Civilization Mafia - Town Victory!

[nagerous]

How is a typo a mistake. I have told people before that I make posts on iPad and iPhone so it likes to auto correct my posts before I press send and this has led to awkward conversations people here who have spoken to me on facebook can testify to this like callling Mandy 'dad' when I typed XD the phone sometimes has a mind of its own.

Benga yuh made the mistake one by skimming and not seeing I EBWOP'd straight away and secondly by thinking there is a doctor in the game when any town role will know that this is unlikely at this stage due to the 'building' element.

Secondly strike I am not sure what you mean by my defence? The character question was another test for benga which he failed by not answering it/dodging it. I was actually trying to help him out as if he wasn't lying which he clearly is he would have been able to give an answer to my 'character' question for which I used a deliberately ambiguous word. Again anyone who is town should be able to infer what I am referring to here and there is no necessity to spell it out for people at this stage in the game

[Minister Masket]

Vote Count:

dakky21 - 0
madmitch - 0
ga7 - 2 (Wing, madmitch)
skoffin - 0
strike wolf - 0
Samlen - 0
TimWoodbury - 1 (HotShot)
benga - 7 (nagerous, dakky, ga7, Fircoal, strike, Tim the Enchanter, Samlen)
Ragian - 0
nagerous - 0
Fircoal - 0
Skittles - 0
aage - 0
HotShot53 - 0
WingCmdr Ginkapo - 1 (aage)
Djfireside - 0

Players in BLUE are in a DoF and get +1 to lynch
Players in RED are in warfare and get a +3 to lynch
Players under BOTH are in purple and get the maximum +4 to lynch

There's no need to rush this.

Oooooooh, if only that were true.

On today (Tue) it takes 11 to Lynch!

[HotShot53]

With the countdown, it looks like benga will be lynched in a couple days unless a lot of people change their minds about their votes. At this point his survivor claim seems a possible reason for him being confused, although as others have said his claimed civ does seem a bit fishy, so it's not a bad lynch.

As for ga7, they haven't made up an excuse for not knowing the obvious yet, so I will unvote, vote ga7 while waiting for an explanation.

[Ragian]

I'd just like to add that dakky carried my sorry arse in the Pokemon game. He's not a bad mafia player. He's an eager beaver, though. Hotheaded even? I don't know. I don't think bad, however. I forgot if Benga actually said that dakky was bad. It was just the juxtaposition with Nag that I deduced it from.

Now, let's get ga7 in here before it's too late. vote ga7

It could be easily defused. No need to stay away.

[benga]

Interesting

How is a typo a mistake. I have told people before that I make posts on iPad and iPhone so it likes to auto correct my posts before I press send and this has led to awkward conversations people here who have spoken to me on facebook can testify to this like callling Mandy 'dad' when I typed XD the phone sometimes has a mind of its own.

I said 'mistake' not mistake, nice dodge here.

Benga yuh made the mistake one by skimming and not seeing I EBWOP'd straight away and secondly by thinking there is a doctor in the game when any town role will know that this is unlikely at this stage due to the 'building' element.

So did I made mistake or was I skimming? I already said it was honest pre-bedtime overlook to not see EBWOP, but that doesn't mean you did intentionally write it like that.

Secondly strike I am not sure what you mean by my defence? The character question was another test for benga which he failed by not answering it/dodging it. I was actually trying to help him out as if he wasn't lying which he clearly is he would have been able to give an answer to my 'character' question for which I used a deliberately ambiguous word. Again anyone who is town should be able to infer what I am referring to here and there is no necessity to spell it out for people at this stage in the game

Ambiguous and dodging.
This is what I am telling, not that dakky is bad player, but nag being extremely good mafia player, covering his ass and gaining validity without need of being straightforward. Smart!

Really don't understand why are you trying so hard to look like town and constantly dropping the t word around?

Up to now he is building his case on me with answering questions with question, using tricks and redirecting finger to me. I was honest, even when it hurt me (Germany) and he still needs to manipulate.

