Final Fantasy VII Mafia - Shinra Corporation and Elena win

[dazza2008]

I do not support randomly lynching an inactive. To many are inactive over the holidays for that to have any benefit.

This. In fact, due to bandwaggoning an inactive when it looks like the wagon has already started and trying to jump in earlier than latter, I will unvote and vote Dazza.

Scums are normally quite active on Day 1 when there's really not much need for content, good ideas and something bright and if they do start submarine, it's normally later, when they're struggling to look pro-town. Furthermore, Vio has not been active all around and while I don't know her alignment, I'd much rather get her replaced and see how her replacement acts.

Any game I have been in with Vio she turns up with some pressure. I put her at L-9. Is that much to start getting worried about?

[Commander9]

Any game I have been in with Vio she turns up with some pressure. I put her at L-9. Is that much to start getting worried about?

Why have someone in the game would only turn up when she's about to be lynched? It's quite obvious that she wouldn't be able to contribute much by then and then EITHER get lynched or be revealed as an important power role and put a target on her back. It makes so much more sense to get her replaced...

No, it's not that I'm worried about the lynch - I'm trying to figure why'd people jump on this bandwagon when she's clearly not the only inactive and why people who have not been posting at all until the prod would just drop in to leave a vote without much more substance. All of this leaves me to conclude that it is possible that someone wants to appear active yet, without the need to contribute much and just drops in to see a bandwagon developing and... Voilà!

[chapcrap]

To VS:

How do you think we know who the double voter is? We don't even know it there is a double voter. All we know is that there is a secret voter. Might be a double, might not. Plus, you can split your vote if you are a double voter. I don't see how you could infer that you know.

[Victor Sullivan]

To VS:

How do you think we know who the double voter is? We don't even know it there is a double voter. All we know is that there is a secret voter. Might be a double, might not. Plus, you can split your vote if you are a double voter. I don't see how you could infer that you know.

I have an educated guess to say the least. And it's highly unlikely that we're dealing with anything but a doublevoter.

-Sully

[Commander9]

I have an educated guess to say the least. And it's highly unlikely that we're dealing with anything but a doublevoter.

-Sully

I would tend to agree with this - a secret vote normally is shows up as a double-voter in the end. It's not confirmed, but indeed very likely. I also have a few ideas who it could be, but I see absolutely no reason to share them as of now.

[ghostly447]

Alright guys, just to let you know, I will hopefully begin being active tomorrow or the next day. I have been prodded and wanted to drop in and wish everyone a merry christmas (late) and a happy new year.

Unvote (it was a self vote as a joke)


Talk in a very short while!

Adam

[killboy108]

Also, just looked at said roll call and it's violet's turn. Has she posted anything yet?

... Wait a minute. Check out violet's profile. This person hasn't even posted in a forum yet, so how can s/he possibly even be involved in this game?

Unrelatedly, s/he somehow has a tournament victory even though s/he has never played a tournament game. That is so weird.

unvote vote violet if only cuz it's no use to have a person around who doesn't say anything.

OMG Agentcom, are you serious???!!???

I just sent you a pm the other week with MrPipes, so it's not like you never heard of me before. So I don't know what all of that was about.

I couldn't have even possibly joined this game, without an entry post, which is on page 2. You could have found me from either page two, or even in the OP. Or you could just check your inbox.


Thank you to everyone who took the time to explain the mix-up to agentcom.

I'm sure most have heard this story before...but....once and for all......

When I first joined this site, I wanted my screen name to be Violet. That has been my alias for years. Well, unfortunately it was already taken. So I almost signed up as Teloiv, but didn't really want that. In the end, I decided that if I used a capital i, it couldn't be distinguished from a lowercase L. That was the closest I could possibly get to having the user name I wanted. So just pretend the name is Violet. But, I understand that it does confuse many people. The imposter Violet (as I like to call her), has MANY of my mafia roles, and pm's and medals, etc, etc. Thank goodness she's inactive.

But even back when I started my own clan- they initially gave the clan to her instead of me. Now, you'd THINK it would be easy for them to understand the mistake, and reverse the privileges to me. But NO- it was like pulling teeth for them to let me into MY own forum.

So yeah, the confusing name is really a pain sometimes. But I understand that it happens.

