[UNKNOWN] Mafia Day 5 - The Disappearance [Abandoned]

[jeraado]

PCM raises a good point there Rodion, what is Bleed refuses to reveal any information? There's not enough evidence that would lead me to cast a vote on him simply to help you obtain information and I don't see where the evidence would be for you to continue to be suspicious of him without revealing something yourself (not that I recommend doing that either.)

Well, if bleed won't give information then it will come down to why that is, and whether the case against him (which would then have to be built) was strong enough to build a full claim.

I have to say, it didn't quite sit with me right either, and I would consider a vote on him if it were required in order to encourage the information. I think Rodion's second question - what is the source of your character - is a less intrusive one, I just wonder whether it will be enough to be decisive

The reason why is because forcing information from someone at the drop of a hat basically can lead to a massclaim which is terrible for town as it gives mafia and third party their pick of town power roles to pick off. If we force something out of Bleed Green just because Rodion said so, we're basically greenlighting forcing everyone to reveal something for nothing (no voting, no cases, no pressure).

Yup, I understand why an unpressured nameclaim is a bad thing (although I cant help but remember post-apocalyptic where I was being skinned alive for refusing to nameclaim), however read through bleed's last post before Rodion's. What Rodion is saying is that it probably isn't strong enough for a case, but here is a chance for Bleed to pre-emptively clear his name. If he chooses not to, then it comes down to whether there is enough to build a case on him. However if there is, then obviously we would expect a full-claim.

I'm not saying that Rodion's approach was necessarily the best, but I am saying that we shouldn't just close it down because of the type of question being asked

[targetman377]

My thoughts on the matter. Lover didn't die was unexpected, but not unexplainable. The survivors of Post-Apoc know that commander likes to make things complicated (even though he promised this game wouldn't be )

Going for details after Nam seems like a plan, but not at the moment. Wait a day, and see what happens (Nam lives or dies). If Nam dies, problem solved. If Nam lives tomorrow, THEN there really is something fishy going on (although there is still the explanation of 1-way lover).

Target's posts could at the very least be considered controversial.

now is it just me or are we going on a wild goose chase with this Romo and Juliet thing! I mean could it just be the mafia trying to make us vote another town. Thats my impression if they are lovers does it really matter now that we know should we not try to find mafia?

I agree with Rodin on this. Why do we need to know this should we not put presser on some one else who could be mafia to see if we can figure more out? we already know that the nam is a lover that good!! now lets focused on other people the lovers could both be town i am thinking more and more that they are both town!

Target wants us to completely forget about the lovers, as they are town. Then he wants a full claim from the lovers, while at the same time he doesn't wanna pressure Nam.

Furthermore, he seems very VERY convinced they are both town. For reference, and a bit of meta here I know, commanders first game had a lover mechanic Mafia-Third Party Recruiter. Town-Town seems almost boring for him

What is the evidence to support your thinking they are both town? Flavour even suggests they are different families.
You also seem so bent on hunting out mafia (great, we should indeed focus on that!), but if you REALLY wanna help, you can provide a case on someone. Telling town they should focus on hunting mafia is kinda like telling someone to breath.

This is the best I can come up with for the moment, and I'll Vote target.

Hey streaker and i think one other person! let me explain myself. Yes i thought we foucosed to much on the lovers because of this

1. the lovers are both town
2. the lovers will both die
3. the one of the lovers is mafia

now out of those 2 possibilities there is a chance we are wasting a lynch. also if they can't talk well then i am pretty sure the lover is not mafia. and I am sorry for saying i agreed with roden and I was a little confused in my last post! let me try to explain

In Shakespeare's play, Juliet fakes her death to escape. Romeo thinks she really died and suicides. Then Juliet awakes, sees Romeo dead and suicides as well. There's some sort of "delay" in which people think Juliet died when she actually didn't. Here, it might be the opposite. People don't see her dead when she actually did? Or is that "delay" converted to the game in her taking 1 more day to die?

Anyway, I'd like Namliam to talk all he can. Full claim. Character's name, role, alignment, winning condition, possible message gotten from the mod during N1, everything.

This is the post I was referring to agree with rodion on The last part I do not agree with him i agree with the story of the lovers. But i will say it is suspicious Rodion draws attention away from the lovers and then asks for a full claim.

or maybe its just good playing cause it confirms his belief. By say i want a full claim and then putting pressure you would assume nam would respond but as we can see can't!

