[Official] Wheel of Time:EotW [8/14] D4:Twisted Pattern

[StorrZerg]

@mets

Lol, honest voting history. You stole their vote and you somehow expect "honest" votes out of them?

Stole is a harsh word, they traded it. And I'm doing with it as i see fit. Making them accountable for their vote, they want to call someone scummy and would normally vote that person, they should be allowed to do so. Voting history is valuable information, If people just kept trading me vote to avoid being on lynches thats not acceptable.
"whoo i didnt lynch joey, i mean i didnt have a vote yesterday!"

You have no read on them, why would you ever listen to them. (Apart from the above reasons, which I showed are wrong.)

You didnt show anything as wrong. you didnt prove anything other than arguing schismatics. Hence why I want them to be voting and still using their vote, because votes are important in this game.

Anyway, how is this relevant to the question of why they should have control over their vote? This was exactly the fucking point I was making; they got something in return for losing their vote. If you give them their vote and they still get the item, then you're not only ruining the point of the role, you're also playing the game super dishonestly.

SO? im changing the play, im making them accountable for their vote. One simply does not trade a vote away and absolve themselves from helping lynch someone.
Right now, im getting upset with you, is it right for me to putt votes on you and bully you into a claim, just because im 1 person who controls more votes than someone else? give you a hint, no lol. The fact that you are trying to push what im doing is dishonest, can't even man can't even.

You aren't actually forcing them to do anything. What are you going to do if they don't vote? Use their vote against them? Those two votes will get you real far buddy.

What do we do when people don't vote? We as town hold them accountable. We would do the same thing. This isn't rocket science, if someone isn't pushing or voting you call them out for playing the sidelines and not helping. Stop being stubborn.

You trying to spin this to become about me makes you look like a prick.

because it was an absolutely useless comment. Has no value of input on his alignment. That was the whole trend earlier with you, useless complaining comments with no direction, and no help to solving the game.

the way i see it mets, you can continue to bicker with me, you know im happy to do that, or you can help make sure those who traded votes with me are held accountable with their votes, just like you would make sure anyone is accountable this game. or any game.

[StorrZerg]

@dd

The way he has been handling it is aggressively asserting that he is town. Something I believe mafia would do more than town (although this is Storr we're talking about). He hasn't been under any pressure so I don't see the point in reaffirming in every post "hey guys I'm town btw"... his play should speak for itself.

while its great you are limiting my play to aggressively asserting i'm town. I've also given several town reads at this point. Pushed cases as well. Drove discussion. My play does speak for itself as Town-StorrZerg.

Nobody asked about lynching me, why even mention it? And again he tries to reaffirm himself town (barking up the wrong tree). And Storr why the explanation could be "obvious", it could also be you playing mind games and accusing whoever took the vote as mafia and then going back on it based on timing issues. I also do not like that you apparently didn't know that you have this power to take votes from people in exchange for an ability.

Yeah because that whole streaker insta vote you that wasn't an omgus vote, didnt have anything to do with me making the comment about you not being lynched. Stop being blind, you got called out and a vote was placed on you, I defended you. I absolutely know people can trade me. THis was never up to debate, the issue was i received no information that anyone HAD traded me, hence when hotshot said he didn't have his vote, and i had not gotten a pm stating that he visited me, The logical assumption is that mafia must have it. He specifically said "someone else controls it" He didn't say he traded it. I assumed stolen, since it wasn't me, since i had no pm saying other wise. This has been explained in great detail, and you keep throwing in random oddities that have no basis.

The answer is yes, but (as you said) could be a ploy to buy town cred. I know you are good at this game and it seems like something you would do... that is a compliment btw (but also I get a scummy vibe).

Fantastic then, help make sure those that do trade votes are held accountable.

Yet again ANOTHER reaffirmation that you are town (and you said confirmed at that). You are not confirmed town in any sense, at least in my book I can't speak for others.

yeah so at this point if it isn't obvious, im clearly messing with you. Just a heads up. (btw im still confirmed town cause my role is town duh)

And yet another post saying he has proved himself town. I don't know if anyone else finds these as scummy as I do, but it seems like every single post he says it.

