[UNKNOWN] Mafia Day 5 - The Disappearance [Abandoned]

[Rodion]

Wolf, I've never played as a cultie, but I assume the recruiter would aim his actions taking powers in consideration, not names (especially when there is no proof that the given name was real?)?

And I'll suspect anyone that disputes something I see as clear as water (the thought process is simple: "there is only one truth - if I'm right and you disagree with me, then you must be wrong"). Right now, it's as clear as water for me that Bleed's story doesn't add up. I was bold enough to risk my skin into hearing from him and we got a story that doesn't make sense, yet I'm the one getting voted/FOSed. It's growing to be a really frustrating game for me if you want to know (it feels like I'm the man returning to the cave from Plato's allegory - and that is not a roleclaim).

Sorry I have been extremely busy with work that I have not really had much chance to catch up on my reading on this post, I have done a lot of reading up just trying to understand how romeo & juliet and the knights templar play in.. if this is a classic then there good easily be a third party, I did some reading and third party could be Paris the prince of Verona that Juliet was promised to before meeting Romeo.

I am still trying to wrap my head a round why Knights Templars are involved???

\

Bleed Green - I'd like you to tell me the name of your character (no need for alignment, power or winning condition - I just want the name).

So this is all i see on your case against bleed! now I don't know how speculation on the theme of the game warrants a full claim.

Please, do not try to put words in my mouth. When did I ever ask for Bleed to full claim? I never asked for more than his name and I later "nerfed" my question to books.

rodion where are the posts that line up that role of think that would be easy to understand i think

Sigh.

Check everything I've written since my last post on page 28. If you'd like a summary, read the red highlighted part I wrote and you quoted in page 35. It's a summary of the story so far (check if the actions of the guy who's the "triangle" make any sense at all).

[Commander9]

(it feels like I'm the man returning to the cave from Plato's allegory - and that is not a roleclaim).

Love the reference! It's probably a bit not suitable here, though:
A) That man is brutally murdered when he comes back.
B) It's never a good idea to tell that you are enlightened and that you see the light - especially to a blood thirsty medieval peasant crowd

Move along.

[freezie]

Rodion, the reasons you are beeing fos'ed is because of your thirst for everyone's name.

I said time and again that I understand your case against bleed, it comes down to the known LAL. Or Lynch all Liars, for the newbies.

Bleed said he didn't understand the templars in Romeo and Juliet, yet his character is from neither. That's it. No need for huge posts rodion.

But, anyway:

Unvote

Vote: Rodion


Your last few posts have been enough as you try to take down anyone with an oppinion. Everyone here may see something as clear as water while others don't, and that's no reason to say that they are utterly wrong.

I'll say it again: I agree to your case against bleed as per the LAL, but I don't agree with everything else you have said.

[gimli1990]

I was trying to figure out a good case to agree that i could understand and agree with or try to come up with on my own.

i agree with freezie here that Rodian seems to attack everyone with a opinion.

so here is my opinion Rodian has been acting scummy in my opinion. and on top him taking a guess at who my chactor was after i said that is all i am going to say seems a little suspect to me as well.

so i will Vote Rodian

[Rodion]

Freezie, I don't have a "thirst for everyone's name" like you suggested. I had a strong lead on Bleed and wanted his name to prove my case. I got his name and the case was proven (you yourself agree with that). And the Gimli thing, as I said, is not a big deal (in my opinion). Names are just names, unless they can give a really solid clue about one's powers. And I have no clue on which powers Joan of Arc or Dante Alighieri would have, provided they are really in the game.

Regarding the "huge posts", it can now look simple to you and me (if not an exact LAL case, at the very least a pretty darn close scenario), but for whatever reason people are not following. Here's proof:

1 - Yoshi called it "convoluted".

2 -

rodion's case on bled: it was weird, and i don't like Shakespeare- so i don't really follow

- she can't understand the argument because she doesn't like Shakespeare ( ).

3 - Streaker said that the case is loaded with WIFOM.

