[Endgame] Firefly Mafia

[strike wolf]

So while we're waiting on a Naxus claim I'm going to throw in my 2-cents about Soundman.

So there's two possibilities, either Soundman is truly in-experienced, didn't know the proper vote count, and didn't know the danger of putting someone at L-1. Or he knew the correct vote count and jumped on Nag's miss-count to try for a quick lynch that he could explain later ("I didn't think it would lynch him, just put him at L-1").

Ok so he has done this a few times now presenting multiple options of what could be happening. I can't actually say it is a horrible thing and admittedly this is a bit of a metagame speculation argument but I mostly see scum talk in this sort of fashion as it tends to leave the door open for an excuse if the wagon falls through or someone calls him out on it. States this as it looks like the soundman wagon may pick up steam.

I think it's important to put forward multiple options, I'm not going to commit to one thing when I know the other may possibly be true as well (of course you need to have conviction, but blind conviction is very stupid). If I was trying to get on-board the soundwagon I would have gone through and made a bigger case against him, put a vote on him and would have pressured more seriously after Nax claimed.[/quote] well you did kind of get on the soundwagon and the way you jumped on it made it sound like you expected it to be the next wagon if or when the naxus wagon fell through which it probably would have if it hadn't been for fircoal's odd comment.

As far as lynching an inactive, it is easy. It doesn't require much effort in building a case and if the person comes back or is replaced, it is very easy to jump off with a weak excuse. It doesn't require much effort or work which scum tend to like as it means less to have to defend themselves for afterwards.

As far as jeraado it is a somewhat borderline issue and I will not say he should be blacklisted yet but he has been around long enough that he should be beginning to realize the amount of effort that is expected of players in a mafia game and if he cannot match a passable level of participation than he shouldn't be joining more than one game at a time.

[Talapus]

First off, HEY ALL. Long time no see. Second off, I confirm. Give me some time and I'll read up on the happenings of this game. 21 pages shouldn't take too long. I'll post my opinions soon.

[safariguy5]

First off, HEY ALL. Long time no see. Second off, I confirm. Give me some time and I'll read up on the happenings of this game. 21 pages shouldn't take too long. I'll post my opinions soon.

Welcome back Tal, deja vu, someone restarted your Clue Mafia theme.

[strike wolf]

First off, HEY ALL. Long time no see. Second off, I confirm. Give me some time and I'll read up on the happenings of this game. 21 pages shouldn't take too long. I'll post my opinions soon.

Says the man unaware of the multiple multiple page long posts. welcome back to cc mafia tal.

[edocsil]

First off, HEY ALL. Long time no see. Second off, I confirm. Give me some time and I'll read up on the happenings of this game. 21 pages shouldn't take too long. I'll post my opinions soon.

Lol, have fun reading. He replaces Jeraado.

[Talapus]

First off, HEY ALL. Long time no see. Second off, I confirm. Give me some time and I'll read up on the happenings of this game. 21 pages shouldn't take too long. I'll post my opinions soon.

Welcome back Tal, deja vu, someone restarted your Clue Mafia theme.

I know, best of luck to that mod too. I had huge hopes for that game but it just died in the water. Too grand a scheme for too little activity at a time....alas. Maybe next time though. And only up to page 12, you guys seem to focus a lot with this joke voting thing. Nice to see things haven't changed around here...lol

[Fircoal]

First off, HEY ALL. Long time no see. Second off, I confirm. Give me some time and I'll read up on the happenings of this game. 21 pages shouldn't take too long. I'll post my opinions soon.

Welcome back Tal, deja vu, someone restarted your Clue Mafia theme.

I know, best of luck to that mod too. I had huge hopes for that game but it just died in the water. Too grand a scheme for too little activity at a time....alas. Maybe next time though. And only up to page 12, you guys seem to focus a lot with this joke voting thing. Nice to see things haven't changed around here...lol

BUT GUESS WHAT HAS CHANGE!!!

[Talapus]

BUT GUESS WHAT HAS CHANGE!!!

Some lunatic put you in a position of power....Believe me, I've been quaking with fear ever since I returned . The mod gods must have a sense of humor.

[Anarkistsdream]

BUT GUESS WHAT HAS CHANGE!!!

Some lunatic put you in a position of power....Believe me, I've been quaking with fear ever since I returned . The mod gods must have a sense of humor.

