ok so I'll have you know this post took a lot of time to write...so much so that I no longer have time to be on CC for the time being so here it goes and as such I'll go ahead and apologize for the length:
Well I want to start out with someone I have noticed being scummy who has gone more or less unnoticed:
First Safariguy:
safariguy5 wrote:unvote vote naxus, he's been rather quiet about all this bandwagonning.
Fairly standard, second to vote Naxus after fircoal.
safariguy5 wrote:Here's the thing I see with naxus's statement which didn't add up. 3 mafia speedlynch would have drawn enormous pressure not only on the hammer but the other two as well. Add to that that there was no roleclaim, so mafia would have had no idea who they were lynching. Could have been a VT for all they knew. So while wagging the finger at joke bw is ok, trying to shoehorn in a convoluted argument makes it look like naxus was trying to appear helpful and townish.
Provides support for the case. Read a bit more into it than I think there really was to be read into at this point. I don't think Naxus was saying he expected three scum to speed hammer just more along the lines of what I was trying to get at that why put someone in position where it could happen? That made perfect sense to me.
safariguy5 wrote:Something just doesn't seem right with naxus, he's usually not this combative. Iliad's case is interesting, but he's not been particularly active either, so I think waiting on pressuring him should be ok.
And Fir seems to have cornered naxus on his statement, I didn't think it was twisting words. Discussion is necessary any day, even Day 1.
Admittedly these comments where I started to doubt naxus as well not so much on the first comment where it was pretty obvious that fir either twisted words or came to a conclusion that wasn't necessarily true (the whole not wanting a discussion based on his actions seemed more a case of frustration about how he was becoming the developing case then against discussion at all) but the next statement was definitely scummy sounding relating to how he stated opinion about day 1 discussion. Considering what's happened since though I'm starting to see your comment about fircoal not twisting words to be the start of a what has developed into a defense for him of sorts.
safariguy5 wrote:naxus wrote:Now don't twist my words fir. Discussion is great but day one discussion is usually useless cause it ends up a blind lynch anyway.
That to me sounded unusual for naxus, I don't remember him being this strong on language. Aggressive sounding post to me. I'm still with fircoal on this one, if nothing else, the naxus wagon has begun delineating some of the different sides that people are on. However, naxus seems really uncomfortable in this position, something that townies usually don't react to quite as defensively.
I'll admit to a point here about him reacting defensively...I do however think you exaggerated a bit on the "delineating some of the different sides" at this point as the only one who really offered up any kind of defense for Naxus was Vio and you just seem to be taking Iliad's cue on that one after initially stating that vio presented a decent case about him (or at least enough you felt it could deserve to be pressured in the future). Most of the other actives at this point were either siding with fircoal against Naxus.
safariguy5 wrote:Well, the idea of keeping your vote on the claimed doc if you were mafia would be a WIFOM argument, but your post definitely highlights the lack of activity by some people in the thread. Submarining and noobiness aside, I might note that scum roles can be given to anyone, including noobs. So using noobiness as an excuse to give the player a pass is not a really valid strategy fir, random.org isn't going to make considerations like that. That said, I thought that naxus played terribly especially if he was the doctor, and I can understand why chu would be frustrated/suspicous of naxus for drawing so much attention to himself. However, instead of going after nag for taking exception, I think that strike and nark hopping on the wagon are much more scummy for rather weak reasons.
Anarkistsdream wrote:Yep... I know I'm not Simon Tam and he is a pretty for sure character to be in the game.
Unvote
Vote: Fircoal
Way to not really give a reason and blatantly hop on the wagon there.
unvote vote nark/b]
Also, [b]FOS strike wolf for offering slightly more reason but still basically repeating what nag said.
This post stuck out to me. Other than deciding to take Fircoal's side in the argument (more evidence of a defense for fircoal) here it appears you either skimmed over or decided to ignore the fact I questioned fircoal over that post before nag made his statements about Fircoal. I kind of agree about Naxus drawing too much attention to himself but I think you, fircoal and commander need to take some credit for that as the initial post naxus made that you drew attention to was blown out of proportion and really if you are going to say I went after fircoal for weak reasons than you should admit that your initial vote on naxus was based off weak reasons. I'd also disagree on this as I think the fircoal wagon was built on a stronger starting point than the naxus wagon.
safariguy5 wrote:This little Iliad/Vio tiff is interesting and we can definitely revisit it later, but I'm having a hard time buying this nag/fircoal stuff. We know chu likes to take little experiments and see who bites. By his behavior, I could possibly see it as a gamble to draw out scum, and as I have indicated, we had at least 1 bandwagonner to nag's original suspicion of chu. I don't fault nag for being suspicious of chu, but the clearest choice right now would be to go for the people who were caught by the apparent shift in bandwagon pressure.