4 - Target has been asking several questions about it.

So, yes, Freezie, I'm getting A LOT of shit and I still feel I need to "enlighten" some of you. Posts will have the size it takes to get people to comprehend what's going on (unless my exhaustion gets me to give up on this game). And I suspect those who obstruct me, there's nothing I can do about it - I have faith that I am right and the logical consequence is that those who disagree are wrong, period. It's a radical opinion and can ultimately be my downfall, but getting votes and fingers won't make me change it.

Fasposted by Gimli: WOOT, it's a wagon!

[Rodion]

EBWOP: Yoshi called it "very convoluted".

[strike wolf]

Wolf, I've never played as a cultie, but I assume the recruiter would aim his actions taking powers in consideration, not names (especially when there is no proof that the given name was real?)?

It really depends. A good cultist would try to cue in on likely townies possibly regardless of ability. In fact a power role suddenly shifting sides depending on how well they play it off and if flavor of scenes could suggest recruitment could potentially stick out. Also a lot of times, power roles don't matter as becoming a cultist nerfs them anyways.

And I'll suspect anyone that disputes something I see as clear as water (the thought process is simple: "there is only one truth - if I'm right and you disagree with me, then you must be wrong"). Right now, it's as clear as water for me that Bleed's story doesn't add up. I was bold enough to risk my skin into hearing from him and we got a story that doesn't make sense, yet I'm the one getting voted/FOSed. It's growing to be a really frustrating game for me if you want to know (it feels like I'm the man returning to the cave from Plato's allegory - and that is not a roleclaim).

Even the clearest water can mask the real truth. You'll find out in the long run that this train of thought does not fly far in mafia. We are not even challenging you on the bleed case that much you brought up some good points and if I disagreed with you on it, well I have never been one to shy away from confronting you directly about it. I had one point that I was not quite sure added up and I asked you about it and you gave a satisfactory answer. Other than that I do not feel your case has any inconsistencies I just don't feel it is as rock solid as you seem to feel and I have concerns about the character of the person who started it. Either way, when you are getting fosed/voted it is often best to self-reflect on why you may be getting voted. In this case it is how non-chalant you have acted towards people giving up information about their roles and how quick you are to accuse anyone who has directly disagreed with you. You also can't say that it is just this instance either. You FOSED "the clowns" standing in the way of your investigation earlier. But please don't get frustrated. Every time you are lynched or brought under scrutiny you should think of it as a learning experience.

And yes name claims can reveal a lot about the possible dangers of a person. Like for instance we have speculated that Dracula may be the one responsible for the failed Night 1 kill...let's say someone (maybe Target) name claimed Van Helsing. Guess who jumps to the top of the mafia must kill pile? we don't know what the powers of these mafia are or who they are. Therefore we do not know how effective our protections against these mafias may be or who may be their main enemies. Even if you say it was no "big deal" to get a name claim, there was still no reason for you to take a stab at guessing gimli's. He was under no suspicion and you had no case to make about him. It has only damaged your reputation and I am not convinced you shouldn't be lynched on principle.

[Commander9]

Vote Count

safariguy5 (3) - Target, Yoshi, ndrs
freezie
pancakemix (1) - Edoc
Streaker
ndrs
Edocsil
vioiet (1) - strike
targetman377
TheSaxlad
naxus
Iliad
DoomYoshi
gimli
Rodion (3) - Streaker, freezie, gimli
blakebowling
jeraado
sheepofdumb
ShaggyDan
nagerous
Strike Wolf
Fircoal
Bleed_Green (2) - Rodion, naxus
Namliam

With 23 alive, it takes 12 to lynch.

[targetman377]

Ok i Am starting to think that Rodion might HAVE to say what he is saying and play aggressively! After all in commanders last came there where charictors like tom cruise. Could this be the same thing Here. Not know how many games Rodein has been in and still new to the game It just seems like some one with that much experience could attract that much attention without it being forced on to him.

As commander pointed out the "peasants" are mindless!! maybe he has to convince people and forced to investigate things during the day!

