[UNKNOWN] Mafia Day 5 - The Disappearance [Abandoned]

[freezie]

Joan of Arc?

You, sir, are growing in rank on my scum list.

We have NO reasons for gim to claim. Just shut it up instead of pressing infos of random people.

Gim, unless you are pressured with the threat of a lynch, or unless you have solid info that will help the town, you should not reveal info about your character. It gives the evil guys a better view on who to kill to harm us more.

Your info, however, revealed something that everyone should take in consideration now: The game's theme is broad enough that questioning and trying to find it out will hurt us more than help at this point of the game. Later, we'll see. For now, it helps more the mafia to make fake claims than help us.

I want to see bleed getting some more pressure simply because of his weird acting that Rodion found out. Right now we're wasting time trying to find something we don't need to figure out yet.

[Rodion]

And this is the very reason I am not more encouraged by the bleed wagon. Why are you pressing information out of him for no reason rodion? You know enough to know that allowing information to be spilt from random town individuals can be very bad.

Come on, that was barely pressing information out of Gimli! He mentioned he didn't know what he could say about himself and I made a pretty neutral comment on what is allowed and not. Then he freely hinted us at his character and I made a guess. Realize that no powers were revealead, so mafia can't know how to lynch the cop or the doctor, if that's what worries you.

And the Bleed wagon (as in Freezie and Naxus following my votes + Safari volunteering the hammer) has nothing to do with pressing information out of Bleed. It has to do with voting on someone for behaving in a pretty undeniable weird way (feel free to read again the whole case I presented or the didactic summary - in the form of a parable - highlighted in red at the bottom of page 30).

Besides, Strike, you've gotten plenty of chances to talk about my case, yet you've never directly tackled it. You're trying to discredit me instead by assuming things I never said and twisting my actions whenever possible.

FOS Strike Wolf.

Joan of Arc?

You, sir, are growing in rank on my scum list.

We have NO reasons for gim to claim. Just shut it up instead of pressing infos of random people.

Gim, unless you are pressured with the threat of a lynch, or unless you have solid info that will help the town, you should not reveal info about your character. It gives the evil guys a better view on who to kill to harm us more.

Your info, however, revealed something that everyone should take in consideration now: The game's theme is broad enough that questioning and trying to find it out will hurt us more than help at this point of the game. Later, we'll see. For now, it helps more the mafia to make fake claims than help us.

I want to see bleed getting some more pressure simply because of his weird acting that Rodion found out. Right now we're wasting time trying to find something we don't need to figure out yet.

That was hardly a pressure! He gave me a hint and I took a guess!

Besides, both (blue highlighted) conclusions were already made by me.

When I've connected "Romeo and Juliet" with "Knights Templar" with my own character, I quickly realized the theme is broad, so broad that I'd be willing to believe this 25-player game featured figures like Cristopher Columbus, Leonardo Da Vinci, Inquisitors, Dracula, Frankenstein and several other book characters.

That said, I'm not sure trying to piece the puzzles together now is really important. Doing so would only:
a) raise the bar as far as making a believable fakeclaiming
BUT
b) it would also let scum know how to make their fakeclaim more believable (provided they were not given one by the mod)

[Bleed_Green]

Joan of Arc?

You, sir, are growing in rank on my scum list.

We have NO reasons for gim to claim. Just shut it up instead of pressing infos of random people.

Gim, unless you are pressured with the threat of a lynch, or unless you have solid info that will help the town, you should not reveal info about your character. It gives the evil guys a better view on who to kill to harm us more.

Your info, however, revealed something that everyone should take in consideration now: The game's theme is broad enough that questioning and trying to find it out will hurt us more than help at this point of the game. Later, we'll see. For now, it helps more the mafia to make fake claims than help us.

I want to see bleed getting some more pressure simply because of his weird acting that Rodion found out. Right now we're wasting time trying to find something we don't need to figure out yet.

I have not been acting weird, I succumb to the fact that I was narrow minded at the beginning about the theme and the scope of the game. But since then I have been completely forthcoming. Personally I would like think the theme or very least the scope can bring light to what we are determining to be scum. So far there are 2 scum figures in the night scene, a shadow and the man who killed Henry.

As Rodion stated that he believes the theme and scope may not be that important at this time, but with this large of a game with less then half posting right now really no evidence is coming to light.

If you still want to pressure me some more what else would you like to, I have given my character my characters name and what period he came from.

[freezie]

So, because you already said those things, I am not allowed to do it? Dude, people kept talking about the game theme, re-saying it before everyone starts name-claiming isn't out of order, honestly.

