The Wire Mafia Day 6 [4/13]

[lynx_]

I think Ghostly's claim is fake. He also made a typo on "Leander". Not that it means a lot, but we also saw this with Betiko.

I've googled for the other characters, and they seem to be much more important than his.

Agreed: I think flavour-wise, Ghostly has the weakest claim. However, it may be the case that scum have safe-claims anyway, as most claimed roles appear to be relatively important characters in the series.

Lynx, I dont care if you know you're town, you dont take yourself out of the pool of scum and you dont put yourself in it. You probably shouldnt even bother making your own official list because if there are discrepancies with other players, they will call you out on it.

As I said, sorry but I have always done it this way. My posts tend to be relatively stream-of-consciousness and to be honest, including iterations in which I am scum is more trouble than it's worth. Everyone else just needs to swap their names with mine.

lynx, you pick the standard role out of the bunch, ghostly over the informer? Informer would be the obvious odd one out if you werent looking with a biased perspective. Informer is very unlikely to be counterclaimed whilst tracker and watcher are quite likely.

I have yet to see a false-claim quite that inventive. In my experience scum normally stick to more more simple roles to claim. There is also the fact that the watcher and informer roles seem to link up quite nicely. Do you think it is likely that all three roles are in the game?

Alongside that, you were the last person to claim and it took you almost 24 hours to post, making it impossible for you to be counterclaimed if you had to make up a fake claim. He was the second person to claim, and while he was withholding of his night actions, he was doing it to catch people on their bluffs

Excuse me for taking a long weekend! But anyway, you guys did the mass-claim wrong. It's best if whoever claims first picks the next to claim (preferably whoever they find scummiest), that way nobody can moan about the order afterwards. And how do you know why he is withholding his night actions?

Also, if you dont want me to be cleared, then go on and believe my role, because if you requests he uses his role on someone else and turn around and think Im scum, then you threw away your chance for a cleared townie because of a suspicion.

With everyone having claimed, skillfu can now test anybody's claim to determine their alignment. I agree with spiesr that it is suspicious how you insist he use it on you.

Also, skillfu: you should ask the mod if your power is targeting or non-targeting. Remember that if he's telling the truth, new guy kills anybody targeting him.

Oh, and as for new guy's vote: I haven't watched the program, nor can I be bothered to look it up as my lunch break is nearly over. But why would I tell the truth about my role if I was scum!Carver? I'd like to think I'm a little more inventive than that, particularly as I was last to claim.

Will continue to withhold a vote until I hear back from ghostly.

[new guy1]

Hey lynx_, I just had a night of drinking and no sleep and I can already see holes. I already told spiesr that I insisted because it was recommended by someone. What is the problem with showing support for the idea? I already posted my reasoning, skimmer. You would tell the truth about your role because you "cant be bothered nor have you" been bothered to look it up. Fake claims are not always researched and so you may have just been lazy or too busy to come up with a fake claim. I know that ghost is withholding his actions because he clearly stated he was withholding his night 4 action till further notice. Did you miss that one too? Flavor wise, you have the weakest claim, because I did my research and you were a spy. You have not been bothered to research the series, and so you can not rightfully claim that ghostly's claim is the weakest. You are all over the place lynx_. Please tell me I am not the only one who sees this?

Out of all your responses, the only ones you got right were the one talking about ruling yourself out of the scum pool and making a statement on how mass claims go, which quite honestly doesnt make a difference to me. My vote stands.

[lynx_]

I already told spiesr that I insisted because it was recommended by someone. What is the problem with showing support for the idea? I already posted my reasoning, skimmer.

Townies lead, while scum follow.

You would tell the truth about your role because you "cant be bothered nor have you" been bothered to look it up. Fake claims are not always researched and so you may have just been lazy or too busy to come up with a fake claim... You have not been bothered to research the series, and so you can not rightfully claim that ghostly's claim is the weakest.

The only flavour research I have done is this list, which has the series and number of episodes each character appears in. I was referring to that when talking about ghostly's character.

As I am now finished work, the list is arranged here for your convenience:

show

Although as you can no doubt see, the majority of characters claimed are fairly major.

Anyway, more later.

[spiesr]

I already told spiesr that I insisted because it was recommended by someone. What is the problem with showing support for the idea?