[safariguy5]

Ok i Am starting to think that Rodion might HAVE to say what he is saying and play aggressively! After all in commanders last came there where charictors like tom cruise. Could this be the same thing Here. Not know how many games Rodein has been in and still new to the game It just seems like some one with that much experience could attract that much attention without it being forced on to him.

As commander pointed out the "peasants" are mindless!! maybe he has to convince people and forced to investigate things during the day!

Let's put it this way: Although Rodion hasn't played very many games, he has the intelligence and ability on par with many of the veterans.

As for "investigating during the days", that's what everyone is supposed to do. Lynches are the town's greatest weapon against mafia. Believe me, vigs often end up doing more harm than good when they try to NK mafia. And cops revealing too early in these games often end up dead and of no further help to town.

[targetman377]

Ok i Am starting to think that Rodion might HAVE to say what he is saying and play aggressively! After all in commanders last came there where charictors like tom cruise. Could this be the same thing Here. Not know how many games Rodein has been in and still new to the game It just seems like some one with that much experience could attract that much attention without it being forced on to him.

As commander pointed out the "peasants" are mindless!! maybe he has to convince people and forced to investigate things during the day!

Let's put it this way: Although Rodion hasn't played very many games, he has the intelligence and ability on par with many of the veterans.

As for "investigating during the days", that's what everyone is supposed to do. Lynches are the town's greatest weapon against mafia. Believe me, vigs often end up doing more harm than good when they try to NK mafia. And cops revealing too early in these games often end up dead and of no further help to town.

Ok yeah i know but what if he is forced to ask for someone claim everyday? maybe he is some I don't know much how a PR works (i think that is what is is called but May just maybe he is has to do what he does. As you said he is Intelligent Even me at this stage would not be so bold and aggressive without being forced by my role.

But this is pure speculation. As i am new to mafia and well i am having a fun time taking all this in!!! does that make sense? does anyone else think it could be his role making him do this or am i just way off on this?

[strike wolf]

I would say it is very unlikely his behavior is due to a pr.

[safariguy5]

I would say it is very unlikely his behavior is due to a pr.

I agree, PR's are more obvious and this particular PR could seriously affect the game as well as how well he is able to play his character. PR's are supposed to be fun, not debilitating.

[targetman377]

oh ok. just wondering cause i mean with over 20 people in this game and since commander did it before i thought there could be someone who might have a PR

[freezie]

There may very well be a PR right now. Nam may have been forced to not post today. XD

[Rodion]

Also a lot of times, power roles don't matter as becoming a cultist nerfs them anyways.

It still matters. Not because the cult can acquire a new power, but because they can permanently disable a power from their enemies (the town).

Even the clearest water can mask the real truth. You'll find out in the long run that this train of thought does not fly far in mafia. We are not even challenging you on the bleed case that much you brought up some good points and if I disagreed with you on it, well I have never been one to shy away from confronting you directly about it. I had one point that I was not quite sure added up and I asked you about it and you gave a satisfactory answer. Other than that I do not feel your case has any inconsistencies I just don't feel it is as rock solid as you seem to feel and I have concerns about the character of the person who started it. Either way, when you are getting fosed/voted it is often best to self-reflect on why you may be getting voted. In this case it is how non-chalant you have acted towards people giving up information about their roles and how quick you are to accuse anyone who has directly disagreed with you. You also can't say that it is just this instance either. You FOSED "the clowns" standing in the way of your investigation earlier. But please don't get frustrated. Every time you are lynched or brought under scrutiny you should think of it as a learning experience.

And yes name claims can reveal a lot about the possible dangers of a person. Like for instance we have speculated that Dracula may be the one responsible for the failed Night 1 kill...let's say someone (maybe Target) name claimed Van Helsing. Guess who jumps to the top of the mafia must kill pile? we don't know what the powers of these mafia are or who they are. Therefore we do not know how effective our protections against these mafias may be or who may be their main enemies. Even if you say it was no "big deal" to get a name claim, there was still no reason for you to take a stab at guessing gimli's. He was under no suspicion and you had no case to make about him. It has only damaged your reputation and I am not convinced you shouldn't be lynched on principle.

