[Official] Wheel of Time:EotW [8/14] D4:Twisted Pattern

[HotShot53]

My next question is, would these powers that mitch or hotshot got be a hinderance to town if mafia got a hold of them? Or neutral? Or helpful to town even if the mafia had them? I'm thinking we should look to lynch someone outside of mitch, for that alone.

FoS End - I asked about lynching mitch before it became known that he was involved in that trade, and because I feel like part of what makes him dangerous is that he also votes strangely even when town. I feel like you're trying to win some town points.

I agree with this, he seems to be going with the town buddy plus the easy lynch all in one. I would not lynch mitch, as I'd rather see the results of his night action. So storr, I'd like my vote to go on end for right now.

[StorrZerg]

All right

[rishaed]

Vote Count:

WCmdrG (1) - mtamburini
dd515 (1) - WCmdrG
Endgame (1) - hotshot53
IB (1) - Talapus
madmitch (3) - Endgame, IB, Streaker
virus90 (2) - Storr, madmitch

With 14 alive it takes 8 to lynch.
Deadline on 28.6.15

[StorrZerg]

And my role is proven.

[Iron Butterfly]

5 days in to a 10 day deadline and already four votes of Mitch? What am I missing

So 5 days in with 5 to go, who would you suggest is good to look at?

Virus and DD have been non entities so far.

My vote is on Mitch for a reason. He has been the only one who has caught my eye so far, though several folks are on my radar.

What we have so far is people focusing on how the day actions work, specifically how individual players actions work. It has no bearing on alignment and is easy to keep the fog of war hiding mafia. Though it is also plays in Towns favor. If Storr is Town and I am leading Town on him he has a potentially powerful role, which could attract mafia. lol could be funny if everyone visited him.

So Hotshot and Mitch visited Storr, lost their vote in exchange for ???? action.

Now would this be independent of Hotshots and Mitches day visit power? Maybe negated, what happens with Storr visiting someone?

Storr is this a correct summation of what has happened with you?


Mtam I was leaning Town...at first. He thought he had something came out guns ablazing, was shot down with his theory and now he is silent. Then again he tends to do this during games.

Storr leaning Town...Hes given a lot of information to the point I think hes Town. His mistake with PRs makes sense to me as shit like that has happened to me. Hotshot and Mitch can confirm.That does not necessarily make Hotshot and Mitch Town.

Wing Town....just gut.. his rebuttal to Mets and Me after his observation on Marasu...seemed sincere and to the point.

End... leaning scum BUT I can not disagree with his observation on Mitch. He could be a liability.

Something we do not know...does mafia get to day visit?

If you were mafia, visited storr, lost your vote and gained a power would you tell Town? I would ask both Hotshot and Mitch what made them visit Storr.

Hotshot and Mitch what made you visit Storr?

You all may notice I have no mafia leans....as I stated earlier we seem to be more interested in day action mechanics at the moment, several folks are lying low...to the point of scumminess.

Streaking leaning scum, Virus, DD...

Just my ramblings...ya know what vote Streaker

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

Before I put effort into a longer post, your vote, IB, is the only vote for Madmitch which wasnt on the sole basis of him being least useful town.

[Marashu]

Doesn't matter right now what the items are. They both are pro town. Inquiring more doesn't help to find mafia. Only gives mafia an ideas. Best to leave them in doubt about what's happening. Even if one of them is mafia who visited me, they won't know the other item.
The only thing to debate is is it worth trading your vote to me, someone who is "unknown" ( but I'm obviously town) I'll still allow input with vote, and I expect input. Votes become more valuable latter in the game.

a hinderance to town if mafia got a hold of them? Or neutral? Or helpful to town even if the mafia had them?

Do you want mafia to know that?

My line of reasoning was that if the mafia could use the power to hurt town, we should definitely continue to consider the mitch lynch. That's all I wanted to know, and I feel like that's a good enough answer. I'll drop this line of questioning.

If two people were willing to trade the vote, then I think it probably was worth it, especially since has been helpful for discussion's sake alone. Though it's strange that hotshot led us on thinking it was stolen and not traded.

fp'd by storr, IB, Wing.
IB, Storr already said he visited someone and nothing happened with it. The trades happened because they visited Storr. From what I understand, that was their day visit powers.