In his own words:

Mafia is a game of manipulation and subterfuge - people lie!

[TimWoodbury]

quite honestly benga i think your being a total shyt player right now you aint making any since at all talking about mistake or mistake its the same fucking thing.... he had a typo and corrected it minutes later. you responded to teh 1st post in the middle of the page and then decided oh i gotta go to bed instead of finishing the page thats what is total BS im not bealiveing your stupid dumb ass story at all. you called him on the typo hopeing that you could get away with it and then tomarrow say oh well he claimed doc so that must be why he died

[Djfireside]

Good Morrow fellow Civilizations. Look forward to forging the great world with you all.

In regards to current transgressions, I tend to side with Nag having a Typo as well since he has clearly stated why the typo would be such. It makes sense to me now for while I watched from afar I could not fully understand.

As for the minor civilization claim, while it fits the style since a minor civ would not follow normal paths of a standard civilization, I am a little weary of it to be stated. I am in agreement with others that lynching him currently will not gather any further information so I understand the push for knowledge and in agreement right now however I am on the side of if you are not with me you are against me so I will remain guarded against Benga but not push any hostilities as I am quite young to this council

I am also a little taken aback by Tim, despite his latest outburst, in all my readings they have been all over the board. Voting quickly on Nag for a statement that was easily dismissed but giving Benga a pass and claiming wont rush to a vote despite already doing so on Nag. Even gathered mitch's FOS as well for the actions.

For now I greet you and look forward to forging our empires

[benga]

quite honestly benga i think your being a total shyt player right now you aint making any since at all talking about mistake or mistake its the same fucking thing.... he had a typo and corrected it minutes later. you responded to teh 1st post in the middle of the page and then decided oh i gotta go to bed instead of finishing the page thats what is total BS im not bealiveing your stupid dumb ass story at all. you called him on the typo hopeing that you could get away with it and then tomarrow say oh well he claimed doc so that must be why he died

since you have no firm stance on anything at least you can be rude, good going!

[benga]

and btw I am not telling he is doc, but he seems to go over the top proving he is town

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

Nag. What is the difference between Benga and Ga7? Both made the same error, one has justified it, one hasnt.

So guys, still think my playstyle is unhelpful? Or do you realise how depressingly little information you lot have generated? Exception of Strikewolf who tried valiently for a short while.

[strike wolf]

Aage! Where are you? Same with Ga7 but everyone has already noted his absense.

@Wing: I'm still kind of in the early phase of setting up my own game but once I get a replacement in, it should settle in enough that I can put more effort in here again.

Unvote Benga I may go back to this. I can kinda buy his reasoning for the Dakky defense but then he goes back to looking like hes clutching at straws.

Upon rereading Ga, I do admit his initial doc mention in response to Benga's misrepresentation was a bit more damning than I remembered. He's also dead weight right now so I don't have as much hesitation as I had. Only point I'll give in his defense, I distinctly remember getting him mislynched because he was playing a bit too coy with his role before.

About Nag: his post was a bit dodgy in actually pinpointing info but it's actually more or less the answer I expected him to give. He's presented enough seeming town info and been helpful enough that I am not going to bash him over the head with it without a stronger overall case.

[benga]

Unvote Benga I may go back to this. I can kinda buy his reasoning for the Dakky defense but then he goes back to looking like hes clutching at straws.

I think that I have also pointed how case on me is based on straws. There lies all the irony of arguments presented against me.

[Ragian]

What does "irony of argument" mean?

[Samlen]

Unvote Benga I may go back to this. I can kinda buy his reasoning for the Dakky defense but then he goes back to looking like hes clutching at straws.

I think that I have also pointed how case on me is based on straws. There lies all the irony of arguments presented against me.

Hey, my argument isn't based on straws =p You claimed survivor and I see survivors as only detrimental to the town, hence my vote.