Any townie would prefer that an investigation be used to find a scum than to clear them in a situation like this.

[StubbsKVM]

To be honest, Dj bothers me too. Why didn't he use his power on Jonty night 2, keeps going through my head.

Dj-ghostly scumteam is most likely for me atm.

[Djfireside]

To be honest, Dj bothers me too. Why didn't he use his power on Jonty night 2, keeps going through my head.

Dj-ghostly scumteam is most likely for me atm.

Stubbs, I repeated my action since I knew there was a Roleblock and the response I received seemed odd so I did my actions again. Once I received it twice I moved on. I tend to do that whenever I dont like the response I get and can come in handy.

I dont see how you can see ghostly as a scum buddy of mine as even when I was attempting to give him a chance to come clean since I knew the outcome and still avoided claiming for whatever reason. If we were scum buddies I would have beaten him senseless by now.

For those talking about how their claims are at the top of some list, take William Rawls 46 episodes and he was a fake claim that mixed in and has higher episodes than most of your list so be careful on straight numbers

Based on my findings I can prove that Ghostly and Spiesr have the roles they say and I am trying to take it that since noone else can match them its valid to them

You question my NA but I question yours Stubbs. I re-read the night 2 scene and it doesnt state there was a watcher in the scene I take it that the car across the street was the one who kill him. Plus the last two nights giving you nothing leaves much to be desired.


On Night 1, I watched Lynx: No result
On Night 2, I watched Jonty: Safariguy(so I knew he was busdriver then)
On Night 3, I watched Safariguy: No Result
On Night 4, I watched Jonty: No Result

At this point I am trying to put charecters to their roles to see if they fit. Thus far Im having a issue with Carver

[StubbsKVM]

But Why kirk?
And Why not Jonty after the claim.?

I don't like my results any more than you do.
I was pretty sure he night 2 scène mentioned a watcher.
I'm phoneposting so hard to go through the topic this way.

[new guy1]

I already told spiesr that I insisted because it was recommended by someone. What is the problem with showing support for the idea? I already posted my reasoning, skimmer.

Townies lead, while scum follow.

You would tell the truth about your role because you "cant be bothered nor have you" been bothered to look it up. Fake claims are not always researched and so you may have just been lazy or too busy to come up with a fake claim... You have not been bothered to research the series, and so you can not rightfully claim that ghostly's claim is the weakest.

The only flavour research I have done is this list, which has the series and number of episodes each character appears in. I was referring to that when talking about ghostly's character.

As I am now finished work, the list is arranged here for your convenience:

show

Although as you can no doubt see, the majority of characters claimed are fairly major.

Anyway, more later.

Not true that town always leads. Ever heard of a mafia sheeping players? One of the best tactics for mafia is to manipulate the town and choose their moves for them purely by giving the most input and saying things with a bias. I dont care how many episodes each character was in, because it doesnt make a difference. It has nothing to do with the game. Thank you for further proving my point that you have done no research, and so you cannot say that ghostly's claim makes the least sense. You have further reinforced my point, so do you still believe ghostly's role to be the one that least fits? How could you claim that when you have done no research? Am I talking to myself, or did nobody see this the last time I posted it? Because to me, it looks pretty scummy that he has done no research and can then turn around and say that ghostly's claim was the one that fit the least. Quote to show where you said this:

show

At the end of the exact same post, which shows that he could not logically know that ghostly's role did not fit (besides the typo, but I know my brother. He most likely took it from his PM and didnt give it a second thought. If he was fake claiming, he would have gotten the claim from a Wiki, and so he would have spelled it correctly):

show

I already told spiesr that I insisted because it was recommended by someone. What is the problem with showing support for the idea?

Any townie would prefer that an investigation be used to find a scum than to clear them in a situation like this.

When I have to claim PGO, I think its best that I get cleared instead of people having doubts of a fake claim. Like I said, either believe my claim and have him use his action elsewhere, or demand proof and have him prove it. I can promise I know Im telling the truth, but last I checked I am lucky to have made it this far with a claim like PGO, as they normally get lynched no questions asked. As far as Im concerned if you were doubting my claim earlier, you should be comforted that I want to prove I am town, not taken aback that I would want to be shown to all as town.

At this point I am trying to put charecters to their roles to see if they fit. Thus far Im having a issue with Carver

I have someone whose seeing the same thing I am! Thank you for agreeing!