[StorrZerg]

People who visited me didn't know what they would get by trading.

[HotShot53]

Hotshot and Mitch what made you visit Storr?

I visited him because I figured as he is the most prolific poster, and the leader on many lynches, I was hoping visiting him will clue me in on whether to trust him or not. With no way of knowing what would happen from anyone I visited, I figured that was my best bet.

[madmitch]

i decided to visit storr because it seemed like I could talk to to him, but that really didn,t happen, I WAS TOLD I COULD VISIT ANYONE SO I THOUGHT THAT I COULD GET A READING ON IF THEY WERE SCUM OR TOWN, THAT DIDN,T HAPPEN, I WAS JUST OFFER A TRADE AND I ACCEPTED, IF I AM STILL ALIVE TOMMOROW I HOPE TO VISIT SOMEONE ELSE

[StorrZerg]

Not interested in lynching
mtamb Strong town read
hotshot got item want him to use (also like why he visited me, sounds like it came from a town mindset)
mitch got item want him to use
wing liked the way he was pushing discussion

suppose others as well, ill add to the list latter, don't want to limit discussion to much.

@madmitch no need to caps lock post XD, eye i do hope you are alive tomorrow.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

If Storr is Town and I am leading Town on him he has a potentially powerful role, which could attract mafia.

I was hoping nobody was going to say this. Storr is downplaying it, but there is only one character that fits and they are quite important. However, we will have at least one healer if not two, so mafia may be wiser looking elsewhere. Also Storr is not Rand, and Rand will undoubtedly be the most powerful town role.

If you were mafia, visited storr, lost your vote and gained a power would you tell Town?

Semantics, Storr has already said he was only visited by two people. So it sounds like mafia would not be able to hide the fact.

End - I agree his observation on Mitch is true, and I made a similar point. But come on first input of the game to vote Mitch because he is town? Same with Streaker. At least Streaker managed to use his vote initially to push Mitch for information which appeared to work well. Not done anything since.

DD isnt actually inactive. He has logged in a few times today and posted nothing. The person you are forgetting who has been inactive is Got Tonkaed. He has been posting in HP game.

Mets is playing his passive play, so could be anything. I'm not sure how I feel about Talapus, seems to be playing the confused card quite easily. Thought he was better than that. Withholding judgement on Virus till tonights post, so far he hasnt offered a great deal outside of defense against peoples early accusations against him.

Flavour wise and balance wise I would think its unlikely that Storr is Mafia. And I still think IB is town.

[Metsfanmax]

i am not telling what I got, I DO NOT WANT SCUM TO KNOW, IF YOU WANT TO GET RID OF ME FOR NOT TELLING THAT IS PRETTY SCUMMY. why don,t you tell everyone what powers you have

Agreed with others that bringing it up just to say you got an item didn't really help us. It looks like it confirmed that Storr has this trading power, but that doesn't to me say anything about his alignment. I don't like that people are assuming he's town because of this, which is why this concerns me.

Mtam likely town. Don't like Storr's early 'look at me i'm 100% confirmed town' play.

That's Storr's early play in every game. If we leave a D1 without a Storr claim I'd be shocked.

The ability I got is town, but I agree there is no reason to say what it is.

This bugs the hell out of me. There's no such thing as a "town ability" or a "pro-town ability." If you think of just about every power that exists in mafia, it's plausible for both town and mafia to have it (killing, roleblocking, jailkeeping, doctoring, etc.). I have no clue how hotshot can say it's a town ability (unless it's something really weird). Plus Storr could easily have given a "town-leaning" ability (if this even does exist) regardless of whether he was mafia or not. And Storr suggested that he has no control over what they get? On the other hand, this exchange makes sense if Storr and Hotshot are scum buddies.



Not sure how to read Endgame. He says:

Scum doesnt need an easy lynch day one and scum would also be pleased to keep mitch as he generally sows confusion and never hunts scum.

If the choice is between guaranteed town lynch (even if it's madmitch) and possible scum lynch, a madmitch push might be worthwhile. Especially if it would build town cred for Mars.