[Commander9]

Vote Count

safariguy5 (1) - freezie (votes do not stack)
freezie
pancakemix (1) - Edoc
Streaker
ndrs
Edocsil
vioiet
targetman377 (2) - Streaker, naxus
TheSaxlad
naxus
Iliad
DoomYoshi
karelpietertje
Rodion
blakebowling
jeraado
sheepofdumb
ShaggyDan
nagerous
Strike Wolf
Fircoal
Bleed_Green
Namliam (1) - Rodion

With 23 alive, it takes 12 to lynch.

[targetman377]

first a vote that sticks out to me as being scummy

Besides doing the easy thing and lynching shield, the other thing we could do is go for an inactive Day 1.

Namliam
NDRS
Campin_Killer

seem to be the least active, especially when we factor track record in. We could pressure activity out of one of them.

next post!

He's a new player and we like fresh meat. However we don't like people who are going to waste our time. There are a few of us who still want to see shield become a good player. If he's trolling then he'll get bored and leave after he realizes that people are just going to blacklist/lynch him. However in his first game he did show signs of interest so I don't want to out him as a troll. A numbskull yes, but not a troll.

Yeah, except that if your M.O. is acting scummy in every game, expect a lot of pressure every game.

next post

yeah I'm a newbie and still trying to work on my "trolling" (I still don't quite understand that term, but I get the jist). Sorry if I'm not up to par yet, I'm still working my way up there.
I agree with Streaker about voting for the inactives. if they're never around they can't be of much help to the town.
Unvote Vote Campin_Killer
@Iliad - And why should I have to defend myself right now? It's still in the joke vote stage, although it appears it is coming out a bit.
To be honest, i don't get the case on Streaker. It doesn't seem he did anything scummy.
AoG, however, did 2 unusual things this game: he voted before the day scene AND tried to force the town from the joke vote stage. It seems very unusual, even for him, and although I can't tell thus far if he is scum because of it but I just wanted to point that out, maybe it's due to nervousness of being found out as a mafia member? IDK as of yet. Do you care to explain this AoG?

Trust me, it's 100% out of the joke vote stage at this point. The problem here is that CK not being around a lot is also somewhat true for other people. There's been a very uneven amount of participation in this game, and by no means is he the only person flying under the radar. But I'm willing to give shield a chance this time, and unvote vote Campin_Killer but I am keeping an eye on you right now.

next post

I don't see your case on targetman streaker, he sounds innocent to me. Explain a little more please.

Sure.
He says he has been following the thread every single day, and managed to post absolutely zero substance or personal opinion.

When a few votes mount on CK, he is eager enough to hop on the wagon without contributing anything to it. The only times I've seen people get away with that is when you follow a cop's investigation or something.

It's not much, but it's something.

True, but I've played with him before and I might have modded a game that he played in. That's how he normally plays. While I'm all for giving noobs some slack, at some point, you have to evolve/improve as a player. And if you're not going to put the time into trying to improve, it's wasted effort in trying to give him allowances. It seems CK is inactive again, so I will unvote and await mod action, but I'm not willing to keep extending the leash with the newer players indefinitely.

next post

Here's the problem with votehopping. If we were in the joke vote stage, vote hopping is probably ok. But since you seem to have firmly established that we are out of the joke vote stage through your accusation of nagerous, changing your vote excessively is seen as scummy because it looks like you're trying to push for a lynch while staying under the radar. When changing votes, it's necessary to provide some sort of reason, and I really think this voting of nagerous is sort of ridiculous. Correct me if I'm wrong but he wasn't the one who came dangerously close to hammering. And I still think that some players have acted more scummy than that one little vote. Nag might have skimmed the thread and didn't realize that shaggy was already under pressure, but he wasn't the one who almost hammered him.

next one

I think a prod of AoG is in order and a replacement if possible. Lynching inactives Day 1 is less desirable in larger games I think because we definitely have more leads.

Hmm, I thought I was voting for someone. Oh well. I really wanted to give shield a chance, I really did. But you can't use the noob card every single game you've played. With deadline approaching, I'd rather hear a claim from someone who's active than lynch an inactive and pray he's mafia.

vote shield

I think that town/mafia lovers is a definite possibility given the size of the game and also the the possibility of multiple factions (see Post Apoc game). And if the two of them are just straight lovers, there's a good possibility that they could be separate third parties, which doesn't hurt town too much anyways.

So, Romeo and Juliet? Great. We shouldn't lynch them, but I sure as hell wouldn't give them a doc protect either. Leave that for a player that will return the investment.

I still think there's at least a 50-50 chance that at least one of them is mafia or not town aligned. Between the quandary that is shield and the submarining that is namliam, I'm willing to take the lynch over a no lynch day 1.

vote Namliam Something doesn't add up if you're not dead yet. That's not standard lover's mechanic.

vote Namliam Something doesn't add up if you're not dead yet. That's not standard lover's mechanic.

