Cat. Mafia Pain Killer & Kwanton WIN

[Incandenza]

confirm and you know who i am coming after

does anybody thought about this?

wouldn't mafia try to kill red bull before he can say all that he knows and suspects?

Are you implying something?

Okay, first off, PK's basic assumption is flawed. red bull 2 was a random vigilante, and that's not an investigative role. Thus he may suspect a bunch, but 'known' sweet f*ck all, which makes it even weirder that the mafia killed him. Besides, if he really had said, for example, 'I suspect player A deeply', and player A was actually scum, t'would be a sorry sort of scum that would immediately kill red bull.

Also, it's been discussed about whether or not red bull might have killed balsie. Possible, and given that he was a 'random' vigilante, sort of an interesting concept. I've said before that the balsie hit makes absolutely no sense, which could be explained by red bull randomly targeting someone and it ended up being balsie.

LSU, if it's within the bounds of the game for you to tell us, I'd be obliged if you could let us know just what the random vigilante role entails.

And pcm and fircoal, I'd love to hear your thoughts on ga7.

[Fircoal]

And pcm and fircoal, I'd love to hear your thoughts on ga7.

WEll I think his list is better than Aimless's and holds more truth to it. Also your point about them getting suspicion and just killing it, does disprove it a bit, but your forgetting the old framing theory. It could be either. Though I still think it's a lost cause because my idea is that RB killed BAl, and they killed RB.

I don't think MAndy is scummy for the same reasons, but it is something to look in to.

[Fircoal]

8. mandalorian2298
-Didn't want to vote for Chad on page 8, tried to switch the heat on me
-page 13 Only FOSing Chad when the deadline was coming??
-page 21 First to vote No Lynch after Redbull's lynch
-Tried to start a bandwagon on Spin for inactivity
Besides the facts above, Mandy has been quite low-key, and his posts trying to move the heat were pretty subtle. Now, I realize I'm yet again pretty agressive and that can be seen as an attempt to put the heat off me, but I've been convinced since long and don't want to let him get away with all this.

Vote Mandy.

(This is also answer to Ica's FOS, I just didn't want to make the quote too big.)

First and formost: vote ga7 for being mafia.
To respond your accusations:
1) I didn't vote for Chad because I didn't know that he was scum
2) I was FOSing chad, but you were voting Red Bull. I think that it is abundantly obvious who was 'moving the heat from him'. Also, I NEVER protect my scum-buddies. "If you get yourself in trouble, you won't pull me in with you ", is my motto.
3. Didn't you read my whole post? I think I presented good reasons for stoping at two blind lynches (though I changed my mind when Aimless pointed out the advantages of killing one more.)
4. I'm pissed of at Spin because of his behaviour of late (He is on my black list). And since we were going to blind-lynch someone I wanted to mix buissnes with pleasure.

While you're defense is good and explains most of it, except for the fact, that I haven't seen as much Classic MAndy as before, this doesn't explain why you're voting for Ga7.

Fos: MAndy

[kwanton]

unvote
vote ga7

Explanation will follow tomorrow when I have more time.

No one else found this suspicious? Really? Voting then leaving could be very bad for the town. It's not as bad now with this many players but it still would be better to wait til you could make your points and have enough time to argue and defend. Chances of a major bandwagon are pretty low but why would you just vote and say explain later?

FOS Koesen

[Fircoal]

unvote
vote ga7

Explanation will follow tomorrow when I have more time.

No one else found this suspicious? Really? Voting then leaving could be very bad for the town. It's not as bad now with this many players but it still would be better to wait til you could make your points and have enough time to argue and defend. Chances of a major bandwagon are pretty low but why would you just vote and say explain later?

FOS Koesen

no I didn't find is suspicious, I know that mafia is about being paraniod, but don't you think it could be just because he doesn't have enough time. You didn't even mention the most likely posabilty.

Fos: Kwan

[kwanton]

Actually I did. I stated that koesen should have waited til he had enough time to make his arguments. He said he'd be back tomorow. That's before the deadline. Far as I'm concerned a vote with no real backing is useless. There was nothing to lose for him in waiting til he had enough time.

[Fircoal]

Actually I did. I stated that koesen should have waited til he had enough time to make his arguments. He said he'd be back tomorow. That's before the deadline. Far as I'm concerned a vote with no real backing is useless. There was nothing to lose for him in waiting til he had enough time.

Sometimes, people feel that they should vote when they can and have the explaination later. I think it's just difference of opinion. Maybe, he wanted people to know that he argeed with the Ga7 vote.

[Incandenza]

And pcm and fircoal, I'd love to hear your thoughts on ga7.