The only thing to debate is is it worth trading your vote to me, someone who is "unknown" ( but I'm obviously town) I'll still allow input with vote, and I expect input. Votes become more valuable latter in the game

This doesn't make any sense. They're your votes, use them to vote the way you believe. Especially given the possibility that they're mafia, you shouldn't give them any special consideration in determining where they go. Said another way, why should Hotshot have any more say in where his vote goes than I do, after it has been traded? They knew the risks involved in losing their vote in return for the item/ability.

Storr is downplaying it, but there is only one character that fits and they are quite important. However, we will have at least one healer if not two, so mafia may be wiser looking elsewhere. Also Storr is not Rand, and Rand will undoubtedly be the most powerful town role.

A bold statement to make for someone who admitted they didn't read the book.

[madmitch]

I honestly do not know if Storr is mafia or not? I was told I could visit someone and I did, I was offer a trade for my vote and I accepted, so if I had of visited someone else maybe I would of been offer something else or it might have been completely different,Iwill not know until I visit again.So as of now Storr has my vote and can place it anywhere :

[dd515087]

Thats it? You put more effort into your threat to vote for me.

Sigh, whats the friggin point.

What is the friggin point of what? Playing mafia? Defending your posts? Whats with the sigh? Not like you have been under a lot of pressure.

I was doubtful of Mtams initial point...but you really seem like your trying very hard to come off as Town right out of the gate.

This I don't really like. How is he trying to come off as town in this post? At this point in time all that has been talked about really is getting Potter replaced and mtam pushing Wings on absolutely nothing like mtam always does, this is how he reads people. Also Wings is normally very active and tries to lead town in my experience playing with him.

What you call BS I call scum slip. Potter can still be town but wing is always scum.

Now that doesn't even make sense... if they weren't both scum, how would a scum know a town is getting replaced any more than a random town would?

Theres this place where a group of people chat, where they openly discuss strategies. It may have occured there, get a clue.

So talking about scumslips, what makes you think that scum can talk during the day?

In a previous game I was able to communicate with my teammates before the day had started and ask mod questions in the chat instead of sending PMs

Previous games have nothing to do with current games. You know that.

Bit odd, he was online today, about 6-7 hours ago.

This has been brought up many times, mostly by Wings. I do actually play RISK on here too guys and I try and play in my games whenever I have a chance to, if I don't have much time I will play those and not even check mafia threads.

FIRST!

Random.org sugested i had to jokevote nr 3; WingCmdr, must say that i excluded myself from the generater. maybe someone else can vote me for that. but we will see that in the ent.

Very awkward post. Considering he is mixing "joke vote" + "rng vote" doing them separately to create discussion is one thing, Doing it to avoid discussion is another (which is what he is doing). He is really bad at trying to drum up discussion and play town as mafia. Secondly the awkward call out that someone can vote him. All ready trying to create distance from this suggestion he made and down playing it.

what i note most of all of this is that IB is joining, i dont expect that from IB in general.
rest is pretty much chatter to me so far. bit of ifs and stuff in my opinion.

his second post is also strange. No detail as to what exactly he is talking about. No quoted text etc. Is he referring to IB joining the game? Joining discussion? Additionally he also again town plays whats going on. He isnt' trying to look for scum with this attitude.

This is typical virus though, he won't post unless something catches his eye, which up to this point in the thread there really is nothing to go on IMO. I do agree that his first post is weird, not because he does "jokevote + rng" at the same time but for the fact that he didn't actually place his vote down.

FIRST!

Random.org sugested i had to jokevote nr 3; WingCmdr, must say that i excluded myself from the generater. maybe someone else can vote me for that. but we will see that in the ent.

Very awkward post. Considering he is mixing "joke vote" + "rng vote" doing them separately to create discussion is one thing, Doing it to avoid discussion is another (which is what he is doing). He is really bad at trying to drum up discussion and play town as mafia. Secondly the awkward call out that someone can vote him. All ready trying to create distance from this suggestion he made and down playing it.

what i note most of all of this is that IB is joining, i dont expect that from IB in general.
rest is pretty much chatter to me so far. bit of ifs and stuff in my opinion.

his second post is also strange. No detail as to what exactly he is talking about. No quoted text etc. Is he referring to IB joining the game? Joining discussion? Additionally he also again town plays whats going on. He isnt' trying to look for scum with this attitude.

Once again I think it is a question of English not being his first language. His point on me I think was about me joking...not "joining"...I could be wrong though joking is the only way it makes sense. *grin* as usual he is also wrong. He seems a little more off so far this game.

