star wars mafia game over rebels win, with survivers help

[Rainbow Eater]

1. You normally don't want to hammer a claimed "doc" unless it is countered since it hadn't been this game and did not explain why we didn't have colton protected the previous night.

LoL, he claimed an obvious bs role. Just because he claimed doc does not mean that you do not want to hammer him, if that was the case all scum would claim doc, which most of them do.

I do not think there is a doc, otherwise colton would have been protected. The mere fact that colton died should have given everyone a hint here that there is no doctor, and by wer claiming doctor just made him even more scummy.

2. I checked and saw that he hadn't even taken turns in his games since his previous turn so he hadn't been back on.

That is a good thing to do when the person is debatable scum, but not when he is as obvious as wer. Not to mention the fact that he had enough time to log on and try to make a defense. No one should have unvoted and someone should have hammered.

3. I was at my fiance's house and didn't get to be on the computer since I wound up sleeping over there.

you had ample time before that to hammer his ass, you made excuse after excuse and should have done the job IMO.

[wercool]

i was a doc

[ga7]

Hmm, I find RE much more suspicious than LSU.
RE's case makes sense, but it seems really pushing it.
First, claiming there is no doc and wercool's claim was by default BS: there is no way there isn't any doc, it's such a basic role, it's way more likely the doc screwed up. Claiming Colton died is a hint on town not having ANY protective roles is way far fetched.
Second, scum claiming doc is very easily counterclaimed and lynched, so being cautious to not make a mistake and lynch the real doc did make sense. It's very easily provable whether Wercool did log in or not as LSU claims he checked, so that's another point for him IMO. There wouldn't have been any particular interest for scum to do that.
Third, if LSU was scum you're missing a big point: he would NOT have needed to make all this show, giving extra time and bringing the light on him. It's quite obvious he would have just been low profile and not vote him, leaving the deadline to expire and hoping someone wouldn't hammer. If you push the WIFOM further he would have had all the interest to just call him a bluff and hammer him right away, as that could have given him the most credit to appear as townie. Of course this kind of approach only works when you know the player is experienced, but LSU is, and I simply don't believe he would have unnecessarily attracted attention to himself when it was so likely it could come to bite him in the ass later on.
Anyway, this is just the topping of the case, but it brings cream to my plate so to speak.

Fact is, I found RE's behavior in the previous day, especially during the wercool bandwagon, to be quite suspicious.
First was this quote:

...I wouldn't be suprised to find at least one more investigative type role in here.

Interesting that you say this. maybe you know something that rest of us do not, like either you are one or that you are setting up the fall of a cop in the future?

Well, this is interesting. LSU made what was, at least IMHO, a fairly innocent comment. Why jump on him? It is possible that there is another investigator, a possibility that has some facts to back it up.

I agree with Cubfan's insight here, to me it looks like RE was fishing for some kind of admittance that LSU was in fact an investigative role. Which was obviously only in mafia's interest to know.

im a doc

specifics?

a claim this vague in your current position will not get you anywhere but dead.

So before RE claims today that Wer's claim was complete bogus from the start, we see this nice little warning here. As though he was hoping the fakeclaim to get more consistent.

Give the name of your character and why you did NOT protect colton last night.

kind of makes sense that he is a dr. and that he did not protect colton. he seems a little new and out of it so I can see why it happened, funny, but sad too.

This is the cherry. When you see a priori RE being dubious about Wer's claim, a posteriori RE making such a strong statement about how it was unmissable Wer was scum, this is the stance in between. Trying to explain to the town how Wer could have completely screwed up as a doc even though he was kinda active.

To preemptively answer the coming "BUT I VOTED HIM!!!1!" defense, that just means I give you enough credit to be the scum on the right wagon so you should be flattered even when it's not very consistent with anything else. Your overreaction about LSU not voting Wer really makes me think you feel untouchable since you were on the wagon and feel you can get lynched any townie who wasn't.

[ga7]

Oops forgot

Vote RE

[Rainbow Eater]

Oops forgot

Vote RE

scum buddy much? thought you were a more seasoned player than this.

