AFC Mafia Game TOWN WINS!

[spiesr]

I thought he was a replacement. so we need a replacement for a replacement?

Eddie wasn't a replacement. The only replacements have been you and murdok samson

[sam_levi_11]

my question was, are all night kills done by bomb? As in a bomb passing to your stadium?

No, there is only one bomb in the game and animorpher has it. It also likely explodes during the day, not the night.

Is it possible for both to be killed by mafia in the same night? Does the mafia get 2 kills in a night? This does not make sense to me.

If Drench died by trying to recruit a mafia member (and we are not 100% sure about that) the mafia did not actually kill him. A mason cannot recruit a member of the mafia, so if he tries to recruit someone who is mafia he automatically dies.

Ah ok nevermind then

And that makes sense for the 2 kills i guess.. We should just try find who we think he would of gone for, at least it will be a start.

[derfderf34]

norsemsn1066 is replacing eddie35

[Its Bolt]

To explain basic setup

Balance for 16 player (two killing groups) is commonly one of the following

3 mafia, 1 vig, 1 SK
4 mafia, 1 vig
4 mafia, 1 SK
3 mafia A, 3 mafia B, 1 vig
4 mafia, cult

Of course any of this can be modified with addition of and types of town/mafia powers... and there was a jester which I have no clue how to balance given my undying hatred for them.

Anyway, space is mafia... now he is going around trying to random vote given that the case on me isnt going anywhere. I dont even think anyone has laid out a good case on me

[derfderf34]

To explain basic setup

Balance for 16 player (two killing groups) is commonly one of the following

3 mafia, 1 vig, 1 SK
4 mafia, 1 vig
4 mafia, 1 SK
3 mafia A, 3 mafia B, 1 vig
4 mafia, cult

Of course any of this can be modified with addition of and types of town/mafia powers... and there was a jester which I have no clue how to balance given my undying hatred for them.

Anyway, space is mafia... now he is going around trying to random vote given that the case on me isnt going anywhere. I dont even think anyone has laid out a good case on me

are you saying that this game is imbalanced

[spiesr]

are you saying that this game is imbalanced

Knowing you, this game may very well be imbalanced.

Balance for 16 player (two killing groups) is commonly one of the following

At this point I am not 100% sure that there are two killing groups as drench could have died from: recruiting a scum, A paranoid gun owner (as derderf seems to love these), or a vig or something...
Replacements yay!
I hope they bring something new to the discussion as it is starting to stagnate.

[Its Bolt]

are you saying that this game is imbalanced

Not sure... ask me after the game. A common rules of thumbs are no doc/cop without RB+GF for scum, massclaim D1 should never break the game, under 40% mafia, under 50% power role.

[Its Bolt]

At this point I am not 100% sure that there are two killing groups as drench could have died from: recruiting a scum, A paranoid gun owner (as derderf seems to love these), or a vig or something...
Replacements yay!

How... vauge would he be about someone being a PGO?

[spiesr]

What do you mean how vauge he would be about?

[spiesr]

Oh, do you think you could be a pgo? Well, it would be obvious as the pm would directly say if you a pgo. He would simply state it as your role. (I am pretty sure...)

[Its Bolt]

What do you mean how vauge he would be about?

About being a PGO... I am not called a PGO but im not called vanilla and I have no action

[spiesr]

Weird, the only role that I can think that he would use that has no action and is not vanilla or pog or mason or bullteproof is hungry townie, which is nothing like pgo...

[Its Bolt]

Well im the broncos, pissed off townie... I figured it ment miller but if dd is the type of mod that would throw in a PGO maybe someone should declare intention to target me and see what happens

[spiesr]

That's a new one... In the past he has always listed pgos as pgos. He might be making up roles again. Do you have anything that might say what it is you do? A locked role is possible at this point.

[spiesr]

Unless of course that this is all an elaborate and crafty ruse to make you seem cleared...

And derfderf is definitely the type to use a pgo or variation thereof, his first game had 2 of them. I thought has had progressed in his set making at least a little bit since then, but the jester leaves me with doubts. Anyway this should be interesting at least...