6 pages in. IB seems to be posting just to look active at this point, the rest of you (for the most part) seem to be grasping at straws for anything that can be considered scummy, which is townie IMO.

tambn and i might as well be confirmed masons this game. its cool

As this is clearly going to annoy people I shall do my best to explain whats going on.

Mtam and Storr have eyed each other up and gone into partnership, both on the belief that they can outwit their mate and will spot him immediately if they try to do anything scummy. Whilst annoying as it means they are playing a side game between themselves its not that harmful to us except in one circumstance.

If both are town then everything is fine, and they will work very closely together to catch scum. Fantastic news.

If one is town, then they will lead the conversation along a path of catching scum, and the mafia player will be controlled and unable to influence discussion. This scenario isnt wonderful for us, but we just have to trust that the town player has the measure of the other and will either prevent him from influencing things or catch him in the act. Its much harder to pretend to be town with someone you know well especially when they asked you to be extremely pro town and openly discuss all with them. I personally believe that if only one of them is town, they will oust the other. If one dies in suspicious circumstances then we need to look at the other, until then leave it a few days.

If both are mafia then were screwed. This is the one we need to keep our eyes open for.

They do this in every game though, I don't see why there is a need to explain this.

hotshots vote is controlled by mafia.

hotshots vote is controlled by mafia.

well i've seen it go both ways, how ever a town vote thief should claim.
Reason being, we find out about why hotshots vote was stolen (a town does it because they don't like hotshot)
If no one claims it then we can assume mafia did it, thus we can then town read hotshot, since mafia have no reason to use it against themselves.
Also if a town does have this power and used it, then they can help lead town from a semi confirmed place. Additionally the power isn't that strong as to mafia wanting to kill them either, since it isn't a cop or medic role.

In that case I have a suspicion.

MADMITCH - Did you steal Hotshots vote?

So in his two posts Storr implies that mafia would have the vote. At this point in time if Hotshot knows that his vote is gone shouldn't Storr know that he has it.

RE Wings: Why would you randomly suspect madmitch and how do you suspect him for a character already? Nobody has read the books excepts Mars so I don't see how you could suspect him as any character.

hotshots vote is controlled by mafia.

Are you taking into account that it may be a random effect?

Hotshot says he has been informed his vote has been stolen. With that statement does that now clear Hotshot as Town?

The game is very early. From my experience a vote stealer just steals the vote and one notices during a vote count. Granted this is a different mod but I have never seen a person notified that they no longer have control of their vote. Someone correct me if they have experience otherwise.

The point I am making is that at this stage of the game nothing should be assumed.

More filler BS about game mechanics from IB.

Then mafia won't mind claiming to have stolen his vote.

Either way this sets precident latter in the game when someone does claim.
So it's better to claim now, rather than latter or no claim

Page 7 Storr keeps saying that he thinks mafia have the vote.

Got really pissed of with you and Mtam playing your only little game.

Again they ALWAYS do this, you should know this by now.

Hotshot what did you get

Page 8. I know that Storr has tried to explain this away by now, but still

Streaker, Endgame, Talapus and whomever I missed...DD.....get your asses in here and post.

I, as I have said, don't believe IB has added anything of value up until this point in the game, I don't like that he calls out inactives as he doesn't really seem to be scumhunting himself.

hi Wing ,how was your day? mine was fine. how is the weather? it is hot and muggy here, there do you feel better now? glad I could help

How does this help us find the mafia? If you dont start contributing to games you will find that you get lynched day one regardless. I say this now because I believe you to have a minor town role and to be of minimal loss to us. If I cant find a decent candidate to vote I shall be advocating that you get lynched on this basis.

It was clearly a joke because you said you were bored and had nobody to talk to. What makes you think he has a minor town role? Also if you believe he has a town role, regardless of how minor it is, you should be looking to lynch someone else and not go for the easy lynch.

Wing, is there a reason you're looking so heavily into flavour?

Nobody is talking to me and I am bored

Bs. I'm talking / have been and you leave stuff vague or don't follow up

And the purpose of this is? I've only been vague with Madmitchs Character, and I am doing that intentionally. If you want to fish for this, go fish for it from him, I'm not telling.