I wanted to show this one partly as more evidence about Safari lending support to fircoal and partly to show agreement about the bandwagonner thing that I will get to when making the case on a couple other people here. I feel stating you believe it is an experiment is a bit convenient in a way. I don't see the experiment here and fircoal defense has mentioned a bit about experimentation but not in the way you are trying to construe it. You seem to be trying to get people off of fircoal's back here as well and shift attention to those on the bandwagon. I really appreciate how you lend no voice as far as stating the actual reasonings of the people going after fircoal are flawed but instead state they've been caught in an experiment of some kind to draw out scum.
safariguy5 wrote:Commander9 wrote:safariguy5 wrote:This little Iliad/Vio tiff is interesting and we can definitely revisit it later, but I'm having a hard time buying this nag/fircoal stuff. We know chu likes to take little experiments and see who bites. By his behavior, I could possibly see it as a gamble to draw out scum, and as I have indicated, we had at least 1 bandwagonner to nag's original suspicion of chu. I don't fault nag for being suspicious of chu, but the clearest choice right now would be to go for the people who were caught by the apparent shift in bandwagon pressure.
I agree that Illy/Vio stuff is not something too important right now, but I'm not sure I agree that you so easily disregard Chu's behaviour. Initially, I had no problems with it, but his recent defence is extremely weak and he's sticking with it and trying to emphasize his activity and how he's contributing to the town with it - which seems extremely scummy to me.
Although it is a valid point about nag nearly hammering naxus save for a somewhat fortunate invalid vote. I think that while the part in fircoal's argument about activity to be absolutely worthless, I feel like it's more a shouting match between nag and fircoal more than it is solid evidence.
Vote pattern wise, I think nag might have tried to stealth hammer and missed the opportunity. I'll take up this nark case later then as I think the wagon hopping was a weak evidence base to begin with by nag initially that was strengthened later by fircoal's actions. So I will
unvote for now while I wait for some explanation for that almost hammer.
here you obviously didn't fully fact check. You either misremembered or went back and skimmed over the fact it wasn't nag who almost hammered but soundman.
safariguy5 wrote:Man I feel like this game is getting nowhere. I personally would like to see a deadline. It's interesting looking at shaggy's posts, on the one hand, it seems like he's trying to helpful and townish, but on the other hand, you don't see him really putting much conviction into his arguments. And it seems like he's being opportunistic with the fircoal case, trying to mask his voting pattern in popular sentiment. Looks like scum trying to hide as useful townie to me.
vote Shaggy
Asking for a deadline when to be honest I think the activity and discussion has been fairly good with a few ebbs mixed in. I do have to agree with most of the rest of the post shaggy is acting increasingly scummy.
So I do feel safari is relevant in terms of the case on fircoal.
Next case to I want to look at is Nark:
Anarkistsdream wrote:Naxus and Iliad are by far the best two targets.
Sheep is just a psycho.
Unfortunately, I just don't know which one of the two is a better target. I really liked Commander's points in the last few pages, but Violet makes a good point now.
I can't remember who I voted last, and there has been no recent vote count.
Unvote
Vote: Naxus
Anarkistsdream wrote:Yep... I know I'm not Simon Tam and he is a pretty for sure character to be in the game.
Unvote
Vote: Fircoal
woohoo wagon hopping. As you are an experienced player I would probably lend more credence to this argument if I hadn't seen evidence of some redeeming town qualities from other posts.
Anarkistsdream wrote:Yep,Soundman...
And Violet, that's actually a good case against Iliad.
I mostly posted this to echo commander's question about what nark meant here...I don't see the case from this perspective.
