[Endgame] Firefly Mafia

[safariguy5]

I'd like to hear a claim Fircoal, it looks like about that time with the VC anyways.

[Fircoal]

I'd like to hear a claim Fircoal, it looks like about that time with the VC anyways.

Ok, I am Inara Serra a Roleblocker.

[DoomYoshi]

Is that a town roleblocker?

[Fircoal]

Is that a town roleblocker?

yes

[strike wolf]

Hmmm I will wait for a counter claim but if the role is real than it would be town

[Anarkistsdream]

I will Unvote until there is a counterclaim...

She's a roleblocker because she sleeps with men and makes them forget what they were doing...

Doesn't sound like Fircoal to me, besides the sleeping with men part...

[DoomYoshi]

I will Unvote until there is a counterclaim...

She's a roleblocker because she sleeps with men and makes them forget what they were doing...

Doesn't sound like Fircoal to me, besides the sleeping with men part...

ok unvote. On to shaggydan...

[Fircoal]

Hmmm I will wait for a counter claim but if the role is real than it would be town

You sound like I did with Naxus.

[strike wolf]

Hmmm I will wait for a counter claim but if the role is real than it would be town

You sound like I did with Naxus.

It's intentional.

unvote

[safariguy5]

What's the probability for fakeclaims in the show's character pool? Is 16 roles about cover all the major ones or are there more that need to be considered?

unvote

[naxus]

16 roles covers all the main characters + a few extra

unvote

[safariguy5]

Damn, well that's 1 town power role and 1 potentially useful town role outed, so do we pressure shaggy and hope he's not town before deadline?

[strike wolf]

Well, I think there are worse roles to reveal but it is still two likely townies. I say at this point at least force a defense from shaggy as to his actions but no immediate pressure towards lynch until we hear what he has to say at least. As far as does it cover major characters. Including the captain of serenity who is the most obvious role to have in the game there are I think 9 people on Serenity who are all likely to be included and after that the characters get fairly obscure on town's side which is why I think multiple win conditions is likely in this game (at least one mafia a serial killer and possibly some ambiguous third party roles) or it could be like Lebowski.

[ShaggyDan]

Okay, first of all my defence:

Vote Streaker for being 5th on the wagon... and because he expects it.

I’ll admit I am nitpicking a bit here but honestly I thought the streaker comment about awaiting his bandwagon was a pretty clear joke.

I thought it was obvious my vote on streaker was a joke :S, I was contemplating adding a pokey tongue out winky face (who actually does those...) but figured it was obvious enough.

So while we're waiting on a Naxus claim I'm going to throw in my 2-cents about Soundman.

So there's two possibilities, either Soundman is truly in-experienced, didn't know the proper vote count, and didn't know the danger of putting someone at L-1. Or he knew the correct vote count and jumped on Nag's miss-count to try for a quick lynch that he could explain later ("I didn't think it would lynch him, just put him at L-1").

Ok so he has done this a few times now presenting multiple options of what could be happening. I can't actually say it is a horrible thing and admittedly this is a bit of a metagame speculation argument but I mostly see scum talk in this sort of fashion as it tends to leave the door open for an excuse if the wagon falls through or someone calls him out on it. States this as it looks like the soundman wagon may pick up steam.

I think it's important to put forward multiple options, I'm not going to commit to one thing when I know the other may possibly be true as well (of course you need to have conviction, but blind conviction is very stupid). If I was trying to get on-board the soundwagon I would have gone through and made a bigger case against him, put a vote on him and would have pressured more seriously after Nax claimed.

admitted skimming...I am actually going to play a bit of a helper role to that...Shaggy you seem to be at least somewhat aware that skimming can be seen as a scumtell and I have to advise you if you are actually town don't do it. Admitting that it's skimming isn't any better than just skimming. I would also say that while you are not the most active poster you have posted enough that I do not feel time issues to be a valid excuse to admittedly skimming. Moving on...

The skimming was due to lack of time, and I'm not very used to novel lengths of cases in the games I have played before. Though to be honest I do prefer it, makes the game more interesting . The admission of skimming was more an apology, despite not having time to go through everything with a fine tooth comb I still like to have players thoughts on record throughout the game for re-reads, I believe it's useful for looking at past vote patterns or thoughts after flips. I was just trying to put forward information at the time for analysis later on.

Funnily enough you do jump on the bandwagon at the end of the post and any time a deadline is asked for in any context it can be seen as wanting an end of the day so you can't really say you didn't mention anything that can be construed as advocating an end to the day. Possibly a miscommunication but it shows that you are indeed skimming and I do not find the fact you've admitted it to be much of an excuse. I believe what streaker is trying to say about voting an inactive is it is an easy lynch for scum if they want to pursue a lynch based on one that will not result in much in-depth discussion where scum could potentially slip up.

