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Re: Chris Nolan Mafia - Day 3 - Mistaken Identity

Postby Streaker on Mon May 09, 2011 2:04 am

I agree that Fir and Vio seem to be up to something. As I said before, they are scaring us into leaving them alone. Waaaay to easy with giving role information (even about each other).

As for my claim, what is so hard to believe? Leonard had 1 goal in the movie: KILL John G. If I directed my night action to him, it would be insta kill. If not, there is a 1 in 3 chance I either kill, protect, or roleblock. Also, what is so hard to believe about me being town? Leonard isn't a bad guy, he just wanted revenge.

Even if I would be evil, the Joker is still a considerably much bigger threat if you can count. One kill (possibly even 2) > then a 1/3 chance of kill.

Vio states that she hasn't been targeted yet. Sure. Why would we believe that in the first place?

I think best suspect for Joker would be sheep. His claim seems the most off.

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Re: Chris Nolan Mafia - Day 3 - Mistaken Identity

Postby sheepofdumb on Mon May 09, 2011 11:18 am

The only thing I don't trust about your role claim is your alignment. During the day everyone is going to act like town regardless of actual affiliation. So is it more believable that it's 5 town, 4 non, 2 anti or 6 town, 4 non, and 1 anti. If town has to eliminate all threats then kill the joker and win the game. With a cop and a impersonator that means either the joker has to be a god like killer or there are a couple anti town roles. I'm waiting for either faction to win. I will help town as best as I can. If town looses there's no skin off my back. I'm helping hunt the Joker and tonight I can role block lenny. Town has tunnel vision hunting Joker. That isn't so bad given that he's the biggest threat. You can't forget that there are other threats to the town. Like it or not leonard qualifies as a threat.

Fircoal and Violet are borderline for me. If leonard is anti town then the claim that fir and violet are non town lynchers is believable. If leonard is not then they are anti town. If they are anti town the alignment then its 6, 2, 3. Its believable for balance but the flavor strongly favors them being non town.

What's so off about my claim? I'm a non town role blocker bringing the non town count to 2 or 4 depending on your view. I went after violet first night but commander made me target spiesr.
Spiesr wrote:Night 1 I attempted to go to edocsil, but was stopped by a shadowy figure. This is why I wondered if had been role-blocked that night.
Commander9 wrote:Night 1 I directed Sheep to Spiesr


Last night I blocked edoc and we didn't see any kills last night. Lenny didn't kill and Joker was blocked by a redirected tails. Scene flavor shows that.

Now if we take a look at spiesr there is some major scum tells from him in the past two pages.
Spiesr wrote:On a completely different note, Streaker is Lenny from Memento. Presumably the guy who killed the real Batman. So yeah, I am going to need some sort of explanation of your actions there buddy. Why did you kill nagerous? Are you pro-town or something else? Of course, you probably don't remember anything

Really, or are you just glad to have your worthy opponent back so you can defeat him yourself? Because, at this point the Joker is either you or sheep. (Unless someone has successfully lied about their role?)


His first post today he gives Streaker to the town and proclaims his innocence. He's so sure he's been cleared that he can now take his name off the list of suspects with 100% confidence.

Streaker wrote:True, and of those I think we should scratch spiesr. Leaving commander and sheep.

Scum buddy taking the fall and shifting attention off his mate. It's the perfect plan.

Spiesr wrote:I am Cobb, from Following, not Inception. My role is Thief, my alignment is town. I have had a chance to watch Following since this game began, and will agree that my character's actions at the end don't seem very pro-town, but that is what my alignment is. I guess pancakemix couldn't make everybody 3rd party.
Night 1 I attempted to go to edocsil, but was stopped by a shadowy figure. This is why I wondered if had been role-blocked that night. Now it seems that that figure was nagerous blocking all actions toward edocsil for some reason.
Last Night, I targeted Streaker and was successful. I broke into his motel room and stole his pictures and his license plate number that he wanted to tattoo himself with, and his shaving cream. From this it was fairly obvious that he was Lenny. Also, I figured out that my role steals info about the character, rather than the powers which I had thought it would.


This brings up the investigation count to 2 and 1/2. There was already a cop and a impersonator for when he croaked. Next he claims he was of town alignment. This brings the count of town up and the non-town to 1 to 3 if I'm Joker (7 3 1 or 6 3 2 depending on your view of streaker. 7 1 3 if fir and vio are scum). He claims to have been role blocked (this much is true) Next he sells out Streaker more with his night 2 action.

