Chris Nolan Mafia - Game Over [ARCHIVE]

[Commander9]

Here's your long awaited case:

Presenting.... Vio! Unvote. Vote Vio.

Now, you may ask why would I vote her? Well, here's just a couple of reasons:

1) We all know that she's usually very hectic, active and hard to miss, but in this game she has been laying low, has generally posted, but not with substance. (she has 10 posts in total, including signing up and 2 confirms)

2) Her 1st big post - first of all she FoS'es Nag, but doesn't vote him. Then, she affirms that spiesr's thoughts about that tg is scummy, but again doesn't do anything. She also quotes a lot of long posts and then writes shorter answers mainly agreeing with most points (Barring voting Safari).

3) She said she has been working on a case at Mon Apr 04, 2011 2:14 am

I am working on making a case, but it is taking me a bit of time to develop it. I need to re-read through the thread again. I am hoping that by this time tomorrow, I will be ready to post it.

She then presents the case that he has been active mainly pro-town and in the end she finally only FoS'es him. For a person who almost always is voting, she's certainly being out of character.

4)

QFT. This was a really keen post from Fircoal.

I feel that if we go the no lynch route, we will wake up in the morning with a townie dead- and be at the same exact place that we are now.

Only exception is if a cop makes some meaningful discovery during the night.

I have to say I'm a little disappointed that no one has commented on my case against sheep- except for sheep himself. And that doesn't count. It took me several hours and days to make that post (i know it doesn't look like it- but it did). And I'm not very good at making cases, but I did try with that one.

Afterwards, she agrees with Fir that lynching is very important, but 5 days later she votes for no lynch and has not posted since.

[Fircoal]

Vote: Vio I have to agree with Commander on the thoughts of Voilet. It's very odd so she votes no lynch and doesn't seem to make any risky votes. I think it'd be worth it to pressure her if nothing else. She is our greatest lead as of yet. The only other choice would be to try for Edoc again. :/

[sheepofdumb]

I just get the vibe that he is sitting back and hoping for others to do all the voting for him- much like commander is doing. So I wanted to spread awareness.

What hypocrisy! She's doing the same thing to me. Except I voted for people I made cases against.

I feel that if we go the no lynch route, we will wake up in the morning with a townie dead- and be at the same exact place that we are now.

I am not feeling the case on Edoc at all. If i were to vote anyone right now, it would be sheep, but as I said before, that would be getting us nowhere.

So...I think I'm with Tails on this one. I think on Day 2, we might better understand what type of setup this is.

Vote No Lynch

That's twice she's been hypocritical in one day.
Vote Violet

[edocsil]

I guess we are prodding Vio then. I wait till she comes around and says something before passing judgment, as there is really nothing to be added right now.

[pancakemix]

VioIet has been prodded, for reference.

[VioIet]

I have a lot of votes on me, so i think I better claim.

I am Robert, Town Magician. I also am a Double Voter- as some have correctly guessed already.

Also my role pm tells me to beware of Fircoal. His name is Alfred. Supposedly we are both magicians and we used to be partners back in the day until he tried to kill me and my wife, and i had to flee from him. He did kill my wife eventually, but not me yet. This is enough for me to suspect he is scum.

I just get the vibe that he is sitting back and hoping for others to do all the voting for him- much like commander is doing. So I wanted to spread awareness.

What hypocrisy! She's doing the same thing to me. Except I voted for people I made cases against.

I feel that if we go the no lynch route, we will wake up in the morning with a townie dead- and be at the same exact place that we are now.

I am not feeling the case on Edoc at all. If i were to vote anyone right now, it would be sheep, but as I said before, that would be getting us nowhere.

So...I think I'm with Tails on this one. I think on Day 2, we might better understand what type of setup this is.

Vote No Lynch

That's twice she's been hypocritical in one day.
Vote Violet

Sheep, that is actually one of the reasons why I didn't vote for you. I already stated it would have divided the votes and interest at that point in the game, and it would have been hyprocritical. Thus an FOS would suffice.

Yes I have been laying low. And if you notice, I am laying low in all my mafia games- right now, not just this one. In a recent game- I unintentionally put too much attention on myself the first day- and it wasn't good for town.