WEll I think his list is better than Aimless's and holds more truth to it. Also your point about them getting suspicion and just killing it, does disprove it a bit, but your forgetting the old framing theory.

Yeah, I would be forgetting the framing theory if:
A) killing Balsie and red bull pointed to exactly no one and
B) framing rarely works, because everyone knows that framing is always a possibility and tend to move on to other prospects

And kwanton, I'm not wild about the koesen vote-and-dash either, but it at least keeps some heat on ga7, from whom I cannot wait to hear.

[Fircoal]

And pcm and fircoal, I'd love to hear your thoughts on ga7.

WEll I think his list is better than Aimless's and holds more truth to it. Also your point about them getting suspicion and just killing it, does disprove it a bit, but your forgetting the old framing theory.

Yeah, I would be forgetting the framing theory if:
A) killing Balsie and red bull pointed to exactly no one and
B) framing rarely works, because everyone knows that framing is always a possibility and tend to move on to other prospects

then why didn't you say about it. I think it could be a possibitiy. Though I still say RB killed BAl.

[kalishnikov]

That said, a couple of people have FOS'ed/Voted mandy. I would like to reiterate my above statement : I have good reason to believe he is not scum.

That said, my reason is not perfect (that is, there's the possibility that he's still scum; what I know regarding him is not a 100% guarantee); however, I'll know for certain if he roleclaims. Thus, if you believe him to be scum, pressure him, but don't hammer until I get a chance to see his claim.

Well... I've basically given away all but the details by saying what I have; so I'll come out with it.

I'm a power role. I'm not a cop; but I do have an investigative ability. I targeted mandy with it last night, and my result suggests that he's town; however, I won't know for certain unless he claims. If he does claim, though, I will basically be able to tell if he's lying, and thus that should confirm what I know.

I'm not going to give the specifics of my role, because knowledge of it will defeat it.

That said, it leads me to believe perhaps madalorian is the cop. With no (serious) cop claims as of yet, it could be a possibility, thus:

First and formost: vote ga7 for being mafia.

without any further explanation. Sounds to me like he investigated ga7 and got a guilty verdict, but just didn't want to say it in so many words.

So I'll Vote: ga7 and see what happens.

[kwanton]

Kalish I see your point. If ga7 is not scum though then mandy will be next for me.

Before I vote can we get a count?

[Pain Killer]

i second the vote count

[Fircoal]

That said, a couple of people have FOS'ed/Voted mandy. I would like to reiterate my above statement : I have good reason to believe he is not scum.

That said, my reason is not perfect (that is, there's the possibility that he's still scum; what I know regarding him is not a 100% guarantee); however, I'll know for certain if he roleclaims. Thus, if you believe him to be scum, pressure him, but don't hammer until I get a chance to see his claim.

Well... I've basically given away all but the details by saying what I have; so I'll come out with it.

I'm a power role. I'm not a cop; but I do have an investigative ability. I targeted mandy with it last night, and my result suggests that he's town; however, I won't know for certain unless he claims. If he does claim, though, I will basically be able to tell if he's lying, and thus that should confirm what I know.

I'm not going to give the specifics of my role, because knowledge of it will defeat it.

That said, it leads me to believe perhaps madalorian is the cop. With no (serious) cop claims as of yet, it could be a possibility, thus:

First and formost: vote ga7 for being mafia.

without any further explanation. Sounds to me like he investigated ga7 and got a guilty verdict, but just didn't want to say it in so many words.

So I'll Vote: ga7 and see what happens.

Sure, he could be the cop, but I think it would be better if we don't estimate on whether he's the cop or not. Because if Ga7 turns out scum, he'll be dead anyway. SO I think if he's the cop he should claim it.

[Fircoal]

That said, a couple of people have FOS'ed/Voted mandy. I would like to reiterate my above statement : I have good reason to believe he is not scum.

That said, my reason is not perfect (that is, there's the possibility that he's still scum; what I know regarding him is not a 100% guarantee); however, I'll know for certain if he roleclaims. Thus, if you believe him to be scum, pressure him, but don't hammer until I get a chance to see his claim.

Well... I've basically given away all but the details by saying what I have; so I'll come out with it.

I'm a power role. I'm not a cop; but I do have an investigative ability. I targeted mandy with it last night, and my result suggests that he's town; however, I won't know for certain unless he claims. If he does claim, though, I will basically be able to tell if he's lying, and thus that should confirm what I know.

I'm not going to give the specifics of my role, because knowledge of it will defeat it.