And it was hardly pressured, however he is new and already claimed part of his role info. Taking a guess could lead to more info beeing claimed and then you would have hurt the town.

[safariguy5]

Joan of Arc?

You, sir, are growing in rank on my scum list.

We have NO reasons for gim to claim. Just shut it up instead of pressing infos of random people.

Gim, unless you are pressured with the threat of a lynch, or unless you have solid info that will help the town, you should not reveal info about your character. It gives the evil guys a better view on who to kill to harm us more.

Your info, however, revealed something that everyone should take in consideration now: The game's theme is broad enough that questioning and trying to find it out will hurt us more than help at this point of the game. Later, we'll see. For now, it helps more the mafia to make fake claims than help us.

I want to see bleed getting some more pressure simply because of his weird acting that Rodion found out. Right now we're wasting time trying to find something we don't need to figure out yet.

I have not been acting weird, I succumb to the fact that I was narrow minded at the beginning about the theme and the scope of the game. But since then I have been completely forthcoming. Personally I would like think the theme or very least the scope can bring light to what we are determining to be scum. So far there are 2 scum figures in the night scene, a shadow and the man who killed Henry.

As Rodion stated that he believes the theme and scope may not be that important at this time, but with this large of a game with less then half posting right now really no evidence is coming to light.

If you still want to pressure me some more what else would you like to, I have given my character my characters name and what period he came from.

There's no real evidence to indicate two mafia kills. Unless there are two small mafias, it's just as possible that the man with the crossbow was a vig or possibly an SKer.

[safariguy5]

Joan of Arc?

You, sir, are growing in rank on my scum list.

We have NO reasons for gim to claim. Just shut it up instead of pressing infos of random people.

Gim, unless you are pressured with the threat of a lynch, or unless you have solid info that will help the town, you should not reveal info about your character. It gives the evil guys a better view on who to kill to harm us more.

Your info, however, revealed something that everyone should take in consideration now: The game's theme is broad enough that questioning and trying to find it out will hurt us more than help at this point of the game. Later, we'll see. For now, it helps more the mafia to make fake claims than help us.

I want to see bleed getting some more pressure simply because of his weird acting that Rodion found out. Right now we're wasting time trying to find something we don't need to figure out yet.

I tried to warn that making bleed give up information without pressure was a slippery slope, and this is simply proving that warning. As of right now Rodion, with Bleed at the very least nameclaiming, I see no real case on him besides flavor speculation. Sure, additional pressure may cause him to reveal the role, I will give you that, but to continue to speculate on individual roles is much more detrimental to town than speculating on the game theme. Of course the question could be begged, if Bleed wasn't from a Shakespeare game, why the speculation about just Shakespeare characters, but I don't think it's a lynchable offense in and of itself.

[targetman377]

to be honest I don't get the case on bleed. But saying that I don't know who is telling the truth. Is it mafia trying to pick there next target? or is it town trying to help us. So i have no clue who to believe but i have to lean more with bleed cause he is being more open!

yes rodion is trying to get info but would it not be better to make sure its not town If
And i see violet could be a problem with the information that we are getting from violet.

But to put it simple i am confused gonna have a lot of time to re read the thread to get a better grip on things tomarow!

[strike wolf]

The point is rodion, it was a very clear scenario where he could have ended up claiming all his role information and you did nothing to discourage it and after he hinted you took a stab at his role name. No you didn't out right press him into revealing information but your lack of action to stop it is what sticks out and you can not argue that you did not out right call for bleed to give his name.

As far as me not directly tackling your case well

A. I have had my own case I am pursuing.
B. I havd not had anything to really add to your case nor am I willing to throw my vote onto it at this point. Rule of thumb if I don't have anything to add to a case and I am not going to vote for it I don't spend much time discussing it.
C. I have my hesitancies about your character and they have grown through this latest incident.

[Streaker]

I'm looking in two directions here. One way is the lane of inactivity, and I'd like to pressure the inactives some more. I think that lane is better suited for some prods by commander. I'm sure he'll take care of that once his schedule clears a little.

The other one is going after Rodion. Especially the last part where he 'gently' leads gimli into nameclaiming. It's not very suspicious by itself, but it would have been just as easy to tell him when it is appropriat to share this information.

To be honest, it feels like a sub-radar kinda move to get some information, without really asking for it.
Unvote, vote Rodion.

His case on Bleed is loaded with WIFOM, and it is a big leap of faith to persue it.

