EW's Semi-Open Matrix Madness

[strike wolf]

Loose is interesting. He was active but it didn't really feel like many people were taking him seriously. I have to think that they thought as I initially did that LC had been soft claiming PR early on. Only other player I can recall giving vibes that he may have thought that LC was a power role other than me was PMC but after the Swang flip and other factors at this point, I'm inclined to believe PMC is town.

[Ragian]

When did LC soft claim a PR?

[kongming3]

I'd assume that was about how LC kept insisting that he would assume a "hypothetical" town PR would act according to his strategy, even if they claimed otherwise. I apologize for being relatively absent last day, been busy IRL, but that's mostly cleared up now. I'd also remind any town PRs that have information to share that it'd be very helpful to come forward with that, but not to reveal how they got that information (as in which of the possible roles they might be) if possible so mafia can't determine exactly which matrix we have underway and so not know if town might have a doctor to work with who'd be able to protect our brave town PR.

Regarding Swang being town, I think that was always a somewhat probable if unfortunate outcome for us. It seems to me that if mafia had wanted to prevent a scum lynch, they would have wanted to do it earlier on day 1 and head off the Swang vote before it gathered steam and became too suspicious with the swap at the end. That said, I don't think this in any way clears the people who either lead or participated in the last-minute swap (myself included sadly, though I have stated why it seemed necessary for me to do so to ensure a lynch did end up going through rather than nothing at all), because it lead to this scenario of two days in a row of semi-free town lynches.

For today, I maintain my stance that lyching as town remains necessary, and hopefully we finally get some information from our PRs. Even if our track record thus far has been poor, a single good lynch gives us a lot of good information on who pushed for or opposed the death of a scum (*with the slight caveat that if the game goes another round with no scum deaths, a scum who was able to kill of one of their brethren to hard clear themselves might look untouchable already at 2 scum 5 townsfolk in just 2 rounds). I think the amount of discussion we managed to have day 1 and ideas like the lynch pact I supported early on to be pushed into the public sphere of debate will hopefully give enough extra intel when we start having to make tough decisions.

I will support the first person to propose a lynch candidate.

[Ragian]

Are you saying that whoever proposes a lynch today (let's say that X nominates or votes Y), then you'll just follow that blindly?

[strike wolf]

When did LC soft claim a PR?

Maybe soft-claim is a bit strong but he seemed way too interested in figuring out how the Roleblocker and other power roles would interact for a vanilla day 1. Then there was this D2:

Strike you mentioned counterstrategy - to my D1 strategy.
Obvious one N1 is to kill -1 if countering Town Tracker but -4 if countering Town JOAT who tracks N1.
-4 from number 4 Votanic was number 15 TraF.

And to be honest, I'm still not really sure what exactly LC was saying here but he mentions JOAT like he might be one?

Also Massive FOS on Kong

All this theorizing about how mafia would have redirected the lynch after Swang just reeks of scum trying to look smart and reasonable affdr the fact. Then this whole idea that "well sometimes townies die and I'll hop on the next pressure target because lynches are good for town" sounds a lot like someone who doesn't really care much about scumhunting.

[pmchugh]

Well strike read me correctly, I was definitely thinking LC was a town PR with his, "I will follow this plan if I am a PR line", although I guess that was wrong. His death very much looks like a result of wolves thinking the same thing, otherwise he wouldn't be a good target.

Hard for me to FOS strike for giving the actual reason scum made the kill in chat and given I thought the same thing.

If I had to pick scum right now I would say fusi/kong/charle.

[Charle]

If I had to pick scum right now I would say fusi/kong/charle.

Why fusi?

[SoN!c]

Oops, missed posting that here as well. LC was vanilla. This is purely flavour:
"His epitaph reads "Alas his canon was loose in the battle for Trafalgar""

The battle developed into a ferocious pounding match but the British had the advantage thanks to Nelson's strategic pre-planning and the fact his men were better trained in delivering rapid, accurate gunnery. Bringing maximum firepower and determination to the game is all. When firing finally ceased at 5.30pm, 17 enemy ships had been captured and the rest was a blazing wreck. Lord Nelson's famous last words were: "set Loose all Cannons!"


