[SPECIAL] Surprise Mafia - Over - Mafia Wins - MVP Aladdin

[the white rose]

I mean really, this is a game with gods, inventors, insane cops, mass communication specialists, and flying pumpkins that shoot lasers out of their asses. Whatever your role is, it's not that special.

never said it was that important or that unusual, simply that a full claim from me will do nothing to advance the town cause, but will do much to advance the cause of mafia. Anybody wanting me to claim must therefore be looking to advance the cause of mafia....or do you think i am mafia? in which case vote for my lynch.

let me try again to explain.

suppose i claim doc....i am sure to be killed tonight.....but what if i claimed to be bulletproof or commuter, now mafia would know there is no point in trying to nk me and risk going through the night without a kill, thats already happened.

how would town be any better off if i were to reveal which of these 2 roles i was? i have no information for town and succeed only in telling mafia whether they are better off killing me or leaving me alone.

So to rephrase your question.

"please tell us who you are as we need to decide whether to nightkill you tonight or not"

I have already been cleared not by one but two separate investigative roles, one was you. i refused to hammer wing and did not join the falco bw, however i did vote to lynch both the 3p's......now if you wanna lynch me cos i refuse to tell mafia whether they should kill me or not, then go ahead and vote for me, otherwise stfu.

[the white rose]

ptlowe fell for it and we lost our cop straight afterwards, fat lot of good the mass claim has done, we made it easy for mafia, they did not have to guess who the cop was we told them!

well i ain't gonna make it easy for them just cos you want me to claim. your insistence is making you look very scummy to me.

[benga]

@twr

if you are so important why didn't mafia kill you already?

[the white rose]

in fact cos benga has now cleared up the mafia gave me a gift confusion i have no reason to vote for him.

so for trying to get me to tell scum my role....

unvote vote mets

and this is not a OMGUS vote. I explained my reasons for not claiming, they are clear and cannot be misunderstood, anyone still trying to get me to claim must be doing scum's bidding

[the white rose]

@twr

if you are so important why didn't mafia kill you already?

precisely because they do not know whether such a kill would be successful or not? if i claim doc then they would surely kill me, if i claimed bulletproof they would not, do you really want me to tell them whether it is in their interests to kill me or not, when such information cannot possibly benefit town.

[Metsfanmax]

I mean really, this is a game with gods, inventors, insane cops, mass communication specialists, and flying pumpkins that shoot lasers out of their asses. Whatever your role is, it's not that special.

never said it was that important or that unusual, simply that a full claim from me will do nothing to advance the town cause, but will do much to advance the cause of mafia. Anybody wanting me to claim must therefore be looking to advance the cause of mafia....or do you think i am mafia? in which case vote for my lynch.

let me try again to explain.

suppose i claim doc....i am sure to be killed tonight.....but what if i claimed to be bulletproof or commuter, now mafia would know there is no point in trying to nk me and risk going through the night without a kill, thats already happened.

how would town be any better off if i were to reveal which of these 2 roles i was? i have no information for town and succeed only in telling mafia whether they are better off killing me or leaving me alone.

So to rephrase your question.

"please tell us who you are as we need to decide whether to nightkill you tonight or not"

I have already been cleared not by one but two separate investigative roles, one was you. i refused to hammer wing and did not join the falco bw, however i did vote to lynch both the 3p's......now if you wanna lynch me cos i refuse to tell mafia whether they should kill me or not, then go ahead and vote for me, otherwise stfu.

Holy f*ck you are bad at reading comprehension. Nothing in my last post said "you should claim now." It said you should feel bad for not even understanding why people were advocating that you claim when the mass claim was starting. Man, people suck at mafia.

[Metsfanmax]

@twr

if you are so important why didn't mafia kill you already?

precisely because they do not know whether such a kill would be successful or not? if i claim doc then they would surely kill me, if i claimed bulletproof they would not, do you really want me to tell them whether it is in their interests to kill me or not, when such information cannot possibly benefit town.