Anyways, sorry to get so off-topic. I know my post has nothing whatsoever to do with the game. I do need to catch up and read as I hadn't checked this thread since Friday.

Ok, so everone's has been proded yeah?....

"sorry to get so off-topic. I know my post has nothing whatsoever to do with the game. I do need to catch up and read as I hadn't checked this thread since Friday"...

Nice, so Violet know's that's were' waiting for Him/Her(Maybe a dude pretending to be a chick...I mean come on, what chick would ever be on CC anyway....ask you're girl friend if you don't believe me) to make his/her comments on the "roll call"...and she/he says "just need to catch up"....

Well it's now 2012 & there's no new posts... so can we replace him/her rather than voting him/her off? (What if he/she is an important role?)

Sorry to sound like an asshole, but I am an asshole

(& sorry to Violet if you are indeed a chick)

[drake_259]

Yes violet is not the only inactive, you say wait till she gets replaced, yes good idea but then we will most likely run out of replacements and we are gonna have a few.

Anyway yes just because there is to many player to replace ain't a reason just to lynch her but is one to vote for to get some information out of her what so ever. No matter how small she gives us, we do need something from her.

And just because we're waiting for her to get replaced is no reason to not try get her back in for that info. Don't nessersary need her to claim but we do need some talking that's on topic.

Fastposted

[DoomYoshi]

Well right now, with the deadline where it is, the day will likely will result in NL. This is partially to be expected with a game of this size. However, if activity picks up, we can bring the deadline back and get something going. Vio has been a deadend in the rollcall, and as Comm pointed out, it doesn't make sense to pressure her right now. So should we just skip her in the rollcall and continue moving along to try to save some activity and try to keep the day going?

In the meantime, I will note that wildwilliam was next on the list. I would like to present a serious case on him now.

I must admit I have kinda lost interest in this game since the whole "Roll/Role Call" incident.

Ok, so you lost interest. Please explain how we can help you gain interest in this game again. The way this statement is phrased it makes it seem as if the rollcall was the reason you lost interest. Is this true?

There is only 1 reason I can think of why you would want to make a list of people you find scummy when there is nothing to go on but joke votes.

What is that 1 reason? I would call that one reason making a case. This is the only way cases are made on day 1. I am just trying to spread it amongst everyone. We only had jokevotes and flavor spec. There is nowhere else for cases to come from. Where do you suggest we get the cases from? Are we just going to sit around waiting for scum to declare themself?

I could understand if we were at day 7 or 8, close to finishing, and needed to go through details to make our last lynch. this would be beneficial because you would actually have more to analyze, like vote placement, non vote placement, past band wagons, post with meaning. I do not however see any merit in 1 person making a list of people then saying we all need to post who we think is scummy. What would the basis be on? 7 pages of dribble where we were joke voting and discussing characters?

Absolutely. You have to work with what you have.

If your point was to make everyone active in this game, then that really hurts town. People not posting gives you something to go on. Forcing people to post takes this away. now everyone becomes active and no one can submarine. If no one can submarine, no one can be called out and pressured for submarining. If you can't pressure a person, they can't be cracked and caught.

A case based on inactivity is a terrible case. It does give you something to go on, but it is a worse case than say, somebody defending their scum buddy. Now you are saying we can't pressure people so they can't be caught? However, by listing who we think are scummy, we ARE pressuring people, so your argument doesn't hold. In one paragraph, you say pressuring people is pointless in the next you say we need to pressure people.


And now we have moved onto I L i l and the difference in letters. I am pretty sure we have gotten way off base.

And what are you going to do to help this situation? Complaining doesn't solve anything.


Please tell me diary entries are for fun so I can vote doom

This has been answered and yet still you have not voted for me. Are you a liar now?

I already replied to this before, but wild never responded. As such, I will unvote vote wildwilliam

[DoomYoshi]

Now I need to address this post and only vote for me. Sorry about the double post.

@wildwilliam:

Cases on day 1 always come ex nihilo. They have to come from the discussion. Even if that discussion is just jokes. However, if the discussion starts to die, there is even less to build a case from. So, somebody has to stick their neck out and present a case. But why should only 1 person have to stick their neck out? Why not make everyone build their best case?