In his memorandum to his captains Lord Nelson explained his "suicide win tactic": “I think it almost impossible to bring a Fleet of forty Sail of the Line into a Line Battle in variable winds, thick weather and other circumstances which must occur, without such a loss of time that the opportunity would probably be lost of bringing the Enemy to Battle in such a manner as to make the business decisive.”

The Franco-Spanish fleet had more, larger, and often better-constructed ships than its opponent with the Santissima Trinidad being the best and largest ship ever built. The Franco-Spanish fleet also had considerably more and heavier guns than the British. So Nelson's plan was to bring his fleet close into two columns and charged directly into the Combined Fleet's guns so as to break its line. Wind changed that but the seasoned British gunners did the rest.
HMS Victory, Vice Admiral Horatio Lord Nelson's flagship, had emphatically broken the enemy's line of battle by "fast firing" thanks to the seasoned though gun crews. Fire at will : Loose Cannons! British Loose Cannons won the day at Trafalgar but not all survived

Your service will be honored Loosecanon

[Votanic]

Oops, missed posting that here as well. LC was vanilla. This is purely flavour:
"His epitaph reads "Alas his canon was loose in the battle for Trafalgar""

The battle developed into a ferocious pounding match but the British had the advantage thanks to Nelson's strategic pre-planning and the fact his men were better trained in delivering rapid, accurate gunnery. Bringing maximum firepower and determination to the game is all. When firing finally ceased at 5.30pm, 17 enemy ships had been captured and the rest was a blazing wreck. Lord Nelson's famous last words were: "set Loose all Cannons!"


In his memorandum to his captains Lord Nelson explained his "suicide win tactic": “I think it almost impossible to bring a Fleet of forty Sail of the Line into a Line Battle in variable winds, thick weather and other circumstances which must occur, without such a loss of time that the opportunity would probably be lost of bringing the Enemy to Battle in such a manner as to make the business decisive.”

The Franco-Spanish fleet had more, larger, and often better-constructed ships than its opponent with the Santissima Trinidad being the best and largest ship ever built. The Franco-Spanish fleet also had considerably more and heavier guns than the British. So Nelson's plan was to bring his fleet close into two columns and charged directly into the Combined Fleet's guns so as to break its line. Wind changed that but the seasoned British gunners did the rest.
HMS Victory, Vice Admiral Horatio Lord Nelson's flagship, had emphatically broken the enemy's line of battle by "fast firing" thanks to the seasoned though gun crews. Fire at will : Loose Cannons! British Loose Cannons won the day at Trafalgar but not all survived

Your service will be honored Loosecanon

The Famous Battle, ...As It Actually Happened!!!
https://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=22265514
Flip through the log and snapshots to re-live every death-defying moment, ...culminating in the Most Glorious Victory in History!!!
Gee, I hope I'm not making this just all about me...

[SoN!c]

Oops, missed posting that here as well. LC was vanilla. This is purely flavour:
"His epitaph reads "Alas his canon was loose in the battle for Trafalgar""

The battle developed into a ferocious pounding match but the British had the advantage thanks to Nelson's strategic pre-planning and the fact his men were better trained in delivering rapid, accurate gunnery. Bringing maximum firepower and determination to the game is all. When firing finally ceased at 5.30pm, 17 enemy ships had been captured and the rest was a blazing wreck. Lord Nelson's famous last words were: "set Loose all Cannons!"


In his memorandum to his captains Lord Nelson explained his "suicide win tactic": “I think it almost impossible to bring a Fleet of forty Sail of the Line into a Line Battle in variable winds, thick weather and other circumstances which must occur, without such a loss of time that the opportunity would probably be lost of bringing the Enemy to Battle in such a manner as to make the business decisive.”

The Franco-Spanish fleet had more, larger, and often better-constructed ships than its opponent with the Santissima Trinidad being the best and largest ship ever built. The Franco-Spanish fleet also had considerably more and heavier guns than the British. So Nelson's plan was to bring his fleet close into two columns and charged directly into the Combined Fleet's guns so as to break its line. Wind changed that but the seasoned British gunners did the rest.
HMS Victory, Vice Admiral Horatio Lord Nelson's flagship, had emphatically broken the enemy's line of battle by "fast firing" thanks to the seasoned though gun crews. Fire at will : Loose Cannons! British Loose Cannons won the day at Trafalgar but not all survived

Your service will be honored Loosecanon

The Famous Battle, ...As It Actually Happened!!!
https://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=22265514
Flip through the log and snapshots to re-live every death-defying moment, ...culminating in the Most Glorious Victory in History!!!
Gee, I hope I'm not making this just all about me...

