San Francisco Mafia- Aage, Safari and Kernov Win!!!

[Dlanor A. Knox]

Someone tried to kill me last night! Apparently I was one-time bullet-proof. I got edocsil guilty. vote edocsil

What? "Apparently" implies you didn't know before hand.

Which implies you don't know about your own role.

Which implies this might be a big 'ol fake claim.

Hmmm

[Victor Sullivan]

Someone tried to kill me last night! Apparently I was one-time bullet-proof. I got edocsil guilty. vote edocsil

What? "Apparently" implies you didn't know before hand.

Right. I found out when I got my investigation result.

Which implies you don't know about your own role.

Just that part.

Which implies this might be a big 'ol fake claim.

No...

[Flow520]

Actually several interesting things.

1. The two lovers are playing tag team again.
2. I was not happy that three townies died, I was relived there were not more deaths like thought there was going to be. Faction games are often kill heavy.
3. Am I being accused of being the mob, part of the prisoners or the zodiac killer? If victor is telling the truth the only thing I can be is a prisoner.
4. It is a damn good thing that Commander didn't claim and name the other prisoners. Knowledge is a sword that cuts both ways. So lets say he calls out the prisoners who knows who everyone is? The scum. The scum know their members, they know the prisoners, and that leaves just the town. Every kill during the night would be against a townie, while during the day the town lynched the prisoners. Two or three days down the line you will have no leads and face a mafia that is likely as large as the town. See now why I glad he didn't claim? The only time a traitor can claim is when it is time for the final blow. Any other time in any game will leave him the traitor dead out of vengeance, and in faction game like this it will leave the town crippled.

I dont agree with #4. Town is now in a pretty bad spot as it is.
And Commander9 had more options than just be silent or mass claim. He could have revealed the identity of only one member and asked for protection during the night contingent on the information leading to lynching scum. No doctors have been killed in this game yet, and no one had yet made an irrefutable role claim that would necessitate a doctors night action, so it would have been safe to assume that he would have been protected had his info panned out.
(Of course, this assumes that there are doctor(s) in this game, which I believe would be rather odd if there were not.)

Edocsil, this analysis of yours just makes me feel very strongly that you are scummy.
I feel compelled to act on that. Vote Edocsil

[edocsil]

Actually several interesting things.

1. The two lovers are playing tag team again.
2. I was not happy that three townies died, I was relived there were not more deaths like thought there was going to be. Faction games are often kill heavy.
3. Am I being accused of being the mob, part of the prisoners or the zodiac killer? If victor is telling the truth the only thing I can be is a prisoner.
4. It is a damn good thing that Commander didn't claim and name the other prisoners. Knowledge is a sword that cuts both ways. So lets say he calls out the prisoners who knows who everyone is? The scum. The scum know their members, they know the prisoners, and that leaves just the town. Every kill during the night would be against a townie, while during the day the town lynched the prisoners. Two or three days down the line you will have no leads and face a mafia that is likely as large as the town. See now why I glad he didn't claim? The only time a traitor can claim is when it is time for the final blow. Any other time in any game will leave him the traitor dead out of vengeance, and in faction game like this it will leave the town crippled.

I dont agree with #4. Town is now in a pretty bad spot as it is.
And Commander9 had more options than just be silent or mass claim. He could have revealed the identity of only one member and asked for protection during the night contingent on the information leading to lynching scum. No doctors have been killed in this game yet, and no one had yet made an irrefutable role claim that would necessitate a doctors night action, so it would have been safe to assume that he would have been protected had his info panned out.
(Of course, this assumes that there are doctor(s) in this game, which I believe would be rather odd if there were not.)

Edocsil, this analysis of yours just makes me feel very strongly that you are scummy.
I feel compelled to act on that. Vote Edocsil

Actually my argument IMO is clear and compelling. The docs wont last long if the mafia knows roughly where to shoot, and once their weak and the prisoners have been lynched mafia gets an easy endgame.

I have done my research on flow. Early D1 it was implied that she could have been bullet proof and now is saying that she wished the scum learned the alignment of every player in the game. She should know full well that the doctors protection would be short lived due to the entire towns identity being compromised. That combined with little effort to hunt scum and a general lack of activity point me in her direction.

Vote Flow

[Flow520]

Actually my argument IMO is clear and compelling.

Actually, IMO, MY argument was clear and compelling.
To summarize:
No docs dead.
Insane improbability of there being no docs in the game.
Had Commander9 claimed and provided good intel that lead to a scum lynch a doc would have protected Commander9 from NK.
If scum outted one at a time instead of all at once, power stays with town.
No advantage given to mafia.
From what I can tell, Edocsil is happy Commander9 didn't release any information on the identity of know scum. This causes suspicion that Edocsil is scum.
Then, I point out a way the information could have been released in a way that would benefit town only and Edocsil immediately attacks me by clearly misconstruing my statement...
This further increases suspicion that Edocsil is scum and makes me more confident my vote is in the right place.

[Flow520]

And that's all not to mention Edocsil's immediate OMGUS vote...