The next people I want to talk about are vio and iliad:
So vio as we know with a couple of exceptions where she went off to question streaker about his role in the vio wagon has been pretty much dead focused on iliad and provided reasoning that wasn't horrible early on but has devolved into a series of baseless remarks (either for inaccuracy based on what's actually happened or accusations that really have nothing to do with the game itself even). though I think it is interesting that iliad has spent most of his time in this thread barely addressing the naxus case and mostly questioning vio.
moving on to soundman:
we all know what he did I don't see any reason to quote it. A possible newbie mistake but definitely one that stuck out in context of the game. Almost hammered Naxus though most probably would have been an accident as no one seemed to be fully aware of the vote count but either way provided very little reasoning onto what was seen as the L-1 vote. This particularly stood out in context that he hadn't made any comment in the game since the joke voting stage and has since commented little since though much more than before he had been called out.
Next Shaggydan:
So again not much I can disagree with his early posts to the point I am not even going to bother quoting them as they mostly deal with brief statements about what's going on in the game, excusing his busy schedule and admitting to skimming without bring much new to the table.
ShaggyDan wrote:Vote Streaker for being 5th on the wagon... and because he expects it.
I agree 100% with Fircoal's post against random voting. On top of all the reasons he said (information, patterns, etc.) at the very least you can vote off who is doing the least scum-hunting, adding confusion or generally just giving a scummy vibe. Information helps town, silence helps scum.
I've only skimmed recently, been busy with RL (and 12-gauge mafia when I'm on here). Will re-read and hopefully have some firmer thoughts on people soon. Sorry guys.
I’ll admit I am nitpicking a bit here but honestly I thought the streaker comment about awaiting his bandwagon was a pretty clear joke.
ShaggyDan wrote:So while we're waiting on a Naxus claim I'm going to throw in my 2-cents about Soundman.
So there's two possibilities, either Soundman is truly in-experienced, didn't know the proper vote count, and didn't know the danger of putting someone at L-1. Or he knew the correct vote count and jumped on Nag's miss-count to try for a quick lynch that he could explain later ("I didn't think it would lynch him, just put him at L-1").
If it's the latter it's a very obvious scum-tell, if it's the former I don't think it would hurt to put some pressure on him to see how he responds.
In any case Unvote and Vote Soundman, I believe it's the next best lead if the Naxus wagon falls down to a believed claim.
Ok so he has done this a few times now presenting multiple options of what could be happening. I can't actually say it is a horrible thing and admittedly this is a bit of a metagame speculation argument but I mostly see scum talk in this sort of fashion as it tends to leave the door open for an excuse if the wagon falls through or someone calls him out on it. States this as it looks like the soundman wagon may pick up steam.
ShaggyDan wrote:Commander9 wrote:All included, I think Fir could actually be a lyncher and Jayne could fit that role perfectly (He absolutely hates Simon).
You'd imagine Jayne would be vig, or maybe PGO. Besides, they worked out their differences well enough by the end of the series, I'm not ruling it out, but I don't think it fits with the flavour too well. Maybe a lyncher as the blue hands going after Simon and/or River?
@Fircoal: I wasn't trying to distract from the case at all, I was throwing a vote on the next best lead because I wasn't on the Naxus wagon, and I wasn't sure how long it would be before I could post again / it would take to claim and move on.
With such a strong claim there's no reason to pursue Naxus. Regardless of how scummy he played before I doubt we'll see a counterclaim. I'm willing to believe the claim.
ShaggyDan wrote:Wow, I got some reading to do.
Unvote soundman, I made it as I thought it would be the next best case after Naxus.
Don't want to make to much of a post off just skimming, but some random thoughts of mine:
- I believe Naxus' claim of doctor is real, and he's reasoning of acting scummy valid.
- Off first skim I don't think Fir is very scummy. I can see his reasoning for continual pressure on confirmed doc, seems to be actively scum-hunting.
- Jerado looks pretty sucumarining atm. Hasn't posted much except for joining a wagon.
As much as I love big walls of text, I don't really have time atm to go over it properly and come up with much substance. Will try and get through it by tomorrow. Any chance of getting a votecount / deadline?
admitted skimming...I am actually going to play a bit of a helper role to that...Shaggy you seem to be at least somewhat aware that skimming can be seen as a scumtell and I have to advise you if you are actually town don't do it. Admitting that it's skimming isn't any better than just skimming. I would also say that while you are not the most active poster you have posted enough that I do not feel time issues to be a valid excuse to admittedly skimming. Moving on...
