Hostel Mafia Game Over; Scum Win

[militant]

RANDOM BANDWAGONS ARE BAD, M'KAY?

I think we just disproved F1fth's law.

Also, we provided some mighty good reasons to adopt Ditocoaf's Proposal.

is night, we are not supposed to talk, in fact forget that im posting this

I dont mind, you cn talk all you like, but obivuosly dont talk about stuff that should not be talked about in the night

[Fircoal]

RANDOM BANDWAGONS ARE BAD, M'KAY?

I think we just disproved F1fth's law.

Also, we provided some mighty good reasons to adopt Ditocoaf's Proposal.

is night, we are not supposed to talk, in fact forget that im posting this

I dont mind, you cn talk all you like, but obivuosly dont talk about stuff that should not be talked about in the night

I take what I said back Mili. I don't love you. You're Really Love You. SEX NOA!!!

[militant]

RANDOM BANDWAGONS ARE BAD, M'KAY?

I think we just disproved F1fth's law.

Also, we provided some mighty good reasons to adopt Ditocoaf's Proposal.

is night, we are not supposed to talk, in fact forget that im posting this

I dont mind, you cn talk all you like, but obivuosly dont talk about stuff that should not be talked about in the night

I take what I said back Mili. I don't love you. You're Really Love You. SEX NOA!!!

I dont get it but cool XD, The sex will have to wait though I am going to london for the day tommorow

[Ditocoaf]

RANDOM BANDWAGONS ARE BAD, M'KAY?

I think we just disproved F1fth's law.

Also, we provided some mighty good reasons to adopt Ditocoaf's Proposal.

Wtf is this ditocoaf proposal you keep going on about? I think I must have missed something somewhere

I don't think we need any complex theories to establish hammering claimed cop = bad

oh, that would be in Skoff's game. I'll dig up a link and post it in this game's morning.

[kwanton]

RANDOM BANDWAGONS ARE BAD, M'KAY?

I think we just disproved F1fth's law.

Also, we provided some mighty good reasons to adopt Ditocoaf's Proposal.

is night, we are not supposed to talk, in fact forget that im posting this

I dont mind, you cn talk all you like, but obivuosly dont talk about stuff that should not be talked about in the night

Stop talking at night newb

[Ditocoaf]

So you're wondering what those things I mentioned are? They're both from Skoff's game, like I said, and they're theories about how to play Mafia.

Step 1
People find the most ignorant, stupid, and otherwise funny reason to bandwagon someone random (i.e. "unreasonable")

Step 2
Person gets close to lynch and either:
a) people drop off the wagon; or else
b) push the wagon further.

If a) then go back to Step 1 and repeat for another player.
If b) proceed to Step 3.

Step 3
Now, with sufficient pressure applied to the subject and to the mob, one of three things happens:
a) pressure leads to inference of guilt in said subject, thus a "reasonable lynch" is achieved.
b) any given mob member's pushing piques the suspicion of the mob, bandwagon switches to him, thus a "reasonable bandwagon" is achieved.
c) evidence shows player to be innocent, which leads to two suboptions:
i. bandwagon ends, with no harm done, process repeats; or
ii. unreasonable lynch occurs, in which the hammerer becomes a "reasonable lynch" for tomorrow.

Thus, from unreason comes reason. From ignorance comes knowledge. And most importantly, day 1 is srs business.

A. Inherency: Any statement can be considered scummy, because any statement could normally be said by a scum player.
i. Mafia players are one thing, but pretending to be another.
ii. Any statement a townie would make, either to help the town or to prevent their own lynch, can be attributed to a scum's desire to be seen as town.
iii. Scum players will purposefully misinterpret a townie's words, attempting to start a bandwagon based on that interpenetration. Town players will accidentally misinterpret a townie's words, attempting to find scum.