The purpose is that he's calling you out on what he sees as BS. Which you respond to with deflection towards madmitch.

hi Wing ,how was your day? mine was fine. how is the weather? it is hot and muggy here, there do you feel better now? glad I could help

I think this is a perfect example of what others have said and don't ;ike your playstyle. Was this truely necessary?

Again, it was clearly a joke I don't see how madmitch gets so much shit for this.

For the amount of confusion it would create, maybe we should lynch madmitch while we can afford to. And for all we know, we might be hitting mafia. Better than doing it late game. Can anyone present a reason not to?

You want to lynch madmitch to create confusion? Also seems like jumping on what could eventually turn in to an easy bandwagon.

(to be continued)

[dd515087]

Ok, you shouldn't claim what you got. I know what it is. I control Hotshot's vote.

Well I'm pretty sure I do. Someone else has visited me. 5 hey should claim as well I think... odd that they didn't claim vote loss as well

Here's where Storr claims knowledge of everything. I'm not sure why there would have been such a large gap between Hotshot knowing that his vote is gone AND that he got something in exchange for it and Storr claiming. I feel like as soon as Hotshot is told he is given something Storr would be told that he has control of Hotshot's vote. I also don't think that just because whatever gift Hotshot was given might be town-oriented proves Storr as town. Storr is given more power over the lynch in exchange for giving the townies something that could benefit them, that's called balance. If Storr is town and gets lynch-control and gives benefits to more townies in exchange that is unbalanced IMO.

Hotshot can vouch that I'm nearly confirmed based on what happened. I can't be mafia with my power.

Next post he tries to get himself confirmed as town.

mitch, why would you vote virus?

Mitch claims he traded his vote away, but that he would vote virus if he could (with no reasoning) points to Mars for calling him out, minus for mitch for not explaining. BUT I'm not really sure how to read mitch, seems like the same meta as in the other game.

if I HAD MY VOTE I WOULD VOTE VIRUS BUT I CAN,T I ALSO TRADED MY VOTE AWAY

We have one vote stealer/borrower/ trader claimed by Storr. I find it hard to believe we would have two such roles independent of each other.

Now two things. I still found your response to Mars in regards to lore extremely defensive.When I brought to your attention your meta I am used to you cam right back with your old wise ass self in regards to Wing being bored.

Second unless your vote was traded because of Storr involvement you need to better explain your situation.

unvote VOTE Madmitch

Feeling much better about IB after this post. Also he's the only one who went after madmitch for a reason other than "even if he's townie I want to lynch him.

to Mars 1 Agree to what storr had to say on pg 6 to IB my option traded . to Talapus it was good trade.back to iron butterfly never meant to be defensive,only talking about knowing the names and who they were in the books nothing else,as my remark to wcg it was a joke just like all the other little puns so far ;. example joke votes,and me trading had nothing to do with storr and I do not think it is wise for me to explain anything else. all I can say is IN A GADDA DA VIDA

You make it so hard to defend you ya know? It seems like his trade had nothing to do with Storr? Whoever is in control of his vote should come forward.

hotshots vote is controlled by mafia.

Why did you say this then?

Points to wings. Can't wait to see Storr's response.

Ok so I missed my day action (after game started only 2 friggin days). f*ck that shit. Still sent it in, we'll see if it does anything.

Not wasting Time, Vote Mitch.

Answer the very good question related to your vote 'swap'. What did you get for it? You clearly stated that you 'traded' it.

Streaker: "Oh people want to vote mitch because he doesn't always post very clearly! I'll hop on this vote wagon! Mitch also said that he made a good trade, let me try and fish around for whatever power he got to, it would be useful info for my scum buddies and I."
^
That's what I believe Streaker is really trying to say with that post.

i am not telling what I got, I DO NOT WANT SCUM TO KNOW, IF YOU WANT TO GET RID OF ME FOR NOT TELLING THAT IS PRETTY SCUMMY. why don,t you tell everyone what powers you have

Why did you tell us, and the scum, that you lost your vote? And why did you say you got something in return? Now you just made everyone curious, and you let scum know you have a power. Also since you are reluctant to share, they now know you have something that is likely powerfull.

I'm not lett

mitch, why would you vote virus?

Also, answer this question please.
Mitch, do you consider rambling about nothing a good way to contribute to this game? Iron called out a few, including myself. You feel threatened by this? Because you sure did react strongly to it...

