[UNKNOWN] Mafia Day 5 - The Disappearance [Abandoned]

[strike wolf]

I don't consider you evil and I like Mod tricks even if they do suck if you are the one they are pulled on.

[safariguy5]

I will admit that would suck if you let yourself be lynched because you thought you were unlynchable and it was a mod trick...

Why do I get the feeling that everyone considers me a very evil mod who implements a bunch oddities and tries to mess with peoples heads?

Lol, not evil, just err "creative". And you said this was one where you wouldn't be making anything too crazy, now everyone's tripping over the theme.

[freezie]

Freezie is on this bandwagon, and if Rodion turns up town, I will make a note of that.

Yes, and then why not lynch everyone who was on on last day's waggon and everyone here aswell?

Everyone's on a townie's wagon is 100% defenitly scum
I am unmasked. Good Job vio, flawless case


[/sarcasm]

I more or less beleive Rodion's claim, and anyway I won't unvote since that's a good way to verifying that claim.

Of course, however, I should unvote cause Vio will otherwise fall on me like a giant batcloud on a drip of blood.

Decisions decisions....


FoS Vio if I were a vig I would have my target tonight..

[Iliad]

I will admit that would suck if you let yourself be lynched because you thought you were unlynchable and it was a mod trick...

While commander had the Alexander role where Medefe thought he was some kind of vig, I doubt this is the case here.

Considering Rodion's behaviour today, and the fairly broad theme and therefore the ease of fakeclaiming, I'm in the camp that we try and lynch Rodion and test his claim.

[DoomYoshi]

Nobody hammer until we get fircoal's post though, or I will vote you tomorrow.

[edocsil]

Stupidity. It will end the day as per usual of a Governor. Waste of a day.

[freezie]

Stupidity. It will end the day as per usual of a Governor. Waste of a day.

Unless rodion turns up scum.

[strike wolf]

which I still find somewhat likely.

[Rodion]

Did you have something to say, Fircoal?

[edocsil]

Did you have something to say, Fircoal?

He hasn't been on much.

[Fircoal]

Did you have something to say, Fircoal?

He hasn't been on much.

That I haven't. :/ Been getting behind on EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!!!! >< So frustrating :<

[blakebowling]

So we're in agreement to kill Rodion to test his claim?
Vote Rodion (Should be L-3)

Also, I'd like to remind anyone that wasn't in terminator that Rodion is very good at fake claiming. I was legit the cop and he made up enough story to get me killed.

[edocsil]

So we're in agreement to kill Rodion to test his claim?
Vote Rodion (Should be L-3)

Also, I'd like to remind anyone that wasn't in terminator that Rodion is very good at fake claiming. I was legit the cop and he made up enough story to get me killed.

That was embarrassingly bad that you got fooled, it was an obvious fake.

[targetman377]

ALRIGHT!!! i am back in but I don't really feel to good about lynching him! vote Rodin

[blakebowling]

So we're in agreement to kill Rodion to test his claim?
Vote Rodion (Should be L-3)

Also, I'd like to remind anyone that wasn't in terminator that Rodion is very good at fake claiming. I was legit the cop and he made up enough story to get me killed.

That was embarrassingly bad that you got fooled, it was an obvious fake.

I wasn't fooled. I knew he was scum. Everyone else believed him and killed me.

[Rodion]

So we're in agreement to kill Rodion to test his claim?
Vote Rodion (Should be L-3)

Also, I'd like to remind anyone that wasn't in terminator that Rodion is very good at fake claiming. I was legit the cop and he made up enough story to get me killed.

I feel honoured to hear that, but truth is Safari had provided us with fake claims in Terminator Mafia.

Back on topic, are we waiting for Fircoal's big post before I get hammer-cleared?

[ndrs]

I'll give Fircoal a little bit more time to update tonight, but if he doesn't, I'm gonna trust my gut and vote Rodio later this evening (GMT).

[safariguy5]

So we're in agreement to kill Rodion to test his claim?
Vote Rodion (Should be L-3)

Also, I'd like to remind anyone that wasn't in terminator that Rodion is very good at fake claiming. I was legit the cop and he made up enough story to get me killed.

I feel honoured to hear that, but truth is Safari had provided us with fake claims in Terminator Mafia.

Back on topic, are we waiting for Fircoal's big post before I get hammer-cleared?

Textbook case of not putting too much weight in the claim and following the cop. It's ok, a good learning experience. But in this game, the roleclaims can come from almost anywhere, so I wouldn't put as much faith in roleclaims as I would in player actions.

ALRIGHT!!! i am back in but I don't really feel to good about lynching him! vote Rodin

Sigh... skimming, bandwagonning, and something of a nonsequiter of a sentence... I'll wait to see if Fircoal posts a case, so for now, FoS Target

[Fircoal]

So we're in agreement to kill Rodion to test his claim?
Vote Rodion (Should be L-3)

Also, I'd like to remind anyone that wasn't in terminator that Rodion is very good at fake claiming. I was legit the cop and he made up enough story to get me killed.

I feel honoured to hear that, but truth is Safari had provided us with fake claims in Terminator Mafia.

Back on topic, are we waiting for Fircoal's big post before I get hammer-cleared?

Yes we're waiting for my post. I'm currently on Page 23 of Mircosoft Word. Didn't even get to add the crux of my thoughts yet either. Though you do have to remember there is a LOT of quotes xwx.

[Rodion]

23? Seriously?

How many pages were there in POTC?

[Fircoal]

Okay everyone, I have caught up on my reading here. Once again I was busy this weekend, I had to drive back to my home town this weekend to get fitted for tux with my grooms men so that kept me away.

Now that is done now back to business, yes fircoal you are right this game I have not been that productive cause of real life but I am back now and my schedule is getting a little under control so I will be back at it once again.

Rodion, I have no problem answering you questions but I can guarantee either with my name or your other question will not help your investigation at all, due to this I will not answer unless I feel that the town would like to hear this from, you do not have to give me any FOS or Votes.

I would like to just hear from the town as to what they would like and I like I said I have no issue with this.

But this is what I have determined by my role, the death of romeo and the outcome of the knights templar. You curiosity if it deals with just Shakespeare plays is a good avenue to start but the Knights templar have nothing to do with shakespeare.

So you have no problem answering his questions but yet you don’t do it. What makes you so sure that it won’t help with anything? That sounds suspicious to me.

When saf is pretty sure of something, it means he is involved somehow. unvote vote saf.

Also, Bleed, you can give the information if you want. Nobody is stopping you... I am beginning to think it might be best for you to give it now rather than risk an NK and our investigation going nowhere.

Welcome to weak arguments are us. Just because someone is sure of something doesn’t mean that someone’s scum. There are so many other possible reasons. MANY other possible reasons.

I was never actually trying to mislead the town, I was merely trying to connect the dots. Like I originally said from all the talks about lovers mechanics even after the death of 1 of the Templars Knights it seemed that everyone was focusing on the Romeo and Juliet theme and I was trying to understand how the Knights Templar played a role in Romeo & Juliet, it was never to mislead the town in any direction other then trying to determine what is going on. The speculation earlier of a cult/ 3rd party I merely looked at theme that was brought up to see if there was connection in the storyline, from reading the wiki page on Romeo and Juliet I found the part about Paris and just brought it to light.