Might be because i have a higher tendency to scream i'm town when town. IDK maybe you should reread some games. Or maybe i do it all the time regardless of my alignment. Maybe you should take your thoughtful comment, and check to see if that bothers anyone else who has played more than a few games with me.

Again, why even bring this up? Nobody has pressured me or pushed me as scum at all. The only time people have talked about me is my activity during the first few days. It doesn't make sense to bring this up unless you're trying to avoid looking like an OMGUS case (which nobody would accuse you of if you didn't say it) or if you want to placate me so I stop pushing at you.

Again someone did call and push you. (streaker) O I voted on you(wow), o so did hotshot. You did push it back, but i still stand by im not interested in pushing you. Like it or not, more people dont want me dead today, and i can easily see a wagon forming on you. This is partly why you are town, because you are oblivious to what i am. Scum are going to be more likely to believe my role, and find a harder time trying to lynch me because they know the role is real. This is why i don't see you as mafia. Couple that with the effort your inputing on the case, while misguided puts you to town. You are not trying to coast this game, you are pushing your ground, standing your ground. I'm town reading you, and i don't want you lynched.

You don't quite have that much sway over the lynch yet And also your mafia partners would be people who would not want to for you and therefore (by your logic) would be willing to trade their voting power.

Talk about actions this game instead of fairy land. 2 people visited me and claimed why, did you dislike the reasoning, did you like it. Do you find either to be scum? Why doesn't streaker trade me if he knows what i am and im with him?

This still doesn't change my stance on Storr and my vote will remain for now. I urge other people to vote for Storr as I believe his claim or his lynch will provide the most information. I know some of y'all have been suspicious of him at some point and others just want to get someone (madmitch) to claim so that we have one.

Again you are not going to get enough, not even close to a majority. You need 7 people to lynch me. That means i need 8 to ensure i'm not lynched.

I control 3 votes, Mtamb won't vote for me, Town reads me
Wing isn't voting for me, Leans town on me, and sees my possible claim as town, at worst 3rd party
Ib isn't voting for me, has logic behind keeping me alive + im probably a strong town role
Streaker won't vote, i mean you know his reason
Marashu town reads me for how i handled the situation

Thats 8 right there dd5. The point of this is to try and get you focused some place else. Forcing my claim isn't good because you will force me to claim what items i handed out, meaning mafia have more information about 3 people now. Not just me. 2 independent people confirmed their separate items are town sided, mets complains about this term, so ill put it this way, the items cannot hinder town. The power each one got, are almost always town roles.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

is it right for me to putt votes on you and bully you into a claim,

Well you could if thats what he wants

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

Heads up, I have two days training tomorrow and friday so will be posting less than normal.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

Storr that is really rather a lot of text to produce in counterargument when only one person thinks you are worth voting for. Did it really take that long to say, "But why do these people read me town, please pursue other avenues"

[StorrZerg]

Because I town read him, and is worth responding to.

[Metsfanmax]

@ Storr I traded my vote with you fair and square you do not have to leave it on Virus,you can put it any where you want that was the deal

That doesn't get you out of obligation. you will use your vote, or be lynched. You called him scummy, so i put your vote on virus.

You will make accusations, you will formal people, and yes this is me being manipulative mets, because it is for the good of town to make people accountable.

And what of your own accountability? By refusing to place these three votes on the person you think is most likely scum, you obfuscate your own motives. That is scum motivation. The Storr I know would jump at the chance to use his three votes to bully someone into claiming. This whole act you are putting smells incredibly out of character for you and so I think you are not town, likely mafia.

Vote Storr

[Talapus]

Again you are not going to get enough, not even close to a majority. You need 7 people to lynch me. That means i need 8 to ensure i'm not lynched.

I really dislike this comment storr. You probably won't get enough votes to lynch you that's true. But so far this game you have been extremely vocal about how town you are, how much town needs you and your abilities, and about how you will ensure your votes help push discussion elsewhere besides you.