I feel as if it is very reasonable for him to not tell us. Also, why aren't you asking HotShot the same questions? Then he sheeps Mars's question towards mitch.

Also with that, i will allow hotshot and mitch to have input on where they would like their vote, they can vote as normal

with that madmitch to virus, and hotshot vote was a test to see if it worked, it will show up on no one right now.

Trying to buy more townie cred by letting them have input?

@Wing I didn't know, then I knew. I got a msg. So while I was going on about Hotshot's alignment and who took his vote, I didn't know anyone visited me.

This answer makes sense, and is even rather obvious. I wonder why Wing would push this.
Though I still don't see how this clears you as mafia.

It's definitely not obvious, I give Wings townie points for pushing it. Also you seem to be more than satisfied with Storr's answer, but aren't willing to clear him yet or even say you are leaning town. Is this so you can bus your scum buddy later if he comes under fire?

Sigh. I got a msg saying my visit returned nothing. I assumed that also meant no one visited me. I got another msg much latter. Which I then claimed to have Hotshot's vote as well as someone else.

I'm town. Not 3rd party.

Storr constantly reaffirming himself as town Also I'm pretty sure calling you 3rd part was just a joke so I have no idea why you even had to respond to that.

Does everyone have the ability to "visit" someone during the day?
And IB i said id be gone for the weekend so not sure why you were pushing me sunday morning guessing you just were not paying attention.
im thinking mars pushing the easy lynch on mitch seems townish to me. Scum doesnt need an easy lynch day one and scum would also be pleased to keep mitch as he generally sows confusion and never hunts scum.
That said VOTE MITCH
Its not the nice thing to do but in another flavoured game like this(where i expect mitch to post 99percent nonsense)i think mitch will be an easy late game lynch for scum and id rather not worry about him later.
And i dont put much on viruss slip. He is ESL and words things a bit strangely as a rule.
And ill wait and see if everyone can visit someone before going into the storr/HS vote exchange thing.

Rolefishing much? Also I still see no use in people voting mitch just because he is "an easy lynch" or "doesn't scumhunt much" I feel like actually lynching someone you think is scum is much more useful if you are town. Pushing the madmitch lynch seems like a convenient way for people to not scumhunt.

As far as Storr. His answer sounds reasonable though I now laugh at the irony of his present situation given our initial exchange on Hotshot.

To me the initial exchange seems like something Storr would do to gain town cred and then later he can say that he didn't get a message until later on and now he is confirmed town because of the powers he gave out. This is Storr guys all he does is make bold moves and play mind games.

I don,t know how many people have the ability to visit somebody but I know I did that was my only day ability and hopefully I can use it for town . Ido not understand endgame vote against me but it is quite unremarkable and slightly scummy FOS

Now I'm confused. You said visiting someone was your only day ability but in the prior post you didn't know what you were trading for. That makes it sound like you instigated the trade but until you found out what you were getting you weren't going to go through with it. So what is it Mitch, visit someone and trade, or just visit and the trade some how happened?

Because it sounds like you have more then the ability to just visit people. Also, was this a fair trade? Because you said you got something awesome. The reason I ask is because it is fairly easy to prove if someone traded something mutually with you. However, there is the possibility you visited someone and stole an ability and there was no trade. So again, please clarify.

It is visiting Storr that initiates the trade, nobody ever said anything opposite of that. Also, do we know whether or not madmitch visited Storr or someone else yet? It seems like Storr is saying they both visited him. AND at this point he has only said there was a trade, no need for clarification as there shouldn't have been any confusion... ya know unless you were just trying to make a post after skimming so that you seem active and trying to scumhunt.

Hmm. I think I'm sold on Storr being town. I just want to confirm, though, Storr - it's people who visit you who get the option to trade? It's a passive thing of yours? And you also have a visit action on top of this?

Does everyone have the ability to "visit" someone during the day?

I will confirm that I have the ability to visit someone during the day.

Why are you sold on Storr? Also why are you confirming your ability? You still seem town I just don't understand your play and I think you need to be more distrusting of people in this game.

My next question is, would these powers that mitch or hotshot got be a hinderance to town if mafia got a hold of them? Or neutral? Or helpful to town even if the mafia had them? I'm thinking we should look to lynch someone outside of mitch, for that alone.

