Balance Not Included Come Back Mafia End Game: Mod Down!!!

[DirtyDishSoap]

You're killing me Rags.

I retracted my vote because of the following.
The BD argument. It makes sense, but no one has yet to claim, and I would still vote you back up being that you're our best case here. Thanks to Legion.
Maybe I'm just playing an entirely different game, where I should just see how things play out, instead of just hoping for reveals and eliminating on who's who. Different game...Again.

Jailor claim. As Samlen has said, it's a risky claim, easy to prove wrong, and the reason why I asked if there was a notification if you were jailed, is because I have those notifications for being jailed. Since Samlen can't prove you're jailor or not, and I most certainly can't, I felt no other choice than to retract my vote for the time being until either the day draws to an end, or new evidence rears itself.

No matter WHAT I would have done, you would have implicated me regardless. Attempting to get the impending bandwagon lynch off of yourself after Legions claim. Congrats.

Here's the truth of the matter. No one here knows how I play because I haven't played with anyone here. I'm the most likely "suspect" because I fall off of everyone's little comfort zone. Cool. Get it. But I rather take my chances with a lead over a scummy post.

As I said earlier, the vote went back up because I'm (trying) to take a back seat in this now, because no matter what I do or say is apparently making matters worse. So everyone else can figure it out and I'll just be a Mitch.

[Ragian]

Lynching me despite thinking there's no more to go on is hardly taking a backseat...

And no, I'm not killing you. I'm trying to, though, but I need help (Just to be clear, the smiley is supposed to indicate sarcasm - experience tells me to stress that.)

[DirtyDishSoap]

Hence is why I said I'll be like mitch.

And try harder damnit.

[Metsfanmax]

[color=#FF0000]
Mets - for the record, in regards to you being uncomfortable with DDs' particular role claim and his name - while this doesn't clear him of course, I thought it best to mention that my role name is also different to the pattern thus far. I only mention that because if my name differs from standard it becomes plausible that his could, therefore we can't use 'his name isn't in this format' as basis for our evidence.

I did not say that DDS's claimed character name plays any role in my suspicion of him being scum. I was merely explaining that I found the name odd and inconsistent and thus that this was the impetus for me consulting the original BNI game that strike hosted, which is where I found the information about the Solar Panel character, which was the actual important part of that post.

[Samlen]

Are people not allowed to express opinions and thoughts without backing it with a vote?

If that is the case then half the people in this game is scummy because no one is fucking voting.

I always said that a lynch is imperative and whilst there were question marks on ragi's case if nothing else materialised I would back it otherwise we will be steam rolling into another no lynch


There was a cult in the original BNI I wouldn't be surprised if there is one here considering the blaseness in regards to actually voting for people that a lot of players in this game have actually shown.

Of course people can express opinions without voting, it just seems weird when you say someone should be lynched and then don't vote until it became apparent that no other 'easy' case would come up. You make it sound like you want a lynch for the sake of lynching, regardless of how strong the case is and whether the person is town-sided or not. Of all the people trying to get ragian lynched, your reasoning bothers me the most and I definitely think that there's a higher chance of you being mafia than ragian.
Vote Nagerous

[dakky21]

I must say I still don't understand the logic here. I believe I did say that I don't believe Ragian would target Mitch (as others said as well), but the thing is - Leg targeted Ragian to postpone his action to day phase and the only thing that happened over the day is Mitch getting killed. It can mean Ragian did order a kill, but also any other action as block, watch, investigate (maybe few types of cop are in the game) etc. and just got his results mid-day? Or it can mean that scum have a day kill? Am I correct here?

I think I am, so Unvote Ragian. There are more chances that he did something else than sending a kill in and got the results in the day.

[nagerous]

Are people not allowed to express opinions and thoughts without backing it with a vote?

If that is the case then half the people in this game is scummy because no one is fucking voting.

I always said that a lynch is imperative and whilst there were question marks on ragi's case if nothing else materialised I would back it otherwise we will be steam rolling into another no lynch


There was a cult in the original BNI I wouldn't be surprised if there is one here considering the blaseness in regards to actually voting for people that a lot of players in this game have actually shown.