If you are so town(Which I still lean more a third party rather than town with your abilities at this point...no offense.) Why keep being so incredibly vocal about how strong you are? Scum are going to hone in on you hard tonight. Not to mention the more people that visit you tomorrow the more votes you control. You can swing this game in town or mafias favor on a whim and regardless of your reassurances you won't that certainly doesn't prove it can't happen. Honestly at this point as no one knows your alignment, the longer you are in the game the bigger the threat you could become to everyone.

Again I'm not saying you will, but the potential is more than there. I think the concerns people are putting out there about your constant vocalization are very legitimate.

[StorrZerg]

@ Storr I traded my vote with you fair and square you do not have to leave it on Virus,you can put it any where you want that was the deal

That doesn't get you out of obligation. you will use your vote, or be lynched. You called him scummy, so i put your vote on virus.

You will make accusations, you will formal people, and yes this is me being manipulative mets, because it is for the good of town to make people accountable.

And what of your own accountability? By refusing to place these three votes on the person you think is most likely scum, you obfuscate your own motives. That is scum motivation. The Storr I know would jump at the chance to use his three votes to bully someone into claiming. This whole act you are putting smells incredibly out of character for you and so I think you are not town, likely mafia.

Vote Storr

The fact you think this is out of character is pathetic.
I don't need to walk around and force votes where I need to. I can lead lynches normally. I don't need a handicap to lynch people lol. Not to mention you know I prefer discussion over claims.


Not to mention what of hotshot madmitch, they like the items they got, what's the harm in seeing how it works out.

Or how about wing thinking he knows my character.

[Endgame422]

Mets ill say the same thing i said to dd.
I dont like storrs play here either but he is correct that we wont get him lynched today.
Until mitch/HS confirm their powers tomorrow its giving scum alot of info and i think thats enough to keep 5 people off voting for him. That plus his block of 3 and the fact that if he is scum his team(2ish) will not vote for him either so realistically he only needs to convince 3 townies and boom,majority.
Its fairly scary if he is scum as they could effectively control a huge portion of the vote if even just 1 townie visits storr. But i think we will find out by tomorrow. If hes town and really is the candyman scum will probably want him dead before all of town is getting a "powerful town power" each night.
Also like tal said he is likely to get hit from both sides so he may be investigated/vigged/followed/jailed etc and i think the picture should be much clearer tomorrow,if its not(HS/mitch dead) no night info then noone visit storr and we lynch him.
We dont even need to pressure storr as he will just clam up "for towns sake"
Although your case(and dds) seem pretty towny to me i just think pushing for storr right now just basically takes more votes away from lynching possible scum and effectively puts storr and his voting block in charge of who gets lynched today.
Id rather lynch one of the people who storr listed wont vote against him tbh.
Fpd by storr

[Iron Butterfly]

@ Storr I traded my vote with you fair and square you do not have to leave it on Virus,you can put it any where you want that was the deal

That doesn't get you out of obligation. you will use your vote, or be lynched. You called him scummy, so i put your vote on virus.

You will make accusations, you will formal people, and yes this is me being manipulative mets, because it is for the good of town to make people accountable.

And what of your own accountability? By refusing to place these three votes on the person you think is most likely scum, you obfuscate your own motives. That is scum motivation. The Storr I know would jump at the chance to use his three votes to bully someone into claiming. This whole act you are putting smells incredibly out of character for you and so I think you are not town, likely mafia.

Vote Storr

A Valid point free of walls of text. Something I have been thinking about as well is that with 14 players you do not influence the tide of the game with your votes. Trying to act as if the players still have a vote after it has been taken seems silly and forced. The day has not been about scum hunting per say but about Storr and how people feel about his day power.

The thing is Storr really had no choice but to claim. If he lynched someone with his three votes and they flipped Town....well it would have been a bitch saying "sorry guys but I am really Town."

So the question is if storr uses his three votes and there is a mis lynch are you willing to forgive him for the mislynch? Should we forgive him? Does he now have a higher degree of accountability because he has others votes and votes wrong?

That seems to be the extension of Mets argument if you wish to look at all the aspects of his point.