No, it doesn't. But it's no reason to vote him, anyway.

Let him explain what is the deal. He IS a confirmed lover...if by tomorow he isn't dead, then we can worry about it. There is no reason to vote him unless he doesn't want to explain.

Target's post doesn't seem controversial...He just wants us to not focus harsly on Nam...Even if he is mafia..he's known already.

Vote: Safari

For diverting attention on a known harmless matter.


Wait for explanations, then we'll lynch him if he doesn't help.

Known harmless matter? Take a look at shield's role on the first page, it says Romeo, lover. Now Romeo and Juliet seems textbook standard lover mechanic, and both he and Nam agreed that they were lovers. I think the foundation has been set that they meant standard lover mechanic. Which means that the lack of a death is not standard lovers mechanic. I'd like some clarification and by no means is my vote a death sentence, but nam's continued submarining isn't making it any better.

Prod nam please?

Sorry I have been extremely busy with work that I have not really had much chance to catch up on my reading on this post, I have done a lot of reading up just trying to understand how romeo & juliet and the knights templar play in.. if this is a classic then there good easily be a third party, I did some reading and third party could be Paris the prince of Verona that Juliet was promised to before meeting Romeo.

I am still trying to wrap my head a round why Knights Templars are involved???

It must be a mix of several different factions from across the medieval timeline. Although I'm not 100% sure what the alignments are, I'm pretty sure the Knights Templar are town.

But I will try to get the submariners more active in lieu of a better case. It's not like there was nothing to discuss today that would elicit no response.

unvote vote ndrs

Not trying make excuses, but I'm in a few games with C9 and was expecting him to be out for the week. Therefore, I didn't keep track of the thread. It's three in the morning, so I'll come back in the morning to read and post if I find anything that catches my attention.

BTW, not fair to single me out for "submarining", there is a few other names I can think of. This is how many pages I had to go back to find the last post from (sorry in advance if I miscounted or missed any posts – I'm tired):

ndrs 6 pages
illiad 8 pages
vioIet 9 pages
sheepofdumb 10pages
jeraado 11 pages
karelpietertje 17 pages

So why me safariguy4?

Quite frankly, because you haven't gotten a lot of experience and all of the people that you've listed have played mafia and I know they can be productive. This is what, the second game you've played and neither of them have you been particularly active or contributing very much.

And I got the evergrowing feeling that saf is trying to divert our attention on anything and anyone here...

Well do you have a better lead? Pressuring Nam got us nowhere, I then go to the standard target a submariner.

And I got the evergrowing feeling that saf is trying to divert our attention on anything and anyone here...

Well do you have a better lead? Pressuring Nam got us nowhere, I then go to the standard target a submariner.

While I can understand targeting a submariner, you know that it is a cop out and a way for scum to pretend to be 'helping' town. And yet you admit to it. Furthermore, usually the goal of voting submariners is to get them to post. Ndrs has now posted, and yet you haven't unvoted.

And I got the evergrowing feeling that saf is trying to divert our attention on anything and anyone here...

Saf is not the only one doing this. Take nagerous, for example. Why would you suggest he is a better target?

Why haven't I unvoted? Again, it's because the posts are lacking in content. First he basically says "Oh yeah I submarined, but other people do it too, so you should look at them...

Not trying make excuses, but I'm in a few games with C9 and was expecting him to be out for the week. Therefore, I didn't keep track of the thread. It's three in the morning, so I'll come back in the morning to read and post if I find anything that catches my attention.

BTW, not fair to single me out for "submarining", there is a few other names I can think of. This is how many pages I had to go back to find the last post from (sorry in advance if I miscounted or missed any posts – I'm tired):

ndrs 6 pages
illiad 8 pages
vioIet 9 pages
sheepofdumb 10pages
jeraado 11 pages
karelpietertje 17 pages

So why me safariguy4?

Then he says

Quite frankly, because you haven't gotten a lot of experience and all of the people that you've listed have played mafia and I know they can be productive. This is what, the second game you've played and neither of them have you been particularly active or contributing very much.

To me, that's not much of a reason to vote me over the other guys. I don't see the logic. But it could've been worse, could've been you picked me on random or just because you wanted to see more of my beautiful mustache.

By the way, this is my first Mafia game.

Which is basically a subtle way of playing the noob card.

I wanted a post that actually has some substance to it. The simplest thing to do would be to take a stand on this Namliam issue. Either you think that it's suspicious and there's some explanation that may involve third parties, or you think that the issue will work itself out. Not even taking a position on the most recent issue is unproductive and doesn't help anyone get a read on you. I can't say he's "acting townish or acting scummy" simply because he hasn't posted anything that we can nail him down on.