Spiesr wrote:Okay, now sheep. Give us your explanation. Role claim. Are you to Joker? If not give us a reason to believe you.


spiesr wrote:
Commander9 wrote:Yes, yes it does - Pro Town Mind Controller. Night 1 I directed Sheep to Spiesr while Night 2 I directed TG to VioIet (possible reason for no kill as Vio has an extra life?). Yes, pretty much (your last sentence). I just choose a person who I "incept" and whom I use to use his ability on another person, but I don't know the outcome.
Okay, that explains why my message said nobody targeted me while Tailgunner claimed to have used his Batman power on me. So I pretty much believe your claim at this point. Therefor Vote Sheep unless he can convince me that he is not the Joker...


Spiesr looks over commanders claim, clears him, and goes after me. He's so confident that he's been cleared that he can be really agressive. He's reached endgame scum agression. He's really eager about my lynch. Probably because I'm the only target left that doesn't have a solid claim.

Spiesr wrote:Doesn't the fact that I knew Streaker was Leonard count for something? Or are you saying that we are scumbuddies and that I knew his role that way?

His only defense against my case so far has been "I sold out my scumbuddy, doesn't that count for something?"
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Re: Chris Nolan Mafia - Day 3 - Mistaken Identity

Postby sheepofdumb on Mon May 09, 2011 11:41 am

Also to note: IMO Streaker is a sold out scum mate that wants to give his scum mate the best chance at survival. Joker is more important right now but Lenny has seen no pressure. I wouldn't suggest we go after him but how much water does his opinion really hold? He's a threat to the town that claims he's on their side and is getting away with it under the shadow of the Joker. Streaker has been very loyal to Spiesr.

Streaker wrote:Added to spiesr's accusations of commander, I think he makes the best lead for now

Streaker wrote:True, and of those I think we should scratch spiesr. Leaving commander and sheep.

Streaker wrote:I think best suspect for Joker would be sheep. His claim seems the most off. Vote sheep
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Re: Chris Nolan Mafia - Day 3 - Mistaken Identity

Postby edocsil on Mon May 09, 2011 1:25 pm

That is very nice sheep but I am willing to bet you absolutely anything that the Joker is a lone faction. There may be other bad guys, but I doubt it, just many people all with conflicting WC. That assumption renders your entire argument moot.
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Re: Chris Nolan Mafia - Day 3 - Mistaken Identity

Postby sheepofdumb on Mon May 09, 2011 2:22 pm

Most of it maybe, but not all of it. At the very least we have Spiesr claiming a second investigation role but this one is pro-town. We have evidence of my role as a role blocker from both spiesr and commander.

There's a lot of evidence supporting a connected leonard and joker. Is it a perfect case? No, it rarely is mafia. I think the case is solid enough to put that assumption to bed. There's lots of evidence in their actions showing a link. Selling Streaker out, Streaker not fighting it, assumption of innocence in that claim, the loyalty Streaker shows towards Spiesr, their combined agression towards Spiesrs new target. All that against the idea that the two roles have no communication towards each other.

I don't know about you but I'd put my faith in the evidence here than a gut feeling. Not to mention that in the dark knight it's pretty clear that the Joker is willing to collaborate. He might be insane but he's not stupid.
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Re: Chris Nolan Mafia - Day 3 - Mistaken Identity

Postby edocsil on Mon May 09, 2011 3:20 pm

sheepofdumb wrote:Most of it maybe, but not all of it. At the very least we have Spiesr claiming a second investigation role but this one is pro-town. We have evidence of my role as a role blocker from both spiesr and commander.

There's a lot of evidence supporting a connected leonard and joker. Is it a perfect case? No, it rarely is mafia. I think the case is solid enough to put that assumption to bed. There's lots of evidence in their actions showing a link. Selling Streaker out, Streaker not fighting it, assumption of innocence in that claim, the loyalty Streaker shows towards Spiesr, their combined agression towards Spiesrs new target. All that against the idea that the two roles have no communication towards each other.

I don't know about you but I'd put my faith in the evidence here than a gut feeling. Not to mention that in the dark knight it's pretty clear that the Joker is willing to collaborate. He might be insane but he's not stupid.


But in the end he is always a lone man. He only wants chaos, nothing simple like revenge or power. To build a case that relies on connections when the connection my not in fact exist is risky business.
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Re: Chris Nolan Mafia - Day 3 - Mistaken Identity

Postby sheepofdumb on Mon May 09, 2011 3:50 pm

Well lets look at vendettas. We have me wanting Will dead, Leonard vs John G, Joker vs Batman, and the two magicians. So Spiesr claiming Cobb doesn't give him a vendetta and the inception cast lacks a vendetta. Inception characters lacking a vendetta makes sense. But Cobb to be here and not the young man stretches it a bit for me.

