc visited N1, so he can be any role. Only a scum could not go back to play town, but a town with no info can fit any role

[TrafalgarLaw01]

Yes Charle can't say anything about Doc. That is true. But let's suppose he is town. Just for the sake of argument. That would be a "townsman with extra info". Right? . He can't say anything about it but he still knows it.. . So as knowing it - it would be fairly stupid for him if he votes against somebody he knows is town from his old version..

And about the pivot:

Not sure who to pivot to when this loses momentum. I'm thinking Swang or Charle, but not sure which. Swang seems more scummish but I did directly claim that if Strike is town, Charle is very very likely scum.

Why pivoting already in advance? It's like you wanna see this Strike thing lose momentum.

Lets suppose he is town - what extra info does he has - He didnt knew anyones role - So he can vote for whoever he feels, he thought Loose and Strike where Scum and Loose was town and Pixar very likely is town as well. Doc charle had 0 info on other players.

[TrafalgarLaw01]

Having said all that - as I pointe in my long post - I think we need Strike to come clear and say everything about his role and what he was doing visiting Sonic N1

[Extreme Ways]

For those who are curious, I generally followed these guides for setup and resolving night actions.
System for Theme Flavor Unbreakability
Reasonable Action Resolution
Though I reserve the right to do things my own way if I think it makes more sense.

And to quickly answer the question at hand, in every game I've been a part of, being killed does not prevent you from performing your night action.

Thanks, but I don't think it entirely solves the discussion as the case pointed out it's not listed but I assume would be something like:
Player A Doctor (Charle) - Player B - Target (Sonic), Player C Gunshot 1 (The one who killed Charle) - Player D - Mafia 2 (Strike) and Player E Tracker(Pixar)

Player A protects Player B, Player C Shoots Player A, Player D Shoots player B, Player E followed Player D.
the problem here is Can Player A resolve if he was Shoot by player C? its like the example with the roleblocker I believe. I still think it would not resolve. But I am not sure.

FP by Sonic

This paragraph:

To determine whether an effect occurs using RAR, you create a list of actions. First, list any actions that might (if they resolved) cause that effect. Then, add any actions that might (if they resolved) interfere with the actions you've already listed to the list. Keep going until you run out of actions to add, with the proviso that once an action has been placed on the list, it can't be placed there a second time (this guarantees that you will eventually stop listing actions). Once you finish making the list, resolve all the actions you've listed in the reverse order that you listed them; if that list of actions would produce the effect you're looking at, then it occurs, otherwise it doesn't.

The effect we are looking at is "Sonic dies". We add the action that might cause that effect:
1) Scum kills Sonic

Then, we add any action that might interfere with this list.
2) Doc saves Sonic

Tracker does not interfere with Doc action, we don't know whether a roleblocker or redirect is active. Doesn't matter either, we resolve this in opposite order: Doc saves sonic, then scum kills sonic. Whether Doc dies is a completely separate effect.

[SoN!c]

Yes Charle can't say anything about Doc. That is true. But let's suppose he is town. Just for the sake of argument. That would be a "townsman with extra info". Right? . He can't say anything about it but he still knows it.. . So as knowing it - it would be fairly stupid for him if he votes against somebody he knows is town from his old version..

And about the pivot:

Not sure who to pivot to when this loses momentum. I'm thinking Swang or Charle, but not sure which. Swang seems more scummish but I did directly claim that if Strike is town, Charle is very very likely scum.

Why pivoting already in advance? It's like you wanna see this Strike thing lose momentum.

Lets suppose he is town - what extra info does he has - He didnt knew anyones role - So he can vote for whoever he feels, he thought Loose and Strike where Scum and Loose was town and Pixar very likely is town as well. Doc charle had 0 info on other players.

He knew his own role and would still know who Doc protected that night..he just can't say it. Im pretty sure that person is still alive and "New Charle" is just following Swangs theory. Like Swang is following Pixar.

EW wants to divert away from Strike asap. I don't know why. A bit earlier EW was still confirming and pointing out Strike (with 5 strong points) to saying there was more going on with Strike, but now we get to just needing 2 votes he wants to steer away from Strike as fast he can trying to steer on Charle or Swang.

[TrafalgarLaw01]

For those who are curious, I generally followed these guides for setup and resolving night actions.
System for Theme Flavor Unbreakability
Reasonable Action Resolution
Though I reserve the right to do things my own way if I think it makes more sense.

And to quickly answer the question at hand, in every game I've been a part of, being killed does not prevent you from performing your night action.

Thanks, but I don't think it entirely solves the discussion as the case pointed out it's not listed but I assume would be something like:
Player A Doctor (Charle) - Player B - Target (Sonic), Player C Gunshot 1 (The one who killed Charle) - Player D - Mafia 2 (Strike) and Player E Tracker(Pixar)

Player A protects Player B, Player C Shoots Player A, Player D Shoots player B, Player E followed Player D.
the problem here is Can Player A resolve if he was Shoot by player C? its like the example with the roleblocker I believe. I still think it would not resolve. But I am not sure.

