The Big Lebowski Mafia - Mafia and Lyncher win!

[strike wolf]

Well four is a possibility even if it is a bit on the high side. So we should definitely be cautious. I would think three but I recently learned assuming the higher # is safer.

[strike wolf]

Sorry got distracted with the whole nark deal, defending mysle and other threads but I need to complete what I meant to earlier on:

Vote streaker - even thought I'm yet to re-read why he's being voted out, I'm not buying that claim one bit.

this put streaker back at L-2 after doomyoshi had unvoted. Made it clear he hadn't very clear he hadn't read the case and voted based simply on claim.

Would a Scum work so hard to lynch someone on Day 1? Or would he just throw his vote in and let the townies do all the work? Principles of Aikido suggest the second strategy is better, so I conclude that Yoshi is a noob (no offense men, we all were) and Pancake is a seasoned scum. Vote Pancake

AiKiDo? Nice - my favourite martial art. Respect to you from my part about the whole idea of this post. In fact, my case is indeed against PCM as well.

Lets start with something rather simple:

*Since the game started, until being pointed out as an inactive, he barely contributed. Afterwards, while he has been posting, the posts were rather sparse.

*After the initial activity shock and he posts this and then comes back to his hiatus.

I'd say the people who voted me were the scummiest (more safari, though). Call it OMGUS, but the votes were baseless. I would also say that the people who thought it odd that I should show up after I got voted were just trying to find something on me.

Then there's the Streaker case. He's made no response to the accusations against him, so I've nothing to say at this point. However, safari seemed very eager to jump at Streaker after he was very eager to jump at me, and there seems to be a pattern developing. I understand wanting a lynch due to deadlines, but the first sign of something amiss is not always the ideal option.

A post that seemingly has something in it, but as you read it more deeply, it doesn't have a lot of substance - he says that people who voted are scummy and then points out that Safari and Streaker have jumped quickly with their votes.

*After that he saids that he wants me to post something (Read - "I want you to direct me somewhere") and then quickly jumps over yoshi (same as Safari and Streaker had done before) and when Mandy points that out, he says that Mandy's now jumping too fast.

To summarize, I think that he has been less active than usually and has stayed rather low during this time while acting mildly scummy. Vote PCM.

Comes to vote pcm on what is not really a bandwagoning vote but on someone who between previous day accusations and some speculation on the current day could have at the time easily came to be the next bandwagon.

IT'S BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLD!

And before you call me a broken record, show me where I could've found scum based on that activity. Obviously, no one else could.

That's the whole thing - you're not even trying. I'm not saying that is a clear-cut strong case, but you've barely participated AND you didn't encourage others to go scum-hunting. One way or another I would like this game to start going somewhere with people being involved and posting and hopefully finding scum. I have a couple of other suspicions, but for now I'm feeling fairly fine with keeping my vote on you and unless something better comes up, I'll continue to do so.

This is where I really feel this gets interesting. He states he has other cases he is interested in yet has never followed through with any of them even after asked to do so citing a somewhat decent but imo flawed reason for not saying so about "dividing town". I can understand the reasoning somewhat but fosing a second person isn't going to divide town really and if it has good reasoning it shouldn't come back to bite him.

I do not have time to argue every point commander made nor do I want to but for summary the next so many posts pretty much continue to focus on his argument with pancake until this:

Strike is not defending me any longer - he called me out on the fact that I was posting one-liners.

Am I the only one who's feeling scum vibes here? It seems like strike is now trying to finding anything on yoshi, so he could distance himself.

seriously??? indeed his agressiveness towards you is shocking *smirk* but to me his intervention seemed more like a friendly scum/sibling directing a clueless partner towards better gameplaying, and at the same time taking a bit of distance after being so overly protective, making me even more weary about the nature of your relationship

QFT. I totally agree - I wasn't too suspicious about these 2 before, but this sudden attack from strike on such a small thing does get me interested.

I cite this instance for two reasons. First tthis is his first real comment on the doom wagon at all and second because of this:

Well, since I see that nothing will happen with PCM (even though I still consider him to be not pro-town), I'm cool with putting more pressure Yoshi (he was 3rd on my list).

Unvote. Vote Yoshi.