With batman dead it's obvious that Joker wants town dead. But he's the only one? That seems to be an unwinnable battle for Joker given what he's up against. For him not to have any help seems a little crazy. Plus he's the type of person who works with the mentally unstable.
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Re: Chris Nolan Mafia - Day 3 - Mistaken Identity

Postby edocsil on Mon May 09, 2011 5:16 pm

sheepofdumb wrote:Well lets look at vendettas. We have me wanting Will dead, Leonard vs John G, Joker vs Batman, and the two magicians. So Spiesr claiming Cobb doesn't give him a vendetta and the inception cast lacks a vendetta. Inception characters lacking a vendetta makes sense. But Cobb to be here and not the young man stretches it a bit for me.

With batman dead it's obvious that Joker wants town dead. But he's the only one? That seems to be an unwinnable battle for Joker given what he's up against. For him not to have any help seems a little crazy. Plus he's the type of person who works with the mentally unstable.


There are not many who are town IMO. I assume the Magicians are survivors, although it is likely in their interests to claim town to avoid being hung. By my best guess there were only about 5 town at the start of the game and multiple players who wouldn't fit the town profile due to their WC. My own WC is not standard for town, I have to see ALL other non town WC met or the non town dead. seeing as other people must kill me (Joker) to win they must die. So basically hang all non town killing roles and meet every neutral parties WC. Hence my extreme curiosity in WCs. Or I can simply win with town, but it is considered a minor victory. Basically, the stakes are high for everyone and I can plausibly see a single SK as the primary foe.
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Re: Chris Nolan Mafia - Day 3 - Mistaken Identity

Postby Commander9 on Mon May 09, 2011 5:24 pm

Just dropping by to say a thought that occured to me - if we all win if vendetta's are settled, Fir's and vio's vendetta is the last one...
But... It was so artistically done.
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Re: Chris Nolan Mafia - Day 3 - Mistaken Identity

Postby sheepofdumb on Mon May 09, 2011 5:44 pm

Non-town WC's or vendettas? Because so far most of the vendetta's have been resolved. Joker and batman, Will and Hap, Teddy and Leonard. The only vendetta left is between fir and violet. I don't know how the endgaming would work with such a weird setup but mayhaps we lynch either of the magicians people can start winning.
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Re: Chris Nolan Mafia - Day 3 - Mistaken Identity

Postby spiesr on Mon May 09, 2011 7:17 pm

sheepofdumb wrote:Non-town WC's or vendettas? Because so far most of the vendetta's have been resolved. Joker and batman, Will and Hap, Teddy and Leonard. The only vendetta left is between fir and violet. I don't know how the endgaming would work with such a weird setup but mayhaps we lynch either of the magicians people can start winning.
Well, we would have to kill the Joker first, but yeah once he is dead either Fircoal or Violet needs to die to resolve their vendetta before a town victory can be achieved. One question that I have for you now sheep, is why do you think that the Joker had killing Batman as a specific objective? I don't think we have really seen anything from any of the scenes that really suggests that. I mean, he clearly isn't like the other vendetta's that we have seen, since he is still killing people and whatnot. Why do you think he has this objective instead of being simply and SK? Did you get that idea in your head from your role pm and then forget that the town doesn't actually have that sort of information?
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Re: Chris Nolan Mafia - Day 3 - Mistaken Identity

Postby sheepofdumb on Mon May 09, 2011 7:35 pm

Three words Spiesr. Vendettas, Batman, Joker.
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Re: Chris Nolan Mafia - Day 3 - Mistaken Identity

Postby edocsil on Tue May 10, 2011 1:04 am

I read vendettas a as WC, but i can't be sure. Might fit better that way with it being just the three. Whatever the case, I am looking for joker now.
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Re: Chris Nolan Mafia - Day 3 - Mistaken Identity

Postby Streaker on Tue May 10, 2011 1:17 am

Like I already claimed, it's not hard to believe other characters would have similar role pm's.

It's not a big leep of faith to assume more then 1 player in this game has multiple (read: primary and/or secundary) WC's.

If the vendetta is resolved by the player intended, I don't know what happens. Endgamed/maybe given victory at endgame?
If the vendetta is resolved by 'accident' (like John. G), secundary WC kicks in. I think this is a very plausible scenario.

Also, I have no problems with being roleblocked at all. My next suggestion would be for me to not take a night action.

