StorrZerg wrote:Yet that's not what you asked for. You implied that I haven't been giving reads, and you are waiting for them.
I'll get to ib today, just for you. Before NoS claim I hadn't thought of him much, and his push seemed ok at the time, so I wasn't concerned also you pushing him, I didn't care for your accusation.
I got a lot of rereading to do. Probably get 3 or so in depth reads out by Monday.
Sorry, some miscommunication there, I was saying IB hasn't been giving reads. You obviously have been, and I was just asking your opinion on IB.
StorrZerg wrote:Yet that's not what you asked for. You implied that I haven't been giving reads, and you are waiting for them.
I'll get to ib today, just for you. Before NoS claim I hadn't thought of him much, and his push seemed ok at the time, so I wasn't concerned also you pushing him, I didn't care for your accusation.
I got a lot of rereading to do. Probably get 3 or so in depth reads out by Monday.
Sorry, some miscommunication there, I was saying IB hasn't been giving reads. You obviously have been, and I was just asking your opinion on IB.
Very early in the game, gives a read, interjects himself in. I like how he calls out mets for pushing buttons. Sure you could say the reads are sheeping but its a read.
And your post brings what to this game exactly? You spend a whole post listing reasons why mafia has deteriorated here only to help create a scenario you listed in your rant. Take it to the public discussion, be a bigger man, suck it up...whatever. The same with Storr. Create walls of useless argument and text elsewhere. I understand there is a fine and blurry line between making it personal, playing mafia and what it takes to win. I just find this post on the state of the game and why a useless reason to engage a meaningless tangent.
calls attention to get back on track, sure it can be done as either alignment, but by doing so its townie points since it was meant to try and guide town back in place.
Iron Butterfly wrote:
Iron Butterfly wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:@strike -- no worries.
I have no idea what the hell is going on with Storr/mtam/virus/etc. -- I can't tell if this is jokevoting or not. Can you all please straighten up and make a clearly serious case? You'll do so if you are town, since confusion isn't good for us.
LOL they are. Not to bring up old stuff but they play with different mores then older CC mafia. A different style. I cant say I fully get it at times but have a better understanding...but yeh I have had the same reaction. I will simply say they are playing to form. The ends justify the means, they push buttons and draw reactions. They can also be spot on. I cant say I have seen them in this big of a game.More Town then mafia in my book. I could be wrong.
So as no confusion I speak of Mtam and Storr.
Virus ...he always seems scummy to me.
Wishy washy read maybe, but he is calling the interactions and giving an opinion on it. I think he follows up this town read latter by his interactions with me latter in the game. In particular how he talks to me when i talk about the NoS read, the initial quote that got everyone's jimmies rustled.
I could go on, but i like the way he is playing. It doesn't scream scum to me. I like the questions he is asking, he isn't lurking or playing the sidelines like hotshot suggested. Even during the interaction with the NoS claim, I'm not suspect to it since i was thinking the very same things he was. heck, a lot of people where.
So yeah, i don't see what your getting at hotshot, putting round pegs in square holes it seems..
StorrZerg wrote:Also as doc, whats the purpose of drawing so much negative attention the way you did? A lynch/claim was building up, and you go hard defending it with out reason. You dont know what hotshot is, he could be mafia. It could be a good lynch.
That is an excellent point that I had not considered. If you (NoS) are doc, there is only a very small chance that the loss of Hotshot represents a potentially greater loss to town than your own loss, so you absolutely should have been laying low.
This isn't enough to get me to switch my vote but I'm going to keep it in mind.
You're right, but I am too damn hardheaded to shut up like I probably should have. Im not very experienced with this, but I don't disagree. Should have been common sense.
Iron Butterfly wrote:NoS what is your FULL claim???
Full claim is Two of Rain, Doctor. I win when town is the last faction standing (which leads me to believe there are in fact third party roles).