Mind explaining the concerns of regarding the character of the person who started Bleed's case (myself)? Would you have allowed someone else to have done exactly what I did because you have nothing against this person's character?

About the clowns part, I was so sure I'd get to prove my case that I'd make everyone who formerly doubted/obstructed me to realize they were clowns indeed (except for those that had a hidden agenda in doubting/obstructing me, obviously) and apologize to me (or at least don't mind the "offense"). I must confess I'm surprised that the prophecy didn't fully materialize yet.

Ok i Am starting to think that Rodion might HAVE to say what he is saying and play aggressively! After all in commanders last came there where charictors like tom cruise. Could this be the same thing Here. Not know how many games Rodein has been in and still new to the game It just seems like some one with that much experience could attract that much attention without it being forced on to him.

As commander pointed out the "peasants" are mindless!! maybe he has to convince people and forced to investigate things during the day!

Commander didn't come here with the intent of hinting everyone at something. He merely stated he liked a reference and how catastrophic it could reveal itself.

And, Target, I politely request you to let me handle my own defense alone. Feel free to make a case on whoever you think is scummy (including me if that's the best conclusion you can come up with), but please do not come here attempting to defend me.

Fasposted by a horde.

[targetman377]

I was not trying to defend you I am just trying to get better at the game. And Rodin i will! Sorry. Also that post was more of a what do you think about this?

[Commander9]

Commander didn't come here with the intent of hinting everyone at something. He merely stated he liked a reference and how catastrophic it could reveal itself.

This. You may find a lot of clues in the scenes, but this has nothing to with it - I was just making a comment. His alignment (whether he's town, mafia, cult, vampire, spaceman or digimon) doesn't matter and I'd have posted the same comment regardless of it.

[strike wolf]

Also a lot of times, power roles don't matter as becoming a cultist nerfs them anyways.

It still matters. Not because the cult can acquire a new power, but because they can permanently disable a power from their enemies (the town).

very true for the power roles that are hazardous to cult

Even the clearest water can mask the real truth. You'll find out in the long run that this train of thought does not fly far in mafia. We are not even challenging you on the bleed case that much you brought up some good points and if I disagreed with you on it, well I have never been one to shy away from confronting you directly about it. I had one point that I was not quite sure added up and I asked you about it and you gave a satisfactory answer. Other than that I do not feel your case has any inconsistencies I just don't feel it is as rock solid as you seem to feel and I have concerns about the character of the person who started it. Either way, when you are getting fosed/voted it is often best to self-reflect on why you may be getting voted. In this case it is how non-chalant you have acted towards people giving up information about their roles and how quick you are to accuse anyone who has directly disagreed with you. You also can't say that it is just this instance either. You FOSED "the clowns" standing in the way of your investigation earlier. But please don't get frustrated. Every time you are lynched or brought under scrutiny you should think of it as a learning experience.

And yes name claims can reveal a lot about the possible dangers of a person. Like for instance we have speculated that Dracula may be the one responsible for the failed Night 1 kill...let's say someone (maybe Target) name claimed Van Helsing. Guess who jumps to the top of the mafia must kill pile? we don't know what the powers of these mafia are or who they are. Therefore we do not know how effective our protections against these mafias may be or who may be their main enemies. Even if you say it was no "big deal" to get a name claim, there was still no reason for you to take a stab at guessing gimli's. He was under no suspicion and you had no case to make about him. It has only damaged your reputation and I am not convinced you shouldn't be lynched on principle.

Mind explaining the concerns of regarding the character of the person who started Bleed's case (myself)? Would you have allowed someone else to have done exactly what I did because you have nothing against this person's character?

no. Not if they proceeded in the fashion you did. My problem is how you have regarded name claims the entire day. You have dismissed them as all but irrelevant which has irked me. There were a couple of other things but for the most part you have given satisfactory answers to them.