I see it like this:

-Hunt down Joker and see if endgame happens
-If not, kill either Vio or Fir. Alternatively (I don't actually wanna suggest this :D ), kill me. I just think it would be a more interesting lynch with either Vio or Fir to see if endgame happens if all vendetta's are resolved. You can still kill me later.
-Hope that are all the threats...
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Re: Chris Nolan Mafia - Day 3 - Mistaken Identity

Postby pancakemix on Wed May 11, 2011 8:10 am

Vote Count

Sheep-2 (Spiesr, Streaker)
Spiesr-1 (Sheep)

With 7 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Deadline is in 4 days.
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Re: Chris Nolan Mafia - Day 3 - Mistaken Identity

Postby Fircoal on Wed May 11, 2011 2:11 pm

Deadline's coming up. Are we gonna try to settle vendettas to see if that endgames or kill the joker to see if that endgames?
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Re: Chris Nolan Mafia - Day 3 - Mistaken Identity

Postby edocsil on Wed May 11, 2011 2:35 pm

If everyone has told the truth Sheep is Joker. Let us hang him and see if we have any liars.

Unvote Vote Sheep
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Re: Chris Nolan Mafia - Day 3 - Mistaken Identity

Postby Commander9 on Wed May 11, 2011 3:05 pm

Out of all the claims, Spiesr's is the one that I'm not really buying. Vote Spiesr.

(I'd personally would prefer to go for Vio/Fir to end the game now).
But... It was so artistically done.
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Re: Chris Nolan Mafia - Day 3 - Mistaken Identity

Postby spiesr on Wed May 11, 2011 4:25 pm

Fircoal wrote:Deadline's coming up. Are we gonna try to settle vendettas to see if that endgames or kill the joker to see if that endgames?
Well, in order to the town to win all threats to the town need to be eliminated and all vendetta's need to be settled. Simply settling your vendetta will not end the game at this point. So, we need to kill the Joker at some point. Since he can kill people, we should do it as soon as possible. Also, I would ask that either you or Violet cooperate with the attempt to lynch the Joker (sheep). Which ever one of you is more cooperative with the town is more likely to receive favorable treatment when we decide which one of you has to die and which one gets to win...
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Re: Chris Nolan Mafia - Day 3 - Mistaken Identity

Postby edocsil on Wed May 11, 2011 4:30 pm

spiesr wrote:
Fircoal wrote:Deadline's coming up. Are we gonna try to settle vendettas to see if that endgames or kill the joker to see if that endgames?
Well, in order to the town to win all threats to the town need to be eliminated and all vendetta's need to be settled. Simply settling your vendetta will not end the game at this point. So, we need to kill the Joker at some point. Since he can kill people, we should do it as soon as possible. Also, I would ask that either you or Violet cooperate with the attempt to lynch the Joker (sheep). Which ever one of you is more cooperative with the town is more likely to receive favorable treatment when we decide which one of you has to die and which one gets to win...


+1
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Re: Chris Nolan Mafia - Day 3 - Mistaken Identity

Postby Commander9 on Wed May 11, 2011 4:35 pm

If you guys prefer, I will vote for Sheep, but then I don't think we have a vig to kill off Spiesr, if he's the joker. Both of them have the weakest claims and I doubt Spiesr's just a little bit less. If you guys prefer, I'll vote for Sheep to get the lynch occurring, but I am a bit worried about this.
But... It was so artistically done.
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Re: Chris Nolan Mafia - Day 3 - Mistaken Identity

Postby Fircoal on Wed May 11, 2011 4:36 pm

spiesr wrote:
Fircoal wrote:Deadline's coming up. Are we gonna try to settle vendettas to see if that endgames or kill the joker to see if that endgames?
Well, in order to the town to win all threats to the town need to be eliminated and all vendetta's need to be settled. Simply settling your vendetta will not end the game at this point. So, we need to kill the Joker at some point. Since he can kill people, we should do it as soon as possible. Also, I would ask that either you or Violet cooperate with the attempt to lynch the Joker (sheep). Which ever one of you is more cooperative with the town is more likely to receive favorable treatment when we decide which one of you has to die and which one gets to win...


Will do. Which was why I was asking. Vote: Sheep Want me to cast the double vote too?
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Re: Chris Nolan Mafia - Day 3 - Mistaken Identity

Postby edocsil on Wed May 11, 2011 4:37 pm

May as well.
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Re: Chris Nolan Mafia - Day 3 - Mistaken Identity

Postby sheepofdumb on Wed May 11, 2011 6:54 pm

Well you caught Joker. I was going to suggest that I use my ability to kill vio and see how the endgame goes but you people were so focused on killing me it wasn't worth the risk.
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Re: Chris Nolan Mafia - Day 3 - Mistaken Identity

Postby Fircoal on Wed May 11, 2011 6:59 pm

sheepofdumb wrote:Well you caught Joker. I was going to suggest that I use my ability to kill vio and see how the endgame goes but you people were so focused on killing me it wasn't worth the risk.


1) I didn't actually put on the second vote until you posted this.

2) I don't think trying to make it seem like the Joker and the other scum were connected was that good of an idea.
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