I feel these last two posts kind of contradicted themselves. you state that you believe there is no reason for continual pressure on the doc but also say you believe there is merit in pursuing the pressure on naxus like fircoal is doing. Asks for a deadline...
ShaggyDan wrote:Streaker wrote:So, we have Shaggy saying Naxus had good reasons to act scummy. Not quite how I would call what Naxus was doing... He also brings in a lead to an inactive. Hoping to draw away pressure that mostly Fir is giving? It's an easy solution to an active Day 1, if you are mafia.
Also, why would you ever wanna call a deadline when you aren't even caught up reading? Again, Shaggy's behaviour seems to point at wanting to end the day ASAP. And again, that's only what scum would do.
I meant good reasoning in acting defensively (everyone targeting him), I've done it before as well (and it makes sense seeing as he is an un-CC'd Doc). I wasn't meaning to bring a lead into pressuring the inactive, more just a note incase others had missed it.
To clarify: I wasn't asking for a deadline to be put in place, I was just asking for a vote count/deadline in case I had missed one that we already had.
And what indication have I given to wanting to end the day ASAP. If you think I was trying to bring pressure to an inactive wouldn't that mean I want the day drawn out? Then you go and say I want the opposite? If I wanted to end the day I'd jump on a bandwagon and start pushing as fast as I can.
Funnily enough you do jump on the bandwagon at the end of the post and any time a deadline is asked for in any context it can be seen as wanting an end of the day so you can't really say you didn't mention anything that can be construed as advocating an end to the day. Possibly a miscommunication but it shows that you are indeed skimming and I do not find the fact you've admitted it to be much of an excuse. I believe what streaker is trying to say about voting an inactive is it is an easy lynch for scum if they want to pursue a lynch based on one that will not result in much in-depth discussion where scum could potentially slip up.
Fircoal wrote:Yes experienced active players aren't easy lynches, but that's why it's such a good idea for scum to lynch me now, because even I will admit I'm playing like shit. While I don't think what I did was that scummy, obviously the town does, and it's not like it's very hard right now to finger me as scum. Thusly it's a prime time to get rid of me. And I don't think it's WIFOMy in the scene of in the case of a good player playing badly and a bad player playing badly who would you wanna try to lynch. The better player of course. I have basically been WIFOMing up this whole thing, but meh, that's kinda just how I see this at the moment. I still think it'd be suicide for a scum to do what I did. And stupid no matter what side you're on unless you aren't on a side, but I don't always have my mind in the most rational of places.
@Underlined section: If you think it would be suicide for scum to do what you did, then surely this sounds like you're advocating your own lynch being that we have no idea if you're scum or not? At the end of that quote you basically called yourself stupid or third party. I think that's enough to put a little D1 pressure on you, despite my initial feelings from skimming.
Vote Fircoal. So how do you explain your own post? Are you stupid or thirdparty?
As for Violet and Illiad, I find it interesting how it is progressing, but I'd rather stay focused on one case at a time.
Also for the record, sorry for the lack of posts, I've been really busy. I'll try and be more active but I can't really promise anything
. At the very least I'll be on here every 2 days or so.
Aside from reversing direction on the fircoal wagon. This looks a lot like a wagon hop and it is based off pretty flimsy reasoning compared to what has been provided for analysis.
All in all I consider you the second best lead after fircoal.
So now finally I'll get to fircoal:
Fircoal wrote:naxus wrote:sheepofdumb wrote:Fircoal wrote:
To shamelessly bandwagon?
Vote Strike
Unvote vote sheep, that vote is a little unjokey for me
That vote was a complete joke.
Unvote Vote Naxus
HEY GUYS I FOUND OUR DAY 1 LYNCH!
At this point I really thought this was another joke vote...I really didn't see what fircoal got from this one post from naxus and I still don't get what people really saw so scummy about this first post from naxus.
Fircoal wrote:Anarkistsdream wrote:Unvote
Vote: Fircoal...
Joke vote stage needs to end, and you and Sheep are the two acting most insane.
You say that as if it's something new.