The jumping on the 'bandwagon' so to speak was from Fircoal's quote about 'stupidity'. If a player is admitting he's playing stupid surely that is a reason to pressure him into a defence regardless of what allignment they are. If they're playing stupid as town they're not useful and are a good lead for a D1 pressure, if they've slipped as scum then you're putting them on the back foot. And to clarify for a second time: I was not asking for a deadline to be put in place, I just wasn't sure if I had missed the declaration of one. Before posting I had read the 3 pages prior, but I wasn't sure if there may had been something on any of the other pages.

Also, since when is voting an inactive an easy lynch? In all my experience whenever someone had pushed for a vote on an inactive they've instantly been labeled scum despite them flipping town the majority of the time. I wasn't trying to get a case going, just making sure people had noticed it, honestly I'd much rather advocate for a replace than a blind lynch, or ideally he turns up and explains his absence.

If I've missed any posts regarding a case against me just let me know, but I think strike basically covered everything.

Finally, I can honestly say that votes towards me are a waste of time, that will make more sense if I have to claim. I'm aware that sounds scummy, but with a deadline not too far off (May 14th I believe edoc said) I believe it's important to say.

I know skimming is bad, and I am working on re-reading and looking closely at the Vio/Illiad tangent that had happened. At first glance I find it scummy that they were presenting cases against each other despite the main action being on something completely different, I think it deserves revisiting. Also throughout reading over the last few pages this stood out to me:

Man I feel like this game is getting nowhere. I personally would like to see a deadline.

I get grilled on wondering if there is a deadline, yet this gets looked over? The games not going nowhere, so far we have 2 claims and multiple cases on different people. There's a lot of content there.

Also, is there a possibility that fake-claims were given to maf? With a game-theme as specific as this would it be possible that roles were left out in order to give some wiggle-room to mafia? I'm not trying to point the finger, this is my first proper theme game so I'm not sure on ettiquete, both roles definitely fit with their powers but if fakeclaims are possible it might give reason to look a bit more closely. Also, if mafia were forced to claim surely they wouldn't claim whatever character they were, they'd try and out a main power role (which is pretty obviously Simon for doctor). I guess we don't have to make too much of an issue about it now, because if another Simon pops up later we have an easy place to go to.

[edocsil]

I want to play here... This game looks like fun.

[DoomYoshi]

I believe saf was saying the game was going nowhere since there were two, thus far unfruitful shouting matches. Between nag/fircoal and Vio/Iliad. Vio's case seemed almost incoherent, but she then admitted she was getting games crossed. However, the intention of her anger still seems misplaced. Is it perhaps Iliad's signature that is annoying you Vio?

[strike wolf]

Hey mod can edoc replace jer...oh right. Safari has been overlooked a lot in this game though with fircoal somewhat in the clear I don't think there really is much of a case against him. Also I am pretty sure I included that quote from safari somewhere in my analysis...at the very least I remember looking over it...I'll look over your case more thoroughly in the morning shaggy however nothing major stuck out through the first read through. It is always a possibility for the mod to leave out certain characters in this game in order to provide better fake claims to the scum however that is flavor speculation I do not have the energy for at the moment.

[Anarkistsdream]

1. Mandalorian WHERE ARE YOU, DOOFUS?!?!?
2. Jeraado He should be blacklisted.


Besides this, I really have nothing... Not on Day 1, anyway.

[safariguy5]

Hey mod can edoc replace jer...oh right. Safari has been overlooked a lot in this game though with fircoal somewhat in the clear I don't think there really is much of a case against him. Also I am pretty sure I included that quote from safari somewhere in my analysis...at the very least I remember looking over it...I'll look over your case more thoroughly in the morning shaggy however nothing major stuck out through the first read through. It is always a possibility for the mod to leave out certain characters in this game in order to provide better fake claims to the scum however that is flavor speculation I do not have the energy for at the moment.

Yeah, hitching my defense to fircoal might have been a risky move, but I really think that with the amount of attention naxus brought to himself as a doc, I could definitely empathize with chu's frustration. If I stuck to the principle as much as he did, I might have tried to lynch naxus anyways out of principle.

1. Mandalorian WHERE ARE YOU, DOOFUS?!?!?
2. Jeraado He should be blacklisted.


Besides this, I really have nothing... Not on Day 1, anyway.

+1 on Mandy, he needs to get active again (especially in a certain game I'm modding)

jeraado's been way inactive and spotty in his participation too, I guess the old lynch the submariner is in order then.

unvote vote jeraado

[Fircoal]

Well Jeraado has been involved somewhat in Whac a Mod so he's here.

[Streaker]

Alright, first off my apologies for the small absence. Just finished rereading.

About flavour: It is possible mafia has been provided fake claims, but I doubt any of the main characters would be fake. Both claims so far could easily be considered main characters. Any fake claims are likely to be characters encountered on 'sidetrack stories'. I made a list of likely town roles, and likely mafia roles, as well as possible fake claims.