Now, I can tell you that my character is not from Romeo and Juliet. It's not a Knights Templar either. When I've connected "Romeo and Juliet" with "Knights Templar" with my own character, I quickly realized the theme is broad, so broad that I'd be willing to believe this 25-player game featured figures like Cristopher Columbus, Leonardo Da Vinci, Inquisitors, Dracula, Frankenstein and several other book characters. You, however, appear to be extremely narrow-minded, as your 3rd-party speculation mentions only a character from Romeo and Juliet and you don't seem to understand why the Knights Templar are on the game at all.

As for calling me narrow minded, maybe i might have been. But since you seemed to have figured out what is going on maybe you could come out with what the theme is so we can start looking in the right direction, I am pretty sure I am not the only trying to connect the dots.

I don’t exactly think Paris is a main character of Romeo and Juliet. So just why would she be in it unless you thought the theme was Romeo and Juliet? Seeing how you read the wiki article, I think that gives us a good idea that you thought it was Romeo and Juliet, but yet your role isn’t from there.

This:

I'm not asking for post quantity, I'm asking for post quality. 1 well presented case per day is much better than 10 fluff posts that give you the illusion of activity while saying nothing.

Says the king of fluff. Your post count since the cut-scene is 15, hardly mentioning the scene at all. In all of these post you are going down the safest and most neutral way possible. First very actively advocating for pressure on Nam, and then putting pressure on me, which again is safer then going after the more "experienced guys", as you put it. Very safe.

I'll have to read back on you to see if there is anything worth pursuing.

And this:

Sorry I have been extremely busy with work that I have not really had much chance to catch up on my reading on this post, I have done a lot of reading up just trying to understand how romeo & juliet and the knights templar play in.. if this is a classic then there good easily be a third party, I did some reading and third party could be Paris the prince of Verona that Juliet was promised to before meeting Romeo.

I am still trying to wrap my head a round why Knights Templars are involved???

It must be a mix of several different factions from across the medieval timeline. Although I'm not 100% sure what the alignments are, I'm pretty sure the Knights Templar are town.

But I will try to get the submariners more active in lieu of a better case. It's not like there was nothing to discuss today that would elicit no response.

unvote vote ndrs

Safariguy5 is obviously trying to lead the discussion away from the cut-scene (which is mostly about the Knights Templar) and talk fluff, and is also trying to protect them by saying he's pretty sure they are town.
The last thing is especially scummy to me. How can anyone really believe that the Templars are town? They are Knights! And a very elitist Order! Obviously NOT town. This is also confirmed now with Rodions excellent color catch.

Also, Safariguy5 is doing a good job trying to point us at Namliam, who very likely could be town (because Romeo is). Namliam could also be Mafia or something else – we don't know – but my point is: If Safariguy5 is a Knight, he wouldn't care if Namliam is Town, Mafia, or whatever.

To me, every Safariguy5 post makes sense if he a Knight.

vote Safariguy and FOS at those who try to defend him.

Two things.
1) Basing off of cut scenes is not the best way to play mafia. At least imo it’s pretty boring and doesn’t actually show the real scumminess. I’d gladly take attention off of it.
2) If he’s a knight, then he’s probably 3rd party. Really at this point we should focus on SCUM not 3rd party.

When saf is pretty sure of something, it means he is involved somehow. unvote vote saf.

Also, Bleed, you can give the information if you want. Nobody is stopping you... I am beginning to think it might be best for you to give it now rather than risk an NK and our investigation going nowhere.

Sure about what? Please elaborate.

You are sure about the Knights Templar (who are clearly third-party) being town.

The only way he could be sure of that is if he was a pro-town Knight. X3 So if he knows for sure than he’s town. XD

[I had, however, the feeling that there wouldn't be a third Romeo and Juliet character, unless he had an alignment other than town.

Where did you dig up such info? We don't know if Juliet is scum or not, she isn't dead ( yet ). How would a scum character from Romeo and juliet be so improbable? It's a little early to make such speculations.

It really doesn’t seem like that big of a speculation. And besides it doesn’t really effect anything and in my eyes seems pretty probable.

What makes you so sure they're not town? As Com9 himself brought up, we had Christians, Scientologists and Atheists, all with recruiting powers in Post Apoc. Now, they weren't cult factions, and they didn't have much effect on win conditions of the recruited people. We haven't seen anything yet that suggests the Knights are cult or anti town yet. I see no recruiting, and no NK abilities for the Knights in the scene. I can assure you I'm not a knight, but nothing from the Night Scene indicates to me their anti town. The shadow with the reflexes is much more higher on my anti town list than the Templars are.

FYI: The different religious factions had different colors to their roles too.

I just assumed. From my understanding of their history, the Templars weren't exactly good guys. Basically they were the ringleaders of an occupying, military sect, and as they were above local law (answered only to the Pope) they did whatever they wanted to the people of the towns they ruled. Non-christians wasn't considered humans, and the crusaders even ate them on some occasions, believe it or not! But this is not the place for this, so I'll leave it at that.

About the shadow; we know it to be anti-Templar (from the two scenes) but we don't know anything of it being anti-Town (even though it's not unlikely).

What I get from your post is this: you are defending the Templars by yet again suggesting they're a non-treat. And you are trying to steer us towards the Templar-killing Shadow instead. While I agree that the Shadow is scary (killed 48 people, was it?) this doesn't help your case, so my vote on you stays for now.

So you're basing your case on me on flavor speculation about what the Knights Templar are? Sounds like a thinly veiled OMGUS to me. Fos ndrs

It sounds logical to me. I mean there is a case there, but it isn’t a very strong one.

Think of it this way (simplified version for didactic purposes):

1 - Your character is "triangle".
2 - You see someone claiming "grape" and saying he was lovers with someone everyone considers to be "apple" (from the famous "Grape and Apple" book by this famous writer called "Farmer").
3 - Then you see N1 scene mentioning "shield" defending "sword", "shield" dying and his brother "spear" mourning his death.
4 - There's also this "dolphin" guy lurking in the shadows and surviving only due to his inhuman powers.
5 - Then you start to speculate on 3rd-partys, being only able to name fruits ("watermellon") and have the hardest time ever understanding why there would be "weapon" characters in what is obviously a "fruit game".
6 - Someone asks: "buddy, what's your name?"
7 - Everyone dislikes the question and forces him to ultimately rephrase it.
8 - That guy rephrases his question to "can you at least tell me if you are a fruit?"
9 - You answer: "I'm a geometric shape."

COME ON!!! I can't accept that I'm the only person that sees something (really) odd here!!!

You aren’t.

Okay here is the information that you were wanting.. I am giving it up right away so we can proceed with other actual leads that will have a positive outcome for the town.

I am Dante Alighieri the Intellectual, I am a poet who has been thought by others to be above Shakespeare.

That was quite early considering we already got the info we wanted from you.

Okay here is the information that you were wanting.. I am giving it up right away so we can proceed with other actual leads that will have a positive outcome for the town.

