[OFFICIAL] Stack the Deck mafia (4/12)Endgame: MAFIA WIN

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

Gee I wonder who the vig is.

Streaker mucked up the first version of this scene and confirmed you as town vig to the few of us who saw.

In EoTW I let End live as town vig for ages as he was killing town for me, so there is not necessarily a reason for mafia to nightkill you immediately.

I need to be at a pc to reread D1 before I can post anything substantial.

[rizky_biznezz]

hmm ok looks like im starting from the beginning again.... good job on rose though guys

[dakky21]

You almost had me rose.
Good game to you.

yeah, well done to you, you were the first to spot me.....must remember not to post so often in adventure time

Now I can say it was me who actually spotted you first when you joke voted Streaker in the very first joke vote stage. Voting the mod or someone who isn't playing is bad practice, even in a joke vote stage.

Speaking of lynch, it looks to me like endgame spotted you first... as a candidate to remove guilt from himself.

vote endgame

fp'd by rizky.... your "staring from beginning again" is deeply scummy to me.... so another day doing nothing and staying below the radar? hmm.

[rizky_biznezz]

thats interesting dakky... i had endgame as a little scummy but was leaning more town after the rose flip... what are your thoughts on anamaniaks.. you did mention him once as a suspect what do u feel now?

listing my suspicions and trying to make cases on majority of players is hardly staying under the radar... quite the opposite lol.. i have to start again because we have new information which changes some of my reads nothing more

[ptlowe]

Gl town

[bosaardbeitje]

My oh my...

This would have been my list of reads going into D2:
End - town - was right from the beginning about TWR
Dakky - town - was right from the beginning about TWR
Mitch - leaning scum - asking lots of questions, not many ideas of his own, jumped from Dakky to TWR without giving reasons and only when End said people needed to vote, could be looking for easy wagons and Town credit
Maras - neutral - looked town at first, has quieted down a lot, votes TWR during the second wagon without giving reasons
Anam - leaning town - lots of useful contributions, seems to form his own opinion, mentioned being equally fine with a TWR lynch and a Dakky lynch, didn't want to hammer during the second wagon, but there was still plenty of time, is consistent
Wing - neutral - voted Maras early based on 'gut feeling' but added arguments later, is either dropping ideas in the hope others pick up on them or genuinly looking at everyone, was on both TWR wagons
Rizky - neutral - lots of contributions, but only after being called out for a lack of posts, voted Tim for being quiet but changed to TWR later without too many reasons, is posting a lot now, always chooses the middle ground
IB - leaning scum - still suspicious of that weird question, could have been trying to provoke reactions, not a lot of original contributions, hammered TWR after the mod note, looking for Town credit?

So, I guess I am (partially) back at the drawing table too, IB was my number one suspect going into D2 but he turns out to be a lethal innocent child

@ Dakky, interesting theory that may change 2 more reads on my list, why does it apply to End and not to you?
@ Rizky, I see that you are posting a lot of ideas, but I am still not sure who your main suspect is.

[rizky_biznezz]

Is town vig good or bad? Bos has iron listed as scum so bad then?

[rizky_biznezz]

Sorry never mind i didn't scroll enough on my phone missed half of the post

[dakky21]

Is town vig good or bad? Bos has iron listed as scum so bad then?

Streaker failed and wrote that IB is TOWN vig.
So no more talk necessary about him, let's just hope he doesn't get dead tonight. Or shoot another townie like last night.

[madmitch]

@ Bos, interesting post ,some make sense some don't, you say I am scum but look at your actions, you say now Dakky is town but you still have your vote on him . I removed mine for the benefit of the town, we needed a lynch and twr was the best option , so I am going to keep a eye on you.