Storr is a gut feeling, but nothing more. He has (since my accusation) branched off from his hiding-behind-mtamb strategy. So I unvote, vote wing due to wing's recent behaviour. Rishead makes a good point. Honestly, I think rishead might be some random 3rd party. Nothing to worry about though. He makes a good case (as he made on me). Wing, while I understand your concern of there being another doc, I think there are in fact more than enough different power roles for 14 person mafia games. I think it is rather scummy for you to not want another doc claim due to the fact that it would almost certainly mean one of us is scum. However, I dont think scum would randomly pop out and accuse me of being wrong because that would immediately jeopardize their game (leading most to lynch that person D2 once I flipped town). Either I am a very, VERY lucky S.O.B that there is no town doc, or I am the town doc. You decide.
Doom: Thanks for the leeway. I dont remember what exactly I posted, however. I am sorry. It won't happen again.
persianempire wrote:its when ur food goes bad... you get spoils
Wing's kind of been all over the place, but I had a slight town read on him from the start and haven't really changed then.
I'm sticking with my vote on Hotshot. I don't think we have a clear scum winner at this point so it's gonna be a total tossup between Wing and Hotshot.
also, I'm still wary on Storr. He knows how to act town (albeit dickishly). only a slight scum read on him so far though. not enough to throw a vote on him though, wanna see how it plays out.
NoSurvivors wrote:Full claim is Two of Rain, Doctor. I win when town is the last faction standing (which leads me to believe there are in fact third party roles).
NoSurvivors wrote:Full claim is Two of Rain, Doctor. I win when town is the last faction standing (which leads me to believe there are in fact third party roles).
Not sure what to make of this.
What do you mean? Isnt that what a full claim is? (Please let me know if it isnt...)
persianempire wrote:its when ur food goes bad... you get spoils
No No it's definitely a full claim. You did nothing wrong with that. I expected something differently, is all.
Awaiting input from other players on this.
In the meantime, Storr, what do you hope to achieve with a vote on strike?
I know I've been switching around a bit much, and my vote on HotShot was reluctant. It's bandwagoning yes, but everyone seemed to be going in that direction and I really tried to see if I could find what everyone was doing on your trail. I find my vote right now much better.
NoSurvivors wrote: Wing, while I understand your concern of there being another doc, I think there are in fact more than enough different power roles for 14 person mafia games.
There are 174 cards in a double fanucci deck. There are NOT 174 unique roles.
Can people please stop altering this to be a different set up. Yes there are 14 unique roles in mafia. Yes in a vanilla game not everyone has power roles. This is not either of those. This is a closed random set up with 174 cards. There are basically infinite possibilities.
We do not know the balance of mafia/town We do not know whether there is a third party We do not know the strength of power roles
Its that last point which I have been pushing. If we analyse the possibility of having a town doc in isolation we will all perceive it differently depending upon the strength of our own role. It doesnt help us think clearly.
A massclaim is something different as it gives us 14 datapoints to analyse and actually form evidenced opinions about that third question.
The mafia will more than likely have a good idea about the first question and depending upon how much they know about each other they may know more about the third question than us.
This is not me trying to push NoS, its me trying to stop you all overthinking on the basis of a tiny proportion of the information. And yes StrikeWolf, I can be highly analytical when I want to be, I'm an engineer I am always analytical, that has nothing to do with whether I am town though.
NoSurvivors wrote: Wing, while I understand your concern of there being another doc, I think there are in fact more than enough different power roles for 14 person mafia games.
There are 174 cards in a double fanucci deck. There are NOT 174 unique roles.
Can people please stop altering this to be a different set up. Yes there are 14 unique roles in mafia. Yes in a vanilla game not everyone has power roles. This is not either of those. This is a closed random set up with 174 cards. There are basically infinite possibilities.
We do not know the balance of mafia/town We do not know whether there is a third party We do not know the strength of power roles
Its that last point which I have been pushing. If we analyse the possibility of having a town doc in isolation we will all perceive it differently depending upon the strength of our own role. It doesnt help us think clearly.
A massclaim is something different as it gives us 14 datapoints to analyse and actually form evidenced opinions about that third question.
