Streaker's F11 Game Over (4/9) MAFIA WIN (archive plz)

[bosaardbeitje]

Oh common, we all knew he claimed cop day 1, he only put it in those exact words on day 2.

Sorry Boss, I checked just to make certain I wasn't mistaken, but I just quoted the only two posts I could find all the way through early day 2 where claims of PR were made from him, even indirectly.

It's actually something a smart scum might do and then if they need to back out of it they can say they never actually claimed it all along and they would be telling the truth.

Okay, when I am wrong I am wrong. But we all assumed that he was claiming the cop role on day 1, right? That was the whole basis of our suspicion. If the majority wants to vote Tim off, than I am with the majority. I am all for democracy and if we win, we all win, if we loose, we all loose.

Page 2

I'm glad the cops are sane.

seems odd how do you KNOW cop is sane?? vote epi for assumeing things already bad bad epi

Page 5

1) You began the speculation on sane insane cop...also didnt seem to care about the roles or read the initial posts.

2) Then you soft claimed a role.....

4) Then you re soft claim.

Page 6

nope not skum role blocker and not skum at all but lets jsut say i have the game set up narrowed down to only 2 possable sset ups

Page 7

im jsut gonan say ur read on me is incorrect, like i aid beor i got the game down to 2 possable set ups. if i last to d2 i will be able to shed some light hopeully but killing me would be really bad

Page 7

Tim, you making yourself a target for a nightkill does absolutely not make sense to me at all. I deliberately ignored the previous post in which you said something similar about narrowing it down to 2 set-ups and now you find it necessary to throw it out here again? Why do you find it necessary to claim a PR twice? Are you asking to get killed?

Page 7

Yeah he went from claiming a soft VT to a hard claim on a PR.....

Page 8

Ok, here comes my readthrough here...
Tim: Heavily leaning scum for trying to confuse the game early on with the discussion about the sanities of the potential power roles, and then later soft-claiming VT and denying it, repeatedly, and THEN later trying to hint that he does have a PR after all.

But since Mitch figured everything out already, it doesn't matter anymore. Our work is done! Also, having to quote many remarks, sucks!

[rizky_biznezz]

Maybe I need to vote Mitch even when he decides to stop by it makes no sense lol

[TimWoodbury]

i dont think a doc saved e as mafia didnt even choose to kill me had i been saved there woulda been no night kill

[bosaardbeitje]

Okay here we go. I tried to get rid of all unnecessary information and I advise you to read Epi's posts yourselves as well. Specifically look at the nice and neutral tone and the compliments he's giving everyone for cases, hard work and pushes. Moreover in almost every post he says that he doesn't have suspects yet and that he's not sure yet and that he needs to do more reading. And this is a Veteran...It's everything Rizky already said, and more:

Page 2

I'm glad the cops are sane.

At first I thought this was just a remark to get the game going.

Page 3

My one liner was a joke about the setups Streaker posted. I didn't expect that comment to generate discussion lol.

But then there is this... A veteran most certainly should know that everything you say in here is being looked at in great detail and will generate discussion. So, I hindsight I see this as fishing for a PR.

Page 6

However, I couldn't help but notice that skw hopped right on board your case though without much comment.

Voting Subtle while there is no other vote on Subtle and no general suspicion against Subtle.

Page 10

You just read through the entire game and that's all you have to say? No reads, no comments, not even an opinion on Tim, who's been the lightning rod this game?

Vote Razorvich

---

I didn't read boss's questioning/threat to Tim as that she's willing to lynch him if he doesn't come back with a good result (ie I didn't find her push scummy). I took that as she's suspicious of him so she wants him to prove himself in some way. If Tim's not the cop, he's probably getting investigated tonight. If he is the cop, then he's probably getting RB'd if the mafia have a roleblocker. Heck, he's probably getting roleblocked if he's town and the mafia have a roleblocker period.

---

For some reason, Aage is still rubbing me the wrong way, but I need to re-read to see if I can put my finger on it. It's kind of a process of elimination thing (I find many other players townie, but not sure on him) but I also feel like he's playing puppet master here. It's probably because he's got the knowledge, but he's faced very little pressure this game except for one rando comment from mitch that didn't make any sense.