So you hadn't paid attention to either of us but yoshi was third on your list? While unprovable definitely I did like what ga7 said about the list being conveniently unmentioned so he could do something like this.

The next case I want to bring up is one that I feel nark and tails have summarized decently already but wish to expand upon:

well, like i was intending to say, i have a box full of magic cards lying around in my house in Chile, that were generously donated by my friends who couldn't manage to get me interested past the "ooo that draw is so pretty!'" stage so with this i conclude my contribution to the card games topic that seemed to use up most of the discussion in this game and i'll proceed to contribute with a sound alternative to the case that ga7 put up against streaker; which even thought is as good as it gets for such an uneventful day 1, doesnt "strike" me as suspicious as the case i will expose.

I Vote Mandy because i dont buy that our very own genius of random theories is so very busy with real life that cant share a couple of lines of sheer madness with us, therefore he must be scumarining, for all what i know he might be the most overpowered scum we have ever seen!

disclaimer: even thought this might seem a joke vote i assure you people it is not!
disclaimer 2: i made a tarot reading and this is what the cards hinted!! after all they spoke about a dangerous mustached man!!!
disclaimer 3: i'm very new at tarot reading xD

Before I really start can someone really explain this post to me? The first part does not really say much but neither does it try to say much other than a lead into the case she pesents so *shrug*. The case itself I don't really understand much it just seems to go on about mandy being inactive. Proclaiming him to be scummaring and a possibly overpowered scum and insured us it wasnt a joke vote.

i need to re-watch the film, but i am pretty sure it wasn't this gore :s damn bloody night, and the deaths seems so random too, anyway i think that according to haggis post the locator died by choosing wrong, whatever this means (may be by finding mafia), is the first time i have seen such role, anyway I'm surprised that the guy who hammered larry made it through the night, so he is my vote for today til something better surfaces vote doom yoshi

First vote on yoshi wagon.

I think it's 3 complete mafias actually... but I started playing in February or thereabouts... I am still fairly new. I did think I caught him in a lie, as I didn't look up the thief role and I didn't think it was investigative.

I apologized for what was perceived as the quick hammer, and I will definitely wait until closer to the deadline in the future.

sounds good to me unvote doom yoshi im glad you are speaking up yoshi, next time if you have doubts just ask, i have been playing for a while now, and i encounter roles i didn't know quite often, in my experience you can always find someone who will oblige and explain.

FOS pancake, mandy crazy ass theories are right half of the time, and at the moment that seems better than the other leads on the table (meaning anarkist and streak).

Waffles on it though fairly understandably.

Decides to trust mandy on the pancake wagon. Easily the second big wagon at the time. Does not vote but does fos.

FOS pancake, mandy crazy ass theories are right half of the time, and at the moment that seems better than the other leads on the table (meaning anarkist and streak).

This seems almost like a post to stay on the radar. And what's this now?

by streak i was meaning strike, im not a native english speaker and i think phonetically, got them mixed up (btw i think that strike might have a linked role to yoshi's, hence his overprotective attitude, for example like siblings, in which case is common to have one being mafia and the other town).

Also im starting to doubt the "noobness" defense of yoshi, because he seems to feel experienced enough for run 2 games at the same time, since when ppl who is just learning the ropes go around modding games? FOS yoshi

Starts to turn her attention back to doomyoshi as for the newbies modding games. They actually try fairly often. They just succeed less often.

I am also starting to feel this fosing is to try and avoid that she is constantly switching wagons. Undefendable but that is the impression I have been getting.

With my background in theatre, I tend to look at motivation of words.

what?? a theater background? so your noobness defense could be just an act? a well rehearsed number from a seasoned actor/actress/it? you yoshi, keep giving me reasons for suspect you, something smells rotten in the kingdom of denmark!

Strike is not defending me any longer - he called me out on the fact that I was posting one-liners.

seriously??? indeed his agressiveness towards you is shocking *smirk* but to me his intervention seemed more like a friendly scum/sibling directing a clueless partner towards better gameplaying, and at the same time taking a bit of distance after being so overly protective, making me even more weary about the nature of your relationship.

