Restaurant Mafia Order Restored and Order Up

[VioIet]

Huh, some stuff going on here.
Been away for the weekend haven't yet caught up with all the games, anyway:

Yes, I'm the manager, a 3rd party survivor.

Considering that I hammered flores and the number of night kills I think you guys can pretty well conclude that I'm not scum/SK.

I think he is telling the truth. I believe Haggis claim. He is definitely not the SK, and aage pretty much confirmed that he is third party.

Although it does seem somewhat odd that the manager wouldn't be town. I would even think the manager would be a town vig, pgo, or investigator. I suppose that was the mod's choice though, making the manager third party.

[safariguy5]

Manager may not care about the restaurant, he just wants a good job with steady pay? Third Party Survivor is definitely less threatening than SK.

[safariguy5]

Manager may not care about the restaurant, he just wants a good job with steady pay? Third Party Survivor is definitely less threatening than SK.

unvote

Ebwop

[ga7]

Manager as survivor does make sense, seeing the way Haggis behaved so far I think I'll buy it. Lyncher is doubtful with this role, I suppose he could be SK (ability to fire anyone) but it doesn't make much sense with his gameplay.
Time to Unvote Vote Victor, most likely to have missed actions, scummiest, lousiest defense a few pages back, and most expandable as opposed to people harder to read/needing investigating.

[ga7]

Some thoughts while I'm at it:
I don't find it very useful to investigate Mr S, as if he's goon Flores calling for his investigation doesn't make much sense, and he played in a good GF way so far. Not my prime candidate for it either way.
Xuereb after his defense I trust a bit more to be a noob townie who's unsure what to do... Backburner sauce à monter at best.
Victor I find the most interesting as in that case there are some people that really tried to go for other options. He's the option that could open up the most links.
Violet I find somewhat scummy, a bit less now that she's active, but I could completely picture her as scum with Vic for instance.
Spiesr I'm getting weird vibes from, first days I was convinced he was town, now not so much especially after that very partial case on Chu. Good candidate for investigation IMO.
Chu has acted townish but also seemed very worried about suspicion on him. Potential investigation too, either way both him and Spiesr wouldn't be scum together obviously.
A question for Haggis: why did you feel the need to make that case on Victor?

[Haggis_McMutton]

A question for Haggis: why did you feel the need to make that case on Victor?

The deadline was getting close, we had no clear leads, a no lynch means an extra kill for scum which is bad for me.

Furthermore, generally I don't think that starting a case that leads to a lynch makes you more likely to be targeted by scum.
If your case actually uncovers scum, they'll be worried that you may be protected, if it doesn't there's a chance you'll get accused the next day of pushing for a townie's lynch.

Basically, since the point is to blend in, I don't see why I wouldn't play a survivor like I normally play town(maybe with the aggression turned down just a little bit).

[/]

Vote count

Victor: Haggis and GA have charged your tab 2 times
fir: spiesr and vio have charged your tab 2 times

you may change up to 7 meals before I send the loan sharks

[Mr. Squirrel]

Yes, I'm the manager, a 3rd party survivor.

Really? Am I the only one who doesn't like this claim?! This game was advertised as non-vanilla and this is no better than a vanilla townie. I highly doubt / would make this a role. vote haggis for lying.

Also, sorry if I've been quiet for a while. School has been brutal lately and my work schedule has gotten worse.

[VioIet]

I am starting to suspect more and more that ga7 may actually be mafia. I know it doesn't appear to make any sense. If he were mafia, why in the world would he be so active in getting flores lynched. Perhaps the mafia can communicate during the day as well as night. Or at night they communicated a plan, and flores volunteered to sacrifice herself.
Risky but plausible.

Ga7 for the record has acted in the town's best interest. However, in his post analysis, he seems to think all the players that are town are scum, and vice versa.

I strongly think that an investigation on spiesr would be a wasted investigation, as I believe aage already cleared him a few days ago. Why would ga7 even suggest that?
Perhaps spiesr made a case on Fir because he was not acting in the town's best interest.