[Its Bolt]

That's a new one... In the past he has always listed pgos as pgos. He might be making up roles again. Do you have anything that might say what it is you do? A locked role is possible at this point.

Im just suppossedly really really pissed off, whatever that means. I asked and I have no night actions and he wouldnt tell me anything else. I expected to be miller but didnt do the D1 claim thing because I wasnt sure what I was. It also could just be a red herring type role. I just finished a game that had a cult unrecruiter with no cult, and have seen one with a townie who has a night action that does nothing.

[spaceghst44]

Anyway, space is mafia... now he is going around trying to random vote given that the case on me isnt going anywhere. I dont even think anyone has laid out a good case on me

I think a very good case has been made against you. You went after thzzz and he is dead now. Either you got set up or you are mafia. I am leaning towards mafia.

[Its Bolt]

Space... thats not a case... here is a case of mine from a different offsite one

JMWs target is fair enough, not my ideal choice but roko would of been in my top three. Him not being roleblocked and not being killed does cause some WIFOM suspicion though. If he is a real cop, he still is a threat to mafia since they dont know if he is useless or not.

Anyways, there are ways for us to eventually test the claim and trap him in lies. I will let it stay at that and hope the hypothetical roles I am talking about get my drift. SC blocking me isnt too much of a surprise, a little inconvienencing albeit though.

Anyways

Vote Walnut

Most of his actions around the end of yesterday really come off as scummy and trying to look for a lynch.

I am still voting for afatchic as I have not yet seen anything clearly more scummy than his "forced votes". The case on JonMW is growing, but I am also unconvinced by Appassionata and I would like to hear more from rokovoj and Oso (both of whom have given legitimate reasons for not posting). I am assuming Chenhsi will be replaced, or if he returns he will come back with some significant posting.

This was about three weeks before the day ended, and was the extent of what he had mentioned JMW to be scummy for (which is nothing). At this point Walnut acknowlaged a case on him, but prefered the AFC vote.

JMW is again mentioned in part in the following post soon after

Can someone here explain why "good enough for me" is a scummy reason to vote if the reason its good enough is logical?

In this case, it does not immediately follow any stated reason, so noone can know which argument you are agreeing with and therefore whether it is logical or not. That said, I don't think it is scummy (as you had already said you might vote for him and his case had been expanded on since that point)- I said that it "is likely to be viewed as suspicious by some players".

But again is failed to be commented on as if he was scummy or not. The conversation more falls around the validity of another player voting JMW instead of his views on the lynch.

I am prepared to hammer.

There is the combo of the random/not random Appassionata vote and the "I am bad at this game"/"I am lacking in post analysis" and now the attack on SC which seems kind of half-hearted. For me it adds up to either scummy or not very interested (see the "I forgot this game" post) or possibly both. I don't want to lynch someone for a lack if interest and I would prefer that they are replaced, but there is enough suspicion for me to feel calm about that for a Day 1 lynch.

I will wait a day for JonMW to claim.

This comes out of nowhere. Walnut decides to go from never expressing any suspicion of JMW to this post where he completely rehashes the entire case that has been put up against JMW by everyone else. The calling of a claim within one day or he will hammer is just obscene. First asking for a claim within 24 hours or a hammer fails as some people may just not have enough access to get to a computer from time to time, but when you add this to the history of suspicion coming from Walnut, I get a complete "quick lynch" vibe from this sudden hop in wagons.

afatchic, I am voting you for the same reasons as I was last time you asked (see post #272). That said, I will put my money where my mouth is. unvote; vote StrangerCoug. I really did not like #307 where it seems to me that he is more intent on attacking JonMW than he is on making sense. Townies don't need to smear a player, while it is beneficial to the mafia to have a cop discredited.

Now Walnut jumps to the next big wagon, SC. The problem here is not twofold. First SC was really not mentioned untill after the claim from JMW, even though parts of a SC case had been discussed during the whole vote on armlx thing. During that conversation if anything Walnut sided with SC. The second part of my issue is that he is no longer voting AFC even though the move in wagons was never really explained. It seemed more like Walnut applied pressure on JMW (while keeping his vote on AFC), and when he claimed cop, just moved to the SC wagon.

