The Murder Of Albarezzi- End Game- Mafia Wins!

[Commander9]

What my personal opinions considering Spiesr alignment are irrelevant. It is the fact that I said one of Spiesr's actions was pro town, and then Yoshi IMO emulated it.

I don't think I agree here, Edoc. In a meta game like this everything matters and your personal opinions can sometimes give away quite a bit. I'd even go as far to say that Yoshi emulation is less important, because we already know that he looks scummy and that we don't quite trust him.

[/]

I think Yoshi's claim is likely legit.
I have never played with him so I can't say how he usually plays, but despite his newbieness in some areas, he does seem to think out some strategy, if he isn't the town jester (somewhat unlikely as no jester would claim doc unless they thought they would be counterclaimed) then he would not use this tactic as scum.
For one if anyone reasonable fakeclaimed doc they wouldn't say pointless "suspect me" things like "I lost my role PM" like spiesr was saying, it isn't that hard to pick out two italian sounding words out of the online name dictionary.

Also if you are scum it is generally ill advised to spew random flavor with a solid claim like doc, why would "I am in the witness protection program" make us think any less than he was involved in murders? Therefor if he really was involved in murders I would just say I was generic doc #15749826 that works in the local clinic helping patients blah blah blah. I know it's tilting slightly towards WIFOM at that point, but still, it's an interesting (*cough*bad*cough) tactic for scum, unless he is trying to get the real doc to claim? I don't really see the importance of that though in a small game.

As for his sanity as a doc, I'm pretty sure multiple killers + busted doc + 11 players is too horrible for any non-RT, Sax said the game is tested, I'd like to believe it worked on more than blind random luck.

[Commander9]

Not necessarily - especially if there's a jailkeeper around. I think you can still balance out the game to include an insane doc.

[/]

Not necessarily - especially if there's a jailkeeper around. I think you can still balance out the game to include an insane doc.

But jailkeeping means that you are in essence removing whomever needs to be saved from the game that night. If we ever have a claimed cop we either leave him with no protection, or block his role, good for some situations, but not great for completely replacing the doc.
Actually, who uses doc sanities? I can't even remember seeing any on CC other than fircoal's recent experimental role mafia, other than the occasional CPR Doc who is always told their role anyways.

[pancakemix]

Jailkeeper and paranoid doc are the same thing. I agree though, in this situation it doesn't seem right. But since he actually isn't insane (he only said he disguised himself to hide from killers), this is kinda a moot point.

[safariguy5]

I have modded games where I use Mafia Framer (See Tarantino). Therefore, using "frame" makes it seem like Yoshi was talking about framing as the role to me.

"I've used framer before, therefore he must have meant framer"? That really doesn't make sense, and still doesn't explain why you didn't say "Why do you think there's a framer?" or something to that effect. Plus, if you had actually read what he was saying, you would see that wouldn't make sense and that there was no WIFOM. So you either skimmed or were just looking for a reason to attack him, which is scummy any way you look at it. The framer thing just adds to it.

Also PCM, I was the one who initiated the case on Yoshi and also the one who voted him first. You can't bandwagon on someone if you're the first person to vote him. FOS PCM.

Nice OMGUS. And yeah, I noticed you started the wagon. You were very adamant about it. Through two bandwagons you wanted to lynch him and you got your chance when there wasn't a case on the table.

And how exactly are we suddenly so sure that it could be a three faction game? We're basing our assumption on NK's and protection roles based on the mod's background? While it's plausible, I'm sticking by my guns here and saying that we shouldn't speculate about what factions there may or may not be based on such evidence. 1 night should shake out how many killing roles there are.

All I was saying was that it was a logical conclusion based on the evidence. Nothing more.

And so basically PCM is saying that the strongest piece of evidence on me is what he reads as a Freudian Slip about how the mafia have a framer. As I indicated in the first lines, I usually read "frame" as the role, so call it a misinterpretation of diction. I don't know whether the mafia has a framer, and we probably wouldn't find out.

Isn't a Freudian slip supposed to be what you're actually thinking? Which would mean that it's true? (I could be wrong on that, but that's what I thought at least). And that's not the reason you gave before. "I've used it before" and "I usually read it that way" don't belong. And it still doesn't explain why you didn't question him and why you didn't read it properly in context. You really can't justify this.

However, as we apparently seem to have outed half of the town power roles, I feel that any more unnecessary wagons on more people may lead to collateral damage. Assuming that everyone before me is telling the truth, then I'm probably the least valuable person to have come under fire so far. So in the interests of the town, I'll claim now, and if everyone wants to lynch me, I rest assured that the people with the power roles will have some likely targets in the night and the protective roles will know who to protect and we should find out who's lying relatively soon.