No yur not, it's about Loosecanon and i absolutely love the man

Fourth place ever CCSL can't be wrong just like Elvis 50.000.000 fans can't be wrong

[Votanic]

Oops, missed posting that here as well. LC was vanilla. This is purely flavour:
"His epitaph reads "Alas his canon was loose in the battle for Trafalgar""

The battle developed into a ferocious pounding match but the British had the advantage thanks to Nelson's strategic pre-planning and the fact his men were better trained in delivering rapid, accurate gunnery. Bringing maximum firepower and determination to the game is all. When firing finally ceased at 5.30pm, 17 enemy ships had been captured and the rest was a blazing wreck. Lord Nelson's famous last words were: "set Loose all Cannons!"


In his memorandum to his captains Lord Nelson explained his "suicide win tactic": “I think it almost impossible to bring a Fleet of forty Sail of the Line into a Line Battle in variable winds, thick weather and other circumstances which must occur, without such a loss of time that the opportunity would probably be lost of bringing the Enemy to Battle in such a manner as to make the business decisive.”

The Franco-Spanish fleet had more, larger, and often better-constructed ships than its opponent with the Santissima Trinidad being the best and largest ship ever built. The Franco-Spanish fleet also had considerably more and heavier guns than the British. So Nelson's plan was to bring his fleet close into two columns and charged directly into the Combined Fleet's guns so as to break its line. Wind changed that but the seasoned British gunners did the rest.
HMS Victory, Vice Admiral Horatio Lord Nelson's flagship, had emphatically broken the enemy's line of battle by "fast firing" thanks to the seasoned though gun crews. Fire at will : Loose Cannons! British Loose Cannons won the day at Trafalgar but not all survived

Your service will be honored Loosecanon

The Famous Battle, ...As It Actually Happened!!!
https://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=22265514
Flip through the log and snapshots to re-live every death-defying moment, ...culminating in the Most Glorious Victory in History!!!
Gee, I hope I'm not making this just all about me...

No yur not, it's about Loosecanon and i absolutely love the man

Fourth place ever CCSL can't be wrong just like Elvis 50.000.000 fans can't be wrong

So... you two are multis, right?

[SoN!c]

Oops, missed posting that here as well. LC was vanilla. This is purely flavour:
"His epitaph reads "Alas his canon was loose in the battle for Trafalgar""

The battle developed into a ferocious pounding match but the British had the advantage thanks to Nelson's strategic pre-planning and the fact his men were better trained in delivering rapid, accurate gunnery. Bringing maximum firepower and determination to the game is all. When firing finally ceased at 5.30pm, 17 enemy ships had been captured and the rest was a blazing wreck. Lord Nelson's famous last words were: "set Loose all Cannons!"


In his memorandum to his captains Lord Nelson explained his "suicide win tactic": “I think it almost impossible to bring a Fleet of forty Sail of the Line into a Line Battle in variable winds, thick weather and other circumstances which must occur, without such a loss of time that the opportunity would probably be lost of bringing the Enemy to Battle in such a manner as to make the business decisive.”

The Franco-Spanish fleet had more, larger, and often better-constructed ships than its opponent with the Santissima Trinidad being the best and largest ship ever built. The Franco-Spanish fleet also had considerably more and heavier guns than the British. So Nelson's plan was to bring his fleet close into two columns and charged directly into the Combined Fleet's guns so as to break its line. Wind changed that but the seasoned British gunners did the rest.
HMS Victory, Vice Admiral Horatio Lord Nelson's flagship, had emphatically broken the enemy's line of battle by "fast firing" thanks to the seasoned though gun crews. Fire at will : Loose Cannons! British Loose Cannons won the day at Trafalgar but not all survived

Your service will be honored Loosecanon

The Famous Battle, ...As It Actually Happened!!!
https://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=22265514
Flip through the log and snapshots to re-live every death-defying moment, ...culminating in the Most Glorious Victory in History!!!
Gee, I hope I'm not making this just all about me...

