[Official] NBC Mafia Town Win MVP=trinicardinal

[trinicardinal]

Well reviewing the trini-chap case. As much as I am suspicious of anyone who's first defense against someone is to claim OMGus and then misuse wifom at the end, I'm not seeing enough to vote Trini from the case brought forward (whether chap wants to acknowledge it or not there is a big difference between casting one of the first few votes on the wagon and putting someone at L-2 to force the claim) and despite early suspicions against him Trini has since been fairly helpful in progressing discussion. It does however have more substance than the reasoning for voting chap at the moment. I still need to finish reviewing day 1 so I will not comment much on the chap case other than to say the case he pushed for against trini does seem to be an earnest attempt. As far as inactives, I am as of right now much more inclined to believe Medefe over Jimfinn as Medefe's posting has been fairly consistent from what I've seen elsewhere. However it appears they both responded fairly quickly to the inactive allegations.

medefe is not too afraid to say what he thinks, there is some substance... I vote for jimfinn and in the next minutes he shows up just as an act of presence, but still not really saying anything.. he's definitely the least helpfull here. looks like he is only waiting for someone to be against the wall to bring his 2 cents and bandwagon against him..

I looked at the 2 of them first since they were the most inactive that I had seen. As I said in my case Its difficult to decide between the two of them but I'm just a little more suspicious of MeDeFe, hence my vote for him. Either way I think those 2 are the most likely leads right now.

[dazza2008]

Vote Jimfinn I find it very suspicious he only comes on when he recieved a vote and when he did he said nothing really. Seems he just wanted to appear active without getting involved.

[Leitz]

Jimfinn finally showed some sign of life, but ignored all of the FOS towards him and then just left. Unless he starts defending his case:

Unvote, vote jimfinn

[trinicardinal]

Jimfinn finally showed some sign of life, but ignored all of the FOS towards him and then just left. Unless he starts defending his case:

Unvote, vote jimfinn

Well i agree that jim and MeDeFe need to provide us some answer. Given jim's no response and the fact that I think it would be better to concentrate on one at a time
Unvote, vote jimfinn. I'll come back to MeDeFe after as the situation dictates.

[safariguy5]

Vote Count

trini(1)- chap
jimfinn(4)- betiko, dazza, Leitz, trini

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

[MoB Deadly]

I have not been around since Day 2 has started, I will try to contribute tomorrow!

[dazza2008]

I have not been around since Day 2 has started, I will try to contribute tomorrow!

No worries bud. Is it not Thanks Giving for you guys? I think we all expected activity to take a dip for a while.

[Epitaph1]

I also find the timing of jim's last post to be odd. Just as people were starting to turn their attention to him, he popped in to tell us about his laptop. That incident will only cover him for D2 activity, but I want to hear a proper response to the accusations against him. I'm sure it will be something along the lines of being new, not sure of what's happening, or something similar.

That said, I'm leaning more towards srutinizing jim over Medefe for the moment.

[jonty125]

Its been over 24 hours since he last showed up and with CC you should be logging in once every 24 so vote jimfinn for constant scumarining

[trinicardinal]

Its been over 24 hours since he last showed up and with CC you should be logging in once every 24 so vote jimfinn for constant scumarining

And the last time he showed up he didn't really post anything of substance. I have no problem if you missed some time due to a legitimate reason - it will lead to some suspicion regardless - but I expect positive contributions to the discussion which jim is not providing (at least chap when he returned made many positive contributions to the discussion), nor has jim answered any of my case against him. His excuse only covers him for Day 2 but still doesn't explain his heavy submarining during Day 1.

[jonty125]

Maybe I need to clarify that I meant "24 hours after he said he would be back."

[strike wolf]

With it being Thanksgiving week I'm willing to give Jim a bit extra time before voting but he definitely is not making a good impression so far. I'd also like to hear from Rodion. He hasn't been inactive but he's been highly active in another game and he did say that he would be looking into something today and I want to hear if he's had any results.

[Rodion]

Alright, I've waited enough. I still need to catch up with the last couple of pages so I won't be commenting on that just yet, but I wanted to bring up some knowledge from another game that will perhaps be useful here.

viewtopic.php?p=3462693#p3462693

unvote vote Rodion. In games with both him and strike, one of them has to be mafia.

As mod of the official game with both of them in it, I fear you have spoken too much and must be destroyed!

unvote vote saf

A summary of what happened: Safari made a jokevote in the Golden Pantheon: Greek game stating that Strike and I have never been both town at the same game. At first, I found it funny and moved on (after all, every game we've played together had one or the other playing as mafia).