I am not going to bother arguing with you about catching scum through submarining (but you are wrong about that). Instead, I will note that you say the rollcall hurts town. However, you fos me for trying to appear pro town.

So, I am trying to appear pro town by hurting town?

wlel in my opinion it was still early day 1, and most of the chat was about the game FFVII which most of us haven't even played, so that left a mayority allready out of the conversation, because simply we had no clue what it was all about, and then you came in with a rollcall, on early day 1 in the middle of a jokevote and flavor period?

Ok, so the majority were out of the conversation. Now the majority have no excuse, now the conversation is about the mafia game. How is this a problem? I don't think it was the middles of the jokevote period. I think it was time for jokevotes to end. They had run their course and people were starting to lose interest. When would you rather I come in with a rollcall?

i mean, we didn't even really start the game yet and i have never ever seen anyone call for a rollcall espeially not this early and i didn't expect somethng like it either.

Ok, so you never saw it before. It is a concept which I think could work in any game when activity dies down. If it was an established strategy would you be more acceptant of it?

i think you're really trying to force something and possibly even trying to confuse some people. i really think that is a scummy move.

Yes, I am trying to force discussion and cases. I am not trying to confuse people.

The only case against me here is the one that comm9 made. It is possible that I could use this as an excuse to appear townish. This is not true. However, comm9 (and presumably others) realize that in order for it to make me appear townish, it must actually benefit town. I will defend the rollcall as a strategy, until someone can make a coherent point that proves that it harms town.

[Commander9]

Yes violet is not the only inactive, you say wait till she gets replaced, yes good idea but then we will most likely run out of replacements and we are gonna have a few.

Anyway yes just because there is to many player to replace ain't a reason just to lynch her but is one to vote for to get some information out of her what so ever. No matter how small she gives us, we do need something from her.

And just because we're waiting for her to get replaced is no reason to not try get her back in for that info. Don't nessersary need her to claim but we do need some talking that's on topic.

Fastposted

And what exactly would we find out from this? At best, we'd get a claim and get to know the character. At worst, we'd lynch someone even without the claim? There's been a long, long time after any sort of indication that Vio would even try to get back into the game... And if she doesn't care about the game, she may not even come here to claim. I'm sure as hell ain't throwing away our lynch for that sort of BS because that not only gives us no information... It could actually deprive it as I'm sure at least a few mafia members are on the BW and that could give them a relatively free pass. Replacement would be the best, modkilling is acceptable should no replacements be found, but hell no on the lynch.

The only case against me here is the one that comm9 made. It is possible that I could use this as an excuse to appear townish. This is not true. However, comm9 (and presumably others) realize that in order for it to make me appear townish, it must actually benefit town. I will defend the rollcall as a strategy, until someone can make a coherent point that proves that it harms town.

Just to address the last issue... I think it's both beneficial and harming to town and in the end, they somewhat cancel themselves out. It's beneficial as everyone has to show up and post something, which should spark some sort of activity and possible scum tells. It's detrimental due to the fact that with so little substance still in the thread and it still being day 1, there's very little one can tell to actually be helpful, so scums have an easy way of showing up, leaving a few quick thoughts and leaving. As I've noted before, just solely on this, there's really no case against you... yet. The only thing that I've pointed out was that it could be a good way for a scum to appear town, but that doesn't mean a townie would not do it, thus it's really not getting us anywhere and your pressure would come down to the odds... Which I'd rather maximize rather than going blindly by just one thing like that.

[wildwilliam]

Now I need to address this post and only vote for me. Sorry about the double post.

@wildwilliam:

Cases on day 1 always come ex nihilo. They have to come from the discussion. Even if that discussion is just jokes. However, if the discussion starts to die, there is even less to build a case from. So, somebody has to stick their neck out and present a case. But why should only 1 person have to stick their neck out? Why not make everyone build their best case?

I am not going to bother arguing with you about catching scum through submarining (but you are wrong about that). Instead, I will note that you say the rollcall hurts town. However, you fos me for trying to appear pro town.