Some may wonder why i made a case against sheep on day 1, and not Fir. First of all, I wanted to practice and learn how to build a case against someone- as i am usually not good at it. Second, I know that Fir is hot on my tail, and there was no need for me to bring attention to myself. I tried to be agreeable to all his posts- to make it hard for him to find any reasons to build a case against me. This was also another reason why i tried to stay low. If i did anything silly or drew attention to myself as usual- Fir would have pounced on me.

And yes I admit it probably did look bad for me to be against no-lynch early in the game, and then vote no-lynch at the end. But you have to remember the sequence of events. I was against no lynch between the time that shield died and safari was mod-killed. After safari was mod-killed, I completely changed my tune. There was no reason to vote a no lynch before, imo. But after that- we had lost two non-mafia roles, and i felt we couldn't afford to lose another one. I was also confused about the setup of the game, and thought another day would be good for town to try to figure things out.

[edocsil]

Oye! So you vote NL, and then spike me in the back! I call bullocks. You did something shady, and it wasn't for the reasons you stated.

Vote Vio

[VioIet]

I am a town double voter, but I was not the one who double voted for you. I strongly suspect it was Fir, as he is the Mafia Double Voter.

I have not used my Double Vote yet this game.

[edocsil]

I am a town double voter, but I was not the one who double voted for you. I strongly suspect it was Fir, as he is the Mafia Double Voter.

I have not used my Double Vote yet this game.

Oh. Well I put 2 and 2 and got 4. Not so sure now. In that case I am quite interested in Fir, I don't like it when people try to kill me.

[TA1LGUNN3R]

Hmm...So you were informed of Chu's role? That seems...odd, I guess. I guess we have to wait and hear from Chu.

-Tails

[pancakemix]

Vote Count

Vio - 4 (Comm, Chu, Sheep, Edoc)

With 8 alive it takes 6 to lynch.

[Commander9]

Unvote. I'll explain all of it later.

[Fircoal]

I have a lot of votes on me, so i think I better claim.

I am Robert, Town Magician. I also am a Double Voter- as some have correctly guessed already.

Also my role pm tells me to beware of Fircoal. His name is Alfred. Supposedly we are both magicians and we used to be partners back in the day until he tried to kill me and my wife, and i had to flee from him. He did kill my wife eventually, but not me yet. This is enough for me to suspect he is scum.

Nice try trying to sacrifice me like that. However you don't seem to exactly be telling the truth. I looked up your character and the movie he's in to understand your claim and on the wiki I found this: "Film critic Matt Brunson observes a complex theme of duality exemplified by Angier and Borden, noting that the film chooses not to depict either magician as "good" or "evil"."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Prestige_%28film%29

Look there if you want to.

Even if you are Robert, there's no reason for you to be town. Nice faking, but you're not fully telling the truth.

[edocsil]

So can we kill them both

[Commander9]

I have quite a bit of thoughts, but I don't have enough time to post coherently while I'm working. Later on tonight, however...

[Commander9]

Okay, first of all I shall say this - I'm almost 100% sure that both of the characters are in the game, so I think that their character claims are legit. Having said that, I'm somewhat unconvinced about their roles:

Now we can get to the mafia part - I do not believe that either of them is town. Having said that, however, I'm almost 100% sure that they're not mafia either... I've seen the film and my main conclusion is that they're both 3rd party (I do consider one of them to be a better person than other, but this is not significant enough), both with double votes and both have to kill each other to win (personal vendetta). Essentially, what this means to us is that neither of them would be good lynches and we are better off looking elsewhere. I somewhat hoped someone would hop into either wagon, but apparently that did not happen. Oh well...

[Streaker]

If their claimes are legit, and the assumption of them having to kill each other is correct, would that not make them harmless? They have the power to double vote, but if they are not town we don't have much use for it.

Lynching either would result in the other one 'winning'.

I'm low on time now, but I'll review later this weekend.

[spiesr]

I am a town double voter, but I was not the one who double voted for you. I strongly suspect it was Fir, as he is the Mafia Double Voter.

Were you actually told that this is his role?

Nice try trying to sacrifice me like that. However you don't seem to exactly be telling the truth. I looked up your character and the movie he's in to understand your claim and on the wiki I found this: "Film critic Matt Brunson observes a complex theme of duality exemplified by Angier and Borden, noting that the film chooses not to depict either magician as "good" or "evil."