I'm not asking for post quantity, I'm asking for post quality. 1 well presented case per day is much better than 10 fluff posts that give you the illusion of activity while saying nothing.

1. he flip flops all the time.

2. he goes for easy kills inactivity and other cases that are already built. but before a bandwagon is started so he can keep a low profile!

3.in HIS WORDS I'm not asking for post quantity, I'm asking for post quality. 1 well presented case per day is much better than 10 fluff posts that give you the illusion of activity while saying nothing. I agree with that ILLUSION OF ACTIVITY WHILE SAYING NOTHING!!! you will vote for someone doing the exact same thing as you!!!

VOTE SAFI!!!

[targetman377]

EPWOP: sorry if that was too long i can always make them shorter!

[naxus]

I agree with Rodin on this. Why do we need to know this should we not put presser on some one else who could be mafia to see if we can figure more out? we already know that the nam is a lover that good!! now lets focused on other people the lovers could both be town i am thinking more and more that they are both town!

Also target what the hell are you talking about?Rodion wants a full claim from nam

unvote Vote target for still no explanation here and seemingly avoiding the question when a few others have asked about it

id vote you again target if I could. skimming to a point and Safari has explained his strategy/actions so that long post is useless in my opinion

[Rodion]

Your quotation compilation did bring something weird to my attention. Not really the core of your case against Safari, but weird nonetheless.

Sorry I have been extremely busy with work that I have not really had much chance to catch up on my reading on this post, I have done a lot of reading up just trying to understand how romeo & juliet and the knights templar play in.. if this is a classic then there good easily be a third party, I did some reading and third party could be Paris the prince of Verona that Juliet was promised to before meeting Romeo.

I am still trying to wrap my head a round why Knights Templars are involved???

It must be a mix of several different factions from across the medieval timeline. Although I'm not 100% sure what the alignments are, I'm pretty sure the Knights Templar are town.

But I will try to get the submariners more active in lieu of a better case. It's not like there was nothing to discuss today that would elicit no response.

unvote vote ndrs

Deadened people :

1. shieldgenerator7 - Romeo, lover, lynched Day 1.
2. Army of God Henry Chevalier, Monk of Knights Templar, has been killed on Night 1.

Commander gave Romeo and Henry different colours. Shouldn't that be enough to conclude the Knights Templar are NOT town? (I'm using the newbie card if someone thinks this question is stupid )

[naxus]

Your quotation compilation did bring something weird to my attention. Not really the core of your case against Safari, but weird nonetheless.

Sorry I have been extremely busy with work that I have not really had much chance to catch up on my reading on this post, I have done a lot of reading up just trying to understand how romeo & juliet and the knights templar play in.. if this is a classic then there good easily be a third party, I did some reading and third party could be Paris the prince of Verona that Juliet was promised to before meeting Romeo.

I am still trying to wrap my head a round why Knights Templars are involved???

It must be a mix of several different factions from across the medieval timeline. Although I'm not 100% sure what the alignments are, I'm pretty sure the Knights Templar are town.

But I will try to get the submariners more active in lieu of a better case. It's not like there was nothing to discuss today that would elicit no response.

unvote vote ndrs

Deadened people :

1. shieldgenerator7 - Romeo, lover, lynched Day 1.
2. Army of God Henry Chevalier, Monk of Knights Templar, has been killed on Night 1.

Commander gave Romeo and Henry different colours. Shouldn't that be enough to conclude the Knights Templar are NOT town? (I'm using the newbie card if someone thinks this question is stupid )

Colors differ from mod to mod. Blue is usually the most accepted color

[strike wolf]

Actually rodion. I would consider that a good catch on the colors...I would imagine the templar color represents a third party group but not sure.

[Bleed_Green]

Okay everyone, I have caught up on my reading here. Once again I was busy this weekend, I had to drive back to my home town this weekend to get fitted for tux with my grooms men so that kept me away.

Now that is done now back to business, yes fircoal you are right this game I have not been that productive cause of real life but I am back now and my schedule is getting a little under control so I will be back at it once again.

Rodion, I have no problem answering you questions but I can guarantee either with my name or your other question will not help your investigation at all, due to this I will not answer unless I feel that the town would like to hear this from, you do not have to give me any FOS or Votes.

I would like to just hear from the town as to what they would like and I like I said I have no issue with this.

But this is what I have determined by my role, the death of romeo and the outcome of the knights templar. You curiosity if it deals with just Shakespeare plays is a good avenue to start but the Knights templar have nothing to do with shakespeare.

[DoomYoshi]

When saf is pretty sure of something, it means he is involved somehow. unvote vote saf.