[ga7]

Nice that you just OMGUS accuse me instead of answering anything relevant to the case.

[UTAlan]

I gotta say, I haven't suspected RE up until now, but he's getting quite defensive today.

[Rainbow Eater]

actually I am getting offensive. I found LSU scummy the day before and I found him very scummy yesterday after not hammering wer when he could have.

Nice that you just OMGUS accuse me instead of answering anything relevant to the case.

All you did was OMGUS, you based you vote on what?

First, claiming there is no doc and wercool's claim was by default BS: there is no way there isn't any doc, it's such a basic role, it's way more likely the doc screwed up. Claiming Colton died is a hint on town not having ANY protective roles is way far fetched.

why is that way to far fetched? there are lost of games without a doc, I believe that this one is one of them.

Second, scum claiming doc is very easily counterclaimed and lynched, so being cautious to not make a mistake and lynch the real doc did make sense. It's very easily provable whether Wercool did log in or not as LSU claims he checked, so that's another point for him IMO. There wouldn't have been any particular interest for scum to do that.

So why did no one counter him? and why did the Dr. not protect colton? Both just happened to happen? I find it much more likely that there is no DR.

Third, if LSU was scum you're missing a big point: he would NOT have needed to make all this show, giving extra time and bringing the light on him. It's quite obvious he would have just been low profile and not vote him, leaving the deadline to expire and hoping someone wouldn't hammer.

not true, what better way to say "I wanted to vote him, but I didn't have time". everyone see that he wanted to vote him, but he did not because he knew he was scum.

Fact is, I found RE's behavior in the previous day, especially during the wercool bandwagon, to be quite suspicious.
First was this quote:

...I wouldn't be suprised to find at least one more investigative type role in here.

Interesting that you say this. maybe you know something that rest of us do not, like either you are one or that you are setting up the fall of a cop in the future?

Well, this is interesting. LSU made what was, at least IMHO, a fairly innocent comment. Why jump on him? It is possible that there is another investigator, a possibility that has some facts to back it up.

I agree with Cubfan's insight here, to me it looks like RE was fishing for some kind of admittance that LSU was in fact an investigative role. Which was obviously only in mafia's interest to know.

im a doc

specifics?

a claim this vague in your current position will not get you anywhere but dead.

So before RE claims today that Wer's claim was complete bogus from the start, we see this nice little warning here. As though he was hoping the fakeclaim to get more consistent.

Give the name of your character and why you did NOT protect colton last night.

kind of makes sense that he is a dr. and that he did not protect colton. he seems a little new and out of it so I can see why it happened, funny, but sad too.

This is the cherry. When you see a priori RE being dubious about Wer's claim, a posteriori RE making such a strong statement about how it was unmissable Wer was scum, this is the stance in between. Trying to explain to the town how Wer could have completely screwed up as a doc even though he was kinda active.

To preemptively answer the coming "BUT I VOTED HIM!!!1!" defense, that just means I give you enough credit to be the scum on the right wagon so you should be flattered even when it's not very consistent with anything else. Your overreaction about LSU not voting Wer really makes me think you feel untouchable since you were on the wagon and feel you can get lynched any townie who wasn't.

wow you found what I claimed to be scummy, scummy. Once again that is why it is OMGUS.

[safariguy5]

Sorry RE, I find it really hard to believe that in as large a game as this, we wouldn't have a single protective role. Perhaps not a doctor, but maybe a bodyguard or something. This is amplified by the fact that we haven't lynched or nk'ed any protective roles either. In the interest of game balance, I cannot accept your declaration that there are no docs. We might have a clueless doc, but not a nonexistent one.

vote RE

[UTAlan]

basically each night he could protect one person

Just to be clear, does this make wercool a scummy doc?

[Rainbow Eater]

nobody is looking at the obvious.

1. Why did the Dr. not counter wercool.

2. Why did the Dr. not protect Colton?

[wercool]

1. I was scum
2. I was a doc

[UTAlan]

nobody is looking at the obvious.