The mafia will more than likely have a good idea about the first question and depending upon how much they know about each other they may know more about the third question than us.
This is not me trying to push NoS, its me trying to stop you all overthinking on the basis of a tiny proportion of the information. And yes StrikeWolf, I can be highly analytical when I want to be, I'm an engineer I am always analytical, that has nothing to do with whether I am town though.
We are all fools sometimes, child, but a wise one learns to limit how often. Suggesting Mass Claim D1?! Great lets give Mafia the best targets for the rest of the game. Strike was replying to my question about your play. And found it lacking. Reckless haste leads to ruin, Balwer. Also its the only information we have.
aage wrote: Maybe you're right, but since we receive no handlebars from the mod I think we should get some ourselves.
NoSurvivors wrote:Full claim is Two of Rain, Doctor. I win when town is the last faction standing (which leads me to believe there are in fact third party roles).
NoSurvivors wrote: Wing, while I understand your concern of there being another doc, I think there are in fact more than enough different power roles for 14 person mafia games.
There are 174 cards in a double fanucci deck. There are NOT 174 unique roles.
Can people please stop altering this to be a different set up. Yes there are 14 unique roles in mafia. Yes in a vanilla game not everyone has power roles. This is not either of those. This is a closed random set up with 174 cards. There are basically infinite possibilities.
We do not know the balance of mafia/town We do not know whether there is a third party We do not know the strength of power roles
Its that last point which I have been pushing. If we analyse the possibility of having a town doc in isolation we will all perceive it differently depending upon the strength of our own role. It doesnt help us think clearly.
A massclaim is something different as it gives us 14 datapoints to analyse and actually form evidenced opinions about that third question.
The mafia will more than likely have a good idea about the first question and depending upon how much they know about each other they may know more about the third question than us.
This is not me trying to push NoS, its me trying to stop you all overthinking on the basis of a tiny proportion of the information. And yes StrikeWolf, I can be highly analytical when I want to be, I'm an engineer I am always analytical, that has nothing to do with whether I am town though.
are you sure mafia can't just request fake claims? wouldn't this kinda put a damper in the whole mass claim plan? Specially if we have towns that have scummy roles? I mean, mafia could have a role cop, and town could have no cop, but a tracker. etc. I'd be more for the mass claim, if we had something more to work with. Maybe tomorrow so we have confirmed actions to start picking out liars and such.
Could be nothing, that's why I'm not sure. It's just that in most (if not all) games I played all victory conditions are exact copies for all players.
He said 'I win when when town is last faction standing'. It is completely different from what I would have expected, because my victory condition is formulated quite differently... Like I said, not sure what to make of it. But I consider it important enough to bring out as it could indicate he is third party.
Massclaim on D1 with a closed setup and an infinite number of flavour possibilities. Don't see how that could work.
There is a difference between a straight up quote, and a complete different feel to a sentence. He specifically mentioned 'factions'. The way he mentioned this triggered a flag with me.
But one more time, this could really be nothing more then something the mod does not care about (ea giving exact the same victory conditions).
Streaker wrote:You suggesting we don't ask for claims anymore
Above quote is Streaker objecting to my suggestion that NoS claim is not that useful.
Streaker wrote:Massclaim on D1 with a closed setup and an infinite number of flavour possibilities. Don't see how that could work.
Somewhat hypocrticial to then object to massclaim... I've picked out Streaker here, but you are all doing it. One rule for NoS a different rule for yourself.
Streaker wrote:You suggesting we don't ask for claims anymore
Above quote is Streaker objecting to my suggestion that NoS claim is not that useful.
Streaker wrote:Massclaim on D1 with a closed setup and an infinite number of flavour possibilities. Don't see how that could work.
Somewhat hypocrticial to then object to massclaim... I've picked out Streaker here, but you are all doing it. One rule for NoS a different rule for yourself.
Hypocritical how? Pushing a case on 1 person and making him claim (with all the pressure and comments of that and other players surrounding this) are completely different to a mass claim. Nothing to see here move along.