[bosaardbeitje]

So basically you admit that you were looking for a wagon because we needed a lynch? I would rather see that you make up your mind based on content. Also, instead of saying that some of my reads make sense and some don't, which is very vague, I would prefer to hear which ones exactly make sense to you and which ones don't. What are your Town reads and scum reads? I don't like your reluctance to commit yourself to anything and we can't discuss if I don't know where you stand. I know you have a certain playstyle but normally you do have a stronger opinion about matters.

And yes, I forgot to unvote

[dakky21]

People, you don't need to unvote when next day starts, because votes are reset. Mitch played enough game to know that, not really sure why he mentioned that... FOS on Mitch...

[anamainiacks]

Are we sure Streaker make a mistake with IB's role reveal, or was that intentional? He doesn't actually say it was a mistake, though I can't imagine how that would be part of the game mechanics either... Not going to speculate, since I don't think it matters at this point.

But yes, guess that clears IB as town.

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listing my suspicions and trying to make cases on majority of players is hardly staying under the radar... quite the opposite lol.. i have to start again because we have new information which changes some of my reads nothing more

I'm sorry, how were you "trying to make cases on majority of players"? You were "listing [your] suspicions", I'll give you that; but making cases? Far from it. The only 'case' you really made was on Tim (which I assume was a case only because you voted for him), where your case was just a 1-liner. What you've been doing is listing your thoughts and reactions to people. Or are you implying that all your lists were your pursuits of multiple cases at once?

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I agree that rose's flip makes Endgame and dakky lean town. They were voting TWR before momentum had even started on the case, and in fact they were probably responsible for the momentum. True that it's a possible scum play to gain trust (which is why they aren't 100% cleared), but I think I don't think scum would throw one of their own under the bus from the get-go.

Curious as to why dakky is voting for Endgame though, since they're pretty much in the same boat?

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@ Bos, interesting post ,some make sense some don't, you say I am scum but look at your actions, you say now Dakky is town but you still have your vote on him . I removed mine for the benefit of the town, we needed a lynch and twr was the best option , so I am going to keep a eye on you.

Sorry wait what, since when do votes carry over from previous days? They don't...

Though on that note, Bos, you read 2 players leaning scum, and I get that you've obviously changed your read on IB - so that leaves madmitch on your list that still leans scum, making him technically your No. 2 suspect. Are you not pursuing it presently because you've changed your read, or because you're still looking into it?


FP'ed by dakky

[madmitch]

Knew votes did not carry over ,just stirring the pot to see what jumped out

[dakky21]

Curious as to why dakky is voting for Endgame though, since they're pretty much in the same boat?

Why does it looks like you're trying to say "You are not in the same boat as you two" ?

I voted endgame because of the gut feeling that he voted rose to get town trust, and rose's "good game endgame" answer pretty much fortified that feeling.

Mitch is acting weird, not his ordinary town play as well.

[Endgame422]

Dakky,please reread D1 and tell me if rose would have been forced to claim if i didnt push him and push everyone to vote. I doubt it.
Im fairly sure your town dakky so im not going to push you over this vote on me as i doubt youll get the support to lynch me anyways.
That being said dakky dont tunnel in on me as theres still 2 scum to catch. Stop trusting your gut and use your head.
Vote Anamainiacks

@ anam, excellent post, very helpful and well thought out, for me i now read you as my most certain townie.

This post is rather interesting with rose confirmed mafia,when you combine this with anamain also pushing dakky,who im relatively confident is town over TWR but not really linking himself to TWR either,he never votes TWR despite saying he will.

As mentioned in my earlier post, I'm still not convinced by dakky.

Vote dakky21, but as things stand, I would be equally fine with a TWR lynch.

So far he has only pushed on dakky and mostly rizky. Both of which seem like low hanging fruit for scum to get an early mislynch.
D2 Anamains list of actions thus far
1. Cast doubt on accidental mod confirming vig.
2. Pushs rizky with a full paragraph but no vote.

[Iron Butterfly]

Is town vig good or bad? Bos has iron listed as scum so bad then?

Streaker failed and wrote that IB is TOWN vig.
So no more talk necessary about him, let's just hope he doesn't get dead tonight. Or shoot another townie like last night.