Also, Bleed, you can give the information if you want. Nobody is stopping you... I am beginning to think it might be best for you to give it now rather than risk an NK and our investigation going nowhere.

[targetman377]

I agree with Rodin on this. Why do we need to know this should we not put presser on some one else who could be mafia to see if we can figure more out? we already know that the nam is a lover that good!! now lets focused on other people the lovers could both be town i am thinking more and more that they are both town!

Also target what the hell are you talking about?Rodion wants a full claim from nam

unvote Vote target for still no explanation here and seemingly avoiding the question when a few others have asked about it

id vote you again target if I could. skimming to a point and Safari has explained his strategy/actions so that long post is useless in my opinion

OK so you consider always switciching your vote trying to go under the radar as not scummy?

and i thought i answered it in the post before!!!!! LIKE I SAID rodion wanted a full claim but he also feels the the romo and juilet could both be town and that it would be better to foucos on other things I ALREADY MADE THAT POST!!! if you don't believe me GO TO THE PAGE BEFORE THIS!!!

[targetman377]

look nax if you want to say i did not answer the question in my first post on page 27 fine tell me what else you want to know?

[Rodion]

Okay everyone, I have caught up on my reading here. Once again I was busy this weekend, I had to drive back to my home town this weekend to get fitted for tux with my grooms men so that kept me away.

Now that is done now back to business, yes fircoal you are right this game I have not been that productive cause of real life but I am back now and my schedule is getting a little under control so I will be back at it once again.

Rodion, I have no problem answering you questions but I can guarantee either with my name or your other question will not help your investigation at all, due to this I will not answer unless I feel that the town would like to hear this from, you do not have to give me any FOS or Votes.

I would like to just hear from the town as to what they would like and I like I said I have no issue with this.

But this is what I have determined by my role, the death of romeo and the outcome of the knights templar. You curiosity if it deals with just Shakespeare plays is a good avenue to start but the Knights templar have nothing to do with shakespeare.

I already know it doesn't.

I just want to know if you are from Shakespeare (and, if yes, from which book?).

[Bleed_Green]

Okay everyone, I have caught up on my reading here. Once again I was busy this weekend, I had to drive back to my home town this weekend to get fitted for tux with my grooms men so that kept me away.

Now that is done now back to business, yes fircoal you are right this game I have not been that productive cause of real life but I am back now and my schedule is getting a little under control so I will be back at it once again.

Rodion, I have no problem answering you questions but I can guarantee either with my name or your other question will not help your investigation at all, due to this I will not answer unless I feel that the town would like to hear this from, you do not have to give me any FOS or Votes.

I would like to just hear from the town as to what they would like and I like I said I have no issue with this.

But this is what I have determined by my role, the death of romeo and the outcome of the knights templar. You curiosity if it deals with just Shakespeare plays is a good avenue to start but the Knights templar have nothing to do with shakespeare.

I already know it doesn't.

I just want to know if you are from Shakespeare (and, if yes, from which book?).

No I am not from Shakespeare. What I will tell you is that I also have nothing to do with the Knights Templar.

Now Rodion can you please explain what angle you are looking at?

[ShaggyDan]

Sorry for the lack of posting, I find it hard to keep track in larger games and didn't think posting waffle would help.

As for the Rodion situation, now that there's been an answer to his question I would like to know why he pushed this question. Though finding out what book of shakespeare a character is from doesn't sound like it could hurt someone I am very, very interested in seeing why he needed this information.

If I had the chance earlier to post about the question I would have agreed with answering the question about 'which book', under the provision that Rodion provide a full explanation after. I don't necessarily think Rodion is scummy, but I think he was too forward and blunt if he is indeed some kind of investigative town role.

I'm in the process of re-reading and trying to piece things together or look out for odd posts, I'm having more trouble than usual with keeping track of this game. Sorry guys

[safariguy5]

I agree with Rodin on this. Why do we need to know this should we not put presser on some one else who could be mafia to see if we can figure more out? we already know that the nam is a lover that good!! now lets focused on other people the lovers could both be town i am thinking more and more that they are both town!

Also target what the hell are you talking about?Rodion wants a full claim from nam

unvote Vote target for still no explanation here and seemingly avoiding the question when a few others have asked about it

id vote you again target if I could. skimming to a point and Safari has explained his strategy/actions so that long post is useless in my opinion

OK so you consider always switciching your vote trying to go under the radar as not scummy?

and i thought i answered it in the post before!!!!! LIKE I SAID rodion wanted a full claim but he also feels the the romo and juilet could both be town and that it would be better to foucos on other things I ALREADY MADE THAT POST!!! if you don't believe me GO TO THE PAGE BEFORE THIS!!!