B. Harms:
1) Any pro-town player can make a statement, and a scum player, or a mistaken townie, can misinterpret it, thereby causing a townie's lynch.
2) Players are forced to try to "go with the flow."
i. Scum players try to effect the game's outcome in order to win.
ii. Trying to effect the game's outcome can be interpreted as scummy, and is often assumed to be so.
iii. Since both townies and scum players want to avoid being seen as scummy, they will try to avoid being seen effecting the game's outcome.
iv. Instead of open debate about the best course of action, players have to avoid seeming attached to their own reasoning.
3) Players are caught in multiple "Catch-22's"
i. Continued from Harm 2 point iv: ...However, since scum will also want to avoid being seen as attached to their reasoning, "backtracking," or not sticking to your argument, will be seen as scummy. This forces players to attempt to walk the line between determined and wishy-washy.
ii. Players don't want to seem "too pro-town", because that seems desperate, but they don't want to seem too "indifferent", because that also can seem scummy.
iii. Being "lynch-happy" can be seen as scummy, and being anti-lynch can be seen as scummy. Players need to avoid being seen as either.

C. Proposal:
Currently, we often choose suspects based on status-quo logic: "That statement seems scummy because a scum player would say that." Instead, we should choose suspects based on proposal logic: "That statement would not normally be said by a town player."

D. Solvency: This line of reasoning is much less restrictive, and much more accurate.
i. Worth the wait: Even though opportunities for status-quo logic are much more frequent than opportunities for proposal logic, it is still worth the accuracy advantage. In fact, though situations where proposal-logic can be applied are currently rare, the increase in open, determined debate and discussion will likely increase the number of times scum will slip up and do something a townie wouldn't.
ii. Less Restrictive: We won't be caught in the catch-22's with this as the primary line of reasoning. Currently, we have to try and avoid anything that scum would do, which is most things. Under proposal logic, we would only have to avoid things that a townie wouldn't do, which make it so townies don't have to be careful at all.
iii. More Accurate. Most statements and actions in Mafia could be done by both a townie, and a scum player trying to act town. Going after a player who did something that could have been done by a scum player is not much better-off than a random lynch; we're forced to rely on "gut feelings" about those actions. We might catch scum, or a townie who accidentally stepped over an invisible line. However, if we went after a player who did something that a townie wouldn't do, we would only catch scum and really dumb townies.

[Fircoal]

RANDOM BANDWAGONS ARE BAD, M'KAY?

I think we just disproved F1fth's law.

Also, we provided some mighty good reasons to adopt Ditocoaf's Proposal.

is night, we are not supposed to talk, in fact forget that im posting this

I dont mind, you cn talk all you like, but obivuosly dont talk about stuff that should not be talked about in the night

I take what I said back Mili. I don't love you. You're Really Love You. SEX NOA!!!

I dont get it but cool XD, The sex will have to wait though I am going to london for the day tommorow

ok, Just you have two policies that I like to enforce in my mafia games, that games don't do much anymore.

[Skoffin]

A better question is why you didn't give one in the first place

Oh, I'm sorry. After being put at lynch bloody -1 by page two was I supposed to give out every single fucking detail just incase you guys decided to be stupid and jump the gun? Patience is a fucking virtue, next time town should bloody use it.

[Ditocoaf]

It's all part of the "hurry-up-and-lynch-somebody" mentality with which too many people play this game. These games are conducted with all the logic and consideration of the Salem witch trials.

[Fircoal]

It's all part of the "hurry-up-and-lynch-somebody" mentality with which too many people play this game. These games are conducted with all the logic and consideration of the Salem witch trials.

not always, Actually I just wanted to lynch Skoffin for the lolz.

[Ditocoaf]

It's all part of the "hurry-up-and-lynch-somebody" mentality with which too many people play this game. These games are conducted with all the logic and consideration of the Salem witch trials.

not always, Actually I just wanted to lynch Skoffin for the lolz.

Well, then, you're an asshole for making a mockery of Millitant's game. Why does he deserve to have his game be the one where people don't try to win?

[Skoffin]

Precisely. And now you know why I am getting pissed off in my game where people are voting with the reason 'let's try to piss off skoffin'.

[Ditocoaf]

Precisely. And now you know why I am getting pissed off in my game where people are voting with the reason 'let's try to piss off skoffin'.

Well, that's mostly joking. It's sometimes fun to joke that the game is the Players vs. The Mod... but they're not really aiming to piss you off.

[kwanton]

yes we were



(remember that I unvoted skoff )

[Fircoal]

It's all part of the "hurry-up-and-lynch-somebody" mentality with which too many people play this game. These games are conducted with all the logic and consideration of the Salem witch trials.

not always, Actually I just wanted to lynch Skoffin for the lolz.