[StorrZerg]

@ib, which is why people need to be held accountable for votes, even if they give votes to me. Cause mafia will trade me, to see what's going on.

The only pretending or act with people trading a vote, is if towe doesn't hold traders accountable.

What happens if I use a majority of votes to lynch mafia, what do I learn after, nothing much since I did the work. I'm playing the game as normal, as if I didn't control the votes.

[madmitch]

why is everone attacking storr? what would of happened if I had of picked someone else and had the same offer and made the same choice would you attack them or is it just storr?

[Talapus]

why is everone attacking storr? what would of happened if I had of picked someone else and had the same offer and made the same choice would you attack them or is it just storr?

Absolutely, it's a very valid concern when one person could potentially have the power to control the votes in the game. You should be concerned as well there slacker. It isn't personal, I'm not claiming storr will use it for his own wants and desires, but any town needs to realize it's a real possibility. The fact that you aren;t concerned is slightly alarming. Though your whole playstyle in this and the last game I played with you was odd so I really can't tell if this is normal you or not.

[StorrZerg]

I'm only as powerful as the amount of people who visit me. It can easily be arranged so that a set number visit to get items, so that I remain in check.

[Iron Butterfly]

@ Storr I traded my vote with you fair and square you do not have to leave it on Virus,you can put it any where you want that was the deal

That doesn't get you out of obligation. you will use your vote, or be lynched. You called him scummy, so i put your vote on virus.

You will make accusations, you will formal people, and yes this is me being manipulative mets, because it is for the good of town to make people accountable.

And what of your own accountability? By refusing to place these three votes on the person you think is most likely scum, you obfuscate your own motives. That is scum motivation. The Storr I know would jump at the chance to use his three votes to bully someone into claiming. This whole act you are putting smells incredibly out of character for you and so I think you are not town, likely mafia.

Vote Storr

Pretty safe vote if your mafia dontcha think? If your Town why waste it?

Besides Storr who are your other reads?

[HotShot53]

I can understand storr wanting us to give our opinions on where our votes should go... as he says, without that we could just give him our votes every day, sit back and not take any credit/blame for anything. Obviously he takes less credit/blame himself, but he still has his own vote and opinions, so it's not like he's doing nothing.

Mets ill say the same thing i said to dd.
I dont like storrs play here either but he is correct that we wont get him lynched today.
Until mitch/HS confirm their powers tomorrow its giving scum alot of info and i think thats enough to keep 5 people off voting for him. That plus his block of 3 and the fact that if he is scum his team(2ish) will not vote for him either so realistically he only needs to convince 3 townies and boom,majority.
Its fairly scary if he is scum as they could effectively control a huge portion of the vote if even just 1 townie visits storr. But i think we will find out by tomorrow. If hes town and really is the candyman scum will probably want him dead before all of town is getting a "powerful town power" each night.
Also like tal said he is likely to get hit from both sides so he may be investigated/vigged/followed/jailed etc and i think the picture should be much clearer tomorrow,if its not(HS/mitch dead) no night info then noone visit storr and we lynch him.
We dont even need to pressure storr as he will just clam up "for towns sake"
Although your case(and dds) seem pretty towny to me i just think pushing for storr right now just basically takes more votes away from lynching possible scum and effectively puts storr and his voting block in charge of who gets lynched today.
Id rather lynch one of the people who storr listed wont vote against him tbh.
Fpd by storr

You agree storr won't get lynched today... so you favor just lynching one of his supporters so you have an easier time lynching him tomorrow. Do you really think storr is scum? Do you think any of his "supporters" are scum? I still think my vote is good where it's at on endgame

[Marashu]

Did anyone visit tal?

I did. We had a pleasant chat, and that's it.