Ofcourse, I won't be providing them here

Now, I'm not sure what the best next course of action is. With a couple outed (likely) town roles, we should watch out. On the other hand, going no lynch would only serve mafia at this point. So following safari and going for an inactive jeraado lynch seems a viable option.

However, safari himself might prove to be the best lead.

This little Iliad/Vio tiff is interesting and we can definitely revisit it later, but I'm having a hard time buying this nag/fircoal stuff. We know chu likes to take little experiments and see who bites. By his behavior, I could possibly see it as a gamble to draw out scum, and as I have indicated, we had at least 1 bandwagonner to nag's original suspicion of chu. I don't fault nag for being suspicious of chu, but the clearest choice right now would be to go for the people who were caught by the apparent shift in bandwagon pressure.

After the big 'debates', safari comes in with a statement on how interesting discussion has been. He also says it's not worth going into deeper at the moment. He thinks we should go after the bandwagon shifters. Safari doesn't even provide a name to back up his statement.

Although it is a valid point about nag nearly hammering naxus save for a somewhat fortunate invalid vote. I think that while the part in fircoal's argument about activity to be absolutely worthless, I feel like it's more a shouting match between nag and fircoal more than it is solid evidence. Vote pattern wise, I think nag might have tried to stealth hammer and missed the opportunity. I'll take up this nark case later then as I think the wagon hopping was a weak evidence base to begin with by nag initially that was strengthened later by fircoal's actions. So I will unvote for now while I wait for some explanation for that almost hammer.

Seemingly disposing of his last post, he doesn't look to interested in hunting out those bandwagoners he mentioned earlier. Simply unvoting.

Man I feel like this game is getting nowhere. I personally would like to see a deadline. It's interesting looking at shaggy's posts, on the one hand, it seems like he's trying to helpful and townish, but on the other hand, you don't see him really putting much conviction into his arguments. And it seems like he's being opportunistic with the fircoal case, trying to mask his voting pattern in popular sentiment. Looks like scum trying to hide as useful townie to me.

vote Shaggy

This post is made right after naxus votes shaggy for scummaring, and I point out some odd behaviour from shaggy.
I don't know what game safari has been reading, but this one is full of leads for a Day 1. Not what I would call 'going nowhere fast'.

He seems very opportunistic to vote shaggy, right after pressure began on shaggy. Again disregarding his previous post where he wants to hunt down those bandwagoners, he is now doing the very thing he wanted to get a lynch for. Also, nice double standard here when calling shaggy out for not putting enough conviction into his arguments
Really, safari is all over the place here.

Last post he made safari jumps to voting inactive jeraado. By itself nothing wrong with that, but there is still plenty time left for discussion.

So safari has been trying to break up discussion, directing attention to bandwagoners without making an actual case, then bandwagoning himself. More then enough reasons to warant a Day 1 vote...

Vote safari

[safariguy5]

Well, the idea of keeping your vote on the claimed doc if you were mafia would be a WIFOM argument, but your post definitely highlights the lack of activity by some people in the thread. Submarining and noobiness aside, I might note that scum roles can be given to anyone, including noobs. So using noobiness as an excuse to give the player a pass is not a really valid strategy fir, random.org isn't going to make considerations like that. That said, I thought that naxus played terribly especially if he was the doctor, and I can understand why chu would be frustrated/suspicous of naxus for drawing so much attention to himself. However, instead of going after nag for taking exception, I think that strike and nark hopping on the wagon are much more scummy for rather weak reasons.

Yep... I know I'm not Simon Tam and he is a pretty for sure character to be in the game.

Unvote
Vote: Fircoal

Way to not really give a reason and blatantly hop on the wagon there.
unvote vote nark/b]

Also, [b]FOS strike wolf for offering slightly more reason but still basically repeating what nag said.

I called out the bandwagonners right here. strike defended himself relatively well, but I'm still suspicious of nark. However, nobody seemed to think that was a lead worth pursing, and were still all over fircoal, so I dropped it for the moment. Nark is still on my radar.

[strike wolf]

Well personally I would rather see jeraado replaced than lynched as I remember tonka volunteering to replace as needed in the replacement thread though not sure if that is still withstanding. If he cannot it appears that jeraado ignored a prod while being active elsewhere so I can kind of understand wanting him blacklisted.

[edocsil]

Well personally I would rather see jeraado replaced than lynched as I remember tonka volunteering to replace as needed in the replacement thread though not sure if that is still withstanding. If he cannot it appears that jeraado ignored a prod while being active elsewhere so I can kind of understand wanting him blacklisted.

The prod was received, it is out of my outbox. Going to put the replace req in the thread title. I am usually one of the first to call for black listing, but I urge restraint here. If we blacklisted everyone who had to be replaced no one would be left to play big games.

[Anarkistsdream]

If they're not playing the games once they sign up, it causes more problems than it is worth...