I am Dante Alighieri the Intellectual, I am a poet who has been thought by others to be above Shakespeare.

So you decide to claim when there are about 3-5 votes on you? I didn't bother going back a lot of pages for an accurate count, but there are ONLY 3 votes for you on the last 3 pages... in a game this size it means nothing.

Would you just like everyone to claim when they are investigated? I thought claiming would be a last resort ...

FoS Bleed

Investigated is a word that has close ties to cop investigations. If that were to happen and it comes up scum, then yes everyone that happens to should claim.

So what's the point all of this? Admittedly from a simple case building perspective this is fairly weak. I could add that she has defended saf but I am not convinced by the case on saf nor do I see her defending saf as much as she is setting her sights on freezie. My point is that I do not find this behavior very typical of vio as town. She has remained mostly isolated from discussion that does not meet some agenda that she seems to have and usually I see her go against at least one day one lynch based on some reason or another. Here she really stayed out of the way of most wagons. Admittedly she did miss a lot of the shield and other day one wagons, but she has had no comment about nam, rodion's case on bleed, target and she's only commented on saf as much as it seems to affect some agenda she has against freezie.

I was inactive for most of Day 1's discussions. its a bit hard for me to follow and comment on, especially after the fact. This game left me rather quickly and it still does.

I can however comment on what I do understand.

So you asked for:
Comment @ nam : absolutely nothing
rodion's case on bled: it was weird, and i don't like Shakespeare- so i don't really follow
target: i've said nothing about him.
saf: I've seen nothing wrong with his game play so far, and wondered why freezie was being so hard on them.
hidden agenda on freezie: yes this is true

Now the topic shifts towards Dan Brown, and I don't know who that is. Nor what he has to do with this game. I will comment when I can, and if I figure something out.

Your opinions on the main cases are so shallow not even plankton can survive in it.

welcome!

WHERE THE BUIZEL DID YOU COME FROM!?!?!?!

Van Helsing anyone? Stalker, dark plans, arrows? IDK. IMO this flavor spec is useless, I only mention Van Helsing to make a point. We really have no idea what is out there. Lets go hang someone we think is scummy...

This

Joan of Arc?

You, sir, are growing in rank on my scum list.

We have NO reasons for gim to claim. Just shut it up instead of pressing infos of random people.

Gim, unless you are pressured with the threat of a lynch, or unless you have solid info that will help the town, you should not reveal info about your character. It gives the evil guys a better view on who to kill to harm us more.

Your info, however, revealed something that everyone should take in consideration now: The game's theme is broad enough that questioning and trying to find it out will hurt us more than help at this point of the game. Later, we'll see. For now, it helps more the mafia to make fake claims than help us.

I want to see bleed getting some more pressure simply because of his weird acting that Rodion found out. Right now we're wasting time trying to find something we don't need to figure out yet.

I have not been acting weird, I succumb to the fact that I was narrow minded at the beginning about the theme and the scope of the game. But since then I have been completely forthcoming. Personally I would like think the theme or very least the scope can bring light to what we are determining to be scum. So far there are 2 scum figures in the night scene, a shadow and the man who killed Henry.

As Rodion stated that he believes the theme and scope may not be that important at this time, but with this large of a game with less then half posting right now really no evidence is coming to light.

If you still want to pressure me some more what else would you like to, I have given my character my characters name and what period he came from.

There's no real evidence to indicate two mafia kills. Unless there are two small mafias, it's just as possible that the man with the crossbow was a vig or possibly an SKer.

With 25 players I don’t see any reason not to believe that there can be 2 mafias. I think to speculation on this should wait until after we get another night worth of kills.

Joan of Arc?

You, sir, are growing in rank on my scum list.

We have NO reasons for gim to claim. Just shut it up instead of pressing infos of random people.

Gim, unless you are pressured with the threat of a lynch, or unless you have solid info that will help the town, you should not reveal info about your character. It gives the evil guys a better view on who to kill to harm us more.

Your info, however, revealed something that everyone should take in consideration now: The game's theme is broad enough that questioning and trying to find it out will hurt us more than help at this point of the game. Later, we'll see. For now, it helps more the mafia to make fake claims than help us.

I want to see bleed getting some more pressure simply because of his weird acting that Rodion found out. Right now we're wasting time trying to find something we don't need to figure out yet.

I tried to warn that making bleed give up information without pressure was a slippery slope, and this is simply proving that warning. As of right now Rodion, with Bleed at the very least nameclaiming, I see no real case on him besides flavor speculation. Sure, additional pressure may cause him to reveal the role, I will give you that, but to continue to speculate on individual roles is much more detrimental to town than speculating on the game theme. Of course the question could be begged, if Bleed wasn't from a Shakespeare game, why the speculation about just Shakespeare characters, but I don't think it's a lynchable offense in and of itself.

Right you tried to warn him and of course nothing good could be gotten from his information. Honestly it looks like you’re trying to pin down the guy that seems to be too caught up in his research to notice he’s soon going to go astray. (Of course at this point it’s all speculation on my part but knowing the end result it’s very likely) I really don’t like this post. It fails to note the case that Rodion made, and the fact that it’s valid just shrugging it off and calling his efforts as scummy for little reason.

The point is rodion, it was a very clear scenario where he could have ended up claiming all his role information and you did nothing to discourage it and after he hinted you took a stab at his role name. No you didn't out right press him into revealing information but your lack of action to stop it is what sticks out and you can not argue that you did not out right call for bleed to give his name.

You’re expecting a guy who’s completed like 2 games to know to stop someone from giving out role info. And next you’re telling me that you’re expecting presents from Santa Clause? I think you need to get your irrational believes checked at. ;3

I'm looking in two directions here. One way is the lane of inactivity, and I'd like to pressure the inactives some more. I think that lane is better suited for some prods by commander. I'm sure he'll take care of that once his schedule clears a little.

The other one is going after Rodion. Especially the last part where he 'gently' leads gimli into nameclaiming. It's not very suspicious by itself, but it would have been just as easy to tell him when it is appropriat to share this information.

To be honest, it feels like a sub-radar kinda move to get some information, without really asking for it.
Unvote, vote Rodion.

I WANT IT EASY! I WANT IT EASY! I WANT IT EASY!

I apologise for being silent but I haven't had a lot to say, and I don't want to waste people's time with fluff.

I've said my thoughts on Nam, which is largely that it will sort itself out by D3, and if it doesn't we act then.

My thoughts on flavour spec; it's largely a waste of time at this point, with a theme obviously so broad (Shakespeare by itself would have 100's of potential characters) it's easy enough for scum to fakeclaim. The only spec'ing I would like to partake in would be about the knights of templar (which at this point I feel is some kind of Mason'd third party, with a possible alternate win-con, based off gut mostly, they could very well be malicious to town).

My thoughts on Rodion; a very complex case, that ultimately failed to make an impact. Although I'm sure the case took a long time to put together; even before the claim I wasn't that convinced to chase up bleed_green as it was ultimately again based off someone flavour spec'ing, which in a game this large and broad isn't a very firm foundation.