[StubbsKVM]

I reread the night 2 phase and I misinterpreted that the whole time. Sorry about that.

Ghostly, please post!

[ghostly447]

Didnt read through over half of P27, and havent made it to 28, but I see a lot of people wanting the action. Dj, I was the tracker who visited lynx, and I go no result. I was hoping he would try to say that he visited someone and then I would have had him, but he didnt. I am going to the pool but will read when I return and make a post since just scrolling down, I saw my name a lot.

I am going to blatantly say that stubbs and lynx are reading as scum to me, and I will elaborate when I post. Except I will go ahead and say stubbs because not once did I see lynx's name posted as his top list of possible scum, when he didnt rule his role as the most out of place one, had holes in his case (yes I have still yet to get that and will), and quite frankly I think new guy1 owned him in the first case I saw and I havent even read through to see the rest of what developed.

Adam

PS: I am going to commit tonight. If I do not post my thoughts on lynx' case, then feel free to cast a FOS on me and follow through with a vote and hammer, because it is getting to the point where I am surprised I havent been lynched.

[StubbsKVM]

Dj and ghostly are either both scum or both town. I'm more inclined to believe town after recent events.
The thing that's still bothering me the most are my own night actions. Why did I not get results?? It just doesn't make sense to me.

Spiesr's actions have also been confirmed.

That leaves sniper, lynx and new guy.

All of who's actions are impossible to verify until dead.
unvote

[lynx_]

I think flavour-wise, Ghostly has the weakest claim.

new guy, those were my exact words. Nowhere did I say whether it fits or now, I simply said that on the back of his character's relative unimportance and mis-spelling his name, ghostly's claim is relatively weak.

Also, I think the buddying between new guy and ghostly is insane. Do you guys have a good feel for each others' alignments normally? Has either of you ever won as scum against the other?

Anyway, back to waiting for ghostly's promised content. 18 hours since that last post and counting.

ninja'd by Stubbs. What makes you think ghostly and DJ are town?

[lynx_]

EBWOP: not 18 hours at all, need to change the time settings on my account.

[ghostly447]

Okay my mom just came and told me to go to bed. That's awesome. I have half my post typed up but I am on my phone now saying this. I will try to sneak on I'm a few minutes to post but that's a slim chance. Bear with me, my next post whether tonight or tomorrow afternoon is going to be the case if I have to give a leg and an arm to get it done. -.-

I know how bad it looks but let me explain. I have had 2 days of weird sleeping patterns so I am not even supposed to be up right now. So she is concerned about how much sleep I have had more than anything or I would normally disregard her and post anyways. Give me upwards to 12-14 hours. Sorry.

Adam

[StubbsKVM]

I think it would be insane for scumbuddies to vouch for each other at this point.

The informant role is also hard to fake, I think. But his targets seem to be a bit too convenient, I think.

I will agree with you on the buddying, but I can't see a new guy/ghostly scumteam at this point.

Hmmm...

[StubbsKVM]

I also want to point out that my role can easily be verified in the upcoming night by tracker and informant, if they're real.

If we really want to, we could ask ghostly to track me and say who I watched.

[new guy1]

Lynx, where have I defended ghost past our conversation yesterday? Just because I believe you to be scum and he believes you to be scum does not mean we are defending each other. If you said those words then you are responsible for the way I interpreted them, since you didnt explain why his claim was the weakest. Regardless, I have done my research on your character, and have shown why your claim should be the weakest to everyone else.

Ghostly is my twin in person, and we have played mafia in person and heard snippits of how their arguments normally sound when they are mafia and town. Using the knowledge of being able to read something and say "oh that was sarcasm" or "well that sounded deflective" etc, we can usually tell whether each other are mafia or town. We dont discuss the games off the forums, as per the rules, and while ghost didnt win the game, in Final Fantasy VII (I think it was 7) he did make it to the final night as an SK. I was in the same game and lost pretty quickly.

[ghostly447]

As long as everyone confirms that they believe one or both of us that will be fine so long as we catch another scum today.

Now, to break down the part where I said it appeared lynx was taking things out of context.

The only reason I'm not voting for [new guy] after that "defense" is that I think your character is very likely to be in the game and the role fits with the flavour.