About the clowns part, I was so sure I'd get to prove my case that I'd make everyone who formerly doubted/obstructed me to realize they were clowns indeed (except for those that had a hidden agenda in doubting/obstructing me, obviously) and apologize to me (or at least don't mind the "offense"). I must confess I'm surprised that the prophecy didn't fully materialize yet.

part of the problem you are having is that lal which you are going after is not always applicable and while I do kind of like your case on bleed streaker is right in saying that a lot of it was based on wifom.

Ok i Am starting to think that Rodion might HAVE to say what he is saying and play aggressively! After all in commanders last came there where charictors like tom cruise. Could this be the same thing Here. Not know how many games Rodein has been in and still new to the game It just seems like some one with that much experience could attract that much attention without it being forced on to him.

As commander pointed out the "peasants" are mindless!! maybe he has to convince people and forced to investigate things during the day!

Commander didn't come here with the intent of hinting everyone at something. He merely stated he liked a reference and how catastrophic it could reveal itself.[/quote] qft on this.

[targetman377]

I meant his last game i would not think what commader would say would be a hint in any possiable way i was just stating about his last game he mod. But seeing has how most people think i am wrong that is the last i will post of it!

[freezie]

[. His alignment (digimon)

Dammit I am unmasked.

[Rodion]

I was not trying to defend you I am just trying to get better at the game. And Rodin i will! Sorry. Also that post was more of a what do you think about this?

Just don't worry about me, that's all. I got this.

Since you want to improve, I'll give you one hint (I'm not old enough here to give several).

http://mikeburnfire.deviantart.com/art/ ... s-72597749 - before I started my first game (1-2 months ago), I tried to read several roles so I could understand possible explanations for things. There's usually a power that can explain something you don't quite grasp and getting a comprehensive knowledge of the powers "out there" is good regardless of your alignment.

[targetman377]

thank you Rodion that is a great site and helps me alot!!!!

[edocsil]

Gah, am here. Meant to post, no time. rodion is fishy, not ready to lynch him yet for it. May be good for later in the day if nothing else pops up. Should be able to post after work.

[strike wolf]

Well the issue here is that pressing for gimli's name and his omgus accusations on those who have questioned him in this game are very serious and while he has defended himself vigourously, the reasons he have given as his defense do not excuse these accusations.

1. Name claims are not a big deal because the theme is broad and we do not know if they are telling the truth.

Name claims are always a big deal. A lot of name claims can give mafia and cult a sense of who the power roles might be in this game. Any unnecessarily spilt information that we can avoid is essential especially in scenarios where there may be a cult.

2. Mafia and third party factions already know who is "good" by the fact they are not in their group.

This is completely flawed logic. Mafia would know who is in their own group but they do not know any possible other groups that are out there. So they can not assume that the roles they reveal are town but that makes it more important for them not to kill or recruit indiscriminantly and thus names and the likelihood the name is real are important.

3. Cult would want to recruit based on role not just name alone

Yes true but as I have said names can potentially reveal ability and the name itself and th[e likelihood it is real/town is more important than the ability itself.

Another point: there is a good chance that mafia or cult have a better idea of theme then we do because

A. They are composed of a mix of villains from sources that may or may not have already been revealed.

Or B. They are composed of a group of villains from a source we are not currently aware of.

So they can potentially have a better idea of what roles are real or fake than we do.

3. You fosed because your case is right and "clear as water" so we must be defending bleed.

This is flawed as well. For the most part the people on your case right now have not been questioning your case on bleed. Some have even said it was a good case. I agree that it has a lot of promise. However the problem we are seeing is not in your case on bleed it was the way you handled gimli giving out information. You made no effort to caution him about role claiming when he asked about what he could reveal. If it had been just that it wouldn't have been a big deal but after he gave a hint to it you took a stab at his name. That is why people are accusing you.

So seeing as I apparently did not switch my vote earlier according to the vote count.

unvote vote rodion