I shot Tim for a valid reason, actually several.

With Tim slipping as well he was either Town VT or scum. Then if you noticed he became extremely defensive in helping TWR. The whole "he may have his games confused" type of deal had my scum alarm go off. Killing him would remove all doubt and at worst we would lose a VT. Second I wanted scum to know their was a vig.Normally I would hold off shooting,not that I have not shot day one, but usually it's risk out weighs the rewards.

With Ptlowe and I we know mafia has at least 2 power roles.I suspect they would choose a role cop as it would be a valuable asset in choosing who to kill. That would be first choice for my team. I could be wrong.

Streaker put me in the night scene because Town has an advantage with PRs it seems. They are forced to target me or try and find some else.

I WILL target who I think is scum tonight. So scum need to think twice about their night kill. I alsonotice that Ptlowe was not saved by the body guard.

[Marashu]

Hmm. With IB as an Innocent Vig, that kinda helps narrow things down.

Right now I'm reading End as town. Rose's last comment was super WIFOM-y, but I think that if End was scum, he didn't just bus his partner, he would have built the bus, filled it up with gas, bussed rose, then circled round to make sure.

I have a weird feeling about Wing - D1 I couldn't tell if he was scumhunting or role fishing, and now that D2 has started he seems to be hanging back to gather people's reads.

Not really getting a scum feel from mitch at the moment. I don't like how Dakky's already back to his default FoS on mitch and is pushing on End.

I was kinda scumreading rizky and townreading ana - like bosaa said, we don't really know any of rizky's reads right now, not even early D2 reads, even though he said he's working on his list of suspects. I thought ana's post was a good push, but End brought up some good points. Not really enough to get me to townread rizky, but enough to get me to look twice at ana, since both of his pushes were on newer players.

I'm kind of neutral on bosaa right now - playing more like a confused new player than anything else. Not sure I like how she already had a list made before D2, but it also helps to show thought process.

I would like to see bosaa's updated list, as well as knowing ana's actual top 2 picks for mafia (was a bit circumspect about the push on rizky, pushing without wanting to call him scum).

fp'd by IB - Unfortunately, we don't know that anymore. Streaker said we have 2 guaranteed random PRs and up to 3 extra random PRs, with cop and bodyguard one of the random options, rather than having cop and bodyguard confirmed. So we might not have a bodyguard, and we might not have a cop, depending on how many perks mafia took. (With streaker saying doubles are possible, though, it would have been hilarious to end up with 5 cops or 5 vigis)

important mod note

Mod made an error when randomizing power roles. Town has been given 2 + x power roles (x being mafia power roles), however no guarantee for cop and bodyguard.
The entire list was ra ndomized and duplicate results are possible, however not confirmed by this post.

[anamainiacks]

Curious as to why dakky is voting for Endgame though, since they're pretty much in the same boat?

Why does it looks like you're trying to say "You are not in the same boat as you two" ?

I voted endgame because of the gut feeling that he voted rose to get town trust, and rose's "good game endgame" answer pretty much fortified that feeling.

Sorry I don't quite get your first sentence... but by "the same boat", I meant that both you and Endgame were the ones that created the momentum on the vote on TWR (which I mentioned makes me lean town on both of you). Thanks for the response though, and I get where you're coming from with that. But I'm not sure if we can read so much into that at this point.

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@ anam, excellent post, very helpful and well thought out, for me i now read you as my most certain townie.

This post is rather interesting with rose confirmed mafia,when you combine this with anamain also pushing dakky,who im relatively confident is town over TWR but not really linking himself to TWR either,he never votes TWR despite saying he will.

As mentioned in my earlier post, I'm still not convinced by dakky.

Vote dakky21, but as things stand, I would be equally fine with a TWR lynch.

I can't control what TWR says. The thought did occur to me that he was trying to pocket me, but if I started suspected everyone that said they read me as town, that'd get me nowhere.