I do agree with ga7 that Fir would be a good investigation, but I disagree that Mr. Squirrel wouldn't be a good investigation.

Really? Am I the only one who doesn't like this claim?! This game was advertised as non-vanilla and this is no better than a vanilla townie. I highly doubt / would make this a role.

Yes, I think you are the only one who doesn't like the claim. I do actually think that you make a valid point. However non-vanilla, just means no vanilla townies. It doesn't mean that you necessarily need to have some type of action, such as killing, investigating, blocking.
Third party survivor is a very valid non-vanilla role.

For example, the Briarsburg Mafia was non-vanilla, and I had no special abilities. And of course you know- you were the mod and made my role.

Also I suspect that you may not have any special abilities this game. Perhaps that is the very reason why you wanted to cast doubt on Haggis' claim.

[Mr. Squirrel]

For example, the Briarsburg Mafia was non-vanilla, and I had no special abilities. And of course you know- you were the mod and made my role.

But you did have abilities. You had a partner and you were bulletproof (or unlynchable I forget which one you were). You didn't have a night action, but you had assets to help you still. 3rd party survivor is just a vanilla townie that isn't town. I personally can't see / making it a role in this game.

Also I suspect that you may not have any special abilities this game. Perhaps that is the very reason why you wanted to cast doubt on Haggis' claim.

If I had no abilities, wouldn't I then believe haggis' claim? If I had no abilities then later when I roleclaimed, I would be shooting myself in the foot. This makes no sense. Now, my role may not be great, but its at least a role rather than just a 3rd party survivor.

[ga7]

Squirrel, survivor has never been considered vanilla. Have you never noticed NV games have roles like "mafia goon" "survivor" or even for the most fucked up mods "suicidal townie" *side glance at chu*? These roles are NOT considered vanilla. They never were. So while I applaud the effort to make a setup more filled with actual powers instead of these joke ones you can't exactly base your role on this. There could be something more to Haggis' role but unless he had a set plan to act survivor all the way I don't think he could have acted so true to his claim. Frankly as long as he's not SK or cult which are pretty damn unlikely I don't really care. So get lynching Victor already folks, it's gonna make some people look worst than a gratin made with indus cheddar

Violet, I don't know if you ever realize this but your whole argument is OMGUS. You're starting to suspect me more purely because I'm suspecting you and you've been defending people that are the most likely scum to me.
I seriously wonder whether you're trying to manipulate the town or just spread misinformation gratuitously, but I'll make a head count of the errors in your post:
-Sacrificing a scumbuddy that pretty much only me believed to be scum and that wasn't the GF. Sense much?
-Me being scum implies I would be the GF since I was already investigated and cleared, in which case I had 0 reasons to try to make town believe me without needing to investigate me considering I could be cleared by an investigation to start with.
-Spiesr was never investigated, Aage only investigated Saf me & Haggis
-You say you're more suspicious of Fir but I didn't see either you or Spiesr follow up on the arguments against him that were downright disproven, which makes me feel this was a smokescreen case.
-I agree it's downright weird for Mr S to disbelieve a survivor in a NV but what do you base your suspicions about him having no abilities on? I'd like to know if it's your intuition because that could be potentially misleading.

[Fircoal]

or even for the most fucked up mods "suicidal townie" *side glance at chu*?

I SWEAR THERE'S A GOOD REASON FOR THAT!!!

[VioIet]

Well, I am certainly still learning the ropes and ways to better present my cases. But I certainly don't think my argument was OMGUS, as I have a solid basis for my claims.

But my bad- I forgot that aage cleared you. I don't know how I forgot this, as it only happened a few pages ago. I don't think this was from skimming- i haven't skimmed- but I had a period of inactivity, so I may have forgotten some things. Although I think I spoke of you being cleared a few pages back- so that was certainly odd of me.

I think because you were accusing people that I strongly feel to be town, it thoroughly confused me.

I am certainly not trying to be manipulative to the town- I am trying to steer the town on the right direction, as I see most of them are beginning to travel down the wrong road.

Okay i can retract the case about flores being a setup.