[edocsil]

Actually my argument IMO is clear and compelling.

Actually, IMO, MY argument was clear and compelling.
To summarize:
No docs dead.
Insane improbability of there being no docs in the game.
Had Commander9 claimed and provided good intel that lead to a scum lynch a doc would have protected Commander9 from NK.
If scum outted one at a time instead of all at once, power stays with town.
No advantage given to mafia.
From what I can tell, Edocsil is happy Commander9 didn't release any information on the identity of know scum. This causes suspicion that Edocsil is scum.
Then, I point out a way the information could have been released in a way that would benefit town only and Edocsil immediately attacks me by clearly misconstruing my statement...
This further increases suspicion that Edocsil is scum and makes me more confident my vote is in the right place.

Perhaps you don't get it. You are talking as if all the scum are the same. They are not, it is absolutely vital to remember that there are two factions. If you spend all of your effort on one faction, the other faction will destroy you. I am going to hazard a guess that there are 2 or 3 remaining prisoners, and 3 or 4 scum. that leaves 7 to 5 townies, one of which who is likely the Zodiac. So lets say that you spend 2 days killing off the entire prisoner population. I am assuming there are 3 prisoners and one of them gets NKed by someone. That leaves 5 kills, of which at least 3 of which likely to hit the town as they are far more townies then prisoners. The mafia kills will shread the town, and the SK and the prisoners will kill one or two townies. That puts the town at LoL with no leads to the scum that need to be lynched.

Long story short, playing follow the traitor is bad unless there is a counterpart traitor to give away the mafia as well.

[Flow520]

To start out with 4 mafia and 4 prisoners and 1 SK would be a game of >50% bad guys. So that's not likely.
I think at most we're looking at 3 true mafia, 3 prisoners and 1 SK.
Fact is that 2 mafia were killed night one. I strongly think that there has got to be only one killing role mafia member left at this point in the game. Thus, I still hold that Commander9 outting the prisoner scum one by one (with the help of a doc for protects at night) would have been a powerful play for town. However, it's not possible now and we cant change it.
Moreover, I think by your gross overestimate of the scum strength in this game that you are probably not part of any of their groups. So I am going to Unvote you.
That being said, I still find the main thrust of your argument pretty scummy.

[Flow520]

Just for general info so we can be putting clues from death scenes together more easily:
N1:
(Tails) Ralph Roe- Secret Mafia Goon (Prisoner Traitor) has been killed. (Pg19)
(Jeraado) Michael Abati- Mafia Goon has been killed (Pg19)
D2:
Joy Nordenstrom- Sensfan- Cupid has been lynched (Pg37)
N2:
Karelpietertje-Kamala D. Harris- Secret Investigator has been killed. (Pg38)
Theodore Cole- Commander 9- Traitor Prisoner- True Townsperson has been killed (Pg38)
William Harrington Leahy- Lildanbassman- Vanilla Townie has been killed. (Pg38)

[Victor Sullivan]

To start out with 4 mafia and 4 prisoners and 1 SK would be a game of >50% bad guys. So that's not likely.
I think at most we're looking at 3 true mafia, 3 prisoners and 1 SK.
Fact is that 2 mafia were killed night one. I strongly think that there has got to be only one killing role mafia member left at this point in the game. Thus, I still hold that Commander9 outting the prisoner scum one by one (with the help of a doc for protects at night) would have been a powerful play for town. However, it's not possible now and we cant change it.
Moreover, I think by your gross overestimate of the scum strength in this game that you are probably not part of any of their groups. So I am going to Unvote you.
That being said, I still find the main thrust of your argument pretty scummy.

Flow - I freaking investigated him - he's a prisoner escapee.

[edocsil]

To start out with 4 mafia and 4 prisoners and 1 SK would be a game of >50% bad guys. So that's not likely.
I think at most we're looking at 3 true mafia, 3 prisoners and 1 SK.
Fact is that 2 mafia were killed night one. I strongly think that there has got to be only one killing role mafia member left at this point in the game. Thus, I still hold that Commander9 outting the prisoner scum one by one (with the help of a doc for protects at night) would have been a powerful play for town. However, it's not possible now and we cant change it.
Moreover, I think by your gross overestimate of the scum strength in this game that you are probably not part of any of their groups. So I am going to Unvote you.
That being said, I still find the main thrust of your argument pretty scummy.

Flow - I freaking investigated him - he's a prisoner escapee.

If you aren't a bluffing scum, which I strongly suspect. You see, my actions will also be weighed against your words as well. I believe I have acted in the interests of the town for the duration of this game. Even if you are telling the truth, your sanity could be in question.

[Dlanor A. Knox]

I'm reading the whole game....

And it's taking a while...