Well, then, you're an asshole for making a mockery of Millitant's game. Why does he deserve to have his game be the one where people don't try to win?

are you accusing me of not trying to win? O_O No, I am trying to win. I pretty much always would try to win. no game is different from the other. See Dito, you don't know the full past. Part of the reason I've wanted to get some people lynched day 1 for no reason, relies there. Being well known and liked here can lead to it. It's happened quite a bit to me, part of the reason why I want it to happen to others now.

Edit: Also with that being said, part of how Mafia is played now, or at least how I play it know is influenced by that, while I may accidentally scumarine (cause I'm lazy) it doesn't mean that I don't want to try. And with all the day 1 lynches now, it's basically lynch a friend, or that's how I see it. I don't mean to mock any game. Actually it's not just Mili's is more what this edit is for. While you're looking, maybe you'll see I've been happy to lynch someone for quite a lot of games for those little reasons. Say what you will but that's how the bricks fell.

[Ditocoaf]

It's all part of the "hurry-up-and-lynch-somebody" mentality with which too many people play this game. These games are conducted with all the logic and consideration of the Salem witch trials.

not always, Actually I just wanted to lynch Skoffin for the lolz.

Well, then, you're an asshole for making a mockery of Millitant's game. Why does he deserve to have his game be the one where people don't try to win?

are you accusing me of not trying to win? O_O No, I am trying to win. I pretty much always would try to win. no game is different from the other. See Dito, you don't know the full past. Part of the reason I've wanted to get some people lynched day 1 for no reason, relies there. Being well known and liked here can lead to it. It's happened quite a bit to me, part of the reason why I want it to happen to others now.

Edit: Also with that being said, part of how Mafia is played now, or at least how I play it know is influenced by that, while I may accidentally scumarine (cause I'm lazy) it doesn't mean that I don't want to try. And with all the day 1 lynches now, it's basically lynch a friend, or that's how I see it. I don't mean to mock any game. Actually it's not just Mili's is more what this edit is for. While you're looking, maybe you'll see I've been happy to lynch someone for quite a lot of games for those little reasons. Say what you will but that's how the bricks fell.

lynching someone just for the laughs, despite a cop claim (which admittedly makes it funnier) is hardly trying to win the game.

[Fircoal]

It's all part of the "hurry-up-and-lynch-somebody" mentality with which too many people play this game. These games are conducted with all the logic and consideration of the Salem witch trials.

not always, Actually I just wanted to lynch Skoffin for the lolz.

Well, then, you're an asshole for making a mockery of Millitant's game. Why does he deserve to have his game be the one where people don't try to win?

are you accusing me of not trying to win? O_O No, I am trying to win. I pretty much always would try to win. no game is different from the other. See Dito, you don't know the full past. Part of the reason I've wanted to get some people lynched day 1 for no reason, relies there. Being well known and liked here can lead to it. It's happened quite a bit to me, part of the reason why I want it to happen to others now.

Edit: Also with that being said, part of how Mafia is played now, or at least how I play it know is influenced by that, while I may accidentally scumarine (cause I'm lazy) it doesn't mean that I don't want to try. And with all the day 1 lynches now, it's basically lynch a friend, or that's how I see it. I don't mean to mock any game. Actually it's not just Mili's is more what this edit is for. While you're looking, maybe you'll see I've been happy to lynch someone for quite a lot of games for those little reasons. Say what you will but that's how the bricks fell.

lynching someone just for the laughs, despite a cop claim (which admittedly makes it funnier) is hardly trying to win the game.

:/ True, but it's Day 1, as you've seen in Skoffin's game this is how day 1 works.

[Ditocoaf]

not always, Actually I just wanted to lynch Skoffin for the lolz.

Well, then, you're an asshole for making a mockery of Millitant's game. Why does he deserve to have his game be the one where people don't try to win?

are you accusing me of not trying to win? O_O No, I am trying to win. I pretty much always would try to win. no game is different from the other. See Dito, you don't know the full past. Part of the reason I've wanted to get some people lynched day 1 for no reason, relies there. Being well known and liked here can lead to it. It's happened quite a bit to me, part of the reason why I want it to happen to others now.