Aside from those very broad events, I haven't had a chance to do a fine read through. Nothing major popped out at me at first read. Other than the obvious about Rodion's Joan of Ark comment which he dismissed as being insignificant, when in reality it did look scummy. Despite that looking scummy I don't know if someone who was part of the mafia would spend so much time building a case and propelling themself to the fore-front in a way they knew would make them look scummy (by asking for a character name). It would be a very stupid move for scum to do.

A possibility I guess is maybe a role that relies on finding a certain character? And he is jumping on chances to out people? *Shrugs* Though occhams razor is telling me someone anti-town wouldn't act so stupidly suspiscious in building a case they wouldn't have to.

You’re very good at never really crossing the line aren’t you? I haven’t seen a post by you yet that really makes you stand firm in a position. Seeing how this is in every game I have no choice but to dismiss this as your play style. Though I will say that you call out Rodion as scummy but yet you defend him seems a bit scummy to meh.

Again, where is the suspicion on bleed. Half your case revolved around him nameclaiming, and now that he did so, I don't see how the case you have on him can continue. Flavor spec is all well and good, but I don't believe that basing an entire case on just flavor spec is valid. It looks a bit like tunnel vision to me.

You know simplifying an argument to “flavor spec” over and over again doesn’t mean that’ll actually become flavor spec. No matter how many times you say that it’s more than that. It’s making a logical deduction that based off of the information that bleed had there was no reason for him to make the comment that he made. That shows that it is likely that his role is not that which he claims it to be.

Target, the red part is supposed not to make sense.

By the red part not making sense, we conclude Bleed's posts on the beginning of day 2 did not make sense (because the red part is a summary of Bleed's actions).

The fact that his actions didn't make sense at all made me conclude he had some hidden agenda and tried to deceive the town with poor speculations which he either knew to be weak or should have known (considering his own character).

Did I make it clearer for you now, Target?

Or considering his experience level, I theorize that he thought that the theme was R & J or Shakespeare and to make it seem like he was town instead of a misnomer role he tried to make it seem like he was confused that a non-R&J or Shakespeare role made it in.

And I'll suspect anyone that disputes something I see as clear as water (the thought process is simple: "there is only one truth - if I'm right and you disagree with me, then you must be wrong"). Right now, it's as clear as water for me that Bleed's story doesn't add up. I was bold enough to risk my skin into hearing from him and we got a story that doesn't make sense, yet I'm the one getting voted/FOSed. It's growing to be a really frustrating game for me if you want to know (it feels like I'm the man returning to the cave from Plato's allegory - and that is not a roleclaim).

Don't do this. Seriously don't do this. It'll only get everyone to be attracted to your lynch like a bunch of magnemite.

Ok i Am starting to think that Rodion might HAVE to say what he is saying and play aggressively! After all in commanders last came there where charictors like tom cruise. Could this be the same thing Here. Not know how many games Rodein has been in and still new to the game It just seems like some one with that much experience could attract that much attention without it being forced on to him.

As commander pointed out the "peasants" are mindless!! maybe he has to convince people and forced to investigate things during the day!

Let's put it this way: Although Rodion hasn't played very many games, he has the intelligence and ability on par with many of the veterans.

As for "investigating during the days", that's what everyone is supposed to do. Lynches are the town's greatest weapon against mafia. Believe me, vigs often end up doing more harm than good when they try to NK mafia. And cops revealing too early in these games often end up dead and of no further help to town.

I agree with you that Rodion can play ball with the pros thought I will have to say there are mistakes that he makes purely because he just hasn’t enough experience. There are things in mafia that just shouldn’t be done and until he does them and gets called out on them he will not fully learn the problems of what he is doing. Me and you both know when to talk and when to keep quite or the wolves will call out our names, I don’t think Rodion has mastered this yet.

Commander didn't come here with the intent of hinting everyone at something. He merely stated he liked a reference and how catastrophic it could reveal itself.

This. You may find a lot of clues in the scenes, but this has nothing to with it - I was just making a comment. His alignment (whether he's town, mafia, cult, vampire, spaceman or digimon) doesn't matter and I'd have posted the same comment regardless of it.

What about Pokemon? ;3

Even the clearest water can mask the real truth. You'll find out in the long run that this train of thought does not fly far in mafia. We are not even challenging you on the bleed case that much you brought up some good points and if I disagreed with you on it, well I have never been one to shy away from confronting you directly about it. I had one point that I was not quite sure added up and I asked you about it and you gave a satisfactory answer. Other than that I do not feel your case has any inconsistencies I just don't feel it is as rock solid as you seem to feel and I have concerns about the character of the person who started it. Either way, when you are getting fosed/voted it is often best to self-reflect on why you may be getting voted. In this case it is how non-chalant you have acted towards people giving up information about their roles and how quick you are to accuse anyone who has directly disagreed with you. You also can't say that it is just this instance either. You FOSED "the clowns" standing in the way of your investigation earlier. But please don't get frustrated. Every time you are lynched or brought under scrutiny you should think of it as a learning experience.

And yes name claims can reveal a lot about the possible dangers of a person. Like for instance we have speculated that Dracula may be the one responsible for the failed Night 1 kill...let's say someone (maybe Target) name claimed Van Helsing. Guess who jumps to the top of the mafia must kill pile? we don't know what the powers of these mafia are or who they are. Therefore we do not know how effective our protections against these mafias may be or who may be their main enemies. Even if you say it was no "big deal" to get a name claim, there was still no reason for you to take a stab at guessing gimli's. He was under no suspicion and you had no case to make about him. It has only damaged your reputation and I am not convinced you shouldn't be lynched on principle.

Mind explaining the concerns of regarding the character of the person who started Bleed's case (myself)? Would you have allowed someone else to have done exactly what I did because you have nothing against this person's character?

no. Not if they proceeded in the fashion you did. My problem is how you have regarded name claims the entire day. You have dismissed them as all but irrelevant which has irked me. There were a couple of other things but for the most part you have given satisfactory answers to them.

Actually I'm pretty sure that he dismissed gimil's partial role claim as unimportant considering he thinks nothing of his prying for more information.

About the clowns part, I was so sure I'd get to prove my case that I'd make everyone who formerly doubted/obstructed me to realize they were clowns indeed (except for those that had a hidden agenda in doubting/obstructing me, obviously) and apologize to me (or at least don't mind the "offense"). I must confess I'm surprised that the prophecy didn't fully materialize yet.

part of the problem you are having is that lal which you are going after is not always applicable and while I do kind of like your case on bleed streaker is right in saying that a lot of it was based on wifom.

While LAL may not always work, for what gain would Bleed have for lying? There is a motive behind everything. And in that motive we find out the truth.

However the problem we are seeing is not in your case on bleed it was the way you handled gimli giving out information.

Honestly to me it seems like you're blowing this gimil thing way out of proportion. That seems to be the basis of his whole lynch if you think the Bleed case isn't scummy.

Well, that's a change from the 0% idea. A good starting to point. I just wish I didn't have to constantly corner you in order to get you to appraise the situations in a better way. Feels like every post is a huge battle to unsmask one of your subtle anti-Rodion comments.

I am only anti-you to the point that i find you suspicious...

Or because of a hidden agenda. But that's WIFOM, no need to reply.