How do you not understand this is the same calculation that every other member of town has to go through when deciding to claim? It's like you went through a complicated chain of reasoning in your head to figure out that claiming has drawbacks, and you're so proud of your deduction that you feel like you have to explain it to people, without even realizing that all of what you're saying is completely obvious to anyone who has spent more than five minutes playing this game.

[Metsfanmax]

@twr

if you are so important why didn't mafia kill you already?

precisely because they do not know whether such a kill would be successful or not? if i claim doc then they would surely kill me, if i claimed bulletproof they would not, do you really want me to tell them whether it is in their interests to kill me or not, when such information cannot possibly benefit town.

I feel angry for even having to explain this, but just for the sake of argument, suppose you were a bomb or PGO that would kill people who visited you. (Obviously you are not, since Marashu and I visited you without dying.) Yes, claiming that would tell mafia not to target you. But it would also stop town from visiting you and dying. Do you not see how that can benefit town too?

Also you obviously haven't even fully thought through this hypothetical scenario. Suppose you were bulletproof, then if you lied and claimed doc, that would successfully redirect a shot from someone more important onto you, which would be good for town. Alternately, if you are doc, then lying and claiming bulletproof might redirect shots away from you and allow you to continue saving. Did you even consider this angle?

[the white rose]

@twr

if you are so important why didn't mafia kill you already?

precisely because they do not know whether such a kill would be successful or not? if i claim doc then they would surely kill me, if i claimed bulletproof they would not, do you really want me to tell them whether it is in their interests to kill me or not, when such information cannot possibly benefit town.

I feel angry for even having to explain this, but just for the sake of argument, suppose you were a bomb or PGO that would kill people who visited you. (Obviously you are not, since Marashu and I visited you without dying.) Yes, claiming that would tell mafia not to target you. But it would also stop town from visiting you and dying. Do you not see how that can benefit town too?

doh, well then of course i would claim if it were of any benefit to town, as you have already found out by visiting me i offer no harm to you, so no need to claim to warn you

Also you obviously haven't even fully thought through this hypothetical scenario. Suppose you were bulletproof, then if you lied and claimed doc, that would successfully redirect a shot from someone more important onto you, which would be good for town. Alternately, if you are doc, then lying and claiming bulletproof might redirect shots away from you and allow you to continue saving. Did you even consider this angle?

of course i thought that. if you looked up a previous post of today, you will see that i said if there was ever a case for a townie to false claim then this is it. however, i did not want to deceive town with false claims that may get found out later and cause me to be lynched as a liar, but hey if it makes you feel better i will claim. I am a vanilla townie......happy now?now do you think we could possibly move away from me claiming to actually trying to find scum?

[Ragian]

N3 I investigated twr (didn't like how much of a big deal was being made of keeping the role secret), and the result was anti-town. I have no reason to believe that my sanity has flipped, so unless I was redirected somehow, I can say that twr is town.

seems clear to me

Agreed.

I believe Benga is Town as well.

What cleared Benga?

@TWR, you're still voting Mets. Do you think he's scum? Are you basing it on anything besides things he hasn't done?

[the white rose]

for the moment, yes.

but i may change to rish or deg later

[Metsfanmax]

@twr

if you are so important why didn't mafia kill you already?

precisely because they do not know whether such a kill would be successful or not? if i claim doc then they would surely kill me, if i claimed bulletproof they would not, do you really want me to tell them whether it is in their interests to kill me or not, when such information cannot possibly benefit town.

I feel angry for even having to explain this, but just for the sake of argument, suppose you were a bomb or PGO that would kill people who visited you. (Obviously you are not, since Marashu and I visited you without dying.) Yes, claiming that would tell mafia not to target you. But it would also stop town from visiting you and dying. Do you not see how that can benefit town too?

doh, well then of course i would claim if it were of any benefit to town, as you have already found out by visiting me i offer no harm to you, so no need to claim to warn you

Also you obviously haven't even fully thought through this hypothetical scenario. Suppose you were bulletproof, then if you lied and claimed doc, that would successfully redirect a shot from someone more important onto you, which would be good for town. Alternately, if you are doc, then lying and claiming bulletproof might redirect shots away from you and allow you to continue saving. Did you even consider this angle?

of course i thought that. if you looked up a previous post of today, you will see that i said if there was ever a case for a townie to false claim then this is it. however, i did not want to deceive town with false claims that may get found out later and cause me to be lynched as a liar, but hey if it makes you feel better i will claim. I am a vanilla townie......happy now?now do you think we could possibly move away from me claiming to actually trying to find scum?