Of course people can express opinions without voting, it just seems weird when you say someone should be lynched and then don't vote until it became apparent that no other 'easy' case would come up. You make it sound like you want a lynch for the sake of lynching, regardless of how strong the case is and whether the person is town-sided or not. Of all the people trying to get ragian lynched, your reasoning bothers me the most and I definitely think that there's a higher chance of you being mafia than ragian.
Vote Nagerous

Well at least you have now bothered to show up and vote. Have to say I have been getting strong cult recruiter vibes from you, the whole I didn't send a night action and don't want to say anything, advocating the no lynch and day one and not voting day two until the deadline approaches has sat very uncomfortably with me.

[nagerous]

Samlen can you please also answer my question on page 17 which you chose to ignore or skim.

Did you tell strike wolf that you were doing no action or did you just not send an action?

[Metsfanmax]

Are people not allowed to express opinions and thoughts without backing it with a vote?

If that is the case then half the people in this game is scummy because no one is fucking voting.

I always said that a lynch is imperative and whilst there were question marks on ragi's case if nothing else materialised I would back it otherwise we will be steam rolling into another no lynch


There was a cult in the original BNI I wouldn't be surprised if there is one here considering the blaseness in regards to actually voting for people that a lot of players in this game have actually shown.

Of course people can express opinions without voting, it just seems weird when you say someone should be lynched and then don't vote until it became apparent that no other 'easy' case would come up. You make it sound like you want a lynch for the sake of lynching, regardless of how strong the case is and whether the person is town-sided or not. Of all the people trying to get ragian lynched, your reasoning bothers me the most and I definitely think that there's a higher chance of you being mafia than ragian.
Vote Nagerous

Well at least you have now bothered to show up and vote. Have to say I have been getting strong cult recruiter vibes from you, the whole I didn't send a night action and don't want to say anything, advocating the no lynch and day one and not voting day two until the deadline approaches has sat very uncomfortably with me.

Where the hell is this high horse coming from? Day 2 started on February 23 but you didn't vote yourself until two days ago on March 5. That is despite posting several times yourself before that without voting. You've got no right to start randomly criticize people for taking a while to vote.

[nagerous]

Are people not allowed to express opinions and thoughts without backing it with a vote?

If that is the case then half the people in this game is scummy because no one is fucking voting.

I always said that a lynch is imperative and whilst there were question marks on ragi's case if nothing else materialised I would back it otherwise we will be steam rolling into another no lynch


There was a cult in the original BNI I wouldn't be surprised if there is one here considering the blaseness in regards to actually voting for people that a lot of players in this game have actually shown.

Of course people can express opinions without voting, it just seems weird when you say someone should be lynched and then don't vote until it became apparent that no other 'easy' case would come up. You make it sound like you want a lynch for the sake of lynching, regardless of how strong the case is and whether the person is town-sided or not. Of all the people trying to get ragian lynched, your reasoning bothers me the most and I definitely think that there's a higher chance of you being mafia than ragian.
Vote Nagerous

Well at least you have now bothered to show up and vote. Have to say I have been getting strong cult recruiter vibes from you, the whole I didn't send a night action and don't want to say anything, advocating the no lynch and day one and not voting day two until the deadline approaches has sat very uncomfortably with me.

Where the hell is this high horse coming from? Day 2 started on February 23 but you didn't vote yourself until two days ago on March 5. That is despite posting several times yourself before that without voting. You've got no right to start randomly criticize people for taking a while to vote.

Not trying to have a high horse. I know I haven't been playing well / been inactive at points and probably coming across as a hypocrite. I just don't trust Samlen, I think it's weird that he advocated and supported DDS in his no lynch comments on page 8 then purportedly chose not to use his night action in night one by choice, then hasn't voted other than to start a new case suddenly 2 days to the end of day two . It doesn't add up to me.

[Metsfanmax]

Ok, but I don't think it's fair at all to hold the "no night action" thing against Samlen. It's completely plausible that Samlen has a one-shot action that didn't make sense to use just yet, or has a day action like double voter, or has no specific action at all (like X-shot bulletproof). There's so many possibilities here that it's really hard to use this as even weak evidence of Samlen's scumminess.