I did have the opportunity to hammer TWR - after PT counterclaimed, and before Streaker posted his modnote of his mistake. But I didn't hammer, because we had lots of time before the deadline, and I wanted us to discuss as much as we needed.

Consider the context: it was practically a given at that point that TWR was going to be lynched. Any time there's a counterclaim for a power role, the initial suspect gets lynched. The only situation in which there would've been any reason to doubt TWR's lynch was if there was an error and possibly 2 trackers. But we didn't know that was the case at that point (and it's plain folly to hope for mod errors). So the smart thing for scum to do at that point would've been to get on the wagon and hope to get some town cred. There'd be no sense in holding off from a vote, hoping in vain that the lynch wouldn't happen, and have suspicion thrown on you for not getting on the wagon.

I suspected dakky over TWR because the case on dakky was based on what he'd been posting in this game; the case on TWR (before he claimed) was largely based on a comparison of his activity to another game of his. As I've never played with TWR, I had no point of reference for that observation. I think a vote based on what I could see is better than a vote based on others' accounts of comparative play, especially on D1 when I don't know who I can trust.

So far he has only pushed on dakky and mostly rizky. Both of which seem like low hanging fruit for scum to get an early mislynch.
D2 Anamains list of actions thus far
1. Cast doubt on accidental mod confirming vig.
2. Pushs rizky with a full paragraph but no vote.

How are they low hanging fruit? O.o

It's been less than 24 hours for D2, so I think such a list made for anyone at this point would be understandably short. Not all pushes have to come with votes, especially if I'm waiting to see how a player responds, which would affect my read.

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Streaker put me in the night scene because Town has an advantage with PRs it seems. They are forced to target me or try and find some else.

I WILL target who I think is scum tonight. So scum need to think twice about their night kill. I alsonotice that Ptlowe was not saved by the body guard.

Does town really have the advantage? We may not have a cop or bodyguard anymore, so really it might even be possible that you and PT were our only power roles.

--------

Also, just a head's up, my next 2 days are going to be insanely busy with full days of classes, assignments and internship interviews, so pardon me if my activity wanes. I'll try my best to come in.


FP'ed by Mars

I wasn't aware I've been pushing newer players; to be honest I still don't know who's new and who's old here - my last mafia game on this forum was more than a year ago, and the previous game before that was 2 years ago. The only player I know I've played with before is IB. For now I just know rizky and bosaa are kind of new. I was actually under the impression that dakky's pretty experienced.

As for my top 2 picks, I'm undecided about rizky and am waiting for his response to my question from earlier. I was reading Tim and IB as possible scum, but of course whatever happened over N1 has changed that. Haven't had the time to look over everyone's post in detail again, so for the rest I haven't mentioned before, I only have slight vibes. Will post about my suspects when I have time to look over it.

[Endgame422]

Ok so anas post there regarding context and having no control over what rose said are fair points but im still unconvinced that we have a stronger case then that and my vote stays for the moment
-bosaardbeitje Was pushing dakky over TWR yesterday,maybe innocently but maybe not. Im interested to hear her revised thoughts on who is scum.
-dakky21 Almost positive dakky is town here
-the white rose, mafia goon, lynched D1.
-MADmitch He jumped on TWR really easily,if hes scum im guessing he is the unrecruited traitor.
Speaking of which with our 2 guaranteed PRs outted if your a PR reading this(besides IB) you know scum have added powers.
-Marashu Mars hasnt really jumped out at me with any very srong feelings. Im not real sure what to make of him right now.
-Anamainiacks Case made
-TimWoodbury, Vanilla Townie, killed N1.
-WingCmdr Ginkapo Not sure why your holding back wing,id value your opinion on ana vs rizky and on boss in general
-ptlowe, Town Tracker, killed N1.
-rizky_biznezz Id guess soft town for rizky,he seems to be trying to get his reads out even if he isnt explaining them/backing them up as well as i would like.
-Iron Butterfly Vig