[dakky21]

Am I the only one to notice there were 12 posts since the last vote count on Tuesday?
BTW, on Tue it was 11 to lynch, today it should be 9... and since no one unvoted benga, he should be on L-2 by now.
So as I said, it's better to lynch a survivor than mislynch a town, I'll keep my vote there, but all of you should know that he will be lynched by Saturday if no one unvotes.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

Am I the only one to notice there were 12 posts since the last vote count on Tuesday?
BTW, on Tue it was 11 to lynch, today it should be 9... and since no one unvoted benga, he should be on L-2 by now.
So as I said, it's better to lynch a survivor than mislynch a town, I'll keep my vote there, but all of you should know that he will be lynched by Saturday if no one unvotes.

I have noticed. I also noticed that Strike unvoted.

So you know there is poor activity, and what do you do about it?

You say you are happy to lynch Benga becuase then we can see who has weak cases on D2 and lynch them. Well your case if absolute garbage. Yours is the weakest case of them all.

As people said before, lynching survivor is better than mis-lynching town. If benga is a survivor at all.

Of course, lynching scum would be ideal, but no one is going to claim scum, right? (just asking)

So me thinks something will come out of this lynch, at least we will see who was on the bandwagon and whose reasons were too weak. If Benga flips scum, then we'll at least know who didn't vote him and have another point of view.

[dakky21]

I have noticed. I also noticed that Strike unvoted.

So you know there is poor activity, and what do you do about it?

You say you are happy to lynch Benga becuase then we can see who has weak cases on D2 and lynch them. Well your case if absolute garbage. Yours is the weakest case of them all.

Why I'm saying this... is because Skoffin didn't post since Sunday. So it's 4 days without a post. And have a war with me. If you were scum, what would be the best protection for you? Of course, going in both peace and war.. which gives you +4 for the lynch... I don't like how Skoffin is playing this... and it's not just him/her, everyone is trying to lay low...

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

Oh so now you are building a case against Skoffin? Well thats a lot more productive than just moaning.

I might go to war with Benga soon.

Sigh, I am being aggressive again, and we know you all hate that. Back to being sedate.

[ga7]

Sorry for the inactivity folks, life sucks hard lately. On the positive side I have next week off and since my car broke down again right after being repaired I should have more time for mafia

I did read at some point but wasn't sure how to defend myself subtly because, and that's the most sense Wing has made all game:

You are asking me to help you out by being explicit and sharing info with scum?

That is what you are asking.

So no. I wont

Unfortunately some people who should be ashamed of themselves have been more explicit afterwards, which has zero upside for town. On the other hand, it seems finesse doesn't quite work? Because I honestly thought my answer was clear:

I was thinking in general fwiw, pointing out a possible doc claim is scummy even though it was clearly an erroneous claim

in general

erroneous

Pointing out a doc claim is, to me, a classic scumtell. I didn't even think about being discreet to be honest, it's just that I was already convinced benga wasn't town and his post was looking to me like such a kneejerk reaction that I had my own kneejerk reaction and associated it with mafia tells that work in general.

Side thing but rereading if you're going to go with that angle it doesn't make much sense to me that no one but mitch paid attention to Tim's initial response to the benga doc thing:

and also if he had in fact claimed doc why would you as town wanna point it out so quickly...cant be in towns interest to point that out as if he was doc he would be needed would he not be...you played enough that you would know not to point that out,However it can be looked at from the opposite side as skum you wouldnt wanna point it out either for the same reason i above pointed out. im unshure of you at the momemt and not going to rush a vote

@ Tim with your last statement to Benga ,I think you are also not a Nation and probally a scum partner with Benga. FOS TIM

For the record I don't actually think Tim is scum, but that was like an expanded and scummier version of my own doc comment

Anyway, before my original post on benga, there already were a couple of responses:

VOTE BENGA His statement to to Nag about being a docter shows he has not the same goals as we (town) do.

First off why do you think that Nag is claiming doctor? Doesn't that seem a bit weird? Mitch is correct here. There is no reason for another town member to expect a doc claim. So either you're trying to set a trap or you're clueless.