So, I am trying to appear pro town by hurting town?

wlel in my opinion it was still early day 1, and most of the chat was about the game FFVII which most of us haven't even played, so that left a mayority allready out of the conversation, because simply we had no clue what it was all about, and then you came in with a rollcall, on early day 1 in the middle of a jokevote and flavor period?

Ok, so the majority were out of the conversation. Now the majority have no excuse, now the conversation is about the mafia game. How is this a problem? I don't think it was the middles of the jokevote period. I think it was time for jokevotes to end. They had run their course and people were starting to lose interest. When would you rather I come in with a rollcall?

i mean, we didn't even really start the game yet and i have never ever seen anyone call for a rollcall espeially not this early and i didn't expect somethng like it either.

Ok, so you never saw it before. It is a concept which I think could work in any game when activity dies down. If it was an established strategy would you be more acceptant of it?

i think you're really trying to force something and possibly even trying to confuse some people. i really think that is a scummy move.

Yes, I am trying to force discussion and cases. I am not trying to confuse people.

The only case against me here is the one that comm9 made. It is possible that I could use this as an excuse to appear townish. This is not true. However, comm9 (and presumably others) realize that in order for it to make me appear townish, it must actually benefit town. I will defend the rollcall as a strategy, until someone can make a coherent point that proves that it harms town.

I already have. Just because you do not want to believe it does not make it so. nice OMGUS vote by the way.

[DoomYoshi]

So you can't address any of the points I raised against you wild?

[edocsil]

So you can't address any of the points I raised against you wild?

I am going to Unvote Vote Wild. I personally don't have any sort of serious opinion on Doom's argument, but his argument was solid enough that it cannot be completely dismissed like that. That was unprofessional and voteworthy IMO.

[MoB Deadly]

Fos WildWilliam

You need to rebuttal Dooms' case against you. You cant reply with a 1 line post and just let you go without answering anything. He has some valid points in the post.

I want to explain my vote on vio a bit more here. No I do not think voting an inactive is the way to go, I would definitely prefer a replace or a mod kill. There are a lot of other inactives with the holidays as expected. My vote isn't on her to lynch, my vote is on her to participate in the roll call and to keep her involved. As soon as she posts something that is contributing I will remove my vote.

[MoB Deadly]

Grr double post

I didn't care which inactive we "pushed" first but we can't just complain about the inactivity and let it stall out, we do need to put votes on inactives to keep players coming back as well. Do I think they are good candidates to lynch though? No, unless we see a case of deliberate submarining.

[chapcrap]

I would also point out the fact that Vio has been active in the game she is the mod. Not being active here, after votes for her and a prod is suspicious.

[slowreactor]

I would also point out the fact that Vio has been active in the game she is the mod. Not being active here, after votes for her and a prod is suspicious.

To be fair, I have been fairly inactive here as well. I barely have any internet access, so when I do get a chance to come on, I make sure that the game I am modding is priority #1. I also have 0 games going at the moment though because I knew I would have very limited access.

[Commander9]

I would also point out the fact that Vio has been active in the game she is the mod. Not being active here, after votes for her and a prod is suspicious.

And that's also not unprecedented - I've seen that before. This is the main reason why I want to see her replaced/modkilled (preferably replaced) rather than going for her as our lynch of day 1. It gives us virtually nothing. Since activity picked up and Rodion only did a soft deadline, I believe he'd extend the day a bit longer... So get Vio replaced/modkilled and then continue with our Day 1 as we were before.

[strike wolf]

I would also point out the fact that Vio has been active in the game she is the mod. Not being active here, after votes for her and a prod is suspicious.

This is standard for vio. She tends to put her effort into the game she's modding than the games she's participating in. The only validity I see in the vio case over the other inactives is that she's currently supposed to be on the roll call. That's not enough for me to warrant it extra attention given the holidays and high number of inactives and semi-actives.

@wild: Umm...OMGus or not you did not really answer any questions that Doom brought forward. Either quote the post wehre you did address doom's respons to you or answer the points he made. A one liner like that isn't doing anything.

[wildwilliam]

@wild: Umm...OMGus or not you did not really answer any questions that Doom brought forward. Either quote the post wehre you did address doom's respons to you or answer the points he made. A one liner like that isn't doing anything.