In the field of (formal) logic, things either are or aren't. When someone contradicts himself, you can be straight forward in saying one of his 1 assertions were wrong (perhaps both).

I will say I agree that in cases of contradictions very often it is best to confront the person about it and that is what I liked about your bleed case. I just wish to caution you that not all straight up contradictions are what they appear to be. I provided one example of that in the last post.

The vanilla pretending to be powerful just to get NKed and preserve the life of a PR? That's interesting. You're saying that not all lies are anti-town. It kinds of makes sense, but it could epically backfire if your actions of pretending to have a power get the real townie with that power to counterclaim you. Then you get to lynch a VT and expose the PR for a NK. Unless you can lie and suggest you have a power without explaining it, then you don't get the counterclaim. Yes, you convinced me that not all lies are anti-town by definition, but I'm thinking pro-town lies are (or at least should be) extremely rare and well thought.

pretty much what safari said...they don't outright claim to be the cop or anything like that but they will hint heavily...in the qt mafia case. Speculation arose about whether the game was non-vanilla or not. Ga7 (vt) said something along the lines of not being sure it was vt or not which to the casual reader is basically like saying "hey I am a power role". I don't know how rare it is to lie as a townie but I do know I do it all the time.

Frenchie-chan has told me that he very often lies even as town, and considering his skills, it'd be a good idea to trust in him. Though again you have to remember MOTIVE. MOTIVE can earn you a lot.[/quote]

here's a quick list of the people who haven't posted for the last 6 pages, approximatly 72 IRL hours:

pancakemix
ndrs
vioiet
naxus
Iliad
DoomYoshi
karelpietertje
blakebowling
jeraado
sheepofdumb
nagerous
Campin_Killer Fircoal
Namliam



We'll never reach a majority if more than half the players don't bother..

And for me to go back and noted all the inactives, it means alot....First time I do it I beleive XD

How many of these people you wanna bet just pop in and post saying "I'm reading along but I cannot decide where I stand."

Well I sure as anything didn’t. Although I’m sure the timing of my post is much to be desired… x3

How many of these people you wanna bet just pop in and post saying "I'm reading along but I cannot decide where I stand."

I'm reading along and I know where I stand. I'm just really hoping that Rodion and Strike run out of steam soon so we can move on. I don't think their discussion is really benefitting the game at all, but until they've stopped any case is pretty much going to get lost in their pissing contest

You may know where you stand but as far as this post goes it doesn’t seem to be anywhere at all. Funny how Strike and Safari are so willing to accept this.

I'm reading along but I cannot decide where I stand.

Because I hate to disappoint.

Anywho, the matter at hand: I would find Rodion more suspicious if he had coerced gimli into posting the information that he did post. He did ask for more, and that is scummy. The way he has defended his cases is scummy by virtue of FOSing everyone within a 5-mile radius.

However, gimli offered his information of his own recognizance posted that information of his own recognizance and so on that point, I think Rodion is not at fault. Despite that, the debate which has been raging on so quaintly for the past few days has not produced very much at all to the point where I believe it is a smokescreen hiding his true intentions, whatever those might be.

Vote Rodion for now unless something better comes up, though I doubt it will. I don't 100% believe he's scum, but that's the direction I'm leaning.

I think you mean I’m reading along and shameless bandwagonning. This arguments so weak NES could break it.

I think what he is referring to the first item I have bold, about cleansing the world of evil. 2nd bold is just the introduction of shadow character. And the 3rd is something that I had originally missed about the shadow figure almost get killed that evening as well.

I could point a dozen IRL factions that ''wants to cleanse the world from evil'' that are without a single shadow of a doubt nothing more than brutal murderers. KKK is ( sadly ) a very good exemple of this.

So unless someone has strong evidence, we don't know the allignement of the templars. And right now we don't need someone to come forth and claim templar and says they are harmless.

You forget to note that even if someone does claim Templars and harmless it gives us no information at all as they could be very easily lying.

How is that your speculating about the theme of the game seen as scum? I mean It is unknown we all don't know. but if we make a wrong specultion its seems too be taken as scummy. I just think this is weird

I think speculating on the theme itself is more unneeded than scummy or anything.

Sorry for not posting more, school caught up hard.

Having read the argumetn between strike and rodion, I would agree with strike. Rodion has been rolefishing this entire day. When I first read Rodion's request for a name claim I had assumed he had some kind of flavour speculation investigation and would've forced bleed to either be caught in a lie or somehow admit the scummy flavour. However he was only basing his case on a bit of flavour speculation by bleed, and to boot was being very agressive at anyone who questioned Rodion's intentions or logic.

Vote Rodion

LOL!!!!! Rodion hasn’t been rolefishing the entire day. First off he didn’t want ANYONE to claim roles, and second off he only wanted 1 person to post his hole because of a valid theory, and the other he merely guessed at. Someone’s going to very bad hyperbole. Nice post for being so inactive earlier. >w>

would've forced bleed to either be caught in a lie or somehow admit the scummy flavour.

So, Iliad, now you're disputing the fact that I got an admission? Bleed admitted, but he chose to call it an "honest mistake derived from inexperience" rather than saying "ok, I'm scum, you got me".

IFOS™ Iliad. Yes, that's the invisible finger of suspicion, as visible fingers of suspicion are making people suspect me even more!

Not an admission of guilt, nor anything that conclusively points to guilt. Sure he isn't a Shakespearean character, but considering his name claim it isn't too hard to see why he thought that the game might have a Shakespearen theme.

Lolwut? I'm not sure anyone has argued this. Probably for a good reason, because it leads to lolwut.

You really had no grounds to demand a name claim, except some very shaky flavour speculation, and form the beginning you attacked everyone who disagreed with you. The way you have been rolefishing as well as omgus half the players this day, does not strike me as town.

Cult goon trying to clear a path, maybe. But not town.

It was a good case. I'm glad he brought it forward. I'm guessing when the cop claims you don't wanna hear a roleclaim?

Not an admission of guilt, nor anything that conclusively points to guilt. Sure he isn't a Shakespearean character, but considering his name claim it isn't too hard to see why he thought that the game might have a Shakespearen theme.

Because if you're Dante Alighieri (italian writer) you're totally expected to think the game might have a Shakespearean theme? Can you please make some sense out of that before I get even more scummy for OMGUSing you?

But what exactly does that have to do with being mafia? You're saying that if he had claimed a shakespeare character, then he would have been innocent, but on the flip side, if he doesn't he's automatically scummy? That's not necessarily scummy, there's no logical opposite that would automatically make him mafia. It's definitely noteworthy, and noted by me, but not an indictment of guilt in and solely by itself.

Mafia isn’t a game of definites. We don’t lynch only off of sure chances. If we did that town would lose 99% of the time. You gotta take the best case and pursue it for what it’s worth. That’s how you find the lynch.

Not an admission of guilt, nor anything that conclusively points to guilt. Sure he isn't a Shakespearean character, but considering his name claim it isn't too hard to see why he thought that the game might have a Shakespearen theme.

Because if you're Dante Alighieri (italian writer) you're totally expected to think the game might have a Shakespearean theme? Can you please make some sense out of that before I get even more scummy for OMGUSing you?