Second you didn't even bother to check Nag's second post which he corrected the typo. So if you're trying to set up a trap it's a pretty poor one. Explain just what you're trying to do here. What made you compelled to think that Nag is a doctor?

Because claiming as a doc seems like a weird claim to make, doesn't it?

Yes but within this set up a doctor claim at day 1 would make even less sense

I know what you're saying, I guess I just thought Benga also thought it didn't make any sense, thus resulting in the question. Obviously most think Benga instead just has no idea about the game setup, meaning he is likely scum, which combined with his other statements is possible. It's as good as any other day 1 case so far anyway

So at this point things were already quite explicit for anyone reading with a bit of sense that what benga did was weird for setup-related reasons. This might be too metagame argument, but I hope you would at least consider that I'm not a complete moron that if scum would ignore the problem that taking seriously a doc claim poses in this game, as pointed out by all these players before my own post.

@Benga: Misunderstanding the doc part isn't really a valid argument at this point as it would only apply if you were claiming to be town and the argument of you announcomg you thought someone soft claimed doc as being scummy for erroneously trying to out a doc is a small enough point that I dont really care right now. I am more of the position that a. Celts seems like a BS claim. B. The whole buddying up with Dakky thing was strange at best. I admit I don't fully know what to think about the Germany fake soft claim at this moment but defending a player seems like an awfully risky strategy for third party.

I agree with all points and benga's answer didn't make me think otherwise.
The repeated points about lynching a survivor being useless are misguided IMO, because I still think benga is way more likely to be scum than survivor and if it falls on the smaller possibility, we don't lose town either way. And I think now the info we'd get on that particular worst case scenario survivor lynch would be almost as useful as a town mislynch, because the wagon is still the wagon

Secondly strike I am not sure what you mean by my defence? The character question was another test for benga which he failed by not answering it/dodging it. I was actually trying to help him out as if he wasn't lying which he clearly is he would have been able to give an answer to my 'character' question for which I used a deliberately ambiguous word. Again anyone who is town should be able to infer what I am referring to here and there is no necessity to spell it out for people at this stage in the game

Benga never adressed this and I don't see why, if he's Celt, he shouldn't have one also? Well, that could go either way depending on the mod's laziness but still feels like yet another thing against him.

FOS Ragian, Skittles & Skoffin Side note cause I ran out of time but something to look at on day 2 cause I have a feeling I'll be NKed anyway so might as well share all my suspicions

[Ragian]

So... What are the fosses based on, then? Thinking that it's bad for town to lynch a survivor?

[nagerous]

Nag. What is the difference between Benga and Ga7? Both made the same error, one has justified it, one hasnt.

So guys, still think my playstyle is unhelpful? Or do you realise how depressingly little information you lot have generated? Exception of Strikewolf who tried valiently for a short while.

If Benga's answers had been remotely satisfactory to anything I asked him, I would have happily unvoted. Instead he mostly has just attacked me back. He can't hide all his cluelessness behind his fake claim. It wasn't just one error from him either there have been a number.

But by all means you seem convinced however so go to war with him if you feel it will benefit your long-term goals in this game.

My only concern is with the rapidly dropping Lynch count we could end up lynching the wrong person as the Mafia will garner more influence over the votes the less it takes to Lynch someone... Regardless voting analysis will play a key role later in the game. I am not seeing the case on ga7 personally and he explains himself very well in his post above...but then again I know him to be a very good Mafia player (when he bothers to show up and post at least)

[nagerous]

@nag
did you just claim doc? why would you do that?

Because Nag is not very good at mafia?

However, can you explain what leads you to believe that there is a Doc in the game D1?

not sure what you mean?

This was Benga's initial answer again to your question FYI. Seems scummy as f*ck personally.

[Fircoal]

Benga yuh made the mistake one by skimming and not seeing I EBWOP'd straight away and secondly by thinking there is a doctor in the game when any town role will know that this is unlikely at this stage due to the 'building' element.