I don't believe that aage is the only investigator in the game. It is non-vanilla after all. I know there is some other investigator out there who possesses a certain type of food. I don't know who he is, but I know that he is pro-town and that he is out there, and that spiesr has been most likely cleared by him.

I didn't have any reason to suspect Fir before today- which is why I was silent during those arguments.

And if Mr.Squirrel has some special abilities, he is certainly not using them in the best interest of the town. I don't think he is a killer. So then if he is pro-town, wouldn't he be either an investigator, blocker or doctor? He has given us no results- he has only tried to lynch two townies. If he had one of these pro-town roles, especially investigator, I think instead of trying to get them lynched, he would have waited to either investigate them himself, or for the results of an investigation, before pursuing them so aggressively.
Mr. Squirrel hasn't really been inactive either to my knowledge, so that is not a likely excuse.

[Mr. Squirrel]

And if Mr.Squirrel has some special abilities, he is certainly not using them in the best interest of the town. I don't think he is a killer. So then if he is pro-town, wouldn't he be either an investigator, blocker or doctor? He has given us no results- he has only tried to lynch two townies. If he had one of these pro-town roles, especially investigator, I think instead of trying to get them lynched, he would have waited to either investigate them himself, or for the results of an investigation, before pursuing them so aggressively.
Mr. Squirrel hasn't really been inactive either to my knowledge, so that is not a likely excuse.

Violet, before you start condemning me with your baseless accusations, just tell me if you got a gift night 1 or not.

Squirrel, survivor has never been considered vanilla. Have you never noticed NV games have roles like "mafia goon" "survivor" or even for the most fucked up mods "suicidal townie" *side glance at chu*? These roles are NOT considered vanilla. They never were. So while I applaud the effort to make a setup more filled with actual powers instead of these joke ones you can't exactly base your role on this. There could be something more to Haggis' role but unless he had a set plan to act survivor all the way I don't think he could have acted so true to his claim. Frankly as long as he's not SK or cult which are pretty damn unlikely I don't really care.

Hmmm... I guess I'm wrong then. unvote I always considered a survivor on par with vanilla, if he is given no other powers. Mafia goons get to communicate at night, which is their power so that was always my justification for that. Whatever. My bad.

[safariguy5]

We're not getting anywhere with this discussion about the meaning of NV. Back to the actual case. With Victor clearly not here and contributing, let's get rid of the dead weight.

unvote vote Victor

[ga7]

I still have no idea if you're extrapolating in a stark raving mad way or if you actually base these wild conclusions on something Vio, so I'll just let it be. My only remark is that there are more town roles besides cop roleblocker and doc, thanks imagination. One thing is sure, there is no argument for not voting Victor right now.

[spiesr]

I don't believe that aage is the only investigator in the game. It is non-vanilla after all. I know there is some other investigator out there who possesses a certain type of food. I don't know who he is, but I know that he is pro-town and that he is out there, and that spiesr has been most likely cleared by him.

Does this game contain more than one role the has sort sort of investigative related powers? Maybe, I could see that being the case. Has this hypothetical role used its power to investigate me? Could be the case. Have I been "cleared" by this possible person? Um, only if your definition of cleared is that he looked at me and didn't find any evidence that I was scum and therefor wisely said nothing on the matter anywhere. If you go by the more normal definition that someone has offered proof that I am town, then no the only ones "cleared" are ga7 and safariguy. Also you say that you know there is an investigator that posses a certain type of food. This causes me great confusion as to what this means, how you know it, and why you mentioned it the way you did.

And if Mr.Squirrel has some special abilities, he is certainly not using them in the best interest of the town.

I would say that making such a definative statement would require a lot more information than the average player would actually know at this point in the game.

I don't think he is a killer. So then if he is pro-town, wouldn't he be either an investigator, blocker or doctor?

While there are quite a few abilities that could be lumped into those three categories, there are many many more. A few relatively basic ones that quickly come to mind: Commuter, Bus-driver, Mayor, Politician.

He has given us no results- he has only tried to lynch two townies.