Then my mind got blown by Chap's comment. Safari had access to another game and he still stuck with the "one of them has to be mafia" joke! Granted, it could be that he made the joke without considering the game he is modding, but it is still suspicious. Chap's comment also seems like the comment that a disappointed mafia player that just had his game unfairly spoiled would make.

I'll be catching up later on the last 2 pages of this thread and look for an in-game lead, but if I don't see anything I'll default to thinking that:
a) Strike if scum (since I'm not).
b) if Strike dies and flips scum, Chap's behaviour in the Golden Pantheon game is indicative that he is also scum.

The reason I didn't post this immediately when D2 started was that I wanted to see whether Strike or Chap would have brought this up. Theoretically, Strike playing as mafia would not bring this up if it were truth, since he would not want to die (either instantly on D2 lynch or on N2/D3 after I died and flipped town, thus confirming the scum among the 2 of us is him). By waiting, I wanted to see whether he'd raise this issue himself, thus leaning me more to believe that we're both town and Safari's joke should carry no weight whatsoever, or he'd disregard it, leaning me more to believe that his odds of being scum are not to be ignored.

I would like to hear everyone's thoughts on this and, as I said, I'll catch up with the actual D2 posts until the end of the weekend.

Safari, there are only 14 players now, so 8 to lynch, not 16/9 like you've been posting!

[safariguy5]

Don't read into my post on Golden Pantheon too deeply, I knew both of you were in this game. I was referencing the discussion thread on Indisputable truths.

[betiko]

Don't read into my post on Golden Pantheon too deeply, I knew both of you were in this game. I was referencing the discussion thread on Indisputable truths.

a mod trying to justify he s not scum? great!

why didn't you have the same suspicion about rodion strike? seems like it went over your head? it should have brought suspicion on both sides..

[jonty125]

Alright, I've waited enough. I still need to catch up with the last couple of pages so I won't be commenting on that just yet, but I wanted to bring up some knowledge from another game that will perhaps be useful here.

viewtopic.php?p=3462693#p3462693

unvote vote Rodion. In games with both him and strike, one of them has to be mafia.

As mod of the official game with both of them in it, I fear you have spoken too much and must be destroyed!

unvote vote saf

A summary of what happened: Safari made a jokevote in the Golden Pantheon: Greek game stating that Strike and I have never been both town at the same game. At first, I found it funny and moved on (after all, every game we've played together had one or the other playing as mafia).

Then my mind got blown by Chap's comment. Safari had access to another game and he still stuck with the "one of them has to be mafia" joke! Granted, it could be that he made the joke without considering the game he is modding, but it is still suspicious. Chap's comment also seems like the comment that a disappointed mafia player that just had his game unfairly spoiled would make.

I'll be catching up later on the last 2 pages of this thread and look for an in-game lead, but if I don't see anything I'll default to thinking that:
a) Strike if scum (since I'm not).
b) if Strike dies and flips scum, Chap's behaviour in the Golden Pantheon game is indicative that he is also scum.

The reason I didn't post this immediately when D2 started was that I wanted to see whether Strike or Chap would have brought this up. Theoretically, Strike playing as mafia would not bring this up if it were truth, since he would not want to die (either instantly on D2 lynch or on N2/D3 after I died and flipped town, thus confirming the scum among the 2 of us is him). By waiting, I wanted to see whether he'd raise this issue himself, thus leaning me more to believe that we're both town and Safari's joke should carry no weight whatsoever, or he'd disregard it, leaning me more to believe that his odds of being scum are not to be ignored.

I would like to hear everyone's thoughts on this and, as I said, I'll catch up with the actual D2 posts until the end of the weekend.

Safari, there are only 14 players now, so 8 to lynch, not 16/9 like you've been posting!

So your making a case based on that either you or strike is scum vote Rodion

[strike wolf]

It's actually weirder than that not only does he seem to want me to have based a case on something safari said as a joke in another thread (for the record I trust safari not to consciously make that comment in a way that could jeopardize the fairness of his game so the fact he says it means very little to me in regards to how I proceed with this game) but for at least the third time in this game betiko followed his lead in taking action. I did not buy into any rodion or betiko case yesterday but between this abstract comment from rodion and betiko's consistent behavior indicating some kind of alliance.
vote rodion
fos betiko

[safariguy5]

Vote Count

trini(1)- chap
jimfinn(4)- betiko, dazza, Leitz, trini
Rodion(2)- jonty, strike

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

You forgot to unvote jimfinn before voting Rodion jonty, I will count it this time, but consider it a reminder to everyone to remember to unvote before changing your vote.