[Commander9]

Jeraado and Sheep both were prodded. Everyone else seems to be on satisfactory activity. Well, Nag has not been inactive, but he has a good reason to do that and since I was cut some slack when I was having my finals by mafia hosts, I am doing the same.

[ShaggyDan]

I apologise for being silent but I haven't had a lot to say, and I don't want to waste people's time with fluff.

I've said my thoughts on Nam, which is largely that it will sort itself out by D3, and if it doesn't we act then.

My thoughts on flavour spec; it's largely a waste of time at this point, with a theme obviously so broad (Shakespeare by itself would have 100's of potential characters) it's easy enough for scum to fakeclaim. The only spec'ing I would like to partake in would be about the knights of templar (which at this point I feel is some kind of Mason'd third party, with a possible alternate win-con, based off gut mostly, they could very well be malicious to town).

My thoughts on Rodion; a very complex case, that ultimately failed to make an impact. Although I'm sure the case took a long time to put together; even before the claim I wasn't that convinced to chase up bleed_green as it was ultimately again based off someone flavour spec'ing, which in a game this large and broad isn't a very firm foundation.

Aside from those very broad events, I haven't had a chance to do a fine read through. Nothing major popped out at me at first read. Other than the obvious about Rodion's Joan of Ark comment which he dismissed as being insignificant, when in reality it did look scummy. Despite that looking scummy I don't know if someone who was part of the mafia would spend so much time building a case and propelling themself to the fore-front in a way they knew would make them look scummy (by asking for a character name). It would be a very stupid move for scum to do.

A possibility I guess is maybe a role that relies on finding a certain character? And he is jumping on chances to out people? *Shrugs* Though occhams razor is telling me someone anti-town wouldn't act so stupidly suspiscious in building a case they wouldn't have to.

[Streaker]

Jeraado and Sheep both were prodded. Everyone else seems to be on satisfactory activity. Well, Nag has not been inactive, but he has a good reason to do that and since I was cut some slack when I was having my finals by mafia hosts, I am doing the same.

What about Iliad? I think he has less then 5 posts on the entire game... He is usually more active I think.

[strike wolf]

Iliad last posted Saturday. I would want to hear from sax who hasn't posted since last Thursday. I think other than the ones mentioned the rest are mostly active...I would have to look back though.

[Commander9]

What about Iliad? I think he has less then 5 posts on the entire game... He is usually more active I think.

As strike said, he has posted recently enough. I am keeping my eye, but not enough to earn a prod. I've considered prodding Saxy, but have decided not to.... For now.

[TheSaxlad]

Im still here. Dont you love exams?

Ill read up / post / blady blady blah.

Pika Pika.

[gimli1990]

i am starting to get the feeling that i revealed to much

but this quote below is why i did. i thought it would help the town more if i revealed some information on my charactor.

however it is best not to unless you know it will help the town.

but from what i have read it helped the mafia more.

[Rodion]

i am starting to get the feeling that i revealed to much

but this quote below is why i did. i thought it would help the town more if i revealed some information on my charactor.

however it is best not to unless you know it will help the town.

but from what i have read it helped the mafia more.

Not really, man, don't worry. People are overreacting to put me in a bad light and get some suspicion away from Bleed.

You said "french character from the beggining of the 1400s". I don't see how that weakens the town at all. Why?
a) we don't know if you're telling the truth
b) assuming you're telling the truth, we don't know if your character is, to put it simply (since this is your first game), "good" or "evil"
c) if you're "evil" (mafia or 3rd-party) the town didn't get weak at all, as nothing from their own side was revealed
d) if you're "good" (town or some harmless types of 3rd-party), the evil guys know that already, in part (mafia knows you are not mafia, multiplayer 3rd-parties know you're not part of their 3rd-party)

The way I see it, that is all harmless. I'll know tell you how what you did could harm the town.

a) there's some lyncher out there (or some other role) trying to get a french character from the early 1400s killed (or recruited for whatever winning condition they have). You did make it easier on them by saying you're french from early 1400s.

That's it. The Joan of Arc question (know I'm talking to everyone) I made is really irrelevant from a searching perspective. Why? Well, in a game with so many themes and centuries, if I had to kill/recruit/lynch a character named Joan of Arc, for instance, knowing Gimli was a french character from the early 1400s would've been enough. I would not have risked myself by openly asking it (that's WIFOM, I know - you can trust me if you want to).

Other than that slim possibility, the one way you could have hurt the town was if you mentioned your power, which you didn't. So, as I said in the beginning of this post, man, it's cool, don't worry about what you've done as people are just trying to make a tempest in a teapot.