I'm not switching my vote with no reason. I'm actively trying to find scum, which is more than I can say for you until literally half a page ago. I've explained why I vote submariners, and you're basically rehashing freezie's case over again. If anything, I've consistently pressured submariners when we don't have an open case or lead. Excuse me for trying to get opinions out of everyone, but we can't rightly get a read on half the people in the game if they don't post. I've made my feelings clear on every major issue in this game, you know who I've been agreeing and disagreeing with. I'm on the radar, not under it. Being under the radar implies bandwagonning, then submarining, then moving on to the next bandwagon.

And to be clear, when I say fluff, I mean posting something like "hey guys, just want to post and say that I'm reading the thread but don't have anything to add to the conversation" which you have done in the past as well.

Show me where I've posted fluff posts besides the joke stage Day 1.

When saf is pretty sure of something, it means he is involved somehow. unvote vote saf.

Also, Bleed, you can give the information if you want. Nobody is stopping you... I am beginning to think it might be best for you to give it now rather than risk an NK and our investigation going nowhere.

Sure about what? Please elaborate.

[Rodion]

No I am not from Shakespeare. What I will tell you is that I also have nothing to do with the Knights Templar.

Now Rodion can you please explain what angle you are looking at?

Gladly.

This is where it all started.

Sorry I have been extremely busy with work that I have not really had much chance to catch up on my reading on this post, I have done a lot of reading up just trying to understand how romeo & juliet and the knights templar play in.. if this is a classic then there good easily be a third party, I did some reading and third party could be Paris the prince of Verona that Juliet was promised to before meeting Romeo.

I am still trying to wrap my head a round why Knights Templars are involved???

We've seen Romeo die (and Namliam is probably Juliet). We've seen a Knights Templar die (and others appeared on the flavour). We've seen something that has "inhumanly fast reflexes". You are speculating about flavour. You consider there could be a 3rd party. So far, so good.

The interesting things:

- when speculating on who this 3rd-party can be, you name Paris, a character from Romeo and Juliet
- you don't seem to understand why the Knights Templar are involved (as seen by blue highlights)

Now, I can tell you that my character is not from Romeo and Juliet. It's not a Knights Templar either. When I've connected "Romeo and Juliet" with "Knights Templar" with my own character, I quickly realized the theme is broad, so broad that I'd be willing to believe this 25-player game featured figures like Cristopher Columbus, Leonardo Da Vinci, Inquisitors, Dracula, Frankenstein and several other book characters. You, however, appear to be extremely narrow-minded, as your 3rd-party speculation mentions only a character from Romeo and Juliet and you don't seem to understand why the Knights Templar are on the game at all.

The way you viewed things made me come to only 1 acceptable conclusion that is not harmful to yourself: that you were a pro-town Romeo and Juliet character. If you are a pro-town character from Romeo and Juliet and you see Romeo claim on day 1 (and a second person, probably Juliet, confirm his lover liaison), your mind is so absorbed on the idea that "the theme is Romeo and Juliet" that your 3rd-party speculation can only be a character from the book/play (Paris). Besides, by being totally absorbed on Romeo and Juliet, you have an extreme hard time understanding the Knights Templar's presence in the game.

Had you claimed you were from Romeo and Juliet, I'd have apologized for my behaviour and said I wouldn't pursue a case on you anymore (unless you gave me another reason in the future). I had, however, the feeling that there wouldn't be a third Romeo and Juliet character, unless he had an alignment other than town. That means that the only explanation that would allow me not to find you scummy was considered unlikely by me. I decided to ask because the odds looked pretty good. Any answer other than "I'm from Romeo and Juliet" would not explain why your vision was so narrow in suggesting a 3rd-party character from Romeo and Juliet and having to "wrap your head around" on why the Knights Templar were part of the theme.

In summary, I now see 2 possibilities:
a) you had that narrow vision because you are indeed from Romeo and Juliet (and that means you have lied by saying you're not from Shakespeare) - the explanation being that you are not pro-town
b) you have a non-Shakespearean character, which, added with the Knights Templar and the figure with inhumanly fast reflexes is more than enough data to understand that the game was not only about Romeo and Juliet, yet you behaved like you didn't understand - the explanation being that you were trying to mislead the town.

Finally, I can't know exactly where you lied, but your current behaviour contradicts your former, and I think it's irrelevant whether you lied before and told the truth now or the other way around. You tried to deceive the town and that's enough to warrant my vote.

Vote Bleed.

[Rodion]

EBWOP: Commander wants coloured votes.

Vote Bleed.