While participating in the lynch of a player who was town aligned can be evidence towards someone being scum, the way you use it here seems to be somewhat harsh and not in line with best logic.

If he had one of these pro-town roles, especially investigator, I think instead of trying to get them lynched, he would have waited to either investigate them himself, or for the results of an investigation, before pursuing them so aggressively.

So you are telling me that players shouldn't try to lynch people if they don't have an investigation to back up their case?

Squirrel, survivor has never been considered vanilla. Have you never noticed NV games have roles like "mafia goon" "survivor" or even for the most fucked up mods "suicidal townie" *side glance at chu*? These roles are NOT considered vanilla. They never were. So while I applaud the effort to make a setup more filled with actual powers instead of these joke ones you can't exactly base your role on this. There could be something more to Haggis' role but unless he had a set plan to act survivor all the way I don't think he could have acted so true to his claim. Frankly as long as he's not SK or cult which are pretty damn unlikely I don't really care.

As for Haggis's Survivor claim, there is something that bugs me about it. In the situation that he was in, survivor was the most obvious and easiest role-claim that he could make. Heck, at least half the people were probably expecting him to claim that. It seems that whatever his third party role was, he could easily get away with just claiming survivor. Judging from what I have seen thus far roles in this game aren't quite that simple. He have this feeling that either he is outright lying about being just a survivor, or that his role is more complex than that, although he may not necessarily know all the details in that case.

[VioIet]

Squirrel, if you know what you seem to know, then wouldn't you be giving a bit more credence to my arguments?

And if I now know what I think i know, then I should lay off you a bit. Perhaps I got you all wrong.

I feel a bit honored now.

And spiesr just reminded me, i forgot that there could be a busdriver in this game. Perhaps he messed with aage's results.

So you are telling me that players shouldn't try to lynch people if they don't have an investigation to back up their case?

That would certainly be ideal, but its not always practical. And sometimes it is fun to just guess. But what I was trying to say, is I think that someone with an investigative role would naturally play more cautiously than someone without.

I can think of something negative about a potential Victor lynch. We most likely won't get a claim.

[DrewDude]

We're not getting anywhere with this discussion about the meaning of NV. Back to the actual case. With Victor clearly not here and contributing, let's get rid of the dead weight.

unvote vote Victor

Nobody is really helping so what makes you have less weight than him?

[safariguy5]

We're not getting anywhere with this discussion about the meaning of NV. Back to the actual case. With Victor clearly not here and contributing, let's get rid of the dead weight.

unvote vote Victor

Nobody is really helping so what makes you have less weight than him?

I'm confirmed town by aage? If anything, I should have more weight than him.

[spiesr]

We're not getting anywhere with this discussion about the meaning of NV. Back to the actual case. With Victor clearly not here and contributing, let's get rid of the dead weight.

Nobody is really helping so what makes you have less weight than him?

I'm confirmed town by aage? If anything, I should have more weight than him.

Your saying that you have more dead weight and are therefor more useless than him?

[aage]

We're not getting anywhere with this discussion about the meaning of NV. Back to the actual case. With Victor clearly not here and contributing, let's get rid of the dead weight.

Nobody is really helping so what makes you have less weight than him?

I'm confirmed town by aage? If anything, I should have more weight than him.

Your saying that you have more dead weight and are therefor more useless than him?

Filthy word twister

[safariguy5]

I think my opinion has more weight, but apparently nobody else thinks so. So I'll just let frenchie boss everyone around some more.

[VioIet]

You are not alone saf. Even spiesr gave my argument no weight that I strongly suspected him to be town.

Has it been confirmed that Drew Dude is town? I remember the bandwagon on him, that was stopped- as I believe peopled decided that a double voter couldn't be mafia.

I didn't think he was scummy early in the game, but the last few comments really have me wondering.

FOS Drew

[ga7]

I think my opinion has more weight, but apparently nobody else thinks so. So I'll just let frenchie boss everyone around some more.

Well I certainly would love to but despite past experience I seem to not be listened. I really think Victor is protected by evil lurking forces right now. The kind that put ketchup on Tournedos Rossini.