I agree with Storr that it is not worth going after right now. Would love to see more pressure on Wing.
Wing really has been all over the place lately, it's a pretty classic example of mafia being boxed in and throwing out lots of accusations to defuse the tension against them. On the other hand, it also sounds like something a newb would do, so I don't know what to make of it.
Players 1. Storrzerg - Voting Strikewolf - "I think strike is worth looking into. Seems to lack a sense of urgency in his posts compared to how the game is flowing, holding his vote. Has given a few small town reads, but doesn't seem that interested in pushing people this game. The side line approach feels mafia to me."
2. HotShot53 - Voting IB - "The best scum read I have so far is on IB for his lack of content in his posts, just seems to be posting occasionally to post without actually trying to scum hunt or give opinions on any of the cases or anything."
3. Iron Butterfly - Voting Hotshot - "Why are you concerned with my reads? The only reason I did not vote you was the OMGUS factor, which tied my hands to some extent. "Oh Oh Oh...IB voted Hotshot after he called attention to IB" I can hear the rally cry now."
4. WingCmdr Ginkapo - Voting NoS - "I am happy to bandwagon any of Hotshot, NoS or Streaker, and this appears to be the way we are going."
5. Streaker - Voting Wing - "You suggesting we don't ask for claims anymore, and just lynch?
It would be perfectly fine if, say Hotshot, claims cop when he is at L-2 next (example). We'll back off and he will do his cop thing to help town to a victory, or later in the game he will fall into the self-dug grave of claiming cop (having 3 checked players and they just happen to all be dead for instance). Either way, helpfull to town.
What you are suggesting is very detrimental to the winning chances of town... "
6. mtamburini - Voting NoS - No direct quote with vote, but it was during the bandwagon.
7. virus90 - Voting Streaker - "what stood out most to me was the part in which streaker town reads hotshot. while basicly hotshot hasnt said much but defending the defending of wing. so i unvote my jokevote and vote streaker, for town reading someone for reasons unclear for me (except reasons i can think of; gaining friends)"
8. strike wolf - Voting Wing - "So I read over the C9 game where Wing is now proven town just to confirm that his behavior was not just do to inexperience. The difference was fairly striking.
In that game, Wing appeared reasonably confident and analytical. I will not say it wasnt without flaws and I disagreed with much of the results of his thoughts but overll he gave an air of experience in that game that is absent from how I have read him this game where he appears more defensive and inexperienced."
9. metsfanmax - Voting Hotshot - "I lean most toward Hotshot right now, so I'll apply that. Claim would be nice about now."
10. NoSurvivors - Voting Wing - "So I unvote, vote wing due to wing's recent behaviour." ..... " Wing, while I understand your concern of there being another doc, I think there are in fact more than enough different power roles for 14 person mafia games. I think it is rather scummy for you to not want another doc claim due to the fact that it would almost certainly mean one of us is scum. "
11. Army of GOD - Voting Hotshot - "I like the HotShot vote. It seems low risk and since sides have already been taken (virus defending Hotshot). We don't have much of anything to go on else though. "
12. TeeGee - Voting Steaker - This is still the random D1 vote as created by DoomYoshi
13. TA1LGUNN3R - Voting Storr - "vote storrzerg for avoiding my question."
14. rishaed - Voting Wing - "Trigger happy on D1 Lynch. Understand you're new, but after those three quotes I say your scum especially after doc claim."
I thought that excercise would be more useful than it turned out to be.
A couple of major points to raise.
Tails has gone awol, last seen arguing with Storr about whether players can maintain interest without a quick D1 lynch.
Teegee has never voted.
There appears to be a cluster of people hopping about with their vote following the latest trend, I'll try and show a full list of votes cast later.
For clarifcation - a few people have described me as being all over the place. What exactly do you mean by this? I have stuck with NoS, Streaker and Hotshot so far, though currently Hotshot is looking more and more like town to me.
