Too many Items Mafia (4/14) Endgame: I Confess

[jonty125]

great lead on jonty.

I wouldn't call it great, you are assuming there is only one role stealer/gifter.

[zimmah]

great lead on jonty.

I wouldn't call it great, you are assuming there is only one role stealer/gifter.

i don't buy your claim either, did we ever had double votes in the first place?

[jonty125]

Yes, we did.

show: Day Two

show: Day Three

[zimmah]

ok, so we have. that doesn't prove you are the one though.

[jonty125]

No counterclaims.+

[zimmah]

No counterclaims.+

not everyone posted yet.

[/]

Geeze, this conversation is cynical as heck! lol.

My thoughts, could be a decent lead under certain conditions.
however, I have a reasonable assumption as to why the bat changed hands that I would keep to myself for the moment.
first I would ask all remaining townies this; if you have lost, or can confirm the unnatural loss of any item, please state, if not the item, the night or day said item was lost to you.

[samgrossy]

Yes, we did.

show: Day Two

show: Day Three

Could those votes have been from a person that was silenced? I always thought that the D2 ??? vote was from IB who couldn't speak, but just PM'd his vote to the mod.

[Campin_Killer]

Yes, we did.

show: Day Two

show: Day Three

Could those votes have been from a person that was silenced? I always thought that the D2 ??? vote was from IB who couldn't speak, but just PM'd his vote to the mod.

If you're silenced you can vote in thread, but say nothing else

[zimmah]

actually you can post 4 times, unless there is another person or item that can silence.

[Iron Butterfly]

Yes, we did.

show: Day Two

show: Day Three

Could those votes have been from a person that was silenced? I always thought that the D2 ??? vote was from IB who couldn't speak, but just PM'd his vote to the mod.

No. When silenced I was able to vote as normal. I did not vote because it would be easy to challenge and I would not have been able to defend myself.

[spiesr]

who has the WTs now? Were they "magicked" away last night?

I sent mine away. (It actually wasn't until slightly after the day started becuase the mod was lazy about telling me what to do with it.) Would you like me to say who I gave it too, or do you want to to say so himself?

Yes, we did.

show: Day Two

show: Day Three

It is interesting that in neither of those cases were you utilizing your actual vote. Is there any reason you choose to just use the secret vote at that time? It seems a little fishy to me, like you might have been trying to avoid any attention.

[crazymilkshake5]

Offical Vote Count

jonty-spiser, zimmah, pershy-L3
spiser-Samgrossy

[jonty125]

who has the WTs now? Were they "magicked" away last night?

I sent mine away. (It actually wasn't until slightly after the day started becuase the mod was lazy about telling me what to do with it.) Would you like me to say who I gave it too, or do you want to to say so himself?

Yes, we did.

show: Day Two

show: Day Three

It is interesting that in neither of those cases were you utilizing your actual vote. Is there any reason you choose to just use the secret vote at that time? It seems a little fishy to me, like you might have been trying to avoid any attention.

The vote is unremovable, so when I unvoted vodean my vote secret vote stayed. On epi, I thought I had voted him, but I had only used my secret vote.

[pershy]

I think we still have to find out for sure about jonty. More votes?

[/]

I think we still have to find out for sure about jonty. More votes?

by "find out more" fo you mean "lynch"?

[Iron Butterfly]

I recieved the bat at he end of the night, probably after the attack, but before daybreak.

Alright, then I think I have a lead we can work with. I am going to have to role-claim to explain it though.
I am a magician. I have the power (which is not derived from an item) to make someone's item "disappear." I was not told what happens to said item when I do this, but I think I have been able to figure it out from the information I have heard.
Night 1 I targeted Yomiel. Night 2 Shield. Night 3 Jonty.
Based on info regarding Yomiel's walkie talkie, specifically how Iron Butterfly/Perhsy received it the day immediately following the night I made it "disappear", I think that items I make "disappear" are simply reassigned to another player. If this is the case, then there is, in my opinion, a strong chance that the bat which Zimmah received belonged to Jonty. Now, if we think the the bat (which zimmah says is used to silence people) was a scum item then it stands to reason the Jonty is probably scum.
So, I'll throw out a my Vote Jonty. While I am at it I will also toss an FOS over to samgrossy on the off chance that my depowering of shield has some sort of connection to the absences of kills beginning night 2.