But, yes, do not reveal your powers.

[safariguy5]

i am starting to get the feeling that i revealed to much

but this quote below is why i did. i thought it would help the town more if i revealed some information on my charactor.

however it is best not to unless you know it will help the town.

but from what i have read it helped the mafia more.

Not really, man, don't worry. People are overreacting to put me in a bad light and get some suspicion away from Bleed.

You said "french character from the beggining of the 1400s". I don't see how that weakens the town at all. Why?
a) we don't know if you're telling the truth
b) assuming you're telling the truth, we don't know if your character is, to put it simply (since this is your first game), "good" or "evil"
c) if you're "evil" (mafia or 3rd-party) the town didn't get weak at all, as nothing from their own side was revealed
d) if you're "good" (town or some harmless types of 3rd-party), the evil guys know that already, in part (mafia knows you are not mafia, multiplayer 3rd-parties know you're not part of their 3rd-party)

The way I see it, that is all harmless. I'll know tell you how what you did could harm the town.

a) there's some lyncher out there (or some other role) trying to get a french character from the early 1400s killed (or recruited for whatever winning condition they have). You did make it easier on them by saying you're french from early 1400s.

That's it. The Joan of Arc question (know I'm talking to everyone) I made is really irrelevant from a searching perspective. Why? Well, in a game with so many themes and centuries, if I had to kill/recruit/lynch a character named Joan of Arc, for instance, knowing Gimli was a french character from the early 1400s would've been enough. I would not have risked myself by openly asking it (that's WIFOM, I know - you can trust me if you want to).

Other than that slim possibility, the one way you could have hurt the town was if you mentioned your power, which you didn't. So, as I said in the beginning of this post, man, it's cool, don't worry about what you've done as people are just trying to make a tempest in a teapot.

But, yes, do not reveal your powers.

Again, where is the suspicion on bleed. Half your case revolved around him nameclaiming, and now that he did so, I don't see how the case you have on him can continue. Flavor spec is all well and good, but I don't believe that basing an entire case on just flavor spec is valid. It looks a bit like tunnel vision to me.

[Rodion]

Safari, you want to talk about Bleed?

How could Dante Alighieri see Templars and shadows and still only speculate about Romeo and Juliet characters? And not understand the Templar's involvement?

Quoting just for you.

Think of it this way (simplified version for didactic purposes):

1 - Your character is "triangle".
2 - You see someone claiming "grape" and saying he was lovers with someone everyone considers to be "apple" (from the famous "Grape and Apple" book by this famous writer called "Farmer").
3 - Then you see N1 scene mentioning "shield" defending "sword", "shield" dying and his brother "spear" mourning his death.
4 - There's also this "dolphin" guy lurking in the shadows and surviving only due to his inhuman powers.
5 - Then you start to speculate on 3rd-parties, being only able to name fruits ("watermellon") and have the hardest time ever understanding why there would be "weapon" characters in what is obviously a "fruit game".
6 - Someone asks: "buddy, what's your name?"
7 - Everyone dislikes the question and forces him to ultimately rephrase it.
8 - That guy rephrases his question to "can you at least tell me if you are a fruit?"
9 - You answer: "I'm a geometric shape."


Does that even make sense?!

[safariguy5]

Safari, you want to talk about Bleed?

How could Dante Alighieri see Templars and shadows and still only speculate about Romeo and Juliet characters? And not understand the Templar's involvement?

Quoting just for you.

Think of it this way (simplified version for didactic purposes):

1 - Your character is "triangle".
2 - You see someone claiming "grape" and saying he was lovers with someone everyone considers to be "apple" (from the famous "Grape and Apple" book by this famous writer called "Farmer").
3 - Then you see N1 scene mentioning "shield" defending "sword", "shield" dying and his brother "spear" mourning his death.
4 - There's also this "dolphin" guy lurking in the shadows and surviving only due to his inhuman powers.
5 - Then you start to speculate on 3rd-parties, being only able to name fruits ("watermellon") and have the hardest time ever understanding why there would be "weapon" characters in what is obviously a "fruit game".
6 - Someone asks: "buddy, what's your name?"
7 - Everyone dislikes the question and forces him to ultimately rephrase it.
8 - That guy rephrases his question to "can you at least tell me if you are a fruit?"
9 - You answer: "I'm a geometric shape."


Does that even make sense?!

No, I'm saying I understand that argument. What I'm saying is that not understanding the theme (especially since the theme was hidden from us) in and of itself is not enough for me to vote him. I'm saying I'll need more evidence to throw my vote on Bleed. Flavor spec+ say bandwagonning or something is enough for me to vote someone, but pure flavor spec isn't to me.