Now this is probably the most prominent one. First voting Razor while there is no other vote on Razor and no general suspicion against Razor. And then that second part... Is he trying to tell his partner to block Tim, if possible??? Pointing us to Aage, without any concrete reasons.

Page 13

You might as well say that you're the cop and got an innocent result on boss.

Again fishing.

Page 13

Tim, what exactly was your result? As in, how was it worded--this might make a difference, I'll explain after you answer.

Again fishing and never came back to it.

Page 14

Okay, I am officially going nuts in here... I need a person smarter than me... Should we ask for a counterclaim on the cop role, in case Tim is scum and there is a real cop?

Are you counterclaming?

Again fishing.

[TimWoodbury]

unvote vote epi hes experianced enough to come up with the frame job and id rather get rid o being the partnerf the experianced skum then a shitluck guess on skw

[bosaardbeitje]

. And then that second part... Is he trying to tell his partner to block Tim, if possible???

The other way around of course. Telling that he can block Tim. Although I don't understand why that hasn't happened then...

[madmitch]

at least I got you talking about looking at someone else besides Tim being scum even if its me but I agree with Bos epic is looking pretty scummy so VOTE EPIC

[bosaardbeitje]

Don't put him under the hammer. I don't want anyone to make the mistake I made yesterday!

[Epitaph1]

Where to begin. . .

Re: Tim. Tim has made pretty much every blunder you could make as a townie, if he's townie. Confusing posts, not making cases, quick hammer, soft claiming his role without pressure on D1 and then hard claiming on D2 right away. As we've discussed at length on D2, his existence today doesn't seem to make much sense when he made it pretty clear that he was a PR on D1. I'll spare everyone the quotes since you guys have already pointed out not only his soft claiming but that people recognized it on D1. I asked about his result to make sure he didn't get roleblocked and according to him it was clear that he got a town result on boss.

So, either Tim is the cop and has been set up or he's scum. We already know why he could be scum. If he's town, it's only because the mafia thought they could frame him today. Sorry if this is redundant, but I want to be perfectly clear. Tons of people suspected Tim going into N1, but we let him slide because he had hinted at a PR.

skw argued with him and then voted him
mitch voted for him
ptolwe put together the most extensive case of the day against him
aage knew he was scummy but didn't want to vote because of the PR claim

Since most people sort of trust me, and most people are suspicious of Tim, I thought I should put the pressure on. He shouldn't think he is save now. I hoped he would go into panic mode, slip up or overly defend himself. He did not, but you are doing a good job for him. Thank you. Very informative.

Tim - may have let us know that there is something to come in the next few days... if you survive the night Tim.. I will expect some substance, or you shoot to No 1

I could go on, but you get the point. Basically, every person in the game either said that Tim was one of their top suspects or was acting very scummy. The mafia had to look at this and decide: do we kill the PR and take out the scummiest person in the game? Remember, the mafia go into the night knowing if there are 1 or 2 town PRs based on their assignments and Tim's claim. If they have a roleblocker, then they know there are two PRs. If 2 goons, then they know that Tim is the only PR.

To be clear, no one has counterclaimed cop. When Boss started talking like this:

Okay, I am officially going nuts in here... I need a person smarter than me... Should we ask for a counterclaim on the cop role, in case Tim is scum and there is a real cop?

I know the cop will die when counterclaiming (if there is and if we don't have a doctor) but then we also know that you were lying and we can lynch you with confidence... The real cop may also have extra information if he was able to do an investigation without being blocked. So, I am asking everyone, should we ask for a counterclaim?

I took that to mean that she was the cop and that's why I asked her straight up. To me, she was hinting at it as strong as Tim hinted at having a PR on D1. She denies it and skw suggested that the cop not counterclaim. I don't argue that, but at this point Tim is either the cop or there is no cop. A cop would be the only person who would know 100% that Tim is lying. I would expect a cop to be like a pit bull on Tim and relentlessly pursuing his lynch.