No yur not, it's about Loosecanon and i absolutely love the man

Fourth place ever CCSL can't be wrong just like Elvis 50.000.000 fans can't be wrong

So... you two are multis, right?

Dang, after 2 years hiding stuff and master minding multi aliasses you GOT us or not - .... sigh - ughhh - did you read anything about the battle of Trafalagar? Probably not but i got to respect you Vot - you are a "made man" of mafia games in my book

Capo Vota

[pmchugh]

If I had to pick scum right now I would say fusi/kong/charle.

Why fusi?

Similar enough thinking to target LC, quieter than usual.

[*Pixar*]

Bad News we are losing vanilla townies left and right. Good news is we still have our PR's. I find it hard to believe that we have no info to go off of from their investigations. Seems to me at this point in the game we need to start analyzing the data we have from our night actions. Otherwise, this game is over for town...

[Maxleod]

Bad News we are losing vanilla townies left and right. Good news is we still have our PR's. I find it hard to believe that we have no info to go off of from their investigations. Seems to me at this point in the game we need to start analyzing the data we have from our night actions. Otherwise, this game is over for town...TOWN PR'S SHOW YOURSELVLES NOW!!!

Our PR's will reveal their role and action when they deem it relevant.

Vote Pixar

[Votanic]

Had to deal with Sonic (...so annoying).

Anyway... This is my first real Day 3 Post, ...and it's kind of a doozie.

Relatively Important Post (i.e. FACTS). Please Read.

I am a Town Power Role (such as they are), ...and I have some intel.

First, two important caveats...
1. The information I gathered isn't all that. I don't have anything really juicy like who killed LC or Traf.
2. I'm not going to name any names at this point. I think Town might get more mileage out of this, if I parcel out the details gradually.

So here it goes...
I am Town's 3-shot Tracker.
That means the Matrix is either A, B, 1, or 2.
Scum has known that detail from the start, now you all do. In fact, Scum also knows if it is (A or 2) or (B or 1).

On the first night, I tracked swang... That was a wipeout, now unsurprisingly, he went nowhere...
Last night however, I tracked somebody, and he did visit somebody else! Nobody can be more surprised by this bit of good luck than me.

For now I'm going to call the visitor Player X and the visited Player Y.

Here are the two general possibilities:
1. Player X is a Town Power Role (either Motion Detector, Inventor, or JOAT) and Player Y could be either Scum or Town.
2. Player X is a Scum Power Role (either Watcher, Tracker, or Role Blocker) and Player Y is definitely Town.

Note 1: Player X could not be the Town Doctor (even if he exists) because last night was an even night.
However, tonight is an odd night, and I sure wouldn't mind some Doctor protection , ...assuming any is even available.

Note 2: My Tracker power does not allow me to eavesdrop on scum planning the night kill. So no need to even consider that possibility.

Okay, ... Discuss.

[fusibaseball]

Vot, I have reviewed your post this AM and am a bit confused. I believe your claim and think you are Town (I already did prior to your claim), but help me understand.

You are claiming 3-shot Tracker.

1) This implies you only have 1 use left. Can you confirm? This role seems like it would be strong later in the game when there are fewer Vanillas to waste the ability on, so likely would have been best to save uses. I would recommend saving your third use for a bit when it could be game-changing and you have a high likelihood of tracking a Scum in action.

If I look at the matrix, 3-shot Tracker means we are playing on rows 1 or 2 or columns A or B (as you say). What's interesting to me is these rows and columns are mutually exclusive with Mafia Goon. This should remove a lot of confusion from any tracking results you receive because Mafia necessarily has 2 PR's and 1 Goon. In other words, I'd find it highly unlikely that a Mafia player would return an idle result Night 1. If they had a second goon who was sitting on their thumbs not doing anything, then maybe, but in all likelihood this means the Goon is the errand boy while the Roleblocker is active each night and 2-shot Watcher/Tracker is selectively active.

2) Why did you not stop the Swang wagon if you returned an idle result from him Night 1? While it's POSSIBLE he could have been the 2-shot watcher or 2-shot tracker (one of these roles is necessarily in play) and electing not to use his PR, this is a 1/14 = 7% chance and is quite low.