Also im starting to doubt the "noobness" defense of yoshi, because he seems to feel experienced enough for run 2 games at the same time, since when ppl who is just learning the ropes go around modding games? FOS yoshi

plus did you intentionally ignored my comment on page 15, or you accidentally skimmed it? (skimming will be your loss kid)

well you have done more than enough for grant that my FOS becomes a Vote yoshi

Revotes yoshi. Reasoning stable mostly but I do not really understand the acting accusation. It seems to be fluff to her case.

[strike wolf]

Oops didn't mean to hit submit. Had still been working on that post...

[nagerous]

I've sent out some prods.

[nagerous]

Vote Count

Nark (1) Flores
Flores (2) Nark, Tailgunner


6 to lynch,

5 days until the deadline, those that have been prodded have 24 hours to post or they will be replaced.

[Haggis_McMutton]

I need to reread the game to have something productive to say, but I don't have enough time right now. With my finals being next week, I can't guarantee I'll do it this weekend, but I'll try.

+1

Exam tomorrow, I'll try to re-read after it, but not sure since there's another one on Monday(and another on Wednesday, and the saturday again ... yay )

Responding to prod, sorry for the inactivity guys.

like i said, had a shitload of exams till yesterday, and yesterday was also my birthday, so I'm kinda hungover right now.

I'll catch up to this by tonight

[nagerous]

Haha, I have 9 hours of exams this week so I feel your pain.

[FloresDelMal]

OK i got prodded and i find myself being voted, but i really don't see why, the only thing i see is that i might have rushed my vote, i could have fos'ed first, but my reasoning behind the vote i put on anarkist is simple and straightforward, i do believe that if he were town he could have played his hand better than that, he is both experienced and intelligent.

Now that i think things better it occurs to me that attract attention over a scum buddy supposedly clearing him as town on account to defend oneself of an unlikely BW could be a really effective way of protect someone and looking like a clueless protown, just an "innocent mistake" since most likely this supposedly outed person could get a protection and/or might not get targeted for a kill because of the high provability that the said person might get protected, i do believe that anarkist could be capable of pulling off such a roundabout strategy.

Seriously guys, i am the only one that believes that anarkist claim and the way he linked himself to this guy came out of nowhere? something doesn't feel right, i suppose his scumbuddies could discredit this fact and jump on an easier pray, someone who doesn't get spontaneous defenders (unlike doom yoshi), someone like me.

Now about my vote on mandy, do i really need to explain that it was a playful joke vote, a friendly way of saying "get your ass here and start to post"? (i did mention tarot and facial hair, geez) what i did was be careful because i didn't want to jump on the bw of someone who could well likely turn out town so putted my vote where i thought it couldn't hurt, because at that time the only person who seemed suspicious was strike for defending doom yoshi, but i believed his defense, and therefor i didn't insisted on this, of course doom yoshi WAS a sk, and my instincts are not bullet proof, so who knows *shrugs*

Then there was my vote pattern on doom yoshi who i voted, then unvoted, then fosed, and then i voted again, why did i proceed this way? well because i found him scummy, then it came to my attention that the player was a noob and strike sided with him, it seemed logic enough so i unvoted, then he seemed a bit too experienced for let him off the hook based on the "oh is just a noob mistake"excuse so i fosed him, and when i got convinced beyond a doubt that there was no redeeming quality about him i just voted, the references to his acting background were just me and my sense of humor, i have nothing against the theater folks, i do dislike journalists thought, but i still couldn't vote someone based on his career path *sighs* i hate being redundant, but i don't see what else could i say for explain my behavior.

[Commander9]

Going to re-read and try to post something in the few coming days.

[strike wolf]

To be honest that post I made should have never seen the light of day in the form it is in. To understand what I mean. Usually when I make these long posts. I will go through the thread and note comments and players who catch my attention. Once I've gone through the thread I go through all the posts by the people I have noted and write whatever strikes me as scummy (this is where the post gets bad) once I have gone through one person I will if I have time go through it and edit focusing on the consistent and significant scumtells. I was more or less able to do that last step for my argument on commander but because it was posted prematurely the part regarding flores was never finished and not only did it not get through the thread, I never really fine tuned any of the comments or anything.

[nagerous]

Ga7 is going to be replaced, need to find a suitable individual.