You should've noticed that when he did claim he pointed out his character's connection to shakespeare, while not being a character in his plays still could plausibly be connected.

The thing is, bleed hasn't lied. He never claimed he was a character from Shakespeare's plays, he just couldn't see the connection between knight templars and Shakespeare, while he could see his character's connection to Shakespeare.

You however jumped on him and demanded a name claim, before it was confirmed that bleed could have lied.

Intersting. In some ways it makes sense but in others it doesn't really. Sure there can be a connection but if that were to be the theme it doesn't seem to be the best fitting away. And this is how you speculate motive. It is possible that he thought like this, or had scummy thoughts.

I would just like to put a spanner in the shakespearian works here.

I am Pikachu... This could almost be a fircoal game.

I do have a Pikachu role. ;3

Man, this hasn't been easy to read up on. If I got this right, we should be able to cut a good deal out of the last few pages. The discussion between Rodion vs everyone wasn't actually worth reading. Just page after page of same opinions and defence. With a bit of metagaming here, I think we can say it's just Rodion who will stand behind his own opinions with his life.

This does not mean, however, that the reasons that caused the discussion aren't worth anything. Case still stands that Rodion has been cleverly pushing for information.

First he went after a name, stating clearly that he would GUARANTEE a solid case. After a bit of discussion, I noticed a lot of WIFOM in his thinking, and he would have found Bleed guilty one way or the other. The thing about it, is that he would probably have gotten away with it, if Rodion was able to make his actual case. The fact that he had to explain himself made matters bad for him.

Gimli comes into play, and Rodion immediatly starts nudging towards a claim, albeit without actually asking.

All in all, it's a lot of fishing going on. The possibility of trying to figure flavour out doesn't work here, as there are plenty of other paths to follow regarding flavour.

For now, it's enough to keep my vote on him.

Tell me about it.

Iliad also voted on me.

Fixed. Obrigado.

Why tell the mod this. Your honesty is good, but if you are pro-town, its better to let the mod forget the votes on you.

A useless post quoting a cliche run of the mill "Rodion is scum" with little reason.

[

Iliad also voted on me.

Fixed. Obrigado.

Why tell the mod this. Your honesty is good, but if you are pro-town, its better to let the mod forget the votes on you.

...WHAT?!

Are you telling me that cheating is a good way for town not to get lynched?


massivefosomguswifomlal violet


There is no reason not to get a vote count corrected. First, it's what you call honesty and fair-play. And sportmanship. Second, it prevents an accidental hammer.

What they said.

Rodion has been somewhat rolefishing the whole day. He seems to be really over focused on the Flavor spec. Without another real lead and the numerous other reasons everyones brought fowards

Unvote vote Rodion

Seriously where are these cases coming from? It sounds like you’re just repeating the popular opinion said above you.

It would be really good if someone can give a brief summary of the rodion bandwagon.

Weak

3 - Guilty as charged. Would have done it again if given another opportunity.

It was a natural reaction to question someone who asks for a name claim out of the blue and expects everyone to be fine with it based on faith. It is not a good reaction to FOS everyone going against it.

Wait, wasn't that me who did that?

Now I see where Rodion is going with this, quite clever. I'd put some pressure on Bleed_Green, but it seems that certain people *ahem freezie and ndrs ahem* think that I'm pushing for the easy lynch, so I'll wait and hammer later if need be.

Here is the thing...No one actually said they wanted to hammer. Freezie and Naxus said they were willing to pressure more if the scenario called for it and Saf lended support to the wagon and said he was willing to hammer if it came to that point...basically if bleed was not able to come up with a decent defense and he was the consensus lynch for the day he would lynch. Let's look at what Safari has said about the bleed case since:

Joan of Arc?

You, sir, are growing in rank on my scum list.

We have NO reasons for gim to claim. Just shut it up instead of pressing infos of random people.

Gim, unless you are pressured with the threat of a lynch, or unless you have solid info that will help the town, you should not reveal info about your character. It gives the evil guys a better view on who to kill to harm us more.

Your info, however, revealed something that everyone should take in consideration now: The game's theme is broad enough that questioning and trying to find it out will hurt us more than help at this point of the game. Later, we'll see. For now, it helps more the mafia to make fake claims than help us.

I want to see bleed getting some more pressure simply because of his weird acting that Rodion found out. Right now we're wasting time trying to find something we don't need to figure out yet.

I tried to warn that making bleed give up information without pressure was a slippery slope, and this is simply proving that warning. As of right now Rodion, with Bleed at the very least nameclaiming, I see no real case on him besides flavor speculation. Sure, additional pressure may cause him to reveal the role, I will give you that, but to continue to speculate on individual roles is much more detrimental to town than speculating on the game theme. Of course the question could be begged, if Bleed wasn't from a Shakespeare game, why the speculation about just Shakespeare characters, but I don't think it's a lynchable offense in and of itself.

i am starting to get the feeling that i revealed to much

but this quote below is why i did. i thought it would help the town more if i revealed some information on my charactor.

however it is best not to unless you know it will help the town.

but from what i have read it helped the mafia more.

Not really, man, don't worry. People are overreacting to put me in a bad light and get some suspicion away from Bleed.

You said "french character from the beggining of the 1400s". I don't see how that weakens the town at all. Why?
a) we don't know if you're telling the truth
b) assuming you're telling the truth, we don't know if your character is, to put it simply (since this is your first game), "good" or "evil"
c) if you're "evil" (mafia or 3rd-party) the town didn't get weak at all, as nothing from their own side was revealed
d) if you're "good" (town or some harmless types of 3rd-party), the evil guys know that already, in part (mafia knows you are not mafia, multiplayer 3rd-parties know you're not part of their 3rd-party)

The way I see it, that is all harmless. I'll know tell you how what you did could harm the town.

a) there's some lyncher out there (or some other role) trying to get a french character from the early 1400s killed (or recruited for whatever winning condition they have). You did make it easier on them by saying you're french from early 1400s.

That's it. The Joan of Arc question (know I'm talking to everyone) I made is really irrelevant from a searching perspective. Why? Well, in a game with so many themes and centuries, if I had to kill/recruit/lynch a character named Joan of Arc, for instance, knowing Gimli was a french character from the early 1400s would've been enough. I would not have risked myself by openly asking it (that's WIFOM, I know - you can trust me if you want to).

Other than that slim possibility, the one way you could have hurt the town was if you mentioned your power, which you didn't. So, as I said in the beginning of this post, man, it's cool, don't worry about what you've done as people are just trying to make a tempest in a teapot.

But, yes, do not reveal your powers.

Again, where is the suspicion on bleed. Half your case revolved around him nameclaiming, and now that he did so, I don't see how the case you have on him can continue. Flavor spec is all well and good, but I don't believe that basing an entire case on just flavor spec is valid. It looks a bit like tunnel vision to me.

Safari, you want to talk about Bleed?

How could Dante Alighieri see Templars and shadows and still only speculate about Romeo and Juliet characters? And not understand the Templar's involvement?

Quoting just for you.