[jonty125]

Apologies, I didn't remember joining the jimfinn case

[betiko]

It's actually weirder than that not only does he seem to want me to have based a case on something safari said as a joke in another thread (for the record I trust safari not to consciously make that comment in a way that could jeopardize the fairness of his game so the fact he says it means very little to me in regards to how I proceed with this game) but for at least the third time in this game betiko followed his lead in taking action. I did not buy into any rodion or betiko case yesterday but between this abstract comment from rodion and betiko's consistent behavior indicating some kind of alliance.
vote rodion
fos betiko

humm sorry, can you name the "at least third time" i follow rodion's lead?
1. on the very begining of day 1 i said he was the one i would trust a little for trying to ask a question about voting for the guy below us on a list. what lead did i follow there? no case/vote was done there by either of us on anyone.
2. rodion just makes a case about you on day 2. I ask you why you didn't suspect him, as that comment from safari should've make you have both suspicions about each other. I would ve definitely gone through my mind. I asked you a question, is that taking an action?

So what exactly do you call "take at least 3 actions on rodion's leads??" ask you a question about the case he has against you? Do you have a selective memory or are you just trying to be manipulative? because when you count more than 3 I count 0, can you be more specific, or admit you got a little confused?

cause right now I am still holding on the jimfinn case and I m not the only one to find it fishy.

now could I vote against rodion? no problem about it, but I think that taking seriously what safari said in another game is not what I call a big case.

so basically you answer my question. for you safari's statement could not ve been a tell that slipped through his keyboard, it could only be a joke.

[MoB Deadly]

Okay I am really sorry for the delay here guys.... I am going to weigh in here.

I think Chap did make some valid points against Trini. I agree with the points about trini being inconsistent and may be applying "false pressure". Although its hard to determine Trinis motive for that, because scum doesnt care WHO is lynched, they just want any lynch.

I feel like Trini defended well, makes it seem a lot more OMGUS from chap, than a real case.

Neither of them gets my vote right now. And Trini has been actively investigative of players posts, I definitely think he is an important part of the town.


Wow. Rodion and Strike Wolf. I thought for sure Safari messed up, we are all human afterall.... I did find the universal truth he was talking about:

The Truth was posted on September 30th.

43. If rodion and strike wolf are in the same game, rodion is not town. (5 for 5 so far rody. Prove me wrong)

So it looks like a valid jokevote to me.


Inactives, I do find it suspect that both Medefe and JimFinn both come back as soon as their name is brought up. Medefe's post seem to have a lot more value to them over JimFinn.

JimFinn's response definitely set me over the edge. I was away too, but I made a post that I was away and would contribute when I got back. He posts within MINUTES that he is called out. That is HIGHLY suspicious. And STILL disappears after doing it.

vote jim until he at least makes a contributing post

[MoB Deadly]

Okay I am really sorry for the delay here guys.... I am going to weigh in here.

I think Chap did make some valid points against Trini. I agree with the points about trini being inconsistent and may be applying "false pressure". Although its hard to determine Trinis motive for that, because scum doesnt care WHO is lynched, they just want any lynch.

I feel like Trini defended well, makes it seem a lot more OMGUS from chap, than a real case.

Neither of them gets my vote right now. And Trini has been actively investigative of players posts, I definitely think he is an important part of the town.

I should have reworked this before I posted it. I posted my reactions the minute after reading Chap's case before reading Trini's response or following post analysis. I don't have any suspicions of trini at this time.

[jimfinn]

unvote, Vote: Rodion

The random question of whether we should lynch the person below us seems a bit scummy to me. After all, it seems readily apparent that mafia would want a random lynch and town would not, but the obviousness of that also means that mafia would also want to act like they did not want the lynch. This can lead only to WIFOM and eating up valuable time, and feels deliberately nonhelpful of him to do. He's trying to keep us from getting out of the RVS/RQS

So Day 1 and everyone is getting trouble to get even a semblance of a good reason to commit. jim has decided to start on Rodion due to his question seeming a bit scummy to him. That's basically a good summary of what I was doing with this post. In the RVS/RQS (which we were basically in), anything even slightly suspicious is worth pursuing IMO

Clarity post: RVS/RQS = Random Voting Stage/Random Questioning Stage. On other sites I see it all the time; perhaps it's less common here (only my third game on this site).