I don't feel like I need a claim from Storr or mitch D1. Looking at the arguments about Storr, I feel like dd raised some really good points, but I also feel like mets' points were off, somehow. And the vote post - Storr's use of the votes is, I think, responsible. He still has his own vote, which he is using, and at this point all this discussion has him under such strong scrutiny regarding the votes that it would be difficult for him to pull one over on 13 other people. Right now, my big concern is that we've been focusing on Storr too much these past several pages. I might need to re-read the whole exchange from when HS announced he lost his vote. For now, Vote: Mets

[StorrZerg]

unvote

I'll look to pressure someone else.
Going to review virus.
not touching mets with a 10 foot pole
possibly check a few others , which may include ib, streaker or others.

[mtamburini]

unvote

I'll look to pressure someone else.
Going to review virus.
not touching mets with a 10 foot pole
possibly check a few others , which may include ib, streaker or others.

Based on the stuff Ive read while I was active I think IB is ok for today. Going to go ref Ill be back in about 5-6 hours and will read the entire thread

[Talapus]

I'm only as powerful as the amount of people who visit me. It can easily be arranged so that a set number visit to get items, so that I remain in check.

Absolutely, and I like this thought. Obviously I think with everything you've said and stated so far you will be a magnet for attention tonight. Howver I still don't think you are the guy that deserves being voted for as I'm still more 3rd party vibe from you than anything else. But as day is winding down we need someone so will look back and see if there is something that really stands out, my fear at this point though is that there is not but will see what's there I guess. Just gotta wait until after work so I can put some time into it I guess as it's hard to focus on much at work.

[StorrZerg]

Vote Streaker

Ok so I missed my day action (after game started only 2 friggin days). f*ck that shit. Still sent it in, we'll see if it does anything.

Not wasting Time, Vote Mitch.

Answer the very good question related to your vote 'swap'. What did you get for it? You clearly stated that you 'traded' it.

role fishing. The obvious answer to what someone would trade for is something that would help themselves if they knew what it was, or it was something unknown. Voting someone (who by the way had other votes) for this is bandwagoning imo. I didnt like the timing of his pressure on madmitch, nor his line of questioning. IB was the first to dive in on madmitch, Streaker wagoned.

Also pointing out that hotshot said he got something before madmitch, and i confirmed it before mad mitch claimed to trade his vote.

Why did you tell us, and the scum, that you lost your vote? And why did you say you got something in return? Now you just made everyone curious, and you let scum know you have a power. Also since you are reluctant to share, they now know you have something that is likely powerfull.

him losing his vote would be obvious. People would ask him to vote, or his vote would appear, timing is an irrelevant question to be aggressive about. Not to mention, i requested him to come forward. So when someone gives you a pro town item for your vote, and asks you to claim you got it. You probably are going to do what they say. SO barking up on madmitch for this is strange.


Since this he has gone on DD5, backed off for miss reading something

And back to madmitch to role fish some more about the power.

What is scummy about pushing Mitch to a claim?

Also, just for clarification, Storr, do you know what people get for visiting you?

I dont like this attitude. This imo comes from a mafia standpoint needing someone to reaffirm that this is an ok person to pressure.


And his "recent case being"

Is there any reason to not punish Mitch for how he is already claiming and yet not saying anything? He is currently hiding behind his soft-claim and not contributing. My vote is ment to get some posts from him. There is nothing wrong with being the 3rd or 5th or whatever on the wagon at this point, not when I explained my reasoning behind it.

Not sure where madmitch half claimed HIS role, but this seems to still be present about what madmitch got

[HotShot53]

Streaker was looking suspicious to me also, for pretty much those reasons. He'd be my second choice behind endgame.

[madmitch]

did not know I was a slacker Talapus also did not know I half claim so please tell me who am I ?

[dd515087]

why is everone attacking storr? what would of happened if I had of picked someone else and had the same offer and made the same choice would you attack them or is it just storr?

It has nothing to do with the fact that you picked Storr and traded your vote it's how Storr has handled the situation and how the rest of his posts look. This entire post is pointless.

unvote

I'll look to pressure someone else.
Going to review virus.
not touching mets with a 10 foot pole
possibly check a few others , which may include ib, streaker or others.

Why "not touching mets with a 10 foot pole"?

unvote I'm not rescinding anything I said and I still don't trust Storr, but I doubt I can get him lynched today, but I will look at him again tomorrow.