I don't know the flavour, but is new guy's role more or less likely to be in the game than betiko's false-claim, Rawls? I ask because on my other forum, in games with heavy flavour like this scum will normally have safe-claims.

Thats another thing that irritates me on this forum. If I dont give anyone else to look at/my thoughts on things, then its I havent said enough and thats scummy. If I give my take on it, thats scummy. Is there any way to get around looking scummy when all you're trying to do is literally give your input? I understand PGO is a pretty bad claim as far as being trustworthy, but damn at least give me a chance -_-.

Also lynx, if I wanted to come off as defensive, I would have voted you. You're talking as if I voted you. A little on edge there, lynx?

Why are you so worried about appearing scummy? Once again, I can see this post being made from a scum POV.
And I don't think you *wanted* to come off as defensive, nor did I think you voted me. I was referring to this part of your post:

I would vote lynx, but I havent seen him in any other games, and so I blame his directing of the town (jonty and stubs are 99% confirmed town, listen to them) on being foreign to the forums.

Im sorry, but last I checked, if you are going to try to single someone out for a certain reason, you need to include everyone. I dont mind the pressure on me, but dont lose site of everyone else.

Ping! Don't like being singled out, eh?

The only reason I'm not voting for [new guy] after that "defense" is that I think your character is very likely to be in the game and the role fits with the flavour.

I don't know the flavour, but is new guy's role more or less likely to be in the game than betiko's false-claim, Rawls? I ask because on my other forum, in games with heavy flavour like this scum will normally have safe-claims.

The only thing I will say about this is that if scum normally have safe-claims then why worry about how possible it is for his role to be in the game? It could go either way, because not every strong claim is a fake one, and some would argue that there would be a weak claim instead of a strong one, and I would bet more would argue that there would be a mix of them. In my past games, I have seen all of them and what will normally happen in a situation like that is the mafia line it up as a "the GF gets the best claim regardless" and from there they either do first claims get strongest, or they pick claims before even going out. We cannot base our lynches off assumptions that a role was less or more likely to be in the game. This is a weak, straw house case. There is nothing in here that has back bone. Brb, gotta go get my leaf blower.

Thats another thing that irritates me on this forum. If I dont give anyone else to look at/my thoughts on things, then its I havent said enough and thats scummy. If I give my take on it, thats scummy. Is there any way to get around looking scummy when all you're trying to do is literally give your input? I understand PGO is a pretty bad claim as far as being trustworthy, but damn at least give me a chance -_-.

Also lynx, if I wanted to come off as defensive, I would have voted you. You're talking as if I voted you. A little on edge there, lynx?

Why are you so worried about appearing scummy? Once again, I can see this post being made from a scum POV.[/quote]

Well lets see, looking scummy means you get looked into, which if your mafia is bad and can result in a lynch, and if your town may result in pushing to your claim. There, you are already 50% exposed, and depending on your role, are already subject to a NK. From there, you move to either a flush of the case which means wasted time, or you get a mislynch which is a waste of time and of a town role. Anything posted can be seen from a mafia point of view which makes for another straw house case. 0 scum read there too.

And I don't think you *wanted* to come off as defensive, nor did I think you voted me. I was referring to this part of your post:

I would vote lynx, but I havent seen him in any other games, and so I blame his directing of the town (jonty and stubs are 99% confirmed town, listen to them) on being foreign to the forums.

He is simply posting saying that he doesnt know how you play and therefore may be new to these forums and he cant read you quit yet. I cant remember the guys name, but one player on here was completely noobish and everytime he was mafia, mafia lost because if he couldnt argue his way out, half his mafia members went down with him because of his own doing. Everyone plays different, and apparently you like to try to make a case out of nothing much to try to get a lynch. Do you know who is forced to make big cases out of little things to get someone lynched? Mafia.

Im sorry, but last I checked, if you are going to try to single someone out for a certain reason, you need to include everyone. I dont mind the pressure on me, but dont lose site of everyone else.

Ping! Don't like being singled out, eh?

I am resisting the urge to smack someone right now for this. I dont like being singled out? Thats your point? I was being singled out for something that another player had done too. Lets see what you left out to make it look like I said I dont like being singled out. Darn, I guess if you left anything out that may have said I wasnt the only one being accused, or maybe something that would suggest that I was willing to take the case on me just so long as it was understood I wasnt the only person doing something wrong, then you would have to admit it would look pretty scummy as far as trying to leave something out to make me look scummy.