FP by Sonic

This paragraph:

To determine whether an effect occurs using RAR, you create a list of actions. First, list any actions that might (if they resolved) cause that effect. Then, add any actions that might (if they resolved) interfere with the actions you've already listed to the list. Keep going until you run out of actions to add, with the proviso that once an action has been placed on the list, it can't be placed there a second time (this guarantees that you will eventually stop listing actions). Once you finish making the list, resolve all the actions you've listed in the reverse order that you listed them; if that list of actions would produce the effect you're looking at, then it occurs, otherwise it doesn't.

The effect we are looking at is "Sonic dies". We add the action that might cause that effect:
1) Scum kills Sonic

Then, we add any action that might interfere with this list.
2) Doc saves Sonic

Tracker does not interfere with Doc action, we don't know whether a roleblocker or redirect is active. Doesn't matter either, we resolve this in opposite order: Doc saves sonic, then scum kills sonic. Whether Doc dies is a completely separate effect.

Agree Tracker does not interfere in any outcome. I was pointing the playes associeted with the case. But yeah Pixar is completely irrelevant there.

Can Doc save Sonic if Doc is killed, tho. That would interefere with the effect "Sonic dies".
But again not sure. So we need strike to comment

FP by sonic

[TrafalgarLaw01]

Yes Charle can't say anything about Doc. That is true. But let's suppose he is town. Just for the sake of argument. That would be a "townsman with extra info". Right? . He can't say anything about it but he still knows it.. . So as knowing it - it would be fairly stupid for him if he votes against somebody he knows is town from his old version..

And about the pivot:

Not sure who to pivot to when this loses momentum. I'm thinking Swang or Charle, but not sure which. Swang seems more scummish but I did directly claim that if Strike is town, Charle is very very likely scum.

Why pivoting already in advance? It's like you wanna see this Strike thing lose momentum.

Lets suppose he is town - what extra info does he has - He didnt knew anyones role - So he can vote for whoever he feels, he thought Loose and Strike where Scum and Loose was town and Pixar very likely is town as well. Doc charle had 0 info on other players.

He knew his own role and would still know who Doc protected that night..he just can't say it. Im pretty sure that person is still alive and "New Charle" is just following Swangs theory. Like Swang is following Pixar.

EW wants to divert away from Strike asap. I don't know why. A bit earlier EW was still confirming and pointing out Strike (with 5 strong points) to saying there was more going on with Strike, but now we get to just needing 2 votes he wants to steer away from Strike as fast he can trying to steer on Charle or Swang.

But you all say it like its certain Doc Charle protected you N1, it might be but also might not be. Lets asume he did protected you and that you havent claim die fledermaus so we all would think you are mafia. Doc has 0 info N1, i have seen many cases where doc protected a mafia n1 cause he does not have info.
Btw I think not all 5 points of swang ate strong and its scummy

[SoN!c]

Let's just hear Strike first and see who comes to his defence (as would be expected when he is scum). Pixar's case is pretty solid and Strike already confirmed Pixars observations to be true.

Strike's story already ratlles a bit just like Raz his story started to rattle real fast.

[Extreme Ways]

For those who are curious, I generally followed these guides for setup and resolving night actions.
System for Theme Flavor Unbreakability
Reasonable Action Resolution
Though I reserve the right to do things my own way if I think it makes more sense.

And to quickly answer the question at hand, in every game I've been a part of, being killed does not prevent you from performing your night action.

Thanks, but I don't think it entirely solves the discussion as the case pointed out it's not listed but I assume would be something like:
Player A Doctor (Charle) - Player B - Target (Sonic), Player C Gunshot 1 (The one who killed Charle) - Player D - Mafia 2 (Strike) and Player E Tracker(Pixar)

Player A protects Player B, Player C Shoots Player A, Player D Shoots player B, Player E followed Player D.
the problem here is Can Player A resolve if he was Shoot by player C? its like the example with the roleblocker I believe. I still think it would not resolve. But I am not sure.

FP by Sonic

This paragraph:

To determine whether an effect occurs using RAR, you create a list of actions. First, list any actions that might (if they resolved) cause that effect. Then, add any actions that might (if they resolved) interfere with the actions you've already listed to the list. Keep going until you run out of actions to add, with the proviso that once an action has been placed on the list, it can't be placed there a second time (this guarantees that you will eventually stop listing actions). Once you finish making the list, resolve all the actions you've listed in the reverse order that you listed them; if that list of actions would produce the effect you're looking at, then it occurs, otherwise it doesn't.

The effect we are looking at is "Sonic dies". We add the action that might cause that effect:
1) Scum kills Sonic

Then, we add any action that might interfere with this list.
2) Doc saves Sonic

Tracker does not interfere with Doc action, we don't know whether a roleblocker or redirect is active. Doesn't matter either, we resolve this in opposite order: Doc saves sonic, then scum kills sonic. Whether Doc dies is a completely separate effect.