Another thing changed! I'm not a cook anymore!

[Talapus]

Ok, so I was finally able to reread and get caught up. I see now that the player I replaced contributed almost nothing so by this post alone I equal and exceed that expectation...lol .

First off, the Naxus votes were for the right reasons that I could see and with no counter claim, there is no reason to persue him.

Secondly, Fircoal's game has been way off in this game. No idea what he's been thinking, but before his claim all the suspicion was very well placed. The jumping to conclusions and twisting of words we've all come to suspect, but the massive argument he made for his own defense was so uncharacteristic I was shocked. Not your "A" game here chu. And although I believe the claim you made as no one has come forward to say otherwise, I certainly hope your playstyle improves from what I read in the first 20 pages.

Vio - As of right now I'm not sure what to think about you. At the start of the game you made an argument and seemed to be contributing and then got mixed up with arguing with iliad which seemed more then anything, just a distraction. You've focused on it quite a bit in fact when no others are really giving it much thought and you haven't put much else out there since. In my experience, you started off on the right foot and played the part of a concerned town member which is always a great way to get conversations rolling. Though I fail to see the importance with continuing this bickering with iliad when it's not solving anything. The points iliad brought forward against you were valid observations or at least enough to merit notice. However for all the discussing you are doing with him back and forth I fail to see you bring much else to the table for the rest of us to discuss. You only really made one more point about another player while once again letting us know your discussion with iliad is "on hold" because hes away and busy with finals. You think you've cleared yourself and explained your actions satisfactorily enough, so why keep responding to him when no one else gives the argument between you two much merit. In my experience, players with a role to hide are the only ones truly concerned about the half cocked notions of another player. So tell me this, why aren't you scum?

Mandy - Get your ass in here and argue. Seriously dude we need a bit more to go on then 3 or 4 one sentence statements.

Safari - Really man, really?!? Lets lynch the inactives? With some great arguments and two town claims you come in and decide the next best move is to lynch someone who isn't active. Replace first, if that doesn't work then replace again. Lynching an inactive though is always the last choice and worst choice usually. You've been around long enough to know that... . Also, Streaker brought forth a fairly long argument against you, thoughts and responses? Additionally you reiterate that Nark is on your radar and mention and earlier case which no one really paid attetion too at the time. Well, with the two biggest arguments out of the way and presumably solved at the moment, it sounds like a good time to bring it forth again. Just a thought.

Soundman - I will chalk up your faux pas to being a newer player to mafia, however that behavior is very dangerous in games such as these.

shaggy - Nice rebuttal dude. I must say that players made some decent arguments against you and you seemed to tackle the concerns head on. Which for a newer player(I assume you are as your comments definitely suggest so) is impressive. Doesn't put you in the clear, but your answers you gave make it so as not to get my vote for the time being.

In general it sucks coming into the game when I did as most of the strong arguments have been currently resolved. I would really like a hear from a few more players a bit more as it will hellp keep the discussions going. But for now I'm going to Vote: Violet as her play style in general is very suspicious. I see no need to continue bickering with iliad(Who can be extremely argumentative anyway) when no one else seems to care. That and the fact that you have to remind us your "discussion" with him isn't over yet seems a very deliberate distraction.

[safariguy5]

Alright, first off my apologies for the small absence. Just finished rereading.

About flavour: It is possible mafia has been provided fake claims, but I doubt any of the main characters would be fake. Both claims so far could easily be considered main characters. Any fake claims are likely to be characters encountered on 'sidetrack stories'. I made a list of likely town roles, and likely mafia roles, as well as possible fake claims.

Ofcourse, I won't be providing them here

Now, I'm not sure what the best next course of action is. With a couple outed (likely) town roles, we should watch out. On the other hand, going no lynch would only serve mafia at this point. So following safari and going for an inactive jeraado lynch seems a viable option.

However, safari himself might prove to be the best lead.

This little Iliad/Vio tiff is interesting and we can definitely revisit it later, but I'm having a hard time buying this nag/fircoal stuff. We know chu likes to take little experiments and see who bites. By his behavior, I could possibly see it as a gamble to draw out scum, and as I have indicated, we had at least 1 bandwagonner to nag's original suspicion of chu. I don't fault nag for being suspicious of chu, but the clearest choice right now would be to go for the people who were caught by the apparent shift in bandwagon pressure.