First of all, did you use the extra vote that Violet says you have to hammer edocsil yesterday? If so, what were your reasons for doing so?

If their claimes are legit, and the assumption of them having to kill each other is correct, would that not make them harmless? They have the power to double vote, but if they are not town we don't have much use for it.

My guess is that they probably both have the same win condition of eliminating the other. I believe that before the game can end in a town victory, that one of them would have to eliminate the other. I don't think that they would be removed from the game should one of them win. So I supposed that we could lynch one of them today, but I don't see why we would waste the lynch. I don't think either of them would actually be scum.In fact, at this point I am pretty sure that this game does not contain an actually mafia faction.

[VioIet]

Since Fir is my rival/antagonist, I assumed as much. According to my role pm, he killed my wife, sabotaged all my acts to the point of even harming me, tried to steal my secrets. Basically he just seems like one big meanie. That sounds like mafia to me.

My role pm didn't say he's mafia- again its just my assumption/hunch. Also as I am a Double Voter and our roles seem to parallel, I am pretty sure that Fir is a double voter as well. my role pm vaguely said something about Alfred seeming to like Doubles- so i read between the lines- he has to be a double voter. And the one that voted for edoc twice.

Also i can confirm everything said about the win conditions.

I would like spiers to elaborate more on his theory that this game contains no actual mafia. I have only played one game like that- Crusades.
I think this theory is interesting, but i would need to see how Day 3 pans out for me to fully agree or disagree. If indeed there is no mafia faction, then there are probably one or two serial killer's out there- one a daykiller, one a nightkiller. And everyone else in the game is town and third party.

[Fircoal]

Since Fir is my rival/antagonist, I assumed as much. According to my role pm, he killed my wife, sabotaged all my acts to the point of even harming me, tried to steal my secrets. Basically he just seems like one big meanie. That sounds like mafia to me.

And according to me pm you blame me for the murder of your wife, and sabotaged my acts to the point of crippling my hand. As I said neither of us are good or evil.

[edocsil]

Since Fir is my rival/antagonist, I assumed as much. According to my role pm, he killed my wife, sabotaged all my acts to the point of even harming me, tried to steal my secrets. Basically he just seems like one big meanie. That sounds like mafia to me.

And according to me pm you blame me for the murder of your wife, and sabotaged my acts to the point of crippling my hand. As I said neither of us are good or evil.

Yes, but did you try to kill me?

[spiesr]

I would like spiers to elaborate more on his theory that this game contains no actual mafia. I have only played one game like that- Crusades.
I think this theory is interesting, but i would need to see how Day 3 pans out for me to fully agree or disagree. If indeed there is no mafia faction, then there are probably one or two serial killer's out there- one a daykiller, one a nightkiller. And everyone else in the game is town and third party.

If you look back to where safariguy illegally posting his win condition, you can see that he said something about players having vendetta's that need to be sorted before the town can win. My theory is that there isn't a normal mafia group in this game, but rather a SK or something and some players who aren't town, but rather have specific goals they have to achieve to win. The only objectives that I can think of now are killing a specific other player. Examples would be Leonard from Memento needing to get revenge and you and Fircoal needing to lynch each other. So in order for the town to win we need to get rid of the Joker and any other "real" threats and either have the objective players complete their tasks or die themselves. I am not sure what alignment/objectives Harvey Dent/Twoface would have, but I would guess that his continued survival isn't conducive to the town victory. The question is, is edocsil enough of a threat for us to lynch today, or should we try to find the Joker instead? Also, is it even possible to successfully lynch him today or would his lynch fail again?

[Commander9]

I actually agree with Spiesr - I'd expect 2 serial killers (day killer and night killer?) (or 1 SK and another anti-town role) and a very fractured town. As far as new leads go, edoc can be left alone for another day and since I missed with vio, I'd rather not be the one who makes the next case.

[pancakemix]

Deadline!

You have until May 3rd at 12:01 AM ET (GMT-4)

[spiesr]

Fircoal, please state whether or not you are actually a Double Voter, and if you used your extra vote to hammer yesterday...