So if I make up a strawman argument against you, one that you feel you have already responded to and have already explained, that means you are forced to answer it? That is nothing but a waste of time

Well right now, with the deadline where it is, the day will likely will result in NL. This is partially to be expected with a game of this size. However, if activity picks up, we can bring the deadline back and get something going. Vio has been a deadend in the rollcall, and as Comm pointed out, it doesn't make sense to pressure her right now. So should we just skip her in the rollcall and continue moving along to try to save some activity and try to keep the day going? (I would like to point out that Vio is still modding her mafia game, yet you feel she needs to be skipped?

In the meantime, I will note that wildwilliam was next on the list. I would like to present a serious case on him now.

Funny because I already did my Roll Call, and I pointed out that you were the most scummy person I could find, if victor stopped his "diary entries"

I must admit I have kinda lost interest in this game since the whole "Roll/Role Call" incident.

There is only 1 reason I can think of why you would want to make a list of people you find scummy when there is nothing to go on but joke votes. I could understand if we were at day 7 or 8, close to finishing, and needed to go through details to make our last lynch. this would be beneficial because you would actually have more to analyze, like vote placement, non vote placement, past band wagons, post with meaning. I do not however see any merit in 1 person making a list of people then saying we all need to post who we think is scummy. What would the basis be on? 7 pages of dribble where we were joke voting and discussing characters?

If your point was to make everyone active in this game, then that really hurts town. People not posting gives you something to go on. Forcing people to post takes this away. now everyone becomes active and no one can submarine. If no one can submarine, no one can be called out and pressured for submarining. If you can't pressure a person, they can't be cracked and caught.

I guess it was beneficial for people who do not have English as their first language to learn how convoluted English really is and learn a little more about how words can have multiple meanings.

Definition/meaning of the work roll http://www.bing.com/Dictionary/search?q=define+roll&qpvt=roll+definition&FORM=DTPDIA

Definition/meaning of the work role http://www.bing.com/Dictionary/search?q=define+role&go=&form=QB

And now we have moved onto I L i l and the difference in letters. I am pretty sure we have gotten way off base.

Anyways, back to my reason why you would want to make a list this early: you want to appear pro town. I really want to vote doom, but there is someone I want to vote more.so FOS DOOM

unvote vote Victor

You have posted as if you are Tifa Lockhart or Aerith Gainsborough. you can't be both.

Please tell me diary entries are for fun so I can vote doom

Remember this post? YEs I did my roll call, and participated, yet you want to give others who are here a pass?

I must admit I have kinda lost interest in this game since the whole "Roll/Role Call" incident.

Ok, so you lost interest. Please explain how we can help you gain interest in this game again. The way this statement is phrased it makes it seem as if the rollcall was the reason you lost interest. Is this true?

This is true, I want nothing forced because then you do not see people true intentions. They are covered by being forced to post something and can build strawman cases against innocent town folk that get ridden to a lynch. I am a firm believer that you can find more in what people do and what they do not say then in how active they are. I also believe that inactivity, not totally, but a good bit, can lead you to peoples roles, whether they be town or mafia. So Yes I lost interest and still have with this stupid roll call. I believe it ruins the game. I would like the game to play out, I would like inactive's to be noted as inactive and not forced to say anything. If you read before the roll call, I was very active, so the fact that the roll call would call out inactives had no effect on me.

There is only 1 reason I can think of why you would want to make a list of people you find scummy when there is nothing to go on but joke votes.

What is that 1 reason? I would call that one reason making a case. This is the only way cases are made on day 1. I am just trying to spread it amongst everyone. We only had jokevotes and flavor spec. There is nowhere else for cases to come from. Where do you suggest we get the cases from? Are we just going to sit around waiting for scum to declare themself?

First off how can you make a case on joke votes? like I said I could understand if we were deep into the game and had a few days worth of activity. Then you could build a case. Here you are doing nothing but going ion a Salem witch hunt. If you burn them and they die they are human, but if they fly away they are a witch. So you are not making any real case. all you are doing is increasing activity, which can be better done though votes. AS I said before, The only reason to make a list like that is to appear town. Maybe you are not mafia, but maybe you are a SK.