[strike wolf]

Ok...I am for the moment at least going to vote commander
I think what I mentioned about him first stating he hadn't been paying attention to me and yoshi and then saying that yoshi was third on his list of scum sounds like a pretty clear contradiction.

[TA1LGUNN3R]

I think Strike brings up some good points about Commie, but considering that I don't fully trust Strike, I would like to hear Commie's rebuttal. His points on Flores were also valid, even if they weren't edited or whatever.

OK i got prodded and i find myself being voted, but i really don't see why, the only thing i see is that i might have rushed my vote, i could have fos'ed first, but my reasoning behind the vote i put on anarkist is simple and straightforward, i do believe that if he were town he could have played his hand better than that, he is both experienced and intelligent.

Now that i think things better it occurs to me that attract attention over a scum buddy supposedly clearing him as town on account to defend oneself of an unlikely BW could be a really effective way of protect someone and looking like a clueless protown, just an "innocent mistake" since most likely this supposedly outed person could get a protection and/or might not get targeted for a kill because of the high provability that the said person might get protected, i do believe that anarkist could be capable of pulling off such a roundabout strategy.

Well, this could be considered a tell. Perhaps that's why.

That would be very effective, but require some considerable courage. The fact that you immediately bring this to your defense though, that this is some elaborate ploy Nark and I cooked up... well that's just desperate.

To other townies: I don't mind getting outed. It's already known I'm town, so if Nark wants to prove he's town, then I invite him to name my role. The character pool is already pretty low at this point, not much room for error if he's bluffing.

-Tails

[TA1LGUNN3R]

His wife goes and owes money all over town, and they pee on my fucking rug!?

-The Dude abides with a White Russian.

[TA1LGUNN3R]

The man in the black pajamas...

-Tails

[spiesr]

Ok...I am for the moment at least going to vote commander
I think what I mentioned about him first stating he hadn't been paying attention to me and yoshi and then saying that yoshi was third on his list of scum sounds like a pretty clear contradiction.

I admit this point is fairly week, but I would like to point out that I have to wonder if your vote on Commander now is an attempt to deflect interest from Flores...

[strike wolf]

Not at all. if you feel my case on commander is weak or baseless go ahead and argue it but the point is flores already has two votes and I feel under the circumstances a third vote is quite major. I do not have any problem with the flores wagon and am a. Presenting the commander wagon as what I consider a very sound alternative and b. Presenting a case on someone I feel is just as if not more suspicious than flores.

[nagerous]

Violet replaces ga7.

[Commander9]

Spiesr is actually right...the chances I was investigated went way down when doomyoshi proved to be an unaligned role. But that only goes to show that the main argument against me is now moot.

Or perhaps you were a clever mafia member who knew that yoshi was not mafia and you assumed he was town and wanted to prove your credentials... And that didn't quite work out?

this put streaker back at L-2 after doomyoshi had unvoted. Made it clear he hadn't very clear he hadn't read the case and voted based simply on claim.

And?.. Deadline was coming and the vote was needed. I thought that role was complete BS and a town would very rarely try to fake a claim.

Comes to vote pcm on what is not really a bandwagoning vote but on someone who between previous day accusations and some speculation on the current day could have at the time easily came to be the next bandwagon.

The best you can come up with? Really? I am fairly sure there were no votes on him at that time and I thought he sticked out (Didn't you do that with spiesr? Double standards much?)

This is where I really feel this gets interesting. He states he has other cases he is interested in yet has never followed through with any of them even after asked to do so citing a somewhat decent but imo flawed reason for not saying so about "dividing town". I can understand the reasoning somewhat but fosing a second person isn't going to divide town really and if it has good reasoning it shouldn't come back to bite him.

I do not have time to argue every point commander made nor do I want to but for summary the next so many posts pretty much continue to focus on his argument with pancake until this:

And I will still say that I did the right thing. The case on PCM was the strongest one and at least I was trying to get the game moving... Something that can't be said about some others.

So you hadn't paid attention to either of us but yoshi was third on your list? While unprovable definitely I did like what ga7 said about the list being conveniently unmentioned so he could do something like this.

Read above. Nice OMGUS here as well.

Ok...I am for the moment at least going to vote commander
I think what I mentioned about him first stating he hadn't been paying attention to me and yoshi and then saying that yoshi was third on his list of scum sounds like a pretty clear contradiction.