------------------------------

Also, while I'm at it, I'll just provide some info for where my head is at re: alignments.

I'm fairly confident PMC & Vot are Town and would not be interested in voting for either player. I also lean Town for both Charle and Kong as their reasoning has made the most sense to me every step along the way.

Everyone else is neutral or honestly leans Scum at this point. If I had to vote anyone right now, it would probably be King actually, with Pix second. I think Scum's most likely line given the revealed Town alignments would be to A) not vote at all Day 1 given all the players in question were Town and it doesn't matter who got lynched, then B) bandwagon another easy Town vote on Swang. This correlates with King and Pix's voting patterns.

[Kingm]

Finaly some info so if what Vot says is true, then our matrix is 2, how this will help us find the scum, I'm not sure about, have to sleep on that I guess.

[Votanic]

Vot, I have reviewed your post this AM and am a bit confused. I believe your claim and think you are Town (I already did prior to your claim), but help me understand.

You are claiming 3-shot Tracker.

1) This implies you only have 1 use left. Can you confirm? This role seems like it would be strong later in the game when there are fewer Vanillas to waste the ability on, so likely would have been best to save uses. I would recommend saving your third use for a bit when it could be game-changing and you have a high likelihood of tracking a Scum in action.

3 - 2 = 1. The math looks good to me. I'm not beig believer in saving PRs (or revealing intel learned from them) until late in the game. There is always a far to good chance I won't be around then.
And, in this game, my PR would shut off when there was only one scum left... Though admittedly that isn't even close to happening.

If I look at the matrix, 3-shot Tracker means we are playing on rows 1 or 2 or columns A or B (as you say). What's interesting to me is these rows and columns are mutually exclusive with Mafia Goon. This should remove a lot of confusion from any tracking results you receive because Mafia necessarily has 2 PR's and 1 Goon. In other words, I'd find it highly unlikely that a Mafia player would return an idle result Night 1. If they had a second goon who was sitting on their thumbs not doing anything, then maybe, but in all likelihood this means the Goon is the errand boy while the Roleblocker is active each night and 2-shot Watcher/Tracker is selectively active.

2) Why did you not stop the Swang wagon if you returned an idle result from him Night 1? While it's POSSIBLE he could have been the 2-shot watcher or 2-shot tracker (one of these roles is necessarily in play) and electing not to use his PR, this is a 1/14 = 7% chance and is quite low.

Point taken. I'm dumb.
I suppose I could argue that he was being a bad, useless Townie (mostly true)... but even then, I should have stuck to my guns and voted LC, just on principle.
Fortunately, it all evened out when scum killed LC, who really does seem a bad choice for a night-kill, considering that his constant blather was such an anti-town distraction....
Let's be clear here, LC's town-status does not add any validity to his crazy schemes.

I'm fairly confident PMC & Vot are Town and would not be interested in voting for either player. I also lean Town for both Charle and Kong as their reasoning has made the most sense to me every step along the way.

Hmm, This comes off as potentially scummy. I'm not sure I like having my not-quite-confirmed-but-close towniness muddled or diluted with the questionable qualities of others...

Everyone else is neutral or honestly leans Scum at this point. If I had to vote anyone right now, it would probably be King actually, with Pix second. I think Scum's most likely line given the revealed Town alignments would be to A) not vote at all Day 1 given all the players in question were Town and it doesn't matter who got lynched, then B) bandwagon another easy Town vote on Swang. This correlates with King and Pix's voting patterns.

[/quote]

Other Day Three Observations
• Pixar wanting PRs to come forward could be read as scummy... but how can I seriously fault him for that, when I am just such a PR who decided to come forward.
Still, it is quite different to suggest that somebody else do it regardless of context, ...instead of do so oneself, with personal context known.
• Conversely, Max wanting PRs to stay quiet has a townish vibe to it... but could also be a towny-sounding scum-ploy to keep intel from being deseminated.
So in both cases, the wine glasses spin like mad, ...and no definite conclusion can be inferred.

Looking again at the survivor list...
Strike Wolf
Devante
pmchugh
Votanic
Kingm
kongming3
*pixar*
Maxleod
Ragian
Charle
Fusibaseball
The big thing that jumps out immediately is...
Where the heck is devante!?