I am Sergio Russo, Town Busdriver.

Not even a defense and you're claiming? I don't buy it. You brought it out way too fast for it to be real. Anyone think about the possibility of mafia being given fake claims?

What's the mafia going to do? target a busdriver when (if we are going to believe these claims) there's a vig, JOAT, doc, and cop out there? Trust me, I'm pretty sure I'm low on the priority list. And if they do kill me, 1 extra night for a guilty investigation. If we need a lynch today, then I gladly take 1 for the team in the hopes of the fakeclaims that could be out there identified quickly and no more townies exposed.

Wait, now you believe Yoshi's claim? You seemed to doubt it before. Show me where Vic claimed cop, I must have missed that while I combed the whole thread. And why the hell do you believe Nark? You take these claims for granted; is it because you know they're true (or they're your scum partner and you need to help their fake claim)? Not to mention you're just clearing a path for yourself to live long and prosper.

I don't like it. As it is, my vote stands. If saf turns up scum, Nark is next.

Apparently, something about Yoshi's play has got you all convinced he's town. I was picking up suspicious posts before I seriously brought the case out against him. Besides, what happens Day 1 besides people putting pressure on someone and forcing a claim? Is there really any other way to proceed to a lynch? I'm perfectly happy to back off when someone claims a possible town power role. Now Victor didn't say he was cop, but edoc said he was backup to Victor. Since we also have a doc, what other role would be most likely for a backup? As for the main case, we're arguing over the use of the word "framer". If you really think that's enough of a case to lynch me, then do so. I was merely commenting on how me claiming now shouldn't affect who the mafia is going to target anyways, and since you seem to believe Yoshi's claim, I was operating under the assumption that I was the scummiest person you found, which would mean you accept Nark's claim too. Or are you just voting for the most convenient person who you believe is going to lead to a lynch.

And when you really think about it, edoc requesting that I not use my ability makes me a VT for all intents and purposes for now anyways.

And I'm happy Yoshi's going to be strung up tomorrow for killing a townie today. I'm sorry, but I really think you misplayed this one Yoshi.

[spiesr]

Jailkeeper and paranoid doc are the same thing. I agree though, in this situation it doesn't seem right. But since he actually isn't insane (he only said he disguised himself to hide from killers), this is kinda a moot point.

One thing the I notice now is how DoomYoshi's flavor could fit nicely into a paranoid doc. On the other hand, I don't really recall any instance of paranoid docs and the jailkeeper variant where the player knows of their blocking function is far more common around here.

As for his sanity as a doc, I'm pretty sure multiple killers + busted doc + 11 players is too horrible for any non-RT, Sax said the game is tested, I'd like to believe it worked on more than blind random luck.

Looking at this, I am not quite sold on the ideal of multiple killers at this point. I know the intro scene implies lots of stuff, but I don't see there being two mafia factions in this game. Another thing that I am not sold on is AD's claim. Looking back at this now,I think we may have made a mistake by backing away from that case and, while I know this sounds like diverting attention, I think that we should go back. It seriously looks like the best case that we had this day. I may be insane, but in no way do I find AD's claim believable at his point. My offer to hammer him still stands, as if by some chance he is the bomb that destroys the world, I want to be the guy to push the button...

[pancakemix]

Another thing that I am not sold on is AD's claim. Looking back at this now,I think we may have made a mistake by backing away from that case and, while I know this sounds like diverting attention, I think that we should go back. It seriously looks like the best case that we had this day. I may be insane, but in no way do I find AD's claim believable at his point. My offer to hammer him still stands, as if by some chance he is the bomb that destroys the world, I want to be the guy to push the button...

Sorta my fault for suggesting Jester. I never was able to fit it in logically. On the other hand, safari took the opportunity to attack Yoshi. So that kind of leaves us with a few problems.

@Saf: All I did was read his posts like this person doesn't know what they're doing. And otherwise, they just don't make sense. I still don't recall any point at which edoc claimed backup. If you don't provide it I'm going looking tomorrow, and then you'll get another long post and be sorry.

But I really don't get why you not only tender the possibility that Nark's claim is even viable, you use it to justify your arguments on Yoshi. Make no mistake, I have made my opinions on Nark very clear. You seem to waffle and dig in on Yoshi any chance you get any way you can get at him.