So did I made mistake or was I skimming? I already said it was honest pre-bedtime overlook to not see EBWOP, but that doesn't mean you did intentionally write it like that.

Here's the thing I don't get benga. Why didn't you at least skim to the end to see if there was anything important said between then. I mean yes I understand going to bed early but with something like that (Espeically when it sounds so out of place) it makes sense to check to make sure that's what he really meant. It feels to me like you just saw a doc claim and jumped on it, trying to make a point of it. Which.. doesn't seem town like to me.

Good Morrow fellow Civilizations. Look forward to forging the great world with you all.

In regards to current transgressions, I tend to side with Nag having a Typo as well since he has clearly stated why the typo would be such. It makes sense to me now for while I watched from afar I could not fully understand.

As for the minor civilization claim, while it fits the style since a minor civ would not follow normal paths of a standard civilization, I am a little weary of it to be stated. I am in agreement with others that lynching him currently will not gather any further information so I understand the push for knowledge and in agreement right now however I am on the side of if you are not with me you are against me so I will remain guarded against Benga but not push any hostilities as I am quite young to this council

I am also a little taken aback by Tim, despite his latest outburst, in all my readings they have been all over the board. Voting quickly on Nag for a statement that was easily dismissed but giving Benga a pass and claiming wont rush to a vote despite already doing so on Nag. Even gathered mitch's FOS as well for the actions.

For now I greet you and look forward to forging our empires

Something feels off about this post. Nothing seems too ernonous in it but it feels too much like they're trying to play up the fact that they are a civilization instead of letting it flow into the conversation naturally. This post also feels pretty wishy washy to me. It is a first post so I'll give them that but it does it seems overly careful to me.

@nag
did you just claim doc? why would you do that?

Because Nag is not very good at mafia?

However, can you explain what leads you to believe that there is a Doc in the game D1?

not sure what you mean?

This was Benga's initial answer again to your question FYI. Seems scummy as f*ck personally.

The thing is that response is very easily explained by the fact that he is a survivor nation and wouldn't know.


Personally I think Frenchie-chan's response was rational and reasonable. I do feel like it's hard to skirt the lines of giving enough information away to let others know that you know and not giving enough away so that the mafia doesn't know. In his analysis of his prior post he points out pretty well where he was trying to hint, while also letting the natural scummiest of the claim be his guide. If there are two different paths to nail a scum and one relies on revealing info wouldn't it make sense to take the path that doesn't rely on it? Now I do think the other way was a more clear and concrete way of doing so, which is why it was the one picked, but I can understand a town member valuing secretsy. That said that's just my read based off of what he said.


If MM were to include 3rd party civs I don't understand why he wouldn't give them buildings as well. I mean it would at the very least spice up a very boring role. Look at Mandy's game and what it had. Survivors yes, but survivors with a power of sort. Considering this is pretty NV, a powerless survivor (with a odd claim like Celts) doesn't fit into what I would expect at all.

[Skoffin]

I have noticed. I also noticed that Strike unvoted.

So you know there is poor activity, and what do you do about it?

You say you are happy to lynch Benga becuase then we can see who has weak cases on D2 and lynch them. Well your case if absolute garbage. Yours is the weakest case of them all.

Why I'm saying this... is because Skoffin didn't post since Sunday. So it's 4 days without a post. And have a war with me. If you were scum, what would be the best protection for you? Of course, going in both peace and war.. which gives you +4 for the lynch... I don't like how Skoffin is playing this... and it's not just him/her, everyone is trying to lay low...

Well see now, I've learnt much since my last game; for example, I've learnt that if you post frequently and tend to make longer paragraphs for posts ( as opposed to mere sentences) it actually ceases to exist and counts for nothing, hence why I was accused of not only never posting last game, but being the least active player and using my gender to get away with it; and this despite literally being one of the most active players that game. Clearly that style of play was not beneficial to me or anyone else and thus I have amended my playstyle to match that of most other players. I am a team sport after all.