Devante, you are definitely waaay out-skulking swang or Pixar at this point.
It's beginning to feel quite scummy, like you don't want to be noticed...
If so, that has now backfired, because I am definitely noticing.

A forum search on Devante as author says that he last posted in this thread on ...27 May?!?! Is that right? Is that actually right?!

[pmchugh]

Would be good if mod could track and prod/replace people.

I think this is good timing vot, can you tell us who they visited at least so we may judge the liklihood of various roles visiting?

I don't see any good reason to conceal who player Y is.

[Extreme Ways]

Sent Dev a DM

[strike wolf]

Agree with PMC. Otherwise this claim was only helpful in narrowing down which matrix were in while painting a target on your back.

Updated list based on current info:

Town

1. Me
2. Vot-Tracker barring counterclaim

Townish:

1. PMC-I don't think he plays D1 and D2 in regards to Swang the way he did as scum.
2. King-maybe I'm falling back into bad habits of trusting new players too much but I am leaning to believe that his claims of uncertainty in this game have been real and I haven't gotten any strong scum vibes from him.

Neutral

1. Max-I haven't played too many games with Max and the only impression I've gotten of him at all is that he is fairly direct in how he plays.
2. Ragian-Im more ambivalent towards Ragian at the moment. He's active and questioning but he seemed confident that Swang would flip town. Only way he'd know that is if he is scum.
3. Charle-I was leaning town early on Charle but I think his tunneling on PMC and Ragian was a bit more suspect D2 and PMC who has played with him as scum seems to believe he is scum. So I'm a lot less confident in my early read.
4. Pix-Ive gone back and forth between scummy and neutral on him. I lean slightly scummish at the moment after pressing for roles to claim information which I don't think helps town at the moment.

Scummish:

1. Fusi-I can't really pinpoint too much at the moment that he's actually said super scummy but he's been very quiet this game.

Scummy:

1. Kong-Hes been tripping my radar since D1. His latest post today felt too lackadaisical about how the lynches have been going for town.

MIA:

1. Devante-Was suspicious of him D1 but he made an early D2 post that made me think he was more likely town. Either way, he's MIA.

[Devante]

Getting in trouble feels, like I'm back in school. Apologies to everyone, RL has just been extremely hectic so been trying to just stay up on turns with not much time for anything else, getting covered in some but still missed turns so it's been a bit of MIA all around. I'll try to stay up on this more and if I can't I'll let mod know.

Reading up trying to catch up but mainly glossing through as it seems like a lot of fluff mostly so far from posts especially D3 and now we're down three town. Looking at the last lynch on Swang and kill on LC seems like there might be something there. Why LC? A distraction yes with his over complicated plans but that would be of benefit to scum. So why kill him. Unless he was on to something or probing too close to who scum is. Will have to read look through those better maybe back to D1 and try to remove the garbage that was also there.

Final vote count D2 was:

swang (6) - Vot, charle, fusibaseball, pix, strike wolf, kingm
Charle (1) - PMC
Votanic (2) - swang, LC
Strike (1) - ragian

Strongly think there's some scum in that Swang vote. To me right now leaning based on posts since D2 here's what I see:

Leaning town is Ragian, Vot (mainly because of PR claim but see questions below), King

Leaning scum is Charle, kong, with more slight leans for Pix and Fusi

Strike, PMC, Max (His one liners seem to not give much info but everyone seems to agree this is his play style), I'm not sure what to make of. Think I'll need to go back to D1 maybe to look over that day. Think one of these might be scum but unlikely all three.

Of note for Vot, why did you start the vote on Swang if you had visited him the night before with no visible action taking place? I mean no action doesn't necessarily clear him but seems odd to start it on someone you checked for me. Just want some clarification.

[SoN!c]

Getting in trouble feels, like I'm back in school. Apologies to everyone, RL has just been extremely hectic so been trying to just stay up on turns with not much time for anything else, getting covered in some but still missed turns so it's been a bit of MIA all around. I'll try to stay up on this more and if I can't I'll let mod know.