[VioIet]

Vote Count

Flow (1): edoc
Edocsil(2): victor, dazey


With 12 alive it takes 6 to lynch

[aage]

To start out with 4 mafia and 4 prisoners and 1 SK would be a game of >50% bad guys. So that's not likely.
I think at most we're looking at 3 true mafia, 3 prisoners and 1 SK.
Fact is that 2 mafia were killed night one. I strongly think that there has got to be only one killing role mafia member left at this point in the game. Thus, I still hold that Commander9 outting the prisoner scum one by one (with the help of a doc for protects at night) would have been a powerful play for town. However, it's not possible now and we cant change it.
Moreover, I think by your gross overestimate of the scum strength in this game that you are probably not part of any of their groups. So I am going to Unvote you.
That being said, I still find the main thrust of your argument pretty scummy.

Flow - I freaking investigated him - he's a prisoner escapee.

If you aren't a bluffing scum, which I strongly suspect. You see, my actions will also be weighed against your words as well. I believe I have acted in the interests of the town for the duration of this game. Even if you are telling the truth, your sanity could be in question.

Strange how you immediately doubt someone who speaks up for your case. Positive, yet strange.

Still, are we going over the whole Flow thing again?

[kernov]

I agree im not sure we need to go over the Flow thing again yet.

I suggest vote drabod

I think Drabs has not contributed that much of substance yet. We did just start to apply some pressure to him on day 2 but it didnt go far enough to get much info out of him. The game also has seemed to come to a bit of a halt at the moment. So lets try this unfinished business rather than go back over old ground. just an idea.

[Victor Sullivan]

Do I need to put it in bold, 200 size, pretty colored font? Fine:

EDOCSIL IS A PRISONER ESCAPEE.

Seriously, guys, I thought our goal was to hunt scum.

[Dlanor A. Knox]

Do I need to put it in bold, 200 size, pretty colored font? Fine:

EDOCSIL IS A PRISONER ESCAPEE.

Seriously, guys, I thought our goal was to hunt scum.

Are we supposed to accept this at face value? Cause I'm having problems accepting you as a cop when you claim that you were supposed to die last night, but you "mysteriously gained a BP ability". :/

[Victor Sullivan]

Kill me tomorrow, any other day (though I can assure you I'll be dead tonight), just trust me on this one. I roleclaimed before and told you who I investigated already: daze and Flow - both innocent, or at least, not prisoner escapees. Seriously, in what ways does this sound like a fake claim? I'd ask the cop that can investigate mafia (not prisoner escapees) to help me out and prove my innocence, but that would be stupid.

[edocsil]

Kill me tomorrow, any other day (though I can assure you I'll be dead tonight), just trust me on this one. I roleclaimed before and told you who I investigated already: daze and Flow - both innocent, or at least, not prisoner escapees. Seriously, in what ways does this sound like a fake claim? I'd ask the cop that can investigate mafia (not prisoner escapees) to help me out and prove my innocence, but that would be stupid.

And is also conveniently dead...

[Victor Sullivan]

Kill me tomorrow, any other day (though I can assure you I'll be dead tonight), just trust me on this one. I roleclaimed before and told you who I investigated already: daze and Flow - both innocent, or at least, not prisoner escapees. Seriously, in what ways does this sound like a fake claim? I'd ask the cop that can investigate mafia (not prisoner escapees) to help me out and prove my innocence, but that would be stupid.

And is also conveniently dead...

Well, there you go. Doesn't that prove my innocence, then? That cop was a mafia cop, not a prisoner cop.

[aage]

Killing mafia is not the same as killing prisoner escapees, but I agree that he may be a threat. Fircoal believes you, and I have reason to believe Fircoal, so I'll throw a vote edoc'sil.

[kernov]

Just read Fircoals post about believing Sully on page 33, can you give us anymore why you believe him Fircoal? as the story against Edoc would be more postive for me.

[edocsil]

Kill me tomorrow, any other day (though I can assure you I'll be dead tonight), just trust me on this one. I roleclaimed before and told you who I investigated already: daze and Flow - both innocent, or at least, not prisoner escapees. Seriously, in what ways does this sound like a fake claim? I'd ask the cop that can investigate mafia (not prisoner escapees) to help me out and prove my innocence, but that would be stupid.

And is also conveniently dead...

Well, there you go. Doesn't that prove my innocence, then? That cop was a mafia cop, not a prisoner cop.

No all this says is that we no longer have any way of proving your innocence.

[Dlanor A. Knox]

Rather than lynching Edo OR Victor today, why don't we lynch a third player, and let Victor's thing resolve itself tomorrow?

If Victor really is a prisoner cop, the prisoners will want him dead. He'll die, and we'll know for SURE that edo is scum.

In this situation, we lose Victor (according to him, he's dying tonight no matter what ANYWAY, so that can't be stopped), but we will also have Edo die.

Most likely, ONE of Victor and Edo have to be scum (if not both... remember Mafia and Prisoners are different) and so if we let them both live today, we will catch 1 scum for sure tomorrow.

What this allows us to do is have a free lynch today, and a chance to lynch a DIFFERENT scum.

Do people like this idea? It gives us more chances at killing scum. ^_^

[kernov]

^That sounds like a plan to me. I been watching this edoc and vic thing and i wasnt sure which way to go.

My votes still on Drabs we could start there, unless someone else has a better idea.