That said, it leads me to believe perhaps madalorian is the cop. With no (serious) cop claims as of yet, it could be a possibility, thus:

First and formost: vote ga7 for being mafia.

without any further explanation. Sounds to me like he investigated ga7 and got a guilty verdict, but just didn't want to say it in so many words.

So I'll Vote: ga7 and see what happens.

Sure, he could be the cop, but I think it would be better if we don't estimate on whether he's the cop or not. Because if Ga7 turns out scum, he'll be dead anyway. SO I think if he's the cop he should claim it. So wait for that time to see if he's a cop or not.

ABWOP = Additional by way of Post

[Balsiefen]

Ach damn it!

Anyway, if you need a replacement I'll give it another shot

[ga7]

Hoi, don't go lynching me overnight please
Explanations/possibly claim/etc will follow once brain start working (and after way too many turns)

[ga7]

Well, first of all it might be a bit early with only 4 votes on me but as said Incan the deadline will be coming up quicker that it seems so: I'm the roleblocker.
That said, the way I understand it roleblocker isn't a very useful role, as even if I block scum I'd have to block the right one to actually prevent kills. So, if there is absolutely no leads and town needs a deadline extension, I'm fine with being lynched. As long as you don't screw up with the next lynches that is

Now, let's see what my accusers have to say:

First and formost: vote ga7 for being mafia.

Ok, that's a case for sure. Oh My God etc etc.

Now I'm torn, and the deadline is sooner than we think. Personally, I think if we try and vote mandy to get him to roleclaim, we won't have enough time to put together a case for another lynch before the deadline expires. And all things considered, I'd rather have the devil I know than the devil I don't, so to speak.

The deadline argument. I'm fine with it, if you lynch correctly after, as I said. Though I have the feeling Mandy will not pop up very often after

unvote
vote ga7

Explanation will follow tomorrow when I have more time.

Well, that's nice. This gives me a lot of things to defend from neh?

That said, it leads me to believe perhaps madalorian is the cop. With no (serious) cop claims as of yet, it could be a possibility, thus:

First and formost: vote ga7 for being mafia.

without any further explanation. Sounds to me like he investigated ga7 and got a guilty verdict, but just didn't want to say it in so many words.

So I'll Vote: ga7 and see what happens.

Mandy cop? Nah, if I was only a townie it could be so convenient, bad luck there About the cop thing, I'll come back to it, but the possibility of Mandy really being a cop is far too remote.


That's it. We can wait for a counter claim that will never come (and if it does I count on you to lynch us both, as we won't have the lynch results before the night and as I said I don't think roleblocker is that useful a power role); or we can try to get other leads. As for me I'll pursue on Mandy and others. More to come later, I need a break

[Pain Killer]

it is very possible that mandy is a cop and therefold found out that ga7 si scum, i say we lynch ga7 today and if he is scum, the doctor should protect mandy, if he isn't than being a catastrophe mafia, he could easily lynch mandy tomorrow and go about our buisness.

so for now vote ga7, i'm still waiting replys from both of them, if mandy doesn't have a good reason for lynching ga7, than my vote would change.

[ga7]

PK, could it be that you took 15 mns to write this?

Well, back to business, you won't make me stop with your vote!

Let's look at Mandy's defense.

1) I didn't vote for Chad because I didn't know that he was scum
2) I was FOSing chad, but you were voting Red Bull. I think that it is abundantly obvious who was 'moving the heat from him'. Also, I NEVER protect my scum-buddies. "If you get yourself in trouble, you won't pull me in with you ", is my motto.
3. Didn't you read my whole post? I think I presented good reasons for stoping at two blind lynches (though I changed my mind when Aimless pointed out the advantages of killing one more.)
4. I'm pissed of at Spin because of his behaviour of late (He is on my black list). And since we were going to blind-lynch someone I wanted to mix buissnes with pleasure.

1&2: No, when you posted this my vote wasn't on RB but on Chad. Geez, I even posted the page number. Matter of fact, the deadline was coming close, we weren't sure if we could get a lynch, and yet you avoid voting. You might never protect your scum buddies, but that doesn't mean you wouldn't avoid voting for them if the lynch isn't clear.
3: I read it, and presented the reasons why it was weird back then. I understand you retracted this opinion, but it still striked me as scummy that you were so eager to finish with this bad day for scum.
4: Fair enough, I'm pissed off at Spin too, and this could have made a fine 3rd lynch, but pushing for lynching inactives is still a scum-tell IMO so I putted it there too.

Ok, I looked back mostly at Chad's lynch because as RB was SK, I'm not sure it brings us as much info.