[Bleed_Green]

I was never actually trying to mislead the town, I was merely trying to connect the dots. Like I originally said from all the talks about lovers mechanics even after the death of 1 of the Templars Knights it seemed that everyone was focusing on the Romeo and Juliet theme and I was trying to understand how the Knights Templar played a role in Romeo & Juliet, it was never to mislead the town in any direction other then trying to determine what is going on. The speculation earlier of a cult/ 3rd party I merely looked at theme that was brought up to see if there was connection in the storyline, from reading the wiki page on Romeo and Juliet I found the part about Paris and just brought it to light.

Now, I can tell you that my character is not from Romeo and Juliet. It's not a Knights Templar either. When I've connected "Romeo and Juliet" with "Knights Templar" with my own character, I quickly realized the theme is broad, so broad that I'd be willing to believe this 25-player game featured figures like Cristopher Columbus, Leonardo Da Vinci, Inquisitors, Dracula, Frankenstein and several other book characters. You, however, appear to be extremely narrow-minded, as your 3rd-party speculation mentions only a character from Romeo and Juliet and you don't seem to understand why the Knights Templar are on the game at all.

As for calling me narrow minded, maybe i might have been. But since you seemed to have figured out what is going on maybe you could come out with what the theme is so we can start looking in the right direction, I am pretty sure I am not the only trying to connect the dots.

[Streaker]

I'm not liking target's explanation. He needed multiple days for that...
+1 for the effort of making the case, but saf already explained his reasons for vote hopping. Yes, there is a contradiction where saf says vote hopping is a poor course of action, but there is a difference between that, and actively hunting out the scummariners. I'll let my vote stay there for now.

On to Rodion's posts! Good call on the different colours. At the very least we know the Templars and the lovers are different factions. Blue is usually town, and I can see the Templars as a Third Party here. Given they had a bodyguard, it makes me believe there is a full 'set' of them. So 'probably' no recruiter with them. All speculation, yes.

His attack on Bleed will need some rereading though, I'm not willing to blindly jump on his wagon. There seems to be quite some WIFOM in it, also.

[Rodion]

I was never actually trying to mislead the town, I was merely trying to connect the dots. Like I originally said from all the talks about lovers mechanics even after the death of 1 of the Templars Knights it seemed that everyone was focusing on the Romeo and Juliet theme and I was trying to understand how the Knights Templar played a role in Romeo & Juliet, it was never to mislead the town in any direction other then trying to determine what is going on. The speculation earlier of a cult/ 3rd party I merely looked at theme that was brought up to see if there was connection in the storyline, from reading the wiki page on Romeo and Juliet I found the part about Paris and just brought it to light.

You see, connecting the dots is ok. It's the behaviours I desire from anyone that wants to help the town. The problem is how you connected the dots. You say your character is not from Shakespeare (information nº 1). When you add that to "Romeo and Juliet" (information nº 2), Knights Templar (information nº 3) and the figure with inhumanly fast reflexes (information nº4), you have more than enough information to understand that there are multiple books/historical documents/stories/tales/whatever in the game. The way you posted (raising a 3rd party from Romeo and Juliet and claiming not having understood why the Templars are part of the game) shows something is really murky as you had enough dots to form a certain picture yet your formed another. I can only see that as misleading behaviour, a scumtell in my book.

Now, I can tell you that my character is not from Romeo and Juliet. It's not a Knights Templar either. When I've connected "Romeo and Juliet" with "Knights Templar" with my own character, I quickly realized the theme is broad, so broad that I'd be willing to believe this 25-player game featured figures like Cristopher Columbus, Leonardo Da Vinci, Inquisitors, Dracula, Frankenstein and several other book characters. You, however, appear to be extremely narrow-minded, as your 3rd-party speculation mentions only a character from Romeo and Juliet and you don't seem to understand why the Knights Templar are on the game at all.

As for calling me narrow minded, maybe i might have been. But since you seemed to have figured out what is going on maybe you could come out with what the theme is so we can start looking in the right direction, I am pretty sure I am not the only trying to connect the dots.[/quote]

First of all, I didn't mean to offend you (sorry if it sounded that way). Hope you take it just like the game it is and not to a personal level.

And I'm not going to be the prophet that will guide the town in determining the exact range of themes gathered in this game. As I said on my previous post, I think this theme is broad, really broad. I'm guessing there can be characters from between 1100 A.D. and 1900 A.D. . That's a wild guess and perhaps we can narrow that down with time, but for now that's my best guess.