FoS End - I asked about lynching mitch before it became known that he was involved in that trade, and because I feel like part of what makes him dangerous is that he also votes strangely even when town. I feel like you're trying to win some town points.

Next post you point FoS at someone you just revealed at least part of your role to...

Doesn't matter right now what the items are. They both are pro town. Inquiring more doesn't help to find mafia. Only gives mafia an ideas. Best to leave them in doubt about what's happening. Even if one of them is mafia who visited me, they won't know the other item.
The only thing to debate is is it worth trading your vote to me, someone who is "unknown" ( but I'm obviously town) I'll still allow input with vote, and I expect input. Votes become more valuable latter in the game.

"Don't look any deeper into my power accept it as town" and another reaffirmation that he is town... IMO your play should speak for you and you shouldn't have to keep saying "I'm town, I'm town" over and over again.

And my role is proven.

Doesn't make you town.

[dd515087]

I like IB and Mets's long posts on this page leaning town on them for now.

Not sure how I feel about Endgame, Talapus... can't really get a read on them. Neutral.

Leaning town on mtam, seems like typical townie mtam play, but he has fallen off the grid a bit.

Mitch I'm neutral on, not sure how to read him either, but I don't like the push against him.

HotShot I'm leaning town on. Mars I'm leaning town on. Virus is MIA.

Storr and Streaker I believe are scum and I think our best bet is to lynch one of them. Vote Storr

Did I forget anyone?

[Streaker]

I honestly do not know if Storr is mafia or not? I was told I could visit someone and I did, I was offer a trade for my vote and I accepted, so if I had of visited someone else maybe I would of been offer something else or it might have been completely different,Iwill not know until I visit again.So as of now Storr has my vote and can place it anywhere :

How many times are you going to repeat this? We got it the first time.

IB reads me as scum in a lot of games, but I'm a bit surprised by DD.

I like IB and Mets's long posts on this page leaning town on them for now.

Not sure how I feel about Endgame, Talapus... can't really get a read on them. Neutral.

Leaning town on mtam, seems like typical townie mtam play, but he has fallen off the grid a bit.

Mitch I'm neutral on, not sure how to read him either, but I don't like the push against him.

HotShot I'm leaning town on. Mars I'm leaning town on. Virus is MIA.

Storr and Streaker I believe are scum and I think our best bet is to lynch one of them. Vote Storr

Did I forget anyone?

While I like this type of posts throughout the game, it really says nothing if you don't explain your reads. Storr is working his ass off trying to confirm himself as town early game. I've barely posted anything and only pushed Mitch a bit.

I will Unvote, vote DD. Not OMGUS.
If you read his post I just quoted, the most interesting part is how he calls mitch neutral, and decides he does not like the push against him. Yet he calls Mtam likely town? Doesn't make sense.

[Endgame422]

Before I put effort into a longer post, your vote, IB, is the only vote for Madmitch which wasnt on the sole basis of him being least useful town.

Your mistaken. Despite the fact that you like to give mitch a free pass D1 all the time im personally not thinking his flavor posting(for a boom he did not read) and being evasive are particularly townie this time. Mets mentions a guaranted town lynch vs a possible scum lynch but mitch could definetly be scum.
My point is D1 is a crapshoot. They usually end in a mislynch.
Scum wants to get someone either a. Powerful(cop,vig,doc) or b. Someone who is going to root them out. Guessing a PR off play is hard but knowing who is a good scum Hunter is purely meta. Scum knows who town is and who the dangerous town players are.
If you were scum would you be pushing mitch? I wouldnt be. Its caught me lots of flak(not something scum are interested in)and gains scum very little as mitch is always suspicious and distracting.
If we had to lynch a townie who would it be? Statistically thats what we will probably do with no analysis just pure "reads".
Bottom line its D1, mitch could be scum, none of us can reliably read him and hes being intentionally difficult.
Unless someone shows up as particularly scummy i think mitch is the logical choice.
Also we still have HS to tell us what power you can trade with storr and mitchs flip could shed light our "visit" mechanics.
Fpd by alot of dd and streaker. Reading

[Endgame422]

I do agree storr wants to be "proven" town really badly.
Unless mitch and HS agree that the power they received is 100 percent town i will not be sold on storrs alignment(either way)

[dd515087]

I honestly do not know if Storr is mafia or not? I was told I could visit someone and I did, I was offer a trade for my vote and I accepted, so if I had of visited someone else maybe I would of been offer something else or it might have been completely different,Iwill not know until I visit again.So as of now Storr has my vote and can place it anywhere :

How many times are you going to repeat this? We got it the first time.

