EW's Semi-Open Matrix Madness

[strike wolf]

How would it make sense for me and vot to knowingly be aligned and act this way towards each other? All either of us has done is draw attention to the other without actually bussing which would just be bad scum strategy.

As far as a "right to ask that questioning, I'm not going to shy away from asking a question just because I may have been in a similar position. If something is off, I'm going to question it. Yes, I voted DDS and yes the vote shift from Swang to DDS was strange and worth looking into more.

The counter strategy part just reads like gibberish to me.

[Ragian]

Gotta agree with LC here. It's odd that you find a switch you helped seal strange. I can't explain why some people changed their minds at the last minute. You have to ask them.

[Loose Canon]

And strike you mentioned counter strategy and got me thinking if there was one and if so what it might be

And your you and Vot bussing argument seemed a bit preprepared ready for a later defence if vot lynched and flipped mafia.

Definite fos strike, it's all circumstantial I know, but the glove does look like it will fit.

[Votanic]

And strike you mentioned counter strategy and got me thinking if there was one and if so what it might be

And your you and Vot bussing argument seemed a bit preprepared ready for a later defence if vot lynched and flipped mafia.

Definite fos strike, it's all circumstantial I know, but the glove does look like it will fit.

LC, if this mere game-thread were an entire universe, your scummy, BS-generating capability would be truly Quasar Class.
In sheer mass and scale, the cosmic immensity of your pointless and unsubstantiated nonsense is virtually beyond comprehension!!

[Loose Canon]

Love the photo vot - did you take it yourself?
Look forward to working with you - maybe in the next game though.
Do volcanoes have their own accretion disk -
Maybe you should get one?

[Charle]

FYI, i am abroad at a wedding for the next few days so don't expect much in the way of input.

Having said that vote charle

Must be one MOTHER of a wedding!!

[Ragian]

Well...we're at an impasse here. Could we get a vote count and perhaps a cattle prod to those who haven't posted for a while?

[pmchugh]

Yeah my bad. I forgot about this game. Will read up.

[pmchugh]

I guess Vot had posted between me hitting post reply and hitting submit. Either way, can we get a vote count?

Also Vote Swang.

I think Swang gives us more information from how he flips than Vot would and the way yesterday ended is still the part of this game that sticks out to me.

Swang is scum: PMC would probably towards the top of my scum list then. He was a major part of the bandwagon turning. I would also like to look more at Ragian in this case. I feel this is a little less concrete as he was on DDS long before the bandwagon shifted but his post above did downplay the Swang case by making it all about his activity and ignoring how the day ended with the sudden bandwagon shift. I don't really know how to read Max very well but he was another who pushed DDS. Ragian also connected himself with Max some. So if one of them flips scum then it could be worthwhile to look into the other.

Swang is town: I would be more willing to trust PMC in particular. It's hard to tell if Pix is just being his normal inactive or scummy inactive with the way he's just kind of popped in at times. Particularly times like this last one where he popped in, gave minimal explanation and will now probably disappear again.

I have my misgivings about Vot and Kong either way. Kong is the one who I feel slightly more interested in. He's felt less active than he did in the last game where he was town and in there where his behavior was more questioning, here he's seemed more opportunistic about how he jumped onto cases D1. There's also the part where he sucked up to and tried to flatter Vot which felt like he could have just been hoping to get on Vot's good side.

This is the second person to make me the architect of the switch when I literally sat and watched swang die only for others to change the vote after the deadline, and somehow no one mentions them as having voted them. I was leaning really town on strike from other reads, so going to chalk this down as misreading the game for now, but still.

P.s. I am feeling better about vot in this game, still not sure why he voted day 1 the way he did and I disagree withmodt of his takes but still

[pmchugh]

I honestly feel charle is a much better target than either of the voted players. Nothing has changed my mind. When we were scum together he would make a little plan of who he was going to accuse in scum chat and then go act on it the next day. Last game as town he did not do that. I am his target this game.

I guess with less than two days to the deadline I may have to change based on the vote counts, but will wait a bit to see if anyone sees what I do.

[swang918]

I honestly feel charle is a much better target than either of the voted players. Nothing has changed my mind. When we were scum together he would make a little plan of who he was going to accuse in scum chat and then go act on it the next day. Last game as town he did not do that. I am his target this game.

I guess with less than two days to the deadline I may have to change based on the vote counts, but will wait a bit to see if anyone sees what I do.

now this is different from what charle said about that game which is that pmc was masterminding the whole thing. so what really went on there?

[Loose Canon]

I don't think it is different from what I observed as a neutral Serial Killer and from what I have read.
I think the masterminding probably was PMC but that Charle would have still aired this thoughts and made his plans within a masterscheme.
A bit like a football team (my position is goalkeeper) - I'm never captain, but the defence still wants me to tell them what I'm seeing and to participate in the organisation of the defence.
I don't see an inconsistency between PM having been mastermind and what he has said about how Charle played.

What PMC has said does actually throw a credible FOS on Charle for me.
I'm sticking with my vote on Vot but now I do have 3 suspect of my own plus Charle (and all 4 can't be mafia).

[Loose Canon]

And this is why I'd prefer to narrow lynch candidates down to 2 per lynching.
I have 4 under FOS now.
Amongst all the different townies there will be innumerable permutations of players with fos on them.
It makes it too too easy for mafia to divert votes onto an innocent townie.