Nice misquoting of my words. Such a blatant OMGUS - nice, Strike. I said I didn't consider you suspicious, not that I didn't pay attention...

[strike wolf]

Spiesr is actually right...the chances I was investigated went way down when doomyoshi proved to be an unaligned role. But that only goes to show that the main argument against me is now moot.

Or perhaps you were a clever mafia member who knew that yoshi was not mafia and you assumed he was town and wanted to prove your credentials... And that didn't quite work out?

I've explained why I defended yoshi. If you don't like those reasons you can argue them. Other than that yeah I defended the wrong newbie. Prove to me how that makes me scum or drop it.

this put streaker back at L-2 after doomyoshi had unvoted. Made it clear he hadn't very clear he hadn't read the case and voted based simply on claim.

And?.. Deadline was coming and the vote was needed. I thought that role was complete BS and a town would very rarely try to fake a claim.

fair enough. I still think you should have at least glanced at the reasons why he was being voted.

Comes to vote pcm on what is not really a bandwagoning vote but on someone who between previous day accusations and some speculation on the current day could have at the time easily came to be the next bandwagon.

The best you can come up with? Really? I am fairly sure there were no votes on him at that time and I thought he sticked out (Didn't you do that with spiesr? Double standards much?)

false. Mandy had voted him and some others were expressing suspicions. It is not double standards at all. Show me how people were all showing suspicion on spiesr before I made my case. Because if you can find it I will be shocked. And saying it is a double standard because we both made a case on someone who "stuck out" well you might as well fos everyone who has made or supported a case on anyone in this game.

This is where I really feel this gets interesting. He states he has other cases he is interested in yet has never followed through with any of them even after asked to do so citing a somewhat decent but imo flawed reason for not saying so about "dividing town". I can understand the reasoning somewhat but fosing a second person isn't going to divide town really and if it has good reasoning it shouldn't come back to bite him.

I do not have time to argue every point commander made nor do I want to but for summary the next so many posts pretty much continue to focus on his argument with pancake until this:

And I will still say that I did the right thing. The case on PCM was the strongest one and at least I was trying to get the game moving... Something that can't be said about some others.

you could have introduced one other and let others decide how weak or strong it was.

So you hadn't paid attention to either of us but yoshi was third on your list? While unprovable definitely I did like what ga7 said about the list being conveniently unmentioned so he could do something like this.

Read above. Nice OMGUS here as well.

. For the record and this goes for your next part too but I tend to use "paid attention" and "expressed suspicion" interchangeably. Show me how it isn't true. You said you hadn't really been suspicious of me or doomyoshi but then said we were third on your list. I'm not gonna bother answering the last part as it is pretty much the same reasoning as I've just stated.

[Commander9]

Don't understand, but I can't post any quoting as submitting automatically messes it up.

[Commander9]

[quote="strike wolf"]false. Mandy had voted him and some others were expressing suspicions. It is not double standards at all. Show me how people were all showing suspicion on spiesr before I made my case. Because if you can find it I will be shocked. And saying it is a double standard because we both made a case on someone who "stuck out" well you might as well fos everyone who has made or supported a case on anyone in this game.[quote]

[quote="mandalorian2298"][quote="pancakemix"]Read: "I couldn't have done it! It makes too much sense!" That's WIFOM and I don't like it.

If it was a vig, I'm also curious as to the choice, but I'm not sold that's the case here.

Except that he didn't. Thief is investigative. Or are we on something else?[quote]

Would a Scum work so hard to lynch someone on Day 1? Or would he just throw his vote in and let the townies do all the work? Principles of Aikido suggest the second strategy is better, so I conclude that Yoshi is a noob (no offense men, we all were) and Pancake is a seasoned scum. Vote Pancake[quote]

This is the only post that Mandy posted a reference to PCM and others didn't post all that many either. I think that my vote had enough validity in it. Double standards were a reference to pointing someone rather than being the 1st one to do so. Just because you did it first does bring any more validity than bringing another somewhat valid case which more people noticed ( Millions of men drink alcohol and get drunk - can they be wrong?... Ugh, not a good argument). As far as fosing everyone - that confirms my point: your case doesn't having in it.