[targetman377]

Safari, you want to talk about Bleed?

How could Dante Alighieri see Templars and shadows and still only speculate about Romeo and Juliet characters? And not understand the Templar's involvement?

Quoting just for you.

Think of it this way (simplified version for didactic purposes):

1 - Your character is "triangle".
2 - You see someone claiming "grape" and saying he was lovers with someone everyone considers to be "apple" (from the famous "Grape and Apple" book by this famous writer called "Farmer").
3 - Then you see N1 scene mentioning "shield" defending "sword", "shield" dying and his brother "spear" mourning his death.
4 - There's also this "dolphin" guy lurking in the shadows and surviving only due to his inhuman powers.
5 - Then you start to speculate on 3rd-parties, being only able to name fruits ("watermellon") and have the hardest time ever understanding why there would be "weapon" characters in what is obviously a "fruit game".
6 - Someone asks: "buddy, what's your name?"
7 - Everyone dislikes the question and forces him to ultimately rephrase it.
8 - That guy rephrases his question to "can you at least tell me if you are a fruit?"
9 - You answer: "I'm a geometric shape."


Does that even make sense?!

I really don't get your case at all you seem to be making! its seems just like 5 assumptions on top of each other!

[Rodion]

Target, the red part is supposed not to make sense.

By the red part not making sense, we conclude Bleed's posts on the beginning of day 2 did not make sense (because the red part is a summary of Bleed's actions).

The fact that his actions didn't make sense at all made me conclude he had some hidden agenda and tried to deceive the town with poor speculations which he either knew to be weak or should have known (considering his own character).

Did I make it clearer for you now, Target?

[strike wolf]

i am starting to get the feeling that i revealed to much

but this quote below is why i did. i thought it would help the town more if i revealed some information on my charactor.

however it is best not to unless you know it will help the town.

but from what i have read it helped the mafia more.

Not really, man, don't worry. People are overreacting to put me in a bad light and get some suspicion away from Bleed.

I am starting to see a pattern where everyone who disagrees with you is painted as scum. I don't see anyone overreacting to your comment, what I see is YOU attempting to understate just how serious your comment was and blame everyone who has accused you of that fact.

You said "french character from the beggining of the 1400s". I don't see how that weakens the town at all. Why?
a) we don't know if you're telling the truth
b) assuming you're telling the truth, we don't know if your character is, to put it simply (since this is your first game), "good" or "evil"
c) if you're "evil" (mafia or 3rd-party) the town didn't get weak at all, as nothing from their own side was revealed
d) if you're "good" (town or some harmless types of 3rd-party), the evil guys know that already, in part (mafia knows you are not mafia, multiplayer 3rd-parties know you're not part of their 3rd-party)

The way I see it, that is all harmless. I'll know tell you how what you did could harm the town.

a) there's some lyncher out there (or some other role) trying to get a french character from the early 1400s killed (or recruited for whatever winning condition they have). You did make it easier on them by saying you're french from early 1400s.

That's it. The Joan of Arc question (know I'm talking to everyone) I made is really irrelevant from a searching perspective. Why? Well, in a game with so many themes and centuries, if I had to kill/recruit/lynch a character named Joan of Arc, for instance, knowing Gimli was a french character from the early 1400s would've been enough. I would not have risked myself by openly asking it (that's WIFOM, I know - you can trust me if you want to).

whole scenario does not account for a cult recruiter who would want to know who he could be recruiting potentially.

Other than that slim possibility, the one way you could have hurt the town was if you mentioned your power, which you didn't. So, as I said in the beginning of this post, man, it's cool, don't worry about what you've done as people are just trying to make a tempest in a teapot.

But, yes, do not reveal your powers.

At least we can agree that he shouldn't reveal his powers..

[targetman377]

Sorry I have been extremely busy with work that I have not really had much chance to catch up on my reading on this post, I have done a lot of reading up just trying to understand how romeo & juliet and the knights templar play in.. if this is a classic then there good easily be a third party, I did some reading and third party could be Paris the prince of Verona that Juliet was promised to before meeting Romeo.

I am still trying to wrap my head a round why Knights Templars are involved???

\

Bleed Green - I'd like you to tell me the name of your character (no need for alignment, power or winning condition - I just want the name).

So this is all i see on your case against bleed! now I don't know how speculation on the theme of the game warrants a full claim.

[targetman377]

rodion where are the posts that line up that role of think that would be easy to understand i think