Frankly, I am astounded. I read Llamafluff as trying to trick the self-confessed bad player and relative newbie JonMW into a modkill situation, then rokovoj and Stangercoug piling on that.

Mod, I am voting StrangerCoug, but I will do it again for emphasis unvote; vote StrangerCoug. He has recently gone from accusing JonMW of being scum, to accusing him of being a bad cop, to encouraging the mod to kill him (post #336). This is attacking the player not the play, and as I said before is mafia rather than town play.

Llamafluff comes out of that debacle looking better than previously, but I am unimpressed by rokovoj. I am getting a bit suspicious of armlx too- in the midst of all of the wierdness around role PMs he keeps asking JonMW for a list of suspicions in a matter of fact way as if there were no elephants in the room.

This is just stupid. I had good reasons for the questions I asked, as if he tried to add on too much about his claim, he would out himself as fakeclaiming. Its pretty obvious what PR roles would entail and what they would not, even if you are vanilla. The same goes for the one shot, even if you arent one shot, you still would be able to figure out what it is.

Also pressure on SC for encoraging a modkill and calling him a bad cop? As a mod I probably would of killed him right there unless I was in a really good mood. Calling someone a bad cop again is not scummy, I can call a vig who shoots town a bad vig, but are they scum for it? Of course not.

Also why is armlx asking for a LoS something that makes him suspicious to you?

Either way it boils down to an acceptable first day lynch. I said in reference to JonMW that July 08 could be considered a "relative newbie". Appassionata joined in Nov 08 and this game kicked off in December, so I would say "undisputed newbie".
I have said before that I could vote App (and can dig up the references if anyone is interested) so vote Appassionata

Wagon ho! Also lets just for fun go back and "dig up" the posts where Walnut displayed some recent suspicion of Appas.

In the meantime, I am voting afatchic but could also vote Appassionata.

Intention but no reasoning

Lets see... also... well thats about it. Walnut mentioned Appas ONCE as suspicious in the month that led up to him voting for him. To be fair he posted reasoning a bit later though

1) No participation other than to occasionally say "I agree". This really does not help.
2) No understanding of the game, as shown by asking why you would breadcrumb and why you would not claim vanilla unprompted. (App, no offense, but it would be good to play a few newbie games first and get a bit of experience of how the game works)
3) Other than App personally asking to be replaced, there is no reason to suspect he will be, as his participation level is fine. I am more inclined to believe his claim than not, but I can also see the possibility of him being newbie scum and getting an easy ride if we let the behaviour slip by now.

Wow... weak reasoning though. tl'dred to
1) Not participating
2) Is a newbie
3) Newbie scum is most likely to claim VT unprompted

@Walnut - Why is newbie town more likely to claim VT out of nowhere? Any examples of this? I know I can grab a game where an experianced played did this but no newbie ones.

[norsemsn1066]

Hey Folks

I'm the new guy filling in for Eddie. I'll be mainly be reading the thread for the next while and once I catch up I'll post some thoughts.

[norsemsn1066]

If Its Bolt is a regular at playing mafia, why would he push such a strong case against someone, then night kill them when they don't get lynched? Isn't that suicide? It seems to me like it might be a set up to make him look guilty, which ofcourse he does. not sure what to think, starting to think I am over thinking everything. My head hurts.......

QFT

[spiesr]

Space, you are treading into WIFOM there...
Bolt, why did you copy and paste something from another site here?

[derfderf34]

Space, you are treading into WIFOM there...
Bolt, why did you copy and paste something from another site here?

yes bolt dont do that it is just pointless

[sheepofdumb]

Space, you are treading into WIFOM there...
Bolt, why did you copy and paste something from another site here?

yes bolt dont do that it is just pointless

Bolt I frankly don't care about your offsite experience I rarely read onsite stuff when posted. You don't need to prove yourself. Plus it is entirely irrelevant to the game at hand.

[spiesr]

I rarely read onsite stuff when posted.

Skimma!!

[Its Bolt]

Yeah sorry for copying that over, im just a little pissed that the case against me is "Thezz was killed by mafia, Bolt wanted Thezz dead, Bolt must be mafia"