Reading up trying to catch up but mainly glossing through as it seems like a lot of fluff mostly so far from posts especially D3 and now we're down three town. Looking at the last lynch on Swang and kill on LC seems like there might be something there. Why LC? A distraction yes with his over complicated plans but that would be of benefit to scum. So why kill him. Unless he was on to something or probing too close to who scum is. Will have to read look through those better maybe back to D1 and try to remove the garbage that was also there.

Final vote count D2 was:

swang (6) - Vot, charle, fusibaseball, pix, strike wolf, kingm
Charle (1) - PMC
Votanic (2) - swang, LC
Strike (1) - ragian

Strongly think there's some scum in that Swang vote. To me right now leaning based on posts since D2 here's what I see:

Leaning town is Ragian, Vot (mainly because of PR claim but see questions below), King

Leaning scum is Charle, kong, with more slight leans for Pix and Fusi

Strike, PMC, Max (His one liners seem to not give much info but everyone seems to agree this is his play style), I'm not sure what to make of. Think I'll need to go back to D1 maybe to look over that day. Think one of these might be scum but unlikely all three.

Of note for Vot, why did you start the vote on Swang if you had visited him the night before with no visible action taking place? I mean no action doesn't necessarily clear him but seems odd to start it on someone you checked for me. Just want some clarification.

+1 from the ghost audience

[Votanic]

Would be good if mod could track and prod/replace people.

I think this is good timing vot, can you tell us who they visited at least so we may judge the liklihood of various roles visiting?

I don't see any good reason to conceal who player Y is.

Identifying Player Y before Player X might be a good next-step reveal... but at this point I still want players (especially Town) to engage with this as a thought-exercise.
Before anyone jumps down that rabbit hole, let me explicitedly state that it is not a fictional thought-exercise. I am the role I claim and the intel I have is also real...

My Intel is telling me that Player X has roughly equal chance of being an ally or enemy... That's the problem with such intel. It often only falls into place post hoc.
So basically, just another talking point in the post-game reveal. meh...

Overall, if player X is an investigative role (either scum or town) the existence and value of their intel could vary betwen zilch (more likely) and pure gold (less so...).
Of course, if a Town PR did actaully uncover the identity of a Scum player, I certainly hope he would come forward. No point saving that until Christmas...


Last night as many as six players could have been up and about doing night-actions. These include:
1. Myself
2. The Scum night-killer (probably the Mafia Goon) This is NOT my intel, alas.
3. Zero, One or Two other Town PRs (JOAT, Inventor, Motion Detector and/or Role Blocker, ...but not Doctor).Some of these PRs have limited shots, so a player might choose to wait. Motion detector (and Doctor) are not shot-limited. Also the roles of Inventor and Doctor are only beneficial if you know another player is town, ...unless the player can use them on himself. ...but that seems unlikely.
4. Zero, One or Two other Scum PRs (definitely Role Blocker, and also either Watcher or Tracker) The Watcher and Tracker roles are both shot limited, the Role Blocker is not.

Why LC? A distraction yes with his over complicated plans but that would be of benefit to scum. So why kill him. Unless he was on to something or probing too close to who scum is. Will have to read look through those better maybe back to D1 and try to remove the garbage that was also there.

Again as I said before, LC was an odd choice for a night-kill. Twonies who amuse themseves with nrabsurd distractions are Scum's greatest allies, even if unknowingly so.
Of course, LC an I were throwing votes at each other, so maybe this ia an attmpt by Scum, to make me look scummy, but of course that makes little sense.
My wanting LC lynched for his bad play does not link me to his later night kill. Au contraire! Scum would not try to lynch and then night-kill the same townie. [size=85]Yes, I suppose you could spin wine-glasses about that too, but it really is an unlikely manouevre.

Of note for Vot, why did you start the vote on Swang if you had visited him the night before with no visible action taking place? I mean no action doesn't necessarily clear him but seems odd to start it on someone you checked for me. Just want some clarification.

Yes, swang not visiting anyone at night was townish, ...probably the most townish thing he did (ba-dum ching)
I still honestly wanted to explore the possibility that the lynch-switch from swang to DDS was scum-related. In retrosepct, you could call that tunneling...
If I had a strong, evidence-based scum-tell, I would have voted for that instead, ...but I didn't, and I still don't!