I could understand if we were at day 7 or 8, close to finishing, and needed to go through details to make our last lynch. this would be beneficial because you would actually have more to analyze, like vote placement, non vote placement, past band wagons, post with meaning. I do not however see any merit in 1 person making a list of people then saying we all need to post who we think is scummy. What would the basis be on? 7 pages of dribble where we were joke voting and discussing characters?

Absolutely. You have to work with what you have.

You are right, and right not we have a few joke votes, someone making diary entries, and someone who made a list to try and show they are town.

unvote victor

no need to keep my vote there. he said he was trying to add flavor to the game. The only thing I ask is keep it within you character, when you start to bring in characters that aren't yours, you tend to get people excited.

If your point was to make everyone active in this game, then that really hurts town. People not posting gives you something to go on. Forcing people to post takes this away. now everyone becomes active and no one can submarine. If no one can submarine, no one can be called out and pressured for submarining. If you can't pressure a person, they can't be cracked and caught.

A case based on inactivity is a terrible case. It does give you something to go on, but it is a worse case than say, somebody defending their scum buddy. Now you are saying we can't pressure people so they can't be caught? However, by listing who we think are scummy, we ARE pressuring people, so your argument doesn't hold. In one paragraph, you say pressuring people is pointless in the next you say we need to pressure people.

The case isn't based on inactivity, and I am not saying pressuring people is bad. I am saying the way you pressure people. Here again you are twisting my words. Pressure from votes gives a lot more information than 1 solo person making a list and claiming that if you do not follow I will pin you as scum. Voting pressure not only pressures the inactive but it REQUIRES VOTES which is another way to get information! AND YOU ARE TAKING THAT AWAY

And now we have moved onto I L i l and the difference in letters. I am pretty sure we have gotten way off base.

And what are you going to do to help this situation? Complaining doesn't solve anything.

not complaining pointing out a fact. people are no longer talking about your stupid little list, except you might I add, moved onto other things.

Please tell me diary entries are for fun so I can vote doom

This has been answered and yet still you have not voted for me. Are you a liar now?

No I believe victor was a like L-9 so I never felt the need to remove it or change it because we were on break and no one was active in this game. I did not know there was such a rush. are we under deadline? has new evidence been given? but you are right.

Please tell me diary entries are for fun so I can vote doom

vote DoomYoshi

I already replied to this before, but wild never responded. As such, I will unvote vote wildwilliam

That is because I have already answered them. If you ask me a question I already answered, I will probably not answer it. Stop twisting my words to benefit your witch hunt.

[Commander9]

Strike/Edoc:

I now finally understand why you've said before that a few of my and spiesr's/herk's was a pain to read

[MoB Deadly]

I find it odd that William with his first post, only posts a one liner against Doom, then we say something about it, now its like he completely flipped and is highly defensive, shouting in caps and in large font. I find it odd he goes from one extreme to another

[Commander9]

I find it odd that William with his first post, only posts a one liner against Doom, then we say something about it, now its like he completely flipped and is highly defensive, shouting in caps and in large font. I find it odd he goes from one extreme to another

Well, notice how many people before that put pressure on him to answer, so he really didn't have a choice. His tone changes are notable, though.

[DoomYoshi]

Point 1: I suggest you research the proper definition of a straw man argument. You are using it incorrectly here.

I am a firm believer that you can find more in what people do and what they do not say then in how active they are. I also believe that inactivity, not totally, but a good bit, can lead you to peoples roles, whether they be town or mafia.

If your point was to make everyone active in this game, then that really hurts town. People not posting gives you something to go on. Forcing people to post takes this away. now everyone becomes active and no one can submarine. If no one can submarine, no one can be called out and pressured for submarining. If you can't pressure a person, they can't be cracked and caught.

Is this not a direct contradiction? Quote 1 says that activity is not a basis for a case. Quote 2 says no case can be made except against submariners.

Now it is time to LAL.

You still have not addressed the main point of where the cases are going to come from. If they are not forced, and nobody says anything, then someone has to volunteer or the game dies. If you can't build a case on jokevotes, then how does day 1 get started? I haven't changed anything about day 1 mechanics. All I did was notice a lag in activity, and force activity up again. The plan got sideswiped by the holidays, but for the most part it worked (for a bit).

I really don't appreciate your tone. It borders on insulting. Actually, it is insulting.