I say air suspicions as and when you have them (you may die before airing them otherwise).
But don't go into the late stages of a lynch decision with more than 2 candidates.

PMC - I say Charle can wait till another day.

[Extreme Ways]

Apologies for my absence, RL happened. Will post an up to date vc in a couple hours

[Extreme Ways]

2.After many years and many thousands of games, the basics of game balance in Mafia has already largely been figured out. Therefore rein in any creative modding ideas that tip the balance away from already established means. Don't romanticize mountainous/no-PR games as being more pure, and seriously rethink any game design that gives scum more additional PR power than Town. knowing oyur teammates and getting to kill one of the other theam each night is already a huge amount of power for scum.
Yes, I recognize that some third party roles are unavoidably long shots to win aone... however,in many of those cases, such third parties can be considered to technically win with either town or scum, depending on the role.

Also wanted to respond to this part. If you're creating a new setup, you can run them by experienced people to give their opinion or you can test-play them. Mountainous/no pr games are slightly scum-favoured, but adding an extra town is way worse. Only playing the same setups all the time (doc + cop = boring) gets tiring, so people keep innovating setups. There's a reason why so many different roles exist.

This setup in particular has been extensively tested and is balanced.

[Extreme Ways]

Votecount:
swang (5) - Vot, charle, fusibaseball, pix, strike wolf
Charle (1) - PMC
Votanic (2) - swang, LC

I'd give you all another 2 days due to my absence but that'd be bastard modding

[pmchugh]

Yeah I was coming up with the big plans but charle had ideas and contributed too.

With 7 to lynch that seems like swang is for it. My gut tells me we hit nothing because otherwise scum are just sacrificing him at this stage, but I haven't actually seen him do much towny.

[Ragian]

I don't like the prospect of this lynch much. Of the alternatives, I'd look to Charle for misrepresenting my play, but not many people go for the LAL-policy anymore.

I'm disappointed in the level of participation, however. While I don't find it that meaningful to lynch a non-contributor early doors, it doesn't sit well with me that Devante, King, Kong, Pix, and Traf and to some extent Max, Fusi, and PMC have not really been around D2 much (granted the latter two have bothered to vote). The thing about townies being silent is that it makes it perfectly easy for scum to just do the same. (I also do understand real life issues, I'm merely talking from a mafia game point of view.)

So, should we get some prods going or mod kills or what?

[Votanic]

I don't like the prospect of this lynch much. Of the alternatives, I'd look to Charle for misrepresenting my play, but not many people go for the LAL-policy anymore.

I'm disappointed in the level of participation, however. While I don't find it that meaningful to lynch a non-contributor early doors, it doesn't sit well with me that Devante, King, Kong, Pix, and Traf and to some extent Max, Fusi, and PMC have not really been around D2 much (granted the latter two have bothered to vote). The thing about townies being silent is that it makes it perfectly easy for scum to just do the same. (I also do understand real life issues, I'm merely talking from a mafia game point of view.)

So, should we get some prods going or mod kills or what?

All I'm seeing is the exact same cast of usual suspects plotting to take the lynch off swang...

[Ragian]

Are you saying that one shouldn't try to avoid a lynch that one disagrees with? What is the case on swang even? That he didn't participate till the end of D1?

[pmchugh]

Are you saying that one shouldn't try to avoid a lynch that one disagrees with? What is the case on swang even? That he didn't participate till the end of D1?

Good question. I mean there are loads of non contributers, and it often isn't even alignment indicative. As far as I can tell, his unlikely survival yesterday seems to be the reason, people wondering why he was saved and lining him up with the DDS voters. Of course, that leaves the original question in tact, why was he targetted yesterday and that was for activity, whereas people were suss on DDS for changing playstyle, which means that townies were justified in voting for DDS over swang, destroying the narrative for today that the switch was scummy.

All of this is complicated by the face swang hasn't really done anything townie either, so he could be scum, but if he is I don't know how people have managed to conclude that.

[Loose Canon]

Swang is an easy I would go as far as saying lazy candidate for lynching.
But what roused my suspicions was the players posting early on that they couldn't see any other outcome D2 than a Swang lynch.
It was sort of preparing the groundwork for a mislynch on Swang - I thought.
I take the point that Swang perhaps hasn't done a lot townie.
I think a vote on Swang is just like sticking a pin to select a horse to bet on.
And I think there are scum feels on other players so we can and should try to do better than pinsticking.

[Charle]

Yeah my bad. I forgot about this game. Will read up.

I must say, because scum talk to each other during the day, this might change my mind that I read town on PMC. Scum would prod each other I would guess, or could it be scum strategy?

[Charle]

Whatever Swang will turn out to be, Scum or Town, it is going to be an interesting result and I have a feeling we might be able to work with that.

[Charle]

I honestly feel charle is a much better target than either of the voted players. Nothing has changed my mind. When we were scum together he would make a little plan of who he was going to accuse in scum chat and then go act on it the next day. Last game as town he did not do that. I am his target this game.

I guess with less than two days to the deadline I may have to change based on the vote counts, but will wait a bit to see if anyone sees what I do.

You fell off the bus completely this time bud, I am 100% town.