Also I find it interesting that strike talks about being suspicious of some of those voting for betiko and then proceeds to try to build a case against me when I have deliberately refrained from voting for betiko at this point due specifically to the point that there is no real case against anybody yet. Hell this thing is nothing but paranoia

Then again, I think that your comments about not wanting to put betiko to L-2 indicate your suspicion of betiko, and I would certainly have considered you part of the attack on betiko, even though you technically didn't vote for him.

adding in his 2 cents but apparently not feeling strongly enough to switch votes to me. Also does not seem interested enough to follow up like chap did. I was not personally suspicious of you, hence my not switching my vote to you. I was just acknowleging that I didn't find strike's suspicion of you scummy.

I think that Rodion's guide is helpful, and I don't consider it a disruption. New players might not necessarily check the mafia discussion forum.

Also useful are the following:
http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=FAQ
http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Roles
http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?tit ... reviations

EBWOP: I'm going to unvote as well, Rodion's being more useful now.

fairly simple posting so far although not much of it... almost as if he's trying to be seen but not say anything? I post when something makes me feel suspicious of someone. But at this point, I really wasn't getting much of a read on anyone, so I wasn't able to post too much that was useful.

unvote I believe BG's claim. I have not seen the film but did a search to see what there was. It seems there has to be characters that are less common as there seems not to be too many. I found the one BG claimed and I can't see why he would not be VT.

If a moderator is trying to make a good, balanced game, either the scum will be provided with fakeclaims (characters guaranteed not to appear) or alignment will be independent of character in the original book/game/movie. So I wouldn't personally accept the fact that the character SEEMS POTENTIALLY VT as an exonerating bit of evidence. That said, I also don't have strong enough suspicion of BG to bring him to the edge of a lynch yet, but I just think that his claim neither enhances nor reduces his credibility.

So jim still isn't saying much. All of his posts are very short and he has hardly posted for the game. In addition he hasn't posted anything new since the 15th. He claims this is only his 3rd game here which would put him in a similar position to me but it also implies that he has played mafia otherwise which I haven't so i'm inclined to cut him a little less slack on the noob factor. I tend to be a relatively short poster until I get really excited about a case, and none of them hit me in a very exciting way so far. As for the timing, it was a busy week (college-wise) and I didn't realize quite how long it had been since I had posted. As I said, nothing was giving me a scummy vibe yet. I was trying to get reads but didn't really have much to go on.

Given the posts by MeDeFe and jimfinn its a bit harder to decide between them but on the whole I am a bit more susbicious of MeDeFe so

FOS: jimfinn
Vote: MeDeFe

I am now back at college, and done with my Thanksgiving travel, with a semi-working laptop, so I should be regular again. Now to respond to the case. Responses are in bold edited into the quoted post above.

[jimfinn]

Hey all, sorry, I'm just catching up a little bit - I spilled a drink on my laptop during the Mafia night, and I'm still getting caught up on so far. I've just barely been logging in to take my turns from wherever, but today I was able to get an old laptop up to the point where I can use it til my good one is fixed.

it only took you 10 minutes to answer once I decided to go against you and before that you didn't say a thing in 8 days?
so this prooves that you decide to never get involved and that you come and read here quite often..

Also, in response to this, it was a pure coincidence of timing, I hadn't read much of anything since Day 2 opened until that very moment. (due to the laptop)

[Epitaph1]

I'm not reading anything into Safari's quote in the Golden Pantheon game. You guys have played with him more than I have, but I doubt he would have accidentally gave something away about an official game in another thread. If we are to follow this lead and lynch either Rodion or strike who turns up town, would we immediately presume the other person to be scum? If yes and safari did not slip up, we could be down two capable townies.

Re: jimfinn. Jim mentions that he's not a big poster unless he gets really excited about a case. We scrutinized 3 people on D1 and managed to get 2 of them to claim.* However, I don't remember jim weighing in much on any of the people (I may have to double check this). While I'm willing to cut everyone some slack for the extended weekend, D1 wrapped up a week before Thanksgiving. I'll give Jim another day or so to settle in and review the D2 discussion, but I want to see what cases excite him.



*Of the 3 people we looked at on D1, how was betiko the one who got away without claiming? He has repeatedly raised scummy questions, but just doesn't make it to the top of our polls. I thought his comments about trusting Rodion on D1 were a little weird but I don't think there is anything to his input on the safari comments.