IB reads me as scum in a lot of games, but I'm a bit surprised by DD.

I like IB and Mets's long posts on this page leaning town on them for now.

Not sure how I feel about Endgame, Talapus... can't really get a read on them. Neutral.

Leaning town on mtam, seems like typical townie mtam play, but he has fallen off the grid a bit.

Mitch I'm neutral on, not sure how to read him either, but I don't like the push against him.

HotShot I'm leaning town on. Mars I'm leaning town on. Virus is MIA.

Storr and Streaker I believe are scum and I think our best bet is to lynch one of them. Vote Storr

Did I forget anyone?

While I like this type of posts throughout the game, it really says nothing if you don't explain your reads. Storr is working his ass off trying to confirm himself as town early game. I've barely posted anything and only pushed Mitch a bit.

I will Unvote, vote DD. Not OMGUS.
If you read his post I just quoted, the most interesting part is how he calls mitch neutral, and decides he does not like the push against him. Yet he calls Mtam likely town? Doesn't make sense.

Did you read either of my two posts before that one? Clearly not. That last one was just a summary of my feelings seeing as I did not quote by author and instead quoted by time posted. In my above posts I explain why I don't like the push against him, he is neutral because I don't get a town or a scum vibe from him at all, if anything I'm leaning town slightly on him which has nothing to do with my dislike of the push on him

[dd515087]

EBWOP - I want to add something @streaker
"DD doesn't normally scum read me" is ridiculous. No past-game has any effect on another besides maybe making an argument based on meta, and the fact that I don't normally scum read you is not based on meta either, it's a weak excuse to throw an OMGUS-esque vote on me and makes you scummier IMO.

[dd515087]

(Again about Streaker's post) - "Storr is working his ass off to try and confirm himself town early game" .... WTF else would mafia do? Nothing in Streaker's post sits right with me.

I do agree storr wants to be "proven" town really badly.
Unless mitch and HS agree that the power they received is 100 percent town i will not be sold on storrs alignment(either way)

OR in exchange for a mafia (Storr) getting more control over the lynch (anti-town, if he is indeed mafia) the townies (HotShot and Mitch - although not sold on him yet) gain an ability that will help the town in order to make Storr's power a double-sided sword for the mafia/balance the scales for the town.

[Streaker]

EBWOP - I want to add something @streaker
"DD doesn't normally scum read me" is ridiculous. No past-game has any effect on another besides maybe making an argument based on meta, and the fact that I don't normally scum read you is not based on meta either, it's a weak excuse to throw an OMGUS-esque vote on me and makes you scummier IMO.

I didn't say that you 'normally don't scum read me'. If I did, that was not intentional. I did mean that IB usually scum reads me.

I'll put it nice and clear why I voted you:
You dislike the push on wing, yet the main leader on wing case is Mtam, who you town read. See?

[dd515087]

EBWOP - I want to add something @streaker
"DD doesn't normally scum read me" is ridiculous. No past-game has any effect on another besides maybe making an argument based on meta, and the fact that I don't normally scum read you is not based on meta either, it's a weak excuse to throw an OMGUS-esque vote on me and makes you scummier IMO.

I didn't say that you 'normally don't scum read me'. If I did, that was not intentional. I did mean that IB usually scum reads me.

I'll put it nice and clear why I voted you:
You dislike the push on wing, yet the main leader on wing case is Mtam, who you town read. See?

Do you mean madmitch? Mtam is not on madmitch. Also the push on madmitch has nothing to do with my read on him, it effects my reads on who is pushing him.

Also what push on Wing? I have not seen a push on wing anytime recently or a post from mtam recently. If you're referring to the begining BS about Potter: 1) Why? That discussion is over and done IMO. 2) I have said that that discussion was BS and that mtam likes to push at BS to get his reads/ see if someone will scum slip. It's how he plays as town... (which is why I town read him).