After the big 'debates', safari comes in with a statement on how interesting discussion has been. He also says it's not worth going into deeper at the moment. He thinks we should go after the bandwagon shifters. Safari doesn't even provide a name to back up his statement.

I said that the bandwagonners were strike and nark. I thought more clarification wouldn't be necessary.

Although it is a valid point about nag nearly hammering naxus save for a somewhat fortunate invalid vote. I think that while the part in fircoal's argument about activity to be absolutely worthless, I feel like it's more a shouting match between nag and fircoal more than it is solid evidence. Vote pattern wise, I think nag might have tried to stealth hammer and missed the opportunity. I'll take up this nark case later then as I think the wagon hopping was a weak evidence base to begin with by nag initially that was strengthened later by fircoal's actions. So I will unvote for now while I wait for some explanation for that almost hammer.

Seemingly disposing of his last post, he doesn't look to interested in hunting out those bandwagoners he mentioned earlier. Simply unvoting.

Because again, nobody seemed to notice that possibility.

Man I feel like this game is getting nowhere. I personally would like to see a deadline. It's interesting looking at shaggy's posts, on the one hand, it seems like he's trying to helpful and townish, but on the other hand, you don't see him really putting much conviction into his arguments. And it seems like he's being opportunistic with the fircoal case, trying to mask his voting pattern in popular sentiment. Looks like scum trying to hide as useful townie to me.

vote Shaggy

This post is made right after naxus votes shaggy for scummaring, and I point out some odd behaviour from shaggy.
I don't know what game safari has been reading, but this one is full of leads for a Day 1. Not what I would call 'going nowhere fast'.

He seems very opportunistic to vote shaggy, right after pressure began on shaggy. Again disregarding his previous post where he wants to hunt down those bandwagoners, he is now doing the very thing he wanted to get a lynch for. Also, nice double standard here when calling shaggy out for not putting enough conviction into his arguments
Really, safari is all over the place here.

Last post he made safari jumps to voting inactive jeraado. By itself nothing wrong with that, but there is still plenty time left for discussion.

So safari has been trying to break up discussion, directing attention to bandwagoners without making an actual case, then bandwagoning himself. More then enough reasons to warant a Day 1 vote...

Vote safari

So basically, you're just giving 3 different reasons for why I didn't pursue the bandwagonners more strongly.

The two people who jumped on fircoal right after naxus claimed and nag jumped on him for the continued insistence on lynching naxus were Nark and strike wolf.

I was suspicious of strike wolf, but he did bring out posts where he didn't trust fircoal.

So a proper case on Nark, partly for his rather minimal contributions.

Unvote
Vote: Fircoal...

Joke vote stage needs to end, and you and Sheep are the two acting most insane.

The first serious vote he has, not much reasoning or substance, something of a gut feeling vote.

Naxus and Iliad are by far the best two targets.

Sheep is just a psycho.

Unfortunately, I just don't know which one of the two is a better target. I really liked Commander's points in the last few pages, but Violet makes a good point now.

I can't remember who I voted last, and there has been no recent vote count.

Unvote
Vote: Naxus

Brings up sheep as someone on his radar, does not elaborate. Seems to believe that Vio's case on iliad was valid, although it was rather apparent that nobody else thought so and the lack of support. Then just jumps on naxus for apparently no reason besides bandwagonning.

Yep... I know I'm not Simon Tam and he is a pretty for sure character to be in the game.

Unvote
Vote: Fircoal

And then jumping on the second bandwagon that formed. When accused of bandwagonning, this is what he had to say...

While I am very glad Fircoal made such a long post, I also think it actually makes him look more scummy by using circular logic and double-speak.

As for my hopping on the bandwagon for it, hell yeah... Anybody that vote's second or third can't be construed as "hopping on the bandwagon." It is just a vote made from stable cases. Having never seen the show or movie version, I have little to base any accusations on, and as some people have more knowledge, I am more inclined to believe them.

On some level, jumping on the bandwagon early might be less scummy than jumping on it late, but do it enough times with no justification and it doesn't matter when you jump on it. Don't use the "solid case" to justify your reasons, especially since you didn't bring any new leads about anyone else besides some vague statement about sheep and iliad.