[rizky_biznezz]

@bos-- my suspects at the moment depend on the scenario we are dealing with and seeing as i dont know its hard for me to settle... now if we believe Dakky and end to be town then as i mentioned before i would be looking at you... and im still not convinced by anam.. however if dakky or end took the clever but risky play of getting their scum buddy lynched then it throws my theories out of the window

@anam-- not quite full cases just my thoughts at the time, the last set was after the lynch so fairly rushed before night was called and really only in case i was nightkilled, i thought i would leave as much as i could... i don't have any real town reads so yes i am working on multiples to try and rule someone out and also to see what others have to add.. i seem to just be confusing people so i will try and pick one or two people to focus on

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

I did have the opportunity to hammer TWR - after PT counterclaimed, and before Streaker posted his modnote of his mistake. But I didn't hammer, because we had lots of time before the deadline, and I wanted us to discuss as much as we needed.

Consider the context: it was practically a given at that point that TWR was going to be lynched. Any time there's a counterclaim for a power role, the initial suspect gets lynched. The only situation in which there would've been any reason to doubt TWR's lynch was if there was an error and possibly 2 trackers. But we didn't know that was the case at that point (and it's plain folly to hope for mod errors). So the smart thing for scum to do at that point would've been to get on the wagon and hope to get some town cred. There'd be no sense in holding off from a vote, hoping in vain that the lynch wouldn't happen, and have suspicion thrown on you for not getting on the wagon.

Ony mafia overthink their own moves this much. What is this? Justifying yourself with WIFOM?

@End - I was away for the weekend so until tonight I cannot read over with my laptop. My tablet keeps me in the game but its a nightmare to review a whole days play. I remember AnaManic raised my sense D1.

[rizky_biznezz]

still early D2 and not the strongest of cases but my thoughts on Bos:

firstly she doesnt seem to be trying as hard this game to scum hunt.

i sided with bos at the time about the way IB's question was asked now that IB is town her reaction is a little suss and she did drop it fairly quickly once nobody got on board... once endgames vote on WR came up Bos was quick to put some more people under suspicion to see what stuck:

At the moment I am suspicious of Ptlowe for his interaction with me during the joke vote fase. Besides TWR, I also feel that Dakky is very quiet compared to normal. Rizky seems to have chosen the 'wait and see' approach again. I am also not sure whether I like that.

once mitch votes dakky, bos follows.. defending WR by saying Dakky is doing the same thing:

@ Dakky, you are calling out TWR for a lack of substance during the first days of the game. I fail to see how that is different from your own play. Your posts don't include much new information either. You voted TWR at the beginning of the game, then you come back 4 days later and simply stick with your vote

was willing to lynch dakky even though we wouldnt learn anything from the flip if he was town...her not willing to change vote was before the claim... but even after when roses story got messed up she never voted WR:

Rizky raised some good points about what we will learn from the flip. We need to keep the bigger picture in mind. I still can't shake the feeling of Dakky being scum, so I am not willing to change my vote right now. At the moment the 2 main suspects are not really addressing the accusations. TWR is being defensive and Dakky doesn't say much at all, I don't know which behaviour is scummier.

spent day 1 saying she didnt find mitch scummy but he is her main suspect in her list of reads leading in to D2... another quick change...

has also posted twice that she finds anam town without much of a reason but which rose also posted

[bosaardbeitje]

Well, at least we know where you stand now, even if I am your main suspect.

How exactly have I not been trying to scumhunt? I believe I am pulling my weight, and haven't been hiding or trying to skate by.

I already explained why I didn't pursue a lynch on IB. Also, I didn't defend TWR. The case on TWR was based on knowledge about the player and a lack of participation. I based my vote on knowledge I have about Dakky and his lack of participation. Same assumptions, the difference being that Dakky was right and I was wrong. Plus, I didn't understand how someone can have only 1 scumread all D1 and not add any other information.