Just be aware that "lynch all liars" goes both ways. Proclaiming loudly that you cannot possibly claim because your role is far too sensitive to do so, and then later saying "haha j/k I'm a VT," is also grounds for getting lynched under that policy.

[Iron Butterfly]

@twr

if you are so important why didn't mafia kill you already?

There were KNOWN important players that were targeted. He could be a Paranoid Gun Owner for ample, he claims that and they wont target. If you believe he is Town back off. He has been cop checked twice.

[Iron Butterfly]

N3 I investigated twr (didn't like how much of a big deal was being made of keeping the role secret), and the result was anti-town. I have no reason to believe that my sanity has flipped, so unless I was redirected somehow, I can say that twr is town.

seems clear to me

Agreed.

I believe Benga is Town as well.

What cleared Benga?

@TWR, you're still voting Mets. Do you think he's scum? Are you basing it on anything besides things he hasn't done?

I "believe" he is Town. I could be wrong but do not think so.

[Iron Butterfly]

@twr

if you are so important why didn't mafia kill you already?

precisely because they do not know whether such a kill would be successful or not? if i claim doc then they would surely kill me, if i claimed bulletproof they would not, do you really want me to tell them whether it is in their interests to kill me or not, when such information cannot possibly benefit town.

I feel angry for even having to explain this, but just for the sake of argument, suppose you were a bomb or PGO that would kill people who visited you. (Obviously you are not, since Marashu and I visited you without dying.) Yes, claiming that would tell mafia not to target you. But it would also stop town from visiting you and dying. Do you not see how that can benefit town too?

Also you obviously haven't even fully thought through this hypothetical scenario. Suppose you were bulletproof, then if you lied and claimed doc, that would successfully redirect a shot from someone more important onto you, which would be good for town. Alternately, if you are doc, then lying and claiming bulletproof might redirect shots away from you and allow you to continue saving. Did you even consider this angle?

Hey Mets...Would you rather be right or Happy? I hear you, I really do. Him claiming does not help Town for the moment. Personally I believe most of the mafia scum have been sitting back as we eat each other. There are some players who have offered jack shit this game and have gotten a free pass.We have been so busy lynching Prs we think are scumming and have been ignoring the VTs sitting quietly on the sidelines.

So yeh I understand you frustration and point but there are more important things todiscuss.

[Metsfanmax]

@twr

if you are so important why didn't mafia kill you already?

There were KNOWN important players that were targeted. He could be a Paranoid Gun Owner for ample, he claims that and they wont target. If you believe he is Town back off. He has been cop checked twice.

He can't be a PGO, he would have killed me and Marashu. Still, he has given other, better examples, like being X-shot bulletproof.

@twr

if you are so important why didn't mafia kill you already?

precisely because they do not know whether such a kill would be successful or not? if i claim doc then they would surely kill me, if i claimed bulletproof they would not, do you really want me to tell them whether it is in their interests to kill me or not, when such information cannot possibly benefit town.

I feel angry for even having to explain this, but just for the sake of argument, suppose you were a bomb or PGO that would kill people who visited you. (Obviously you are not, since Marashu and I visited you without dying.) Yes, claiming that would tell mafia not to target you. But it would also stop town from visiting you and dying. Do you not see how that can benefit town too?

Also you obviously haven't even fully thought through this hypothetical scenario. Suppose you were bulletproof, then if you lied and claimed doc, that would successfully redirect a shot from someone more important onto you, which would be good for town. Alternately, if you are doc, then lying and claiming bulletproof might redirect shots away from you and allow you to continue saving. Did you even consider this angle?