Agree Tracker does not interfere in any outcome. I was pointing the playes associeted with the case. But yeah Pixar is completely irrelevant there.

Can Doc save Sonic if Doc is killed, tho. That would interefere with the effect "Sonic dies".
But again not sure. So we need strike to comment

FP by sonic

Doc dying is not an action, but an effect. Agree that we need strike to comment.

@Sonic idk who you trust since your scummy to chummy list was a joke answer to a serious question, but look at that list and see who is not voting for strike on it, or even just confused why people are voting for strike on it.

I am not voting yet because I want a response from strike, but I dont believe that his response will see him lynched.

FP Sonic:
I have no clue why strike's story rattles a bit. It really doesnt.

[strike wolf]

Vote Count:

strike wolf : 5 (*Pixar*, swang918, SoN!c, Charle, PepeAtila)
Extreme Ways : 1 (traffic133)
General Bax : 1 (DirtyDishSoap)

No Vote : 6 (Darin44, Extreme Ways, General Bax, Ragian, strike wolf, TrafalgarLaw01)

13 Alive, 7 votes needed to lynch

Okay. Didn't realize I was at L-2. Claim time.

I am The Doorman-Citizen Role Blocker.

I know Son!c couldn't have killed Charle N1 because he would have been unable to perform any action N1 and Pixar confirmed that I visited him. Pixar got no result from Tracking Ragian because I blocked him from performing it.

Beyond probability of possible role claims. It can also be safely said that Pix did not perform any of the 3 kills last night.

@Traf: Docs action will always go through the night their killed unless they are otherwised blocked. I forget the exact hierarchy of roles in terms of order but it usually went something like

1. Roles that directly interfere with the performance of other roles. Role blocker, Busdriver, etc.
2. Protective roles.
3. Night kills.
4. Investigative roles.

I've not read up yet. May be a while. Got rear ended a few days ago, turns out my car isnt driveable and now trying to deal with insurance company and get a rental car. Only had a bit of time now because I'm waiting on a call back.

[Extreme Ways]

Damn all of you need to have less things happen IRL. Funerals, surgeries, rear-ends...

[Extreme Ways]

@Strike, do you only block the person you are visiting or any and all people at that location? I have my own opinions, but it's worth it to get this confirmed.

[TrafalgarLaw01]

Vote Count:

strike wolf : 5 (*Pixar*, swang918, SoN!c, Charle, PepeAtila)
Extreme Ways : 1 (traffic133)
General Bax : 1 (DirtyDishSoap)

No Vote : 6 (Darin44, Extreme Ways, General Bax, Ragian, strike wolf, TrafalgarLaw01)

13 Alive, 7 votes needed to lynch

Okay. Didn't realize I was at L-2. Claim time.

I am The Doorman-Citizen Role Blocker.

I know Son!c couldn't have killed Charle N1 because he would have been unable to perform any action N1 and Pixar confirmed that I visited him. Pixar got no result from Tracking Ragian because I blocked him from performing it.

Beyond probability of possible role claims. It can also be safely said that Pix did not perform any of the 3 kills last night.

@Traf: Docs action will always go through the night their killed unless they are otherwised blocked. I forget the exact hierarchy of roles in terms of order but it usually went something like

1. Roles that directly interfere with the performance of other roles. Role blocker, Busdriver, etc.
2. Protective roles.
3. Night kills.
4. Investigative roles.

I've not read up yet. May be a while. Got rear ended a few days ago, turns out my car isnt driveable and now trying to deal with insurance company and get a rental car. Only had a bit of time now because I'm waiting on a call back.

Ok, then As two players that have way more experience confirm it could have happened it is worth considering. I still find it unlikely mafia targeted both doc and the doc's target. but its a possibility then.

May I ask why you blocked Rag N2?

[*Pixar*]

I will confirm visiting Son!c N1. I visited Pixar N2. Curious why you would track Rag when Raz's reveal all but cleared him as town.

That said, Tracker is almost always a town role and the fact that he was correct on my N1 visit means that he is probably telling the truth.

Interesting that he said he visited Ragian now on N2. But a couple days ago he said he visited me. I CALL BULLSHIT, lynch the man!

[*Pixar*]

I will confirm visiting Son!c N1. I visited Pixar N2. Curious why you would track Rag when Raz's reveal all but cleared him as town.

That said, Tracker is almost always a town role and the fact that he was correct on my N1 visit means that he is probably telling the truth.

Interesting that he said he visited Ragian now on N2. But a couple days ago he said he visited me. I CALL BULLSHIT, lynch the man!

Wait nevermind I think we both read that wrong Traf. He blocked me on N2 not Ragian

[TrafalgarLaw01]

No wait. I gottit wrong you got no info on rag cause he blocked you not rag