Alright, we'll just deposit your case in the records where we will use it to find scum, aaaand its gone.

So kirk, why you going after me when dj decided to start it? Im sorry, but last I checked, if you are going to try to single someone out for a certain reason, you need to include everyone. I dont mind the pressure on me, but dont lose site of everyone else.

Adam

So, why would you take out the part where I said Dj started it, and the part where I said I dont mind the pressure so long as you dont lose site of the others. Dj is cleared, or I would say scum buddy, but you have to be one for trying to make this straw case. Let me refresh your memories if needed, This was when we were making excuses as to why betiko could possibly be town, Dj posted 2-3 reasons, then I posted 1 example I had seen that would explain what he was doing, and lynx singled me out, making me:

1. Find a case on him because it was a crap case
2. Defend new guy1 from his crap case because it was a crap case.

This is why I have been defending new guy1 so much, and going after lynx like new guy1 is. A crap case, and another crap case.

Now I have finally dissected your case, plus the detail on your claim (being a spy for the guy who hates the department, blah blah blah, AKA likely your GF), I am more than confident that I will Vote Lynx_ because if you arent the scummiest player in the game, I dont know who is.

Adam

[thechuck51]

Vote Count 5.1

- lynx_ (2) - new guy1, ghostly447,

Not Voting: spiesr, lynx_, skillfusniper, Djfireside, stubbsKVM

With 7 Alive it takes 4 to Lynch

Deadline is July 31st at 10pm EST (5 days, 23 hours, 39 minutes remaining)

Mod, is sanity revealed on death?

yes, in the event any role has an abnormal sanity, it will be revealed upon their death

[spiesr]

Vote Newguy, for my previously mentioned reasons and my doubt at the existence of a PGO after taking another look at the rest of the claims.

[new guy1]

Vote Newguy, for my previously mentioned reasons and my doubt at the existence of a PGO after taking another look at the rest of the claims.

Wow. Someone with background knowledge of the show basically says my claim is believable, I dig up evidence on a player whose claim is the most unfitting (since when has there been a cop who was bulletproof?) and you come in and vote me. Fine, but if lynx shows up scum, you're my next choice because even in the face of all the evidence I presented, you come in and one line a vote on me.

[ghostly447]

Request prod and (should activity spike again) extension of 36 hours-48 hours to make up for the inactivty of several players.

Adam

[skillfusniper33]

I like the case on lynx, and he does seem to be really pushing everyone in the direction he wants. His claim seems kinda weird, since my understanding of the character is that he was more out for himself rather than the team. And he seems to be going behind several peoples back. I think he could be using the same name, but just changing his alignment, and role. Being completely bulletproof seems off for a cop themed show. I would have believed an X-shot since all cops wear a pullet proof vest for the raids.

I think he is also overreacting about the PGO role a bit. I know it is a very safe claim for mafia, but everyone else has let it go. Although this could be a nice play to draw distance between them, so New Guy can float to the end of the game.

Vote Lynx

I am also worried about DJ's role since he posted all of his actions after people posted theirs. He also targeted the same person who is dead, and didn't get targeted by anyone else the first 2 nights. This is a complex role, and if he is mafia, it is a very nice escape while providing a lot of details about who visited each person with information already provided.

[lynx_]

Vote Newguy, for my previously mentioned reasons and my doubt at the existence of a PGO after taking another look at the rest of the claims.

Wow. Someone with background knowledge of the show basically says my claim is believable, I dig up evidence on a player whose claim is the most unfitting (since when has there been a cop who was bulletproof?) and you come in and vote me.

...is the most defensive post ever.

Not to mention that I'm starting to get a little worried about all these votes on me.
Vote: new guy1

FoS skillful for suddenly appearing when a wagon was starting, not to mention his barely thought-out reasoning.

I'm not convinced we need an extension yet as there are still 4 days left by my count. A prod on DJ would be nice though.

[lynx_]

I like the case on lynx, and he does seem to be really pushing everyone in the direction he wants.

What does the second part mean? Are you referring to me scum-hunting and trying my best to build a solid case on someone?

Also, have new guy and ghostly ever been scum together? If so, could someone link me please?