So that leaves us in the scenario that risky described: If we don't lynch Tim today and he's alive tomorrow, do we still think he's town? If we get a mislynch today and there is a NK, then we're at 3-2, which is lynch or lose (lylo). Even if he comes back with a guilty result on someone, it call comes down to Tim's credibility.

So, do I think Tim is town? idk. I'm very on the fence about it. Everything points to him being scum except the argument about him being alive is WIFOM. I keep downplaying all of his mistakes because he's still new. And like ptolwe said, don't look to other games for how to solve this one.

However, I do see value in lynching him from the standpoint that either a) he's scum and woohoo and b) if he's town, then Boss is 100% cleared. I suppose the problem is that she might get Nk'd if there isn't a doctor, and once again, the mafia will know whether or not there is a doctor.

Ok, I have to wrap this up. More could be said, but I gotta run.

Also, making a case against me for voting Razor is ridiculous. I voted Razor because he read through the entire game and didn't give us a single opinion! Don't act like I was looking for an easy mislynch. Yeah, now we know that he was town--but when he comes in, reads everything as a whole and just shrugs, that rubbed me as either someone who didn't want to give an opinion or wasn't trying.

[rizky_biznezz]

Why do u all have to make such sense.. Haven't got time to go thru it all now.. gonna be pretty full on for the next day and a half so may not be able to post much but u guys have left me lots to think about.. I will be back as soon as I can

[subtleknifewield]

Oh wow, this game exploded in an entirely new, stunning direction while I was out. Props to Boss for making a solid case here that nearly has me convinced on a guy that has since convinced me of his towniness. My original case on Epi was based on me mis-remembering how thoroughly I had explained my initial vote on Tim the first day, and he proved me wrong and thus eased my suspicions.

But...wow, maybe I was onto something after all? I mean, making a case on him based on voting for Razor is as he said, ridiculous, but that's just one of several points, some which have considerably more merit.

And while he seems to agree with me that lynching Tim is a good idea and I still think Ti is scum...could be scum trying to throw off suspicion by bussing their partner (throwing their partner under the bus).

However...I am hesitant to switch votes so readily this time, as last time I jumped wagons we hung a townie, and I am more sure on Tim than I am on anyone else.

[subtleknifewield]

Fp'd by rizky

Lol, once again, welcome to Mafia. XD

[bosaardbeitje]

I am waiting for a reaction from Ptlowe

However, I do see value in lynching him from the standpoint that either a) he's scum and woohoo and b) if he's town, then Boss is 100% cleared. I suppose the problem is that she might get Nk'd if there isn't a doctor, and once again, the mafia will know whether or not there is a doctor.

I think we can savely assume that I am dead tomorrow anyway. I've tried to work out the worst case scenarios for Town. Please point out any possible mistakes in my reasoning. Since these are worst case scenarios, I assumed there is no Doctor in the house:

Mafia has a Role Blocker:
Tim flips town - I die.

Epi flips town / Tim is scum - I die and Tim is going to say that his investigation got blocked or, more likely, clear his partner. This is a gamble, because scum doesn't know whether there is real cop in the game.

Epi flips town / Tim is town - Tim dies and I am cleared or more likely I die, Tim gets blocked.

Mafia has no Role Blocker:
Tim flips town - I die.

Epi flips town / Tim is scum - I die and Tim is going to give a fake read or, more likely, clear his partner. This is a gamble, because scum doesn't know whether there is real cop in the game.

Epi flips town / Tim is town - Tim dies and I am cleared or I die and Tim gets to do another investigation.

Since I will not make it another day, I am still going with the majority and I will even offer to be the hammer.

[ptlowe]

Just landed jfk. Will post tonight after a long fin nap...too much new shit not to take my time in reviewing

[ptlowe]

Soooo....

I like that your pressuring people Bosa....but I think your barking up the wrong tree at Epi. Take a look at his response to you. That makes very good sense as far as fact finding from my perspective. Hes screaming town to me. I find Tim and Mitch bandwagon votes as soon as you made a case an issue. They put him on L-2 real quick. If one more person votes there could be another quick hammer. I think your a little paranoid on dieing today or tomorrow. Who knows though.