Hey Mets...Would you rather be right or Happy? I hear you, I really do.

...

So yeh I understand you frustration and point but there are more important things todiscuss.

Fine. I'm done with it for now.

Still, unless we get more information, it kind of seems like we have to choose between deg and rish based on prior information, none of which is very clear. (Assuming we even trust Rag's invention, which I think is more likely than not to be accurate.) I'm leaning towards voting deg just for the VT claim, but I wish I had a more solid emphasis towards either one.

[PLAYER57832]

Just to be clear, I am not really "comfortable" voting anyone at the moment... and yeah, I agree I suck at Mafia, mets. But, choosing between rish and deg, I did a coin flip. That's it. Anybody have better ideas, I am definitely open to consideration.

[Ragian]

for the moment, yes.

but i may change to rish or deg later

Soooo...what are you basing it on?

@IB, I did get the believe bit, but it was, as with several of your statements this game, ambiguous to me whether it meant "believe" as in "I seem to recall that" or "believe" as in "it's my opinion".

Confirmed town alive:
- TWR (cleared by Marashu)
- Ragian (cleared by Benga - but through Ragian's own invention)

Has anyone else been cleared that I have missed?

[the white rose]

@ragian...i am not convinced of your town status at the moment.

I am concerned that your inventions are not necessarily helpful to town.

could you please list all your inventions, what they are supposed to have done and what they actually did.

I really do not think town will have 2 inventors, suspect one of ragian or LSU to be scum.

It maybe better to lynch an inventor....after all what use have their inventions been? we cannot afford to lynch deg, find him town then lynch rish only to discover rag invented a device that wins the game for scum.

[Ragian]

Look, I don't post after what you think. I post from my point of view. You should obviously not trust anyone who is not confirmed town, but they are hard to come by. Right now, you need to stop painting yourself into a corner if you want to win with town. You're voting Mets because of things he hasn't said and you don't trust me because you think we can't have two inventors. If you only trust people that have in fact been cleared, you ought to base your votes on the same facts.

N1: Gave Deg a 3-way-gun. He used it to effectively jail Mitch.
N2: Gave Benga a Personality Module. He used it to become bulletproof.
N3: Gave Benga an Alignment Definer. He used it to dish out that between Deg, Rish, and Wing, we have one scum.
N4: I was skiing and didn't return in order to get my invention in.

From where I'm standing:
Trust list
- TWR (by necessity)
- Benga (cleared me; seemingly works for the benefit of town)
- Mitch (I believe he's a jester; find him somewhat useless though)

Don't know
- IB (has made several ambiguous statements and is not as commanding as I would expect)
- Mets (seems very reluctant to state anything about anyone and has resorted to deflate proposals from others only)
- LSU (seems to have faulty inventions...)
- rizky (hasn't really done too much, but doesn't strike me as scum right now)

Under scutiny
- Deg/Rish (one of them is scum)
- / (a.k.a. Slash) (hasn't really done anything)
- Player (new player, has made some posts that raised my eyebrow)
- DJP (wanted Wing's blood badly; has he said anything regarding anyone else?)
- Aladdin (posts loooooooooads; claimed enabler, right? Who's he enabling now?)
- catcher (there was something that nagged me about catcher, but it escapes me at this moment)

-----

Rish or Deg?

I have mentioned this before, but no one seemed to care, so I'll try again:

Also I am loathe to trust the any inventions right now, because none of them have proven useful whatsoever

I like it that Rish, who is 1v1 in a scum/town investigation, attempts to discredit the invention that has him pinned up against the wall. It speaks against him. Especially since, is he knows he's town, ought to vote for Deg.

What I have against Deg is storr's words. They weigh heavily on my decision, though.

@Deg, what's your role again?

[Ragian]

No, wait, Benga used the Personality Module to investigate me. If you trust Benga, you should trust me.

[benga]

No, wait, Benga used the Personality Module to investigate me. If you trust Benga, you should trust me.

i used my cop investigation to test you during N2

[the white rose]

thanks very much for this post. comments in blue.