Not true. I guarantee that there were scum onboard the red bull lynch, probably more than were on the chad lynch.

Of course there were, but I thought Aimless already covered it pretty well with his list, as in RB's case there weren't so many unvotes and hesitations; as Aimless presented the final vote counts in both lynches the part on RB is accurate.

Scum took at shot with Balsie, a not obvious NK choice as he was in the heat at the end of the day. Wouldn't that be perfect to incriminate his accusers? (And yeah, that includes me too )

Also not true. It doesn't work like that. What's the point of the mafia drumming up suspicion against someone and then NKing them, unless the rest of the town was adamant about not killing said person (which was not the case with balsie)

Well, this NK matter is complicated, but what you said there doesn't make sense to me. It wasn't clear at all that we would go on lynching Balsie the day after, and why wouldn't the mafia try to incriminate his accusers? It's a bit of a WIFOM I guess

I'm a power role. I'm not a cop; but I do have an investigative ability. I targeted mandy with it last night, and my result suggests that he's town; however, I won't know for certain unless he claims. If he does claim, though, I will basically be able to tell if he's lying, and thus that should confirm what I know.

This, and the NKs matter, makes me think people forget something: the setup of catastrophe mafia needs to be balanced. Exile pointed out some time ago the possibility of another SK remaining if the mafia really has only one NK. That makes me think that unless we got somehow lucky RB didn't use his power. But I'm still more inclined to think the mafia has 2 NKs.

Now, about the investigate roles, it seems weird to me that there'd be 2 of them. So, if there's really a cop out there, IMO this claim is a bit fishy. It's also possible Aimless has the only investigative role... Either way, I'm not convinced we should rely too heavily on this. I'm also not sure I understand why you wanted a mass roleclaim if your only investigation came up as townie Aimless... I feel this deserves to be examined more in depth, soFOS Aimless.

[0ojakeo0]

that musta took alot of time to write

[kalishnikov]

Its not that odd that there would be 2 investigative roles in catastrophe mafia, a cop and a FBI agent or any number of other things, and knowing LSU, I wouldn't at all be surprised if there was a backup cop out there as well.

As far as ga7 being the roleblocker, that I believe, I just see no positive evidence at this moment (other then his claim) to say that he's town, and since we've got absolutely zero leads other then him, my vote stays. He's still not close to lynch yet, I can always unvote if things come up.

If mandalorian is the cop, I still don't think he should claim, especially since our doc's dead. Why feed another of our power roles to the wolves? I'm thinking Aimless is right, and since mandalorian has been exposed as at least pro-town, he will probably be NKed by the scum anyway whether he's cop or not.

Kalish I see your point. If ga7 is not scum though then mandy will be next for me.

Before I vote can we get a count?

I agree, if ga7 comes up clean (which I doubt right now) he's going to be next on a lot of people's lists, including mine.

[kalishnikov]

that musta took alot of time to write

Not to be mean but theres really no need for you to post here at this point,
you've been modkilled/blacklisted.

[kwanton]

It sounded to me like aimless is the gunsmith or whatever its called. Investigates like a cop but instead of scum/town he finds out whether or not the person has a gun. Only thing is if mandy is a cop he would have a gun.

I'm sure there are other investigative role possibilities but I'm not familiar with them.

[kalishnikov]

It sounded to me like aimless is the gunsmith or whatever its called. Investigates like a cop but instead of scum/town he finds out whether or not the person has a gun. Only thing is if mandy is a cop he would have a gun.

I'm sure there are other investigative role possibilities but I'm not familiar with them.

Possibly, but as far as I'm aware, the gunsmith just finds out whether you have a gun or not, not what your alignment is. However I could be wrong.

[Fircoal]

If mandalorian is the cop, I still don't think he should claim, especially since our doc's dead. Why feed another of our power roles to the wolves? I'm thinking Aimless is right, and since mandalorian has been exposed as at least pro-town, he will probably be NKed by the scum anyway whether he's cop or not.

YOu've proved why MAndy should claim cop if he is, and you said he shouldn't. If you think he is going to die anyway. Why not let him say all he has to before the NK

Fos: Kalish

Kalish I see your point. If ga7 is not scum though then mandy will be next for me.

Before I vote can we get a count?

I agree, if ga7 comes up clean (which I doubt right now) he's going to be next on a lot of people's lists, including mine.

Why? YOU'RE All the ones who put in the Mandy cop theory NOT MANDY!

FOS: Everyone who either, thinks MAndy shouldn't claim, or thinks that if Ga7 is town, and MAndy said nothing about being a cop thinks MAndy should be lynched. Both VERY scummy ideas.