[Rodion]

EBWOP - fixing BBCode

I was never actually trying to mislead the town, I was merely trying to connect the dots. Like I originally said from all the talks about lovers mechanics even after the death of 1 of the Templars Knights it seemed that everyone was focusing on the Romeo and Juliet theme and I was trying to understand how the Knights Templar played a role in Romeo & Juliet, it was never to mislead the town in any direction other then trying to determine what is going on. The speculation earlier of a cult/ 3rd party I merely looked at theme that was brought up to see if there was connection in the storyline, from reading the wiki page on Romeo and Juliet I found the part about Paris and just brought it to light.

You see, connecting the dots is ok. It's the behaviour I desire from anyone that wants to help the town. The problem is how you connected the dots. You say your character is not from Shakespeare (information nº 1). When you add that to "Romeo and Juliet" (information nº 2), Knights Templar (information nº 3) and the figure with inhumanly fast reflexes (information nº4), you have more than enough information to understand that there are multiple books/historical documents/stories/tales/whatever in the game. The way you posted (raising a 3rd party from Romeo and Juliet and claiming not having understood why the Templars are part of the game) shows something is really murky as you had enough dots to form a certain picture yet your formed another. I can only see that as misleading behaviour, a scumtell in my book.

As for calling me narrow minded, maybe i might have been. But since you seemed to have figured out what is going on maybe you could come out with what the theme is so we can start looking in the right direction, I am pretty sure I am not the only trying to connect the dots.

First of all, I didn't mean to offend you (sorry if it sounded that way). Hope you take it just like the game it is and not to a personal level.

And I'm not going to be the prophet that will guide the town in determining the exact range of themes gathered in this game. As I said on my previous post, I think this theme is broad, really broad. I'm guessing there can be characters from between 1100 A.D. and 1900 A.D. . That's a wild guess and perhaps we can narrow that down with time, but for now that's my best guess.

[Bleed_Green]

You see, connecting the dots is ok. It's the behaviour I desire from anyone that wants to help the town. The problem is how you connected the dots. You say your character is not from Shakespeare (information nº 1). When you add that to "Romeo and Juliet" (information nº 2), Knights Templar (information nº 3) and the figure with inhumanly fast reflexes (information nº4), you have more than enough information to understand that there are multiple books/historical documents/stories/tales/whatever in the game. The way you posted (raising a 3rd party from Romeo and Juliet and claiming not having understood why the Templars are part of the game) shows something is really murky as you had enough dots to form a certain picture yet your formed another. I can only see that as misleading behaviour, a scumtell in my book.

No worries, i do not get offended easily and after reading the above I can see where I was narrowed minded, I did not catch that and put it all together.. I was searching for a connection which I could not find. I think I was trying to look for an easier theme since this is only my 2nd game ever played

[safariguy5]

EBWOP - fixing BBCode

I was never actually trying to mislead the town, I was merely trying to connect the dots. Like I originally said from all the talks about lovers mechanics even after the death of 1 of the Templars Knights it seemed that everyone was focusing on the Romeo and Juliet theme and I was trying to understand how the Knights Templar played a role in Romeo & Juliet, it was never to mislead the town in any direction other then trying to determine what is going on. The speculation earlier of a cult/ 3rd party I merely looked at theme that was brought up to see if there was connection in the storyline, from reading the wiki page on Romeo and Juliet I found the part about Paris and just brought it to light.

You see, connecting the dots is ok. It's the behaviour I desire from anyone that wants to help the town. The problem is how you connected the dots. You say your character is not from Shakespeare (information nº 1). When you add that to "Romeo and Juliet" (information nº 2), Knights Templar (information nº 3) and the figure with inhumanly fast reflexes (information nº4), you have more than enough information to understand that there are multiple books/historical documents/stories/tales/whatever in the game. The way you posted (raising a 3rd party from Romeo and Juliet and claiming not having understood why the Templars are part of the game) shows something is really murky as you had enough dots to form a certain picture yet your formed another. I can only see that as misleading behaviour, a scumtell in my book.

As for calling me narrow minded, maybe i might have been. But since you seemed to have figured out what is going on maybe you could come out with what the theme is so we can start looking in the right direction, I am pretty sure I am not the only trying to connect the dots.

First of all, I didn't mean to offend you (sorry if it sounded that way). Hope you take it just like the game it is and not to a personal level.

And I'm not going to be the prophet that will guide the town in determining the exact range of themes gathered in this game. As I said on my previous post, I think this theme is broad, really broad. I'm guessing there can be characters from between 1100 A.D. and 1900 A.D. . That's a wild guess and perhaps we can narrow that down with time, but for now that's my best guess.

I don't think a historical hard timeline is necessarily possible. While the Templars are known to have existed in historical time, I don't know if Romeo and Juliet are assigned a hard time period. Ditto for Dracula. Maybe a blanket Medieval setting would be appropriate, but we're mixing historical and literary characters here.