Now, do you really suspect me of using DOF/War to my advantage in this manner or do you merely wish to rtest my reaction? I will respond as if you do mean it, naturally;
Soz mate, but I'm not that ballsy (nothing to do with lacking balls, mind you) but mostly I wouldn't see any benefit. Maybe it could be bias, but I don't tend to see it likely that I will be the D1 lynch candidate when we have so many fine chaps to offer up first.
But I valiantly sacrificed myself to find out these negative consequences for town, and this is the thanks I get? Bah!
For the record, I still have not found out about any consequences.

In any case, to Benga!

Now clearly I still am weary of all the "lynch him he might just be a survivor' types (I'm looking at you, Samlen); as I said, I suspect we may have a vig at some point who can take him out, and frankly I'm surprised that no one else has considered this if they received the same role info that I did. For that that are considering him as a third party, why do you not want to see if we get a vig that can resolve this for us?

However, having said that, Benga seems adamant that he wants to look as fishy as possible.
What is the difference between mistake and 'mistake'?
You skimmed, and there's not much reason for it considering you only had to look one post down to correct yourself.
Harping on about Nag's typo is pointless; it was a typo and no amount of haranguing him about it is going to change his version of how the typo happened. But is your logic seriously that he went "herpderp lul I'm scum but I'm going to 'accidentally' slip doc in my post and then correct it next post hurrr"? You say he is a good maf player but then assign him the dumbest maf strategy, lolwhy?

Benga is pretty much running out of time here, in what - 2 days? - he is going to get lynched without any unvotes so I'll let him speak for himself a bit longer ehhh

The only thing I'll say for Benga is that I personally would not have made a Civ game and not have had town/maf be quite similar in how the roles worked, and third-party would make far more sense to not have knowledge of the basic town mechanics we all have. I've been playing civ all week and both you and your enemy nations spend time building up their civilisation and it's only unimportant city states that do not build themselves up.

I think Ga7's explanation of events is quite reasonable and should be satisfactory to most. However, I am a little surprised he included a FOS in my direction XD I'd like to know what the angle for that is, or whether it's a case of "and that's for not voting Benga straight away". Now Frenchie-chan, you aren't just FOSing me because somebody else just tried to make a case on me eh?


@Fircoal
As mentioned above, it actually makes more sense for third parties not to build as third parties cannot build in the actual game of civ. I personally think both scum/town can build but with some alterations.
Also, did you know that you are playing exactly the same here as you did in the last game?

Sorry for rambling and typing errors chaps; I starting correcting it but then went 'f*ck it, no one cares anyway yolo' and here we are.

[Fircoal]

I have noticed. I also noticed that Strike unvoted.

So you know there is poor activity, and what do you do about it?

You say you are happy to lynch Benga becuase then we can see who has weak cases on D2 and lynch them. Well your case if absolute garbage. Yours is the weakest case of them all.

Why I'm saying this... is because Skoffin didn't post since Sunday. So it's 4 days without a post. And have a war with me. If you were scum, what would be the best protection for you? Of course, going in both peace and war.. which gives you +4 for the lynch... I don't like how Skoffin is playing this... and it's not just him/her, everyone is trying to lay low...

@Fircoal
As mentioned above, it actually makes more sense for third parties not to build as third parties cannot build in the actual game of civ. I personally think both scum/town can build but with some alterations.
Also, did you know that you are playing exactly the same here as you did in the last game?

On the first point thank you I stand corrected. I've never played the game myself so it's helpful to know what happened in the game.

Am I? I wouldn't say exactly but I am acting similar. That said I feel like my big mistake last time was jumping onto a case that I didn't believe in because I thought the town would be all for it. I don't think I've done anything here for any reason like that. Do note that last game I was trying to appear town so I tried to act in a way I thought was town like, so more or less it's going to come off like how I play a town role. Sadly metagame isn't that helpful early on because it's hard to tell if something is there until a larger sample size. Since I haven't been confirmed town in any game here how is anyone to know how I act as confirmed town?