[Samlen]

[spoiler]

Well that's interesting. If I remember correctly, jailing is a roleblock/protect in one. I did not take any action last night, so I cannot confirm on whether or not I was roleblocked (Unless I'm supposed to be notified when I'm jailed). Though if legion's claim is truthful, then would that mean I'm jailed during this day? There're a lot of what-ifs and whatnot.
Possibilities:
Legion is mafia that got inno'd because of being godfather or lawyer ability and used this oppurtunity to fakeclaim/place blame on someone else
Coincidence: Mafia kill was blocked/delayed/is day kill and legion just happened to target ragian the jailer
Busdriver -> meaning whomever the busdriver bussed with ragian is likely mafia
Ragian is mafia and has just fakeclaimed. The problem with this one is if I HAD taken an action last night, I could have confirmed/denied if I was roleblocked, making ragian's claim more likely to be real than not.
Mafia sided roleblocker

I love having no solid info, makes the possibilities endless...

[spoiler]
As given from my very first post in responding to being jailed, I thought it quite apparent that I chose not to take an action last night. As for not making much of a case until recently, it's because it's hard to make a case with how little info I have. At this point it's more gut instinct and me thinking that Ragian shouldn't be lynched.

[Samlen]

Well so much for making the post smaller by spoiler'ing it. Another note, If I was scum trying to protect a scumbuddy, why would I wait so long to try and make a new case? It would make the most sense to try and come up with one much sooner so that it actually had time to gain momentum. And if I were a third-party cult leader, why even bother arguing with lynching ragian? It'd be way too easy to follow the 'confirmed' town legionairre and lynch ragian, giving the town almost no info in terms of my behavior since that would be a reasonable town reaction.

[Fircoal]

Are people not allowed to express opinions and thoughts without backing it with a vote?

If that is the case then half the people in this game is scummy because no one is fucking voting.

I always said that a lynch is imperative and whilst there were question marks on ragi's case if nothing else materialised I would back it otherwise we will be steam rolling into another no lynch


There was a cult in the original BNI I wouldn't be surprised if there is one here considering the blaseness in regards to actually voting for people that a lot of players in this game have actually shown.

Of course people can express opinions without voting, it just seems weird when you say someone should be lynched and then don't vote until it became apparent that no other 'easy' case would come up. You make it sound like you want a lynch for the sake of lynching, regardless of how strong the case is and whether the person is town-sided or not. Of all the people trying to get ragian lynched, your reasoning bothers me the most and I definitely think that there's a higher chance of you being mafia than ragian.
Vote Nagerous

Vote: Samlen

Hello and walkcome to grasping at straws. We are 1 day without a lynch and if we don't lynch today that'll be 2 Days. 2 DAYS. And without a cop too. What in the world do you think we could accomplish by prolonging this out even longer? Here's the thing, we need to have a lynch. We need to have information. Sure you make think Ragian is the most town person alive and if so defend him on those accounts don't try to stir up muck about others being scummy because they don't have those same conclusions. Here's the thing I don't know what Ragian is. I feel like the actions do implicate him but he himself isn't acting that scummy. There are a couple of things he did that do bother me but they aren't any big hints. However there is a chain that does point to him. It could be nothing, it could be something, we don't know. But don't try to tell me that we won't at least have some better idea of what is what.

As it stands you're trying to implicate someone for saying, "Welp something is better than nothing we might as well do this." which is against the interests of the town. Waiting to see if a better case comes up is a good idea for town members who aren't satisfied with the options that they do have. If we all ran head first into arguments we'd end up with a lot more bad lynches and a lot quicker days. Neither of those are good for town. They're great for scum though.

In summary, your argument is baseless, completely against the ideals of the town, reactionary, and in general just bad. I have a hard time believeing that anyone town is going to have this thought process. It looks like a nice easy thing to finger someone on, but the truth is it makes sense as a town member to do. I was thinking of doing the same myself. When the day is close to ending sometimes town members have to make hard choices. You aren't trying to make those choices, you're trying to pick on those that are. That's a scum move imo.

[Samlen]

It's against the ideals of town to not want to lynch a town member? I say it's passive and scummy to lynch someone simply for the sake of lynching, which is what nag and a lot of people on ragians wagon seem to be doing. As for defending ragian I already did that to the extent that I could. He claimed jailer and to have jailed me, a risky claim since it's easily proven/disproven. It makes no sense for scum to claim that when it's so easily disproven. Since I don't believe ragian is scum, am I supposed to stand by and watch him get lynched instead of trying to find someone that is scum? Tell me how THAT would help town.

[DirtyDishSoap]

The thing is, it's not mindlessly lynching Rag. There's an actual lead from a credible source thanks to the actions of Mitch, and Legion role revealing. We can hypothesize every scenario for Ragian to be inno, but it's absolutely getting us no where.