And I think you really missed the point of my long post. You focus on the framer case, and that's important for a number of reasons yes, but it's really an overarching analysis of patterns in gameplay for both you and Yoshi. The results are very telling. Yoshi's comes across as bumbling, yet sincere. Yours is aggressive, and based on faulty logic.

(I should really try to tone it down. I think I scare people away...)

[DoomYoshi]

I'm not scared.

[safariguy5]

I don't care to explain much as there really is no point, the case is minor. Basically he is my father, and I am told he is a good guy. I know his role, and deem him worthy of a doc protection tonight.

Hmmm, mason claim... Okay, I'd suggest someone would track them (if we have a tracker), but I can understand why you were so defencive of Sully for the whole game. I will buy this... for now.

I read this as not a mason claim because Victor wouldn't be worth a doc protect if he were just a mason. Therefore, edoc is trying to prod everyone into believe Victor is a cop without telegraphing to the mafia that Victor is the cop. And if edoc knows that Victor is a cop and is his father, then I see it likely that edoc is his deputy. Again, drawing on my own modding experience (Tarantino), backups tend to be either cop or doc backups. I'm leaning cop.

And sue me if I'm being aggressive here. Frenchie-chan building cases on someone the entire Platoon game is just standard behavior and I can't play aggressive every now and then? I'm not a power town role, and I felt that we probably have a couple scum lying right now, but I can't definitively point out who's lying. Lies tend to unravel with contradictory night actions, and I'm pretty sure we can get the liars in 1 or town rounds of night actions. You have to adjust your play style to the game you're playing, and I think this warrants some aggressive pushing on the person who I think is scum.

[DoomYoshi]

Who is frenchie-chan? He is not on the player list for the Platoon mafia.

[safariguy5]

Who is frenchie-chan? He is not on the player list for the Platoon mafia.

That's our nickname for ga7.

[edocsil]

I read this as not a mason claim because Victor wouldn't be worth a doc protect if he were just a mason. Therefore, edoc is trying to prod everyone into believe Victor is a cop without telegraphing to the mafia that Victor is the cop. And if edoc knows that Victor is a cop and is his father, then I see it likely that edoc is his deputy. Again, drawing on my own modding experience (Tarantino), backups tend to be either cop or doc backups. I'm leaning cop.

Well I guess the cat is out of the bag on this one. The only correction I have to make is I am a tracker, not a backup. I really wish this hadn't come out so early, but I really don't see how it could have played out different. Damn victor for not being active.

[Commander9]

Looking at this, I am not quite sold on the ideal of multiple killers at this point. I know the intro scene implies lots of stuff, but I don't see there being two mafia factions in this game. Another thing that I am not sold on is AD's claim. Looking back at this now,I think we may have made a mistake by backing away from that case and, while I know this sounds like diverting attention, I think that we should go back. It seriously looks like the best case that we had this day. I may be insane, but in no way do I find AD's claim believable at his point. My offer to hammer him still stands, as if by some chance he is the bomb that destroys the world, I want to be the guy to push the button...

I think I've got to agree here - we've had a lot of cases here, but AD's was by far the strongest and his claim leaves a lot for us to desire... It's just too... convenient.

I read this as not a mason claim because Victor wouldn't be worth a doc protect if he were just a mason. Therefore, edoc is trying to prod everyone into believe Victor is a cop without telegraphing to the mafia that Victor is the cop. And if edoc knows that Victor is a cop and is his father, then I see it likely that edoc is his deputy. Again, drawing on my own modding experience (Tarantino), backups tend to be either cop or doc backups. I'm leaning cop.

*sighs* was this really necessary at this moment? Why spell it out?...

[edocsil]

I read this as not a mason claim because Victor wouldn't be worth a doc protect if he were just a mason. Therefore, edoc is trying to prod everyone into believe Victor is a cop without telegraphing to the mafia that Victor is the cop. And if edoc knows that Victor is a cop and is his father, then I see it likely that edoc is his deputy. Again, drawing on my own modding experience (Tarantino), backups tend to be either cop or doc backups. I'm leaning cop.

*sighs* was this really necessary at this moment? Why spell it out?...

What I want to know is how Violet noticed it right away, she even included Vic's role in her analysis. I for one would like an explanation from her. Why if you noticed it did you include it, or if you knew beforehand about Vic why did you make it public?

Safari mentioning it might have been the best possible course, if the scum were observant they would have likely caught on too. Debatable.

[Commander9]

What I want to know is how Violet noticed it right away, she even included Vic's role in her analysis. I for one would like an explanation from her. Why if you noticed it did you include it, or if you knew beforehand about Vic why did you make it public?