Still dont think rizky is adding much to the convo. But we can go with that being because hes new for a bit longer.

[bosaardbeitje]

Well, you certainly took your time to come up with that nonsense. I don't care about me dieing, as long as Town learns something from the lynch and my death. Nothing to say about the content of the case that Rizky and I presented?

[Streaker]

Voute count:

Subtleknifewield (0): Timwoodbury
Timwoodbury (1): Subtleknifewield
Epitaph (2): Timwoodbury, madmitch

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch. Deadline 15 October 03.00 CC time. Currently Epitaph is at L-2.
I am liking the activity very much, everyone. Keep it up.

[ptlowe]

Well, you certainly took your time to come up with that nonsense. I don't care about me dieing, as long as Town learns something from the lynch and my death. Nothing to say about the content of the case that Rizky and I presented?

yeah well was on a red eye saturday and slept all day sunday almost....

[ptlowe]

Well, you certainly took your time to come up with that nonsense. I don't care about me dieing, as long as Town learns something from the lynch and my death. Nothing to say about the content of the case that Rizky and I presented?

Not a whole lot of content o ln epi. I disagree with your conclusion

[madmitch]

I think I made a snap judgement and read the posts wrong so first of all UNVOTE The question I have has Tim played enough to do a great bluff,maybe in this game there is no cop ,doc, or role blocker. Maybe Tim hinting that he had a power role allowed him to live through the day and him saying he checked Bos and she was all right was bull. That leaves the possibility that BOS is mafia along with Tim or she is vanilla like Tim said, so the only logical thing to do is vote her out and if she is town then Tim is cop and if she is scum then Tim lied and is scum also. so what does every one else think

[Epitaph1]

The problem with lynching Boss is that if she flips town, it doesn't prove Tim one way or another. If he's cop, then he got a town result on her. If he's scum, he could have just picked a random townie to clear instead of clearing his scumbuddy. If she flips scum, then we definitely have TIm.

---

As I was driving to work this morning, I thought to myself "what would I have done if I was mafia someone soft hinted PR on D1 in our game?" To me, there is no way I would have let Tim live, even if he was suspected by everyone. A PR in a game this size is a major boon for the town, so it seems like an almost unfathomable risk to let him live. But for him to come out and claim cop right away would be asking for a counterclaim, which would not play out well in mafia's favor. It would have for sure been a 1 for 1 trade in a game when they only have 2 players.

Unless we're in the 4th scenario, which is 1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 7 Townies. He could have tried to draw out the cop, knowing that his partner was the roleblocker. They could have figured that Tim was going to die because he was getting so much heat but at least expose the cop. The roleblocker would be able to block the cop each night and then NK someone else.

---

The more I think about it, the more I think we should lynch Tim. So much of our discussion hinges on him and no one really seems to trust him. Even if he is the cop, at this point I don't think we can trust his results. So, if he's alive tomorrow, do we rely on his results or question the heck out of them? The mafia will probably keep him alive since they know he could get lynched.

[bosaardbeitje]

Yeah Mitch, except... no. If that would help, I would have offered already. Epi's first post didn't convince me at all but the last post definitely makes more sense to me. I am reconsidering and thinking it through yet again...

So without actually voting, I would like to know where everyone stands right now. I am still leaning Epi.

[Epitaph1]

I'll break down your case point by point if I have to. But I'm not spending a lot of time doing so if you're the only one who wants to lynch me today.

Boss, if you were scum, would you have killed Tim last night?

[bosaardbeitje]

Yes, I probably would have taken the easiest path. If possible I would have blocked him so he had to go back to Town without a result, or else I would have killed him.

But since I already threatened him and since Razor made a similar remark about Tim jumping to nr 1 the next day... I can imagine that the more experienced players in here would use that to their advantage... and take the more complicated route to throw sand in our eyes...

So what I have to decide right now is whether scum would take the easy path or the convoluted path and I really don't know.

Sigh...

[bosaardbeitje]

EBWOP And what makes it extra difficult for me is his accurate report on me. (Why Tim, why?)