I think it's good to try and learn something from a flip, but I also believe that mafia will try to prevent we learn something from it. Which makes it one aspect to consider, but I'd rather not base my opinion solely on that.

I wasn't around when Ptlowe counterclaimed and the second wagon on TWR built up, but even if I would have been here I would have stuck with my vote on Dakky, because I felt quite strong about it. Plus, I already thought that Ptlowe was acting weird towards me in the joke vote stage, so I didn't trust him either.

I said that I wasn't leaning one way or the other with Mitch D1 and yes I think he's more scummy now. Mitch is not a player who elaborates a lot, but often he does have a clear opinion about things and I haven't seen that this game yet. I am not voting for him right now, because I want to hear more from him and look for a possible partner. Also, I realise I read too many people as Town or neutral right now. The fact that IB turns out to be innocent threw me off, so I need to re-read and reconsider based on the latest input and input to come.

One thing that has changed already is that I can't assume that Dakky and End are automatically innocent. I didn't think that through. They might as well be scum. There were 3 mafiosos D1, so maybe losing 1 of them wasn't that big a deal.

I am reading Anam as Town because we seem to have similar thoughts, don't know if that's a good enough reason, but I am looking for 1 or 2 persons who I sort of trust simply because not everyone in here can be scum.

Knew votes did not carry over ,just stirring the pot to see what jumped out

Curious what you have learned from stirring the pot. Oh, and when are you going to share your ideas with us?

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

Tim what on earth were you on about?

@ End I don't understand your vote unless you are trying to get a result from TWR. also you yourself have not made any clear posts ,so you should vote for your self

The White Rose tends to post as often as you do. Now look at how many times you have posted in this game and how many time White Rose has posted. Somethings up, and End is just wanting to know what that is.

idk i think twr loves positing as much as i then he dose mitch

And is this a defence of TWR?

i think posting in general is down this game because a few of the more ctive psters are in multiple games and were trying to not mix games up. its unfortunate side effect

Subtle defending or Innocent remark? Could be either:

I've not been in a real game with rose before, so I'm not sure what's up with that meta, but I don't really think that activity = alignment.

Mars does post this also (at a time when no bandwagon had formed properly), so I lean towards innocent remark:

If I may speculate, I'm wondering if scum took daychat. Might explain why some normally chatty people aren't as talkative - it would be eating at their time, while also giving them a chance to coordinate stalling.

I get a feeling off a TWR, Boss, AnaManiac group. Dakky was continuing to repost versions of his case on TWR all day, and the below was in response to that.

@ Dakky, you are calling out TWR for a lack of substance during the first days of the game. I fail to see how that is different from your own play. Your posts don't include much new information either. You voted TWR at the beginning of the game, then you come back 4 days later and simply stick with your vote. You don't address any other things that have been going on. To me that makes you either scummy or uninterested. It also surprises me that it took a prod from Streaker to get you back in here, since I know how often you are online. Combining that with the speculation from Maras about day chat, I think that could mean you were busy making sneaky plans.

Ptlowe, TWR and Anam (I missed that earlier) have also been quiet for a while. Out of those Anam looks most Town to me because of the last post with lots of content. Ptlowe and TWR haven't convinced me of their innocence so far. And now we seem to have lost IB...

@ anam, excellent post, very helpful and well thought out, for me i now read you as my most certain townie.

Wtf was this ^

AnaManiacs:

As mentioned in my earlier post, I'm still not convinced by dakky.

Vote dakky21, but as things stand, I would be equally fine with a TWR lynch.

Would that be this post, viewtopic.php?f=213&t=215356&start=150#p4747573
or this one? viewtopic.php?f=213&t=215356&start=100#p4747114

Neither really mentions Dakky...

So my summary is. Tim explain what on earth goes on in your head please?
My reads are Boss and AnaManiac. I'm also letting go of my tunnel on Mars, he seems alright.