Your post bothers me. I gave you the Walkie Talkie because I trusted Pershy to investigate more. I was surprised you turned it in so quickly. I believe you did so because you knew it could only get you in trouble if you said the wrong thing.(My opinion)

Your logic is very flawed in making a case against jonty. You claim to be a magician, which could just as easily be a thief. No one would be able to tell the difference if you are caught. You claim you made jontys item disappear, which must be a baseball bat because Zimmah received one. If there were just the three of you you might be on to something. Last night we had what 11 plyers? Unless you can tell us what other roles are out there and who can do what your theory is worthless and pure WIFOM.

Samgrossy made some great observations and I am surprised folks do not give him more credit. They were some of the reasons both Vodean and Spiesr were on the top of my list.

I told Pershy several times to keep an eye on Spiesr, which is why I gave him my half of the WT and why I let Pershy keep his.vote spiesr

Pershy I would like you to explain why you feel jonty is more guilty then Spiesr. Spiesr calls himself a magician but it just sounds like a thief.

[/]

I agree that spiesr is the more suspect one in my opinion.
My personal guess: jonty used the money to hammer epitath, epi was the owner of the bat, thus the bat passed to jonty, jonty lost this item and the doublevote by spiesr's action.
Or the bat was just randomly passed to whomever upon epi's death.
I don't really know how items work so it's hard to say for sure.
This leads to some plausible conlusions.
jonty is scum who wanted to keep the bat in scum's hands and thusly hammered secretly.
Spiesr is scum who is trying to frame jonty for some reason.
The reason I asked everyone to claim if they had lost items in the last nights was to determine how many "steals" we had out there.
Logically if no one has lost an item besides the ones spiesr has targeted, he is the robber, if anyone has lost more items outside of what spiesr claimed, a magician is possible besides the robber.
Thus I ask again, does anyone have any evidence to an item stealer that is not spiesr exists?

[LSU Tiger Josh]

i have had no objects disappear.

[jonty125]

I haven't had a bat at anytime in the game, and only first heard of it when zimmah announced it in the thread. My action used to be a day action, and via PM to the mod.

[jonty125]

I haven't had a bat at anytime in the game, and only first heard of it when zimmah announced it in the thread. My action used to be a day action, and via PM to the mod.

Sorry if this post is a little random, when / said hammer, I thought he meant an item, not the term hammering a player.

[pershy]

OK good points by IB there and others. It's true that I did start to trust Spiesr a little during our WT conversations. He said he was going to use his "magic" as an investigation and from what he says we do seen to have something to go on. My feeling is that if he's a thief then he's third party and not scum, which doesn't exonerate jonty. Does make sense that he gets the items rather than just making them disappear.

I am willing to change my vote if that's the consensus but I still suspect jonty and as I said Spiesr might just be 3rd party rather than scum and I think it's more important to get scum. Spiesr could be a mafia thief too. Can we make any connections between him and Vodean?

[pershy]

I dunno. Just looked through the thread again, mainly at Spiesr's posts and Spiesr voted Vodean on D1 (in the hope that he would crack) although it could be argued it was a joke vote. He was quite soft on Epi but then so was I, and he also said that he didn't believe Vodean's claim.

When I looked back and saw my day 1 voting doc this was brought to my attention

Zimmah voted - self (joke), Yomiel, Pershy, IB, happyfeet

made me a little suspicious as we know in hindsight a little more. We know that happy was town and I know I am and and trust IB and to an extent he who must not be mentioned, so it doesn't look too good to me.
So my top suspects would still be jonty, followed by zimmah and one of the other newbies like LSU.

IB, seems that you trust Sam then? I had a feeling that Shield who he replaced was town.

[Iron Butterfly]

I dunno. Just looked through the thread again, mainly at Spiesr's posts and Spiesr voted Vodean on D1 (in the hope that he would crack) although it could be argued it was a joke vote. He was quite soft on Epi but then so was I, and he also said that he didn't believe Vodean's claim.

When I looked back and saw my day 1 voting doc this was brought to my attention

Zimmah voted - self (joke), Yomiel, Pershy, IB, happyfeet

made me a little suspicious as we know in hindsight a little more. We know that happy was town and I know I am and and trust IB and to an extent he who must not be mentioned, so it doesn't look too good to me.
So my top suspects would still be jonty, followed by zimmah and one of the other newbies like LSU.

IB, seems that you trust Sam then? I had a feeling that Shield who he replaced was town.

trust is not the correct word. Anything can be possible in these games. he did take the time to go through the thread and made a strong case with the information at hand. As I said I gave spiesr my half of the WT specifically because I believed he was scum. Sam put forth some good information.

[LSU Tiger Josh]

one of the other newbies like LSU.

I love being called a noobie by someone that did not even join this site until almost 2 YEARS after I first played mafia here.



i am still waiting to see if other objects were stolen like /asked