1. Why did the Dr. not counter wercool.

2. Why did the Dr. not protect Colton?

Wercool did not kill colton, he protected his fellow scum during the night.

[Rainbow Eater]

nobody is looking at the obvious.

1. Why did the Dr. not counter wercool.

2. Why did the Dr. not protect Colton?

Wercool did not kill colton, he protected his fellow scum during the night.

that has nothing to do with what I am saying.

If there was a Dr. for our side then

1. Why did the Dr. not counter wercool.

When wercool made his claim of dr. why did no one counter. GA7 said that it would be an easy counter, yet no one did it.
[quote=GA7"]
Second, scum claiming doc is very easily counterclaimed and lynched, so being cautious to not make a mistake and lynch the real doc did make sense.[/quote]

2. why did the Dr. not protect colton after colton was proven to be a cop.

I would love to hear explanations from all of you for these besides well maybe someone forgot, or they were not on because those are all bs reasons.

My explanation is that there is no doc.

[Metsfanmax]

Sorry RE, I find it really hard to believe that in as large a game as this, we wouldn't have a single protective role. Perhaps not a doctor, but maybe a bodyguard or something. This is amplified by the fact that we haven't lynched or nk'ed any protective roles either. In the interest of game balance, I cannot accept your declaration that there are no docs. We might have a clueless doc, but not a nonexistent one.

vote RE

Okay but why is this a reason to vote for RE? RE's statements about there being no doc are simply assertions. Regardless of whether they are true or false, they shed no insight into where RE is allied. The scum obviously had a doctor that they just lost, so if RE were scum it wouldn't significantly matter to him whether there was a doctor (if there is an anonymous doctor, the scum still have to make the same moves that they would have and just hope the doctor doesn't protect whoever they target - this analysis changes if somehow the doc knows who like Darth Vader is, and is using his power to protect the most important people, but unless the doc also has investigative powers this is unlikely). Then again, I don't find RE's assertions about LSU to be particularly compelling either...

[safariguy5]

Sorry RE, I find it really hard to believe that in as large a game as this, we wouldn't have a single protective role. Perhaps not a doctor, but maybe a bodyguard or something. This is amplified by the fact that we haven't lynched or nk'ed any protective roles either. In the interest of game balance, I cannot accept your declaration that there are no docs. We might have a clueless doc, but not a nonexistent one.

vote RE

Okay but why is this a reason to vote for RE? RE's statements about there being no doc are simply assertions. Regardless of whether they are true or false, they shed no insight into where RE is allied. The scum obviously had a doctor that they just lost, so if RE were scum it wouldn't significantly matter to him whether there was a doctor (if there is an anonymous doctor, the scum still have to make the same moves that they would have and just hope the doctor doesn't protect whoever they target - this analysis changes if somehow the doc knows who like Darth Vader is, and is using his power to protect the most important people, but unless the doc also has investigative powers this is unlikely). Then again, I don't find RE's assertions about LSU to be particularly compelling either...

The fact that the scum have a doc and the town don't would strike me as odd. Why would the scum have protective roles when we wouldn't? Like I said before, I'm willing to buy that we might not have a specific doctor role. What I'm saying is that I find it odd that we would have no protective roles. No jailkeeper, no bodyguard, nothing if RE is to be believed. I simply don't believe that to be true.

[UTAlan]

What I want to know has less to do with whether the empire has a protective role or not and more to do with who the rebellion scum is. RE does seem to be especially defensive, but I don't think it's scummy enough behavior to deserve a vote.

Any other leads?

[Metsfanmax]

Sorry RE, I find it really hard to believe that in as large a game as this, we wouldn't have a single protective role. Perhaps not a doctor, but maybe a bodyguard or something. This is amplified by the fact that we haven't lynched or nk'ed any protective roles either. In the interest of game balance, I cannot accept your declaration that there are no docs. We might have a clueless doc, but not a nonexistent one.

vote RE

Okay but why is this a reason to vote for RE? RE's statements about there being no doc are simply assertions. Regardless of whether they are true or false, they shed no insight into where RE is allied. The scum obviously had a doctor that they just lost, so if RE were scum it wouldn't significantly matter to him whether there was a doctor (if there is an anonymous doctor, the scum still have to make the same moves that they would have and just hope the doctor doesn't protect whoever they target - this analysis changes if somehow the doc knows who like Darth Vader is, and is using his power to protect the most important people, but unless the doc also has investigative powers this is unlikely). Then again, I don't find RE's assertions about LSU to be particularly compelling either...