Safari mentioning it might have been the best possible course, if the scum were observant they would have likely caught on too. Debatable.

Disagreed. Just because Vio said that didn't mean it was true one bit - it was highly speculative then.

[edocsil]

What I want to know is how Violet noticed it right away, she even included Vic's role in her analysis. I for one would like an explanation from her. Why if you noticed it did you include it, or if you knew beforehand about Vic why did you make it public?

Safari mentioning it might have been the best possible course, if the scum were observant they would have likely caught on too. Debatable.

Disagreed. Just because Vio said that didn't mean it was true one bit - it was highly speculative then.

But what other role is worth protecting? What could possible be more important then a Vig and is not a doc? My role was still gray, but I don't think his was.

[Commander9]

But what other role is worth protecting? What could possible be more important then a Vig and is not a doc? My role was still gray, but I don't think his was.

Well, JOAT can sometimes be more valuable than a cop, IMO. However, point taken and conceded.

[VioIet]

Well, that is a hard question to answer.

Back a few pages ago I gave a list of all the players in the game and what their claimed roles were. I did this so we can get an idea of how many claimed, what they claimed, who was unclaimed, and to get a better idea of who might be scum.

I had no knowledge of edoc and Victor's role before the game, however once edoc defended victor- it became apparently clear to me.

In my original role in the Quentin mafia, I was a deputy and edoc was my father. I refused to claim and ended up getting axed. But when edoc spoke- it brought me back to my original role in that game, and I could just read between the lines.

I also thought it was common knowledge, or at least understood amongst the majority of us. I felt this way because many people started to take their votes off Victor.

I didn't think much of it when I started to make my list.

Unvote
Vote Drabod

[Commander9]

Well, that is a hard question to answer.

Back a few pages ago I gave a list of all the players in the game and what their claimed roles were. I did this so we can get an idea of how many claimed, what they claimed, who was unclaimed, and to get a better idea of who might be scum.

I had no knowledge of edoc and Victor's role before the game, however once edoc defended victor- it became apparently clear to me.

In my original role in the Quentin mafia, I was a deputy and edoc was my father. I refused to claim and ended up getting axed. But when edoc spoke- it brought me back to my original role in that game, and I could just read between the lines.

I also thought it was common knowledge, or at least understood amongst the majority of us. I felt this way because many people started to take their votes off Victor.

I didn't think much of it when I started to make my list.

Unvote
Vote Drabod

I suspected as much, but I still don't think it was necessary. Oh well...

Also, screw it - this is not going anywhere. There's no way everyone who has claimed can have told the truth and Anark's claim was the shakiest. Unvote. Vote AD. If he flips town, you can lynch me.

Could we get a vote count, please?

[TheSaxlad]

Vote Count

1. Nark(2- safari,commander)
2. Commander (1-spiesr)
3. Pancake
4. Safari (1-pcm,)
5. spiesr
6. Vi
7. Edoc
8. /
9. drabod (1-vi)
10. Sully (1-nark)
11. Yoshi (4-yoshi, drabod,sully,edocsil)

11 Alive, 6 To Lynch.

Mod - Vote count please

Sorry I didnt get back to this sooner. Please correct this as needed.

[pancakemix]

Also, screw it - this is not going anywhere. There's no way everyone who has claimed can have told the truth and Anark's claim was the shakiest. Unvote. Vote AD. If he flips town, you can lynch me.

Could we get a vote count, please?

I have to agree. My reluctance to vote nark was based on my jester theory, but that just doesn't fit. If he's town I don't know what to believe anymore. I'm still suspicious of safari, but I think things are starting to sputter. I say we end the day and let our power roles do their work.

Unvote Vote Nark

[edocsil]

This worries me. We are trying to kill a huge part of the towns power. You will not have my vote.

[Commander9]

This worries me. We are trying to kill a huge part of the towns power. You will not have my vote.

The deadline is coming and we never even got anything about his lover? He has tried to hammer a player without letting him play and he generally acted really scummy today, still not contributed pretty much anything and he's continue to not being active and contributing. My vote stays.

[Anarkistsdream]

Haven't contributed anything useful???

I contributed my role and my lovers role, along with my name. That's more than I can say for you, Commander.

Lynching me is freaking retarded and you all know it.

Tell me who to kill and it will get done. That way, you can lynch someone in the day and the town basically gets a lynch in the night by a vig kill.

I'll vote Yoshi and put him at -1... He's obviously not my lover and you all are right, we need to get this moving.

He was gonna be hammered by me earlier, and now one of you can do it. Or are we going to make it easy for the mafia to win by killing two power roles for town?