So pretty blatant bandwagonning and no real justification for either. Busy irl is one thing, but we're all "busy" on some level and a "solid case" probably won't exist on Day 1 unless someone makes a massive scumtell. What really tripped my scumdar was the apparent bandwagon hopping from naxus to fircoal especially since I agreed with fircoal that naxus played really scummy and understand why chu might have tried to press for a lynch out of principle.

unvote vote Nark

[Talapus]

Another thing changed! I'm not a cook anymore!

True, but it only takes a few loses in a row to fall back into your comfort zone.....lol

[Fircoal]

Secondly, Fircoal's game has been way off in this game. No idea what he's been thinking, but before his claim all the suspicion was very well placed. The jumping to conclusions and twisting of words we've all come to suspect, but the massive argument he made for his own defense was so uncharacteristic I was shocked. Not your "A" game here chu. And although I believe the claim you made as no one has come forward to say otherwise, I certainly hope your playstyle improves from what I read in the first 20 pages.

While I agree that this wasn't my A game. (In fact I believe I said I played stupidly quite a bit already.) But how was my defense uncharacteristic? I AM CONFUSE. EXPLAIN TO ME BECAUSE I LIKE TO HEAR ABOUT MYSELF.

[Anarkistsdream]

I am Cobb, Jayne...

Apparently a rather rugged individual...

[DoomYoshi]

WTH???

[ShaggyDan]

.. so we have a quick claim after very little pressure? I honestly hope this is a joke.

The situation makes me think it's BS. Even if the claim is to be believed; Jayne's allegiences were shown to be controlled more by money than loyalty (though I personally would have thought he'd be town I'm not going to discount the idea he could be a third party killer, or possibly a town traitor to the 'blue hands' if they're in it). If he's not harmful to town he's most likely vig or PGO I guess...

Huge FOS on Anarkistsdream for the sole reason I don't know how many votes he has yet. If he's not on L-2 or L-1 that would have been a vote. Please explain why you claimed.

[Fircoal]

.. so we have a quick claim after very little pressure? I honestly hope this is a joke.

Huge FOS on Anarkistsdream for the sole reason I don't know how many votes he has yet. If he's not on L-2 or L-1 that would have been a vote. Please explain why you claimed.

If he's at very little pressure than he isn't at L-2 or L-1 as those are quite pressure riden.

[ShaggyDan]

I meant pressure as in pressure for a claim or discussion about him, not voting pressure. Some votes may have sneaked through or been left over. I'll wait for a vote-count just in case because I've been known to miscount in the past when I've tried to do it myself .

[edocsil]

i AM wAYY to drunk to gt a VC right now, but it looks like he was at l-about 6 officalish count later.

[Fircoal]

i AM wAYY to drunk to gt a VC right now, but it looks like he was at l-about 6 officalish count later.

I think you should do some posting around the fora. So we can all laugh at your drunkness

[edocsil]

i AM wAYY to drunk to gt a VC right now, but it looks like he was at l-about 6 officalish count later.

I think you should do some posting around the fora. So we can all laugh at your drunkness

Will do, but I stopped about an hour abo, I am molsty back in control. I notice my typing hasn't improved.

[Streaker]

I am Cobb, Jayne...

Apparently a rather rugged individual...

Yes, it appears you are rather rugged indeed!
How exactly are you helping town with this claim?
After 2 pro-town roles been outed already, you decide to claim another main character just like that? Do you honestly believe we should just all claim when brought under pressure, instead of mounting an actual defense?

As good as the claim might be, you should probably be hung just for that...

[safariguy5]

.. so we have a quick claim after very little pressure? I honestly hope this is a joke.

Huge FOS on Anarkistsdream for the sole reason I don't know how many votes he has yet. If he's not on L-2 or L-1 that would have been a vote. Please explain why you claimed.

If he's at very little pressure than he isn't at L-2 or L-1 as those are quite pressure riden.

I'm pretty sure that it had only been me and maybe someone left over from the joke vote stage at the time. And I presented the case as just a possible new lead. I'm confused by the timing of the claim.

[mandalorian2298]

Tal is back, yay. Ok, I'll post something meaningful in the next 12 hours.

[strike wolf]

So I decide to sleep in and we had a quick claim under little pressure...

As much as you defended it there shaggy that was a relevant point just made about you not knowing the count. You can't know if it was a quick claim unless you know the count which is another reason not to skim.