It's vote for someone who you think is scum vs vote for someone who actually has some legitimate lead to.

[Samlen]

The lead is based on the assumption that ragian targeted mitch last night for a kill, which I find unlikely. It's possible ragian is mafia and Maybe he DID target mitch for a nightkill and he could claim to have jailed me because he knew a mafia buddy roleblocked me. At this point it's a difference in whether we believe ragian or not, and I think it's more likely that he's telling the truth.

[DirtyDishSoap]

Yes, I get that. Given Ragians experience according to everyone else, it wouldn't make sense for him to target Mitch unless he previously knew (or guessed) he was cop, all assuming he is scum.

But what other evidence was given to us for us to use?

We have Ragians claim for jail, who say's he has jailed you. For whatever reasons unknown to everyone here, you didn't use your night action, therefor we can't prove if Ragian is telling the truth.
I do want to remind folks here though, we did not have a N1 kill but a D1 kill. Given the circumstances of how jail works, and there was no kill over the night, it puts an incredibly large target on yourself. You haven't acted scummy in my opinion, but due to the circumstances around N1, I can only assume you (or perhaps Legion if we're going to tickle the Godfather theory) are possibly scum.

We have to lynch someone today. Given the circumstances on the roles that have been revealed, Ragian targeting Samlen during the night and there was no death on N1, then at least we can assume that Samlen is possibly scum.

I'm not clearing Ragian by any means, Legion is still in my opinion that Ragian is our best shot here. But IF wrong, and Ragians claim is true, then we have to assume he did indeed jail Samlen and prevent a night action.

[DirtyDishSoap]

I butchered that last sentence, sorry.

I'm not clearing Ragian by an means. But if Legion is confirmed town as I suspect, then Ragian is our best shot. IF wrong, and Ragians claim is true, we can assume that he did indeed jail Samlen and prevent a night action kill.*

Sorry for double posting. Still sick.

[strike wolf]

Vote Count

DDS (2)-Ragian, Mets
Dakky
Nag (1)-Samlen
Mets
Rage (3)-Legion,DDS, Nag
Legion
Fircoal
Skoffin
Djfireside
Tim
Samlen (2)-Tim, Fircoal

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch

Deadline end of day Thursday

Rule Change

From now on, the player with the most votes (minimum of half the needed lynch) will be lynched at the end of day. if votes stay the same, Ragian will be lynched.

Also please remember the green. I counted them this time but it makes it a lot easier to see in color. Thank you.

[Metsfanmax]

I'm not clearing Ragian by an means. But if Legion is confirmed town as I suspect, then Ragian is our best shot. IF wrong, and Ragians claim is true, we can assume that he did indeed jail Samlen and prevent a night action kill.

...no. We can't assume that. If Ragian flips town jailer, that doesn't mean Samlen is scum. That's just one possible interpretation of the facts. It's not the only possible interpretation of the facts. Just like legionnare's claimed action on Ragian is not the only possible interpretation that explains the facts.

[Metsfanmax]

Rule Change

From now on, the player with the most votes (minimum of half the needed lynch) will be lynched at the end of day. if votes stay the same, Ragian will be lynched.

What happens if there is a tie?

[Metsfanmax]

I'm not clearing Ragian by an means. But if Legion is confirmed town as I suspect, then Ragian is our best shot. IF wrong, and Ragians claim is true, we can assume that he did indeed jail Samlen and prevent a night action kill.

...no. We can't assume that. If Ragian flips town jailer, that doesn't mean Samlen is scum. That's just one possible interpretation of the facts. It's not the only possible interpretation of the facts. Just like legionnare's claimed action on Ragian is not the only possible interpretation that explains the facts.

Actually why am I even listening to you at all? If legionnare is telling the truth, that means that Ragian's jailing didn't actually happen last night, so in your theory that pretty much clears Samlen from suspicion along these lines.

[DirtyDishSoap]

Yeah I'm not sure why you still continue dogging me. Guess it means you care.

I <3 you too buddy.

[strike wolf]

Rule Change

From now on, the player with the most votes (minimum of half the needed lynch) will be lynched at the end of day. if votes stay the same, Ragian will be lynched.

What happens if there is a tie?

24 hour run off between the ones tied.