Think of it this way (simplified version for didactic purposes):

1 - Your character is "triangle".
2 - You see someone claiming "grape" and saying he was lovers with someone everyone considers to be "apple" (from the famous "Grape and Apple" book by this famous writer called "Farmer").
3 - Then you see N1 scene mentioning "shield" defending "sword", "shield" dying and his brother "spear" mourning his death.
4 - There's also this "dolphin" guy lurking in the shadows and surviving only due to his inhuman powers.
5 - Then you start to speculate on 3rd-parties, being only able to name fruits ("watermellon") and have the hardest time ever understanding why there would be "weapon" characters in what is obviously a "fruit game".
6 - Someone asks: "buddy, what's your name?"
7 - Everyone dislikes the question and forces him to ultimately rephrase it.
8 - That guy rephrases his question to "can you at least tell me if you are a fruit?"
9 - You answer: "I'm a geometric shape."


Does that even make sense?!

No, I'm saying I understand that argument. What I'm saying is that not understanding the theme (especially since the theme was hidden from us) in and of itself is not enough for me to vote him. I'm saying I'll need more evidence to throw my vote on Bleed. Flavor spec+ say bandwagonning or something is enough for me to vote someone, but pure flavor spec isn't to me.

Man I could cut the sarcasm with a knife... Really Rodion, I understand the case, I just don't think it's strong enough to warrant a vote. Props for trying, but I'm not buying it.

Not an admission of guilt, nor anything that conclusively points to guilt. Sure he isn't a Shakespearean character, but considering his name claim it isn't too hard to see why he thought that the game might have a Shakespearen theme.

Because if you're Dante Alighieri (italian writer) you're totally expected to think the game might have a Shakespearean theme? Can you please make some sense out of that before I get even more scummy for OMGUSing you?

But what exactly does that have to do with being mafia? You're saying that if he had claimed a shakespeare character, then he would have been innocent, but on the flip side, if he doesn't he's automatically scummy? That's not necessarily scummy, there's no logical opposite that would automatically make him mafia. It's definitely noteworthy, and noted by me, but not an indictment of guilt in and solely by itself.

So basically you are trying to exaggerate the support your case got and use it as a shield against those accusing you now.

Thank you for pointing out Safari's Flip-flopping. Didn't even notice that. I should add it to the list of safari's scummy things.

Strike, not sure you understood the Safari remark. Nagerous wanted a brief explanation on my wagon and I narrated the story. I never said the people that joined Bleed's wagon stood by it until the end and it was obviously not the case from the fact that 2 out of 3 ppl on the wagon (myself not included) are currently voting on me. I'm not exaggerating support at all, I just told what I considered to be the story in 10 simple lines. If you wish to ammend it or even make a totally different summary for Nag, go ahead. Just don't try to spin things: I said the wagon on Bleed got 4 people and it did. It doesn't anymore, but it can't change the fact that it did in the past and that the line mentioning it in my summary to Nagerous was not false.

I'm glad you at least consider Bleed's explanation to be very weak, by the way.

I'll clarify here since that quote of mine seems to be a point of contention. Yes, at the time, the Bleed paradox was quite interesting, as it seemed to imply that he must be either lying or confused. However, I wasn't 100% in favor of just throwing a straight bandwagon vote because I couldn't find other scummy actions that I could add to the case. That and I've already been accused of bandwagonning twice, and I don't think a third time would be particularly good for me. Consider it a half vote if you will. If other people also believed that flavor spec was enough to lynch, I wasn't going to filibuster until a deadline, but I needed to see more evidence (from Rodion or someone else) that Bleed was scummy and not just confused about the theme (as I was and still am to some degree).

When someone barely posts it's hard to find anything on them besides scumarining. ;3

Humh. This seems odd. Something like this would be in the role PM usually.

Probably not, since commander didn't mod-kill him. He probably paraphrased it enough.

TOTALLY UNRELATED!!!

To be honest confirming he is telling the truth about his role by testing the lynch does not sound like a bad deal and considering I still think it a bit unlikely he is town I do not feel like moving my vote as of yet. However it also seems that commander will not explain whether the day would end or not if he was unlynchable. So at the very least we should at least question a few other people.

Staying on the case for little reason? Sounds like you want a wasted lynch. ;3

which I still find somewhat likely.

See above!

So we're in agreement to kill Rodion to test his claim?
Vote Rodion (Should be L-3)

Also, I'd like to remind anyone that wasn't in terminator that Rodion is very good at fake claiming. I was legit the cop and he made up enough story to get me killed.

SHAMELESS BANDWAGON!!!


W00T! I finally finished the thread!

Anyway these are my end results I believe that Rodion is town and that everything is did is perfectly explainable if you actually think about the MOTIVE. First off anyone that thinks he’s rolefishing NEEDS TO SERIOUISLY RETHINK THEIR SKILL IN THIS GAME.* It is as clear as day that he had a valid case on Bleed. As for Gimil that fact of the matter is he already told a good amount of his claim, Rodion just made a guess to his role. No it wasn’t the best thing to do, but it was in Gimil’s court to respond to Rodion’s thoughts. The fact that he didn’t shows little harm done to the town. I mean it’s easy to see how Rodion could be excited at thinking he knew who it was and posting it out there. I don’t think Rodion has the experience to know that this is actually good information for the scum to get their hands on. I don’t blame him for what he did. I don’t think it’s smart but it’s for sure not something to lynch him over. And it most CERTAINLY isn’t rolefishing. Rolefishing could be trying to actually get the roles rather than just the names of characters. Roles = important. Characters = not so much. Btw if Rodion was scum yelling out Joan of Arc would be pretty stupid as it’d be smarter to just let his faction know his thoughts instead of the whole town. So wake me up when this is actually scummy.

Rodion’s defense… left much to be desired however I do think he’s town. I can perfectly see why he’d argue the way he would. Maybe I’m putting myself to much into this but I know I’d argue strongly for all my cases. (mainly cause I have an extremely high emotional attachment to most stuff, so insults about things I like and things I’ve come up with and stuff hurt me on the inside :/ ) I don’t think Rodion knows how to property defend himself yet and I also think that part of the things he was using as a defense and things that may seem intuitive to us more experienced but less so for those who are not. I also think that Strike and Safari have been doing a good deal to try to push all the blame onto the Rodion. If you look at it you’ll notice the cases aren’t actually very strong, what they’re doing is they’re just provoking Rodion more and more so he can dig himself into a hole. The end result is this wagon. If you were to look at the beginning the idea of him being voted for asking “Joan of Arc” is laughable.

As far as scum goes I’m most suspicious of Strike, Safari and Violet. Strike and Safari have been trying to manipulate the Rodion case and dig himself into a hole. Violet has been skimming the whole game and a rough amount of 0% of her posts makes any sense. Also I’d like to add Illy because his cases seem very hyperbolic for very little.

So in scummary I believe that Rodion became too attached to his case (and I can see why as I think it was a great find) and this blinded him allowing Strike and Safari to run him into a hole. Despite how things may look he is likely town and to waste a lynch right now may not be the greatest idea. However I will say if we do prove that he is town with it, it may be use to go after Strike and Safari after.