[Commander9]

Reddened my answers, but I can't fix this. Some sort of fucked up bug here.

Or perhaps you were a clever mafia member who knew that yoshi was not mafia and you assumed he was town and wanted to prove your credentials... And that didn't quite work out?

I've explained why I defended yoshi. If you don't like those reasons you can argue them. Other than that yeah I defended the wrong newbie. Prove to me how that makes me scum or drop it.

Definite proof? No. Suspicious? Yes. I'm just pointing that arguments that you do can go both ways.

fair enough. I still think you should have at least glanced at the reasons why he was being voted.

I will say the exactly same defence I've said in some of other of my games - that was the end of the last semester before graduation and mafia wasn't exactly at the top of my to-do list.

you could have introduced one other and let others decide how weak or strong it was.

So I should bring up a case even if I myself feel that it's very weak? Even if I'm not convinced myself? If I can't even convince myself fully, how do you expect I will convince others?

For the record and this goes for your next part too but I tend to use "paid attention" and "expressed suspicion" interchangeably. Show me how it isn't true. You said you hadn't really been suspicious of me or doomyoshi but then said we were third on your list. I'm not gonna bother answering the last part as it is pretty much the same reasoning as I've just stated.

Disagree. "Not paying attention" basically means that ignore your argument and that I really don't give a flip about it - "not expressing suspicion" means that I've read the argument, but I didn't thought it was scummy. Big, big difference here. Also, I believe that reference was just against yoshi and not you, but I'd have to check to be sure. (A lot of it came from his hammering) I do not believe I made any references to you.

[strike wolf]

Reddened my answers, but I can't fix this. Some sort of fucked up bug here.

Definite proof? No. Suspicious? Yes. I'm just pointing that arguments that you do can go both ways.

and I could say the reason you edited your comments out of your original rebuttal against my comments would be to hide the fact you referenced mandy's case when making your initial post against pancake. Doesn't make it any more true.

You can metagame me if you wish, the only time I have defended someone as scum was when I was an sk in Unmafia and other than that being a case where that was pointing out vio's weak case against you to build a legitimate case against vio, it was a much different scenario than playing as mafia where I can somewhat predict who is town based on who I am aligned with.

I will say the exactly same defence I've said in some of other of my games - that was the end of the last semester before graduation and mafia wasn't exactly at the top of my to-do list.

well then just as a word of advice maybe it was not the best idea vote someone in that scenario.

So I should bring up a case even if I myself feel that it's very weak? Even if I'm not convinced myself? If I can't even convince myself fully, how do you expect I will convince others?

then I don't really see the point of mentioning you had other cases if they were that weak.

Disagree. "Not paying attention" basically means that ignore your argument and that I really don't give a flip about it - "not expressing suspicion" means that I've read the argument, but I didn't thought it was scummy. Big, big difference here. Also, I believe that reference was just against yoshi and not you, but I'd have to check to be sure. (A lot of it came from his hammering) I do not believe I made any references to you.

You said you hadn't been suspicious of the two of us. I will admit that the two phrases don't mean the exact same thing and it is a bad habit but it is kind of how I look at it. If you see something odd about a post you look it over again and pay closer attention to it. If you don't you may read through it once and just move on. You don't fully pay attention to the case in full detail but instead dismiss it.

[strike wolf]

And I still say you are comparing apples to oranges with the pancake and spiesr arguments.

1. You say we both were pointing someone out.

Similarities: we were pointing out behavior from people we found suspicious. That's usually how people do make cases. They point out suspicious behavior.

Differences:

From my understanding you pointed out pancake because you felt he was not really motivated in participating in discussion or really making cases and are basically calling him complacent about what was going on in the thread.

My case on spiesr: he was willing to participate in discussion but was not straying from popular discussion. I was not calling him complacent or uninterested in voting but seeming to be very cautious about voting. I was also backing up that he was being cautious by how he used questions presumably to leave his comments open ended.

Part of my case however minor is your behavior makes it seem like you are contributing to town by pointing stuff out that has already been mentioned and referencing cases you have but not sharing them with anyone so from my stand point being the first to mention the argument against you not being the first is a major detail.

So yeah real double standards there.