The fact that the scum have a doc and the town don't would strike me as odd. Why would the scum have protective roles when we wouldn't? Like I said before, I'm willing to buy that we might not have a specific doctor role. What I'm saying is that I find it odd that we would have no protective roles. No jailkeeper, no bodyguard, nothing if RE is to be believed. I simply don't believe that to be true.

My point is that this isn't about whether you believe RE, it's just about whether you think he's right. He's not basing his assertion on actual knowledge (how could one know that there isn't a doctor) or alliance, he's just making a guess as to the state of the game. If you think he's wrong, that doesn't mean he's scum, it just means he's wrong.

[strike wolf]

FOS: RE He's defensive and he's reached a bit on LSU but I am not convinced enough to vote him. As far as the doctor's concerned it actually is a legitimate assertion. The Doc maybe clueless or possibly he was aware of an even more important role to protect (darth vader/the Emperor) but we actually have no evidence to base that there is a doc on our side other than the argument that a game this size should have a doc.

[UTAlan]

As far as the doctor's concerned it actually is a legitimate assertion. The Doc maybe clueless or possibly he was aware of an even more important role to protect (darth vader/the Emperor) but we actually have no evidence to base that there is a doc on our side other than the argument that a game this size should have a doc.

My question is - what does it really matter? This is not going to change who we lynch today. Let's try to make progress in that area instead of debating a question we probably won't know until the game is over.

[gregwolf121]

vote count
LSU (1) RE
RE (2) ga7, safari

with 12 alive it will take 7 to lynch

[safariguy5]

What I want to know has less to do with whether the empire has a protective role or not and more to do with who the rebellion scum is. RE does seem to be especially defensive, but I don't think it's scummy enough behavior to deserve a vote.

Any other leads?

Do you have any leads? Now would be the time to share with us any nuggets of information you mined out of the last few pages.

[UTAlan]

Going back through the whole AoG lynching and Colton assassination, I couldn't find much in the way of scummy behavior. Here is what bothers me: I understand why the empire would want to lynch someone that lied about their claim, but we knowingly killed an imperial storm trooper. Any scum would be glad to join that BW under the guise of "he lied, let's lynch him!" I can't imagine scum choosing to NOT vote unless they legitimately thought he might have a godfather type role that they were unaware of. This means at least one, if not more, of the people that voted AoG is likely scum.

Voted AoG: Ga7, safariguy5, colton24, strike wolf, Rainbow Eater, wercool, LSU Tiger Josh

[LSU Tiger Josh]

How did we "knowingly" kill the storm trooper. The concept of the game isn't that difficult, but somehow he managed to get completely twisted on his role and who was who. We also needed to test colton's sanity at that point.

[strike wolf]

Going back through the whole AoG lynching and Colton assassination, I couldn't find much in the way of scummy behavior. Here is what bothers me: I understand why the empire would want to lynch someone that lied about their claim, but we knowingly killed an imperial storm trooper. Any scum would be glad to join that BW under the guise of "he lied, let's lynch him!" I can't imagine scum choosing to NOT vote unless they legitimately thought he might have a godfather type role that they were unaware of. This means at least one, if not more, of the people that voted AoG is likely scum.

Voted AoG: Ga7, safariguy5, colton24, strike wolf, Rainbow Eater, wercool, LSU Tiger Josh

Colton at the time came out a very odd time to claim for a cop and we really didn't even know for sure if the cop claim was legitimate and the result of his investigation contradicted what AoG was claiming. We didn't know that AoG was a storm trooper we had information that warned us that he might have been but the evidence that we had seemed to contradict the results of colton's investigation.