*No I’m not serious but seeing everyone blindly call it rolefishing when it can be easily explained it’s aggravating to read.

[Fircoal]

Oops I think I broke the page.

23? Seriously?

How many pages were there in POTC?

About the same though I think it had a higher percentage of text to quote ratio. x3

[Rodion]

Unvote myself so I get time to read Fircoal's wall of text.

[DoomYoshi]

This:

I'm not asking for post quantity, I'm asking for post quality. 1 well presented case per day is much better than 10 fluff posts that give you the illusion of activity while saying nothing.

Says the king of fluff. Your post count since the cut-scene is 15, hardly mentioning the scene at all. In all of these post you are going down the safest and most neutral way possible. First very actively advocating for pressure on Nam, and then putting pressure on me, which again is safer then going after the more "experienced guys", as you put it. Very safe.

I'll have to read back on you to see if there is anything worth pursuing.

And this:

Sorry I have been extremely busy with work that I have not really had much chance to catch up on my reading on this post, I have done a lot of reading up just trying to understand how romeo & juliet and the knights templar play in.. if this is a classic then there good easily be a third party, I did some reading and third party could be Paris the prince of Verona that Juliet was promised to before meeting Romeo.

I am still trying to wrap my head a round why Knights Templars are involved???

It must be a mix of several different factions from across the medieval timeline. Although I'm not 100% sure what the alignments are, I'm pretty sure the Knights Templar are town.

But I will try to get the submariners more active in lieu of a better case. It's not like there was nothing to discuss today that would elicit no response.

unvote vote ndrs

Safariguy5 is obviously trying to lead the discussion away from the cut-scene (which is mostly about the Knights Templar) and talk fluff, and is also trying to protect them by saying he's pretty sure they are town.
The last thing is especially scummy to me. How can anyone really believe that the Templars are town? They are Knights! And a very elitist Order! Obviously NOT town. This is also confirmed now with Rodions excellent color catch.

Also, Safariguy5 is doing a good job trying to point us at Namliam, who very likely could be town (because Romeo is). Namliam could also be Mafia or something else – we don't know – but my point is: If Safariguy5 is a Knight, he wouldn't care if Namliam is Town, Mafia, or whatever.

To me, every Safariguy5 post makes sense if he a Knight.

vote Safariguy and FOS at those who try to defend him.

Two things.
1) Basing off of cut scenes is not the best way to play mafia. At least imo it’s pretty boring and doesn’t actually show the real scumminess. I’d gladly take attention off of it.
2) If he’s a knight, then he’s probably 3rd party. Really at this point we should focus on SCUM not 3rd party.

When saf is pretty sure of something, it means he is involved somehow. unvote vote saf.

Also, Bleed, you can give the information if you want. Nobody is stopping you... I am beginning to think it might be best for you to give it now rather than risk an NK and our investigation going nowhere.

Sure about what? Please elaborate.

You are sure about the Knights Templar (who are clearly third-party) being town.

The only way he could be sure of that is if he was a pro-town Knight. X3 So if he knows for sure than he’s town. XD

So fircoal claims that saf must be a Knight if he is sure.

What makes you so sure they're not town? As Com9 himself brought up, we had Christians, Scientologists and Atheists, all with recruiting powers in Post Apoc. Now, they weren't cult factions, and they didn't have much effect on win conditions of the recruited people. We haven't seen anything yet that suggests the Knights are cult or anti town yet. I see no recruiting, and no NK abilities for the Knights in the scene. I can assure you I'm not a knight, but nothing from the Night Scene indicates to me their anti town. The shadow with the reflexes is much more higher on my anti town list than the Templars are.

FYI: The different religious factions had different colors to their roles too.

Yet saf is not a Knight. Either fircoal is wrong, or saf is lying.

[Fircoal]

This:

I'm not asking for post quantity, I'm asking for post quality. 1 well presented case per day is much better than 10 fluff posts that give you the illusion of activity while saying nothing.

Says the king of fluff. Your post count since the cut-scene is 15, hardly mentioning the scene at all. In all of these post you are going down the safest and most neutral way possible. First very actively advocating for pressure on Nam, and then putting pressure on me, which again is safer then going after the more "experienced guys", as you put it. Very safe.

I'll have to read back on you to see if there is anything worth pursuing.

And this:

Sorry I have been extremely busy with work that I have not really had much chance to catch up on my reading on this post, I have done a lot of reading up just trying to understand how romeo & juliet and the knights templar play in.. if this is a classic then there good easily be a third party, I did some reading and third party could be Paris the prince of Verona that Juliet was promised to before meeting Romeo.

I am still trying to wrap my head a round why Knights Templars are involved???

It must be a mix of several different factions from across the medieval timeline. Although I'm not 100% sure what the alignments are, I'm pretty sure the Knights Templar are town.

But I will try to get the submariners more active in lieu of a better case. It's not like there was nothing to discuss today that would elicit no response.

unvote vote ndrs

Safariguy5 is obviously trying to lead the discussion away from the cut-scene (which is mostly about the Knights Templar) and talk fluff, and is also trying to protect them by saying he's pretty sure they are town.
The last thing is especially scummy to me. How can anyone really believe that the Templars are town? They are Knights! And a very elitist Order! Obviously NOT town. This is also confirmed now with Rodions excellent color catch.

Also, Safariguy5 is doing a good job trying to point us at Namliam, who very likely could be town (because Romeo is). Namliam could also be Mafia or something else – we don't know – but my point is: If Safariguy5 is a Knight, he wouldn't care if Namliam is Town, Mafia, or whatever.

To me, every Safariguy5 post makes sense if he a Knight.

vote Safariguy and FOS at those who try to defend him.

Two things.
1) Basing off of cut scenes is not the best way to play mafia. At least imo it’s pretty boring and doesn’t actually show the real scumminess. I’d gladly take attention off of it.
2) If he’s a knight, then he’s probably 3rd party. Really at this point we should focus on SCUM not 3rd party.

When saf is pretty sure of something, it means he is involved somehow. unvote vote saf.

Also, Bleed, you can give the information if you want. Nobody is stopping you... I am beginning to think it might be best for you to give it now rather than risk an NK and our investigation going nowhere.

Sure about what? Please elaborate.

You are sure about the Knights Templar (who are clearly third-party) being town.

The only way he could be sure of that is if he was a pro-town Knight. X3 So if he knows for sure than he’s town. XD

So fircoal claims that saf must be a Knight if he is sure.

What makes you so sure they're not town? As Com9 himself brought up, we had Christians, Scientologists and Atheists, all with recruiting powers in Post Apoc. Now, they weren't cult factions, and they didn't have much effect on win conditions of the recruited people. We haven't seen anything yet that suggests the Knights are cult or anti town yet. I see no recruiting, and no NK abilities for the Knights in the scene. I can assure you I'm not a knight, but nothing from the Night Scene indicates to me their anti town. The shadow with the reflexes is much more higher on my anti town list than the Templars are.

FYI: The different religious factions had different colors to their roles too.

Yet saf is not a Knight. Either fircoal is wrong, or saf is lying.

My point is saf is not so sure that they're town. Unless something told him that its true there is NO way to be sure.