Look, I don't post after what you think. I post from my point of view. You should obviously not trust anyone who is not confirmed town, but they are hard to come by. Right now, you need to stop painting yourself into a corner if you want to win with town. You're voting Mets because of things he hasn't said and you don't trust me because you think we can't have two inventors. If you only trust people that have in fact been cleared, you ought to base your votes on the same facts.

N1: Gave Deg a 3-way-gun. He used it to effectively jail Mitch.if deg had have been scum surely he would have used it to kill a townie....had i been scum and you gave it to me, i would kill you with it, so long as i knew you were not my scum buddy. therefore the fact that he did not suggests that he was your scum buddy, or he himself is not scum
N2: Gave Benga a Personality Module. He used it to become bulletproof. i understand that this module had 2 uses, 1 was a cop check and the other bulletproof. benga used it to cop check you. So you are right, if i believe you to be scum, then it follows that so is benga, unless the cop check was diverted.
N3: Gave Benga an Alignment Definer. He used it to dish out that between Deg, Rish, and Wing, we have one scum.this increases the likliehood that you and benga are scum buddies, if we were to believe this definer and lynched deg, then rish and they both flipped town, we would know that you were scum buddies, but by then the game would be lost. so basically we have to decide now. the only other option would be to lynch you and if you flipped town then that would clear benga and we could choose who to lynch out of deg and rish tomorrow...however, if you flipped scum then we could with some confidence say that deg and rish are town. We need to know who chose these 3? was it the mods, or benga, or did you choose them yourself?
N4: I was skiing and didn't return in order to get my invention in.

From where I'm standing:
Trust list
- TWR (by necessity)
- Benga (cleared me; seemingly works for the benefit of town)
- Mitch (I believe he's a jester; find him somewhat useless though)

Don't know
- IB (has made several ambiguous statements and is not as commanding as I would expect)
- Mets (seems very reluctant to state anything about anyone and has resorted to deflate proposals from others only)
- LSU (seems to have faulty inventions...)
- rizky (hasn't really done too much, but doesn't strike me as scum right now)

Under scutiny
- Deg/Rish (one of them is scum)
- / (a.k.a. Slash) (hasn't really done anything)
- Player (new player, has made some posts that raised my eyebrow)
- DJP (wanted Wing's blood badly; has he said anything regarding anyone else?)
- Aladdin (posts loooooooooads; claimed enabler, right? Who's he enabling now?)
- catcher (there was something that nagged me about catcher, but it escapes me at this moment)

-----

Rish or Deg?

I have mentioned this before, but no one seemed to care, so I'll try again:

Also I am loathe to trust the any inventions right now, because none of them have proven useful whatsoever

I like it that Rish, who is 1v1 in a scum/town investigation, attempts to discredit the invention that has him pinned up against the wall. It speaks against him. Especially since, is he knows he's town, ought to vote for Deg.yes i would agree with you here, if i decide to believe you are town and accept that this definer is genuine, then i would be voting for rish....but at the moment that is a big if

What I have against Deg is storr's words. They weigh heavily on my decision, though.what words are these then?

[the white rose]

No, wait, Benga used the Personality Module to investigate me. If you trust Benga, you should trust me.

hang on, benga claimed the personality module gave him either bulletproof or ninja, he chose bulletproof.

he cop checked you as town on n2, after previously saying that he would only use cop check daytime to eliminate being busdriven. had this been a day check i would have accepted it.

the question is why did benga do his check at night time, the only possible reason is so that if we lynched ragian and he flipped scum he could claim that his check was busdriven.

the more i think about it the more i think benga and ragian are scum buddies and this definer is a clever way for us to lynch 3 townies looking for that 1 scum. if we do that its game over

for now i will unvote and invite others to comment on my reads.

it seems we have a straight choice, accept the definer and vote either deg or rish, or reject it and vote benga or ragian with the added bonus that if either of these flipped scum, the other is most probably scum too. If we choose to go for either deg or rish and he flips town, what then? lynch the other and lose or lynch benga or ragian. Really think we should be lynching them now.

[benga]

used it cause i thought i could get result back before my probable death