Edit: Also with that being said, part of how Mafia is played now, or at least how I play it know is influenced by that, while I may accidentally scumarine (cause I'm lazy) it doesn't mean that I don't want to try. And with all the day 1 lynches now, it's basically lynch a friend, or that's how I see it. I don't mean to mock any game. Actually it's not just Mili's is more what this edit is for. While you're looking, maybe you'll see I've been happy to lynch someone for quite a lot of games for those little reasons. Say what you will but that's how the bricks fell.

lynching someone just for the laughs, despite a cop claim (which admittedly makes it funnier) is hardly trying to win the game.

:/ True, but it's Day 1, as you've seen in Skoffin's game this is how day 1 works.

Ah, tradition. The refuge of those who can't be bothered to think.

Kidding, of course. But still, just because that's how it is usually done, doesn't mean that it's the right way to do it.

[Fircoal]

Well, then, you're an asshole for making a mockery of Millitant's game. Why does he deserve to have his game be the one where people don't try to win?

are you accusing me of not trying to win? O_O No, I am trying to win. I pretty much always would try to win. no game is different from the other. See Dito, you don't know the full past. Part of the reason I've wanted to get some people lynched day 1 for no reason, relies there. Being well known and liked here can lead to it. It's happened quite a bit to me, part of the reason why I want it to happen to others now.

Edit: Also with that being said, part of how Mafia is played now, or at least how I play it know is influenced by that, while I may accidentally scumarine (cause I'm lazy) it doesn't mean that I don't want to try. And with all the day 1 lynches now, it's basically lynch a friend, or that's how I see it. I don't mean to mock any game. Actually it's not just Mili's is more what this edit is for. While you're looking, maybe you'll see I've been happy to lynch someone for quite a lot of games for those little reasons. Say what you will but that's how the bricks fell.

lynching someone just for the laughs, despite a cop claim (which admittedly makes it funnier) is hardly trying to win the game.

:/ True, but it's Day 1, as you've seen in Skoffin's game this is how day 1 works.

Ah, tradition. The refuge of those who can't be bothered to think.

Kidding, of course. But still, just because that's how it is usually done, doesn't mean that it's the right way to do it.

of course. Meh, it's how the bricks fall, at least I wasn't making up stupid excuses. >_> I'll say the truth and say like me means it.

[ga7]

Bleh, Skoffin is experienced enough to not make a claim sound like something Nes or Ani could pop up after 5 seconds of reflexion. Sure, there were idle people on this wagon but there were also convinced people obviously.
You can theorize and blame all you want, but usually when this kind of random wagon happens on day 1, a claim happens, and people move on with more info, like wagon info which can be vital in the endgame. One thing that you people seem to forget with all this crap about mob attitude is that if someone can't sway the opinion of people, they suck at mafia. No matter your role when you got pressure on you you gotta convince people to unvote you. If you fail at that, you got only yourself to blame.

[FloresDelMal]

One thing that you people seem to forget with all this crap about mob attitude is that if someone can't sway the opinion of people, they suck at mafia. No matter your role when you got pressure on you you gotta convince people to unvote you. If you fail at that, you got only yourself to blame.

QFT

to me this little piece of wisdom is worth much more than all the wannabe laws sore ppl can come up with, and i am quite serious on this one; whinning get terribly annoying in a very short time, please i beg you kids, dont abuse of whinning.

[Ditocoaf]

One thing that you people seem to forget with all this crap about mob attitude is that if someone can't sway the opinion of people, they suck at mafia. No matter your role when you got pressure on you you gotta convince people to unvote you. If you fail at that, you got only yourself to blame.

QFT

to me this little piece of wisdom is worth much more than all the wannabe laws sore ppl can come up with, and i am quite serious on this one; whinning get terribly annoying in a very short time, please i beg you kids, dont abuse of whinning.

I apologize for all my assholeness in Skoff's game. I'll try not to bring it over here.

[icedagger]

Dito I'm not gonna pretend I read your proposal any chance of a summary?

[FloresDelMal]

I apologize for all my assholeness in Skoff's game. I'll try not to bring it over here.

apology accepted, im just not quite ready for kiss and make up just yet

[Ditocoaf]

Dito I'm not gonna pretend I read your proposal any chance of a summary?

Oh, it was just me bitching about how "any statement or action can be interpreted as scummy," and therefore such statements shouldn't be treated as incriminating. I was saying that only statements that "town wouldn't say" should be used as evidence. I got over-dramatic, and wrote a Policy Debate first affirmative speech about it.