Regardless I am with you on the fact that the joke vote stage needs to end. That's why I voted Naxus. Scummiest thing so farzel.
but here he states it's not a joke vote. so again I didn't really get the reasons for voting him at this point. The next few posts deal mostly with explaining sheep's behavior both in and out of this game and I don't really find much reason to point them out as I feel they have little to do with anything.
Fircoal wrote:Iliad wrote:Fircoal wrote:Iliad wrote:I meant the joke vote stage continued, as it was fun.
Isn't it in our best interest to have the most talk time possible, not the most joke time possible?
It is, but that doesn't mean the joke stage wasn't fun, or that I can't point out that it was fun. I wasn't suggesting we stay in the joke vote stage, or it's preferable to normal mafia just talking about how it ended and that it's generally fun because of the overall silliness. You of all people, should agree.
Not exactly sure why you're sticking to this so much.
I do agreezel x3 Upon review I do think that Safari is right that it's a miscommunication. It just seemed a bit odd to me. The only reason why I'm sticking with it is because since it's early Day 1, any thing that sticks out in any way can be followed as a lead.
I think this is more important in regards to later posts as he all but ignores anything scummy regarding soundman's post yet states here that it's day 1 and anything can be followed as a lead.
Fircoal wrote:naxus wrote:Sigh, was just saying that ive seen it happen before. Didn't mean for a whole discussion to be based off of it
So you're saying discussion is a bad thing? Cause it sounds like you're upset about it.
I kind of have to think especially in hindsight this post did twist around what naxus had said at the time. It at least seemed to me that Naxus was more bemoaning that he was the center of attention in this post than it did trashing all discussion. I really feel fircoal blew it out of proportion in that context.
The next few posts involved a bad defense from Naxus and better accusations from fircoal. More or less what can be taken from this is that while having already taken the spot of general on this bandwagon he cements it in this next section.
Fircoal wrote:naxus wrote:Streaker wrote:Also, this post has a few things about it:
naxus wrote:Ok my vote on sheep was not me trying to get him lynched, I just threw a vote out there because he was a tad scummy. I havn't built a case against someone who has only really jokevoted and hasn't posted since saturday
Thats what i'm saying.
First, naxus says his vote on sheep was not with the intent to lynch. Next, he says he thinks sheep acted scummy. Anyone else see the contradiction?
What you ARE saying, is that you don't seem to like discussion right now. Where will we get the extract infos from then?
Intent to lynch is building a case on someone with grounded suspicions and trying to get more people on the wagon behind you. Throwing a vote at someone because of one thing they did seemed scummy is different. That and this is I think my first game with sheep(and maybe his first game? Havn't seen him around)
Wait a minute so you vote someone for putting someone at L-3 when you THINK THEY'RE NEW!?!?!? Honestly this makes no sense at all. I mean it was obvious it was a joke vote but if you thought they were new wouldn't you know it was just a newbie being a newbie.
Also I find Naxus's claim interesting. I'll wait for a counterclaim. However I will not unvote. Naxus has managed to be way too scummy in such a short time.
I wouldn't say this made no sense. it's weak reasoning it contributed to why people felt Naxus was scummy but if there's a scum out there that's going to put someone at L-3 for joke votes it is going to be a newbie scum most of the time. So excusing it as a "newbie being a newbie" is quick to dismiss it in my opinion.
Fircoal wrote:Also FOS: Shaggy, Jeraado, And somewhat Naggy
Soundman is a noob and does noobish things because he's a noob. There is no reason to look at his noobyness and think it means he's scum. He's a noob probably didn't know better. Trying to corner a noob is a bad thing though it's even worse that you're distracting from the suspicion on Naxus. Seems scummeh to meeeeeeeeeeeeeee~
This is still one of the posts that really strikes me from a scummy perspective...first of all, it appears as a guised attempt to dissuade people from discussing anything other than the main bandwagon. I would also like to note that the case would really only work if Naxus was scum so fircoal here is still pushing for a lynch on what is a very likely town role not to mention a claimed doctor.
Fircoal wrote:strike wolf wrote:The claim is real. Or at least there's about a 90% chance it is real. So fir we someone has a case that doesn't fall in line with the main bandwagon makes them scummy? I will agree that soundman is new part but the second part did not make sense to me.
I think it's more like Naxus is extremely scummy, and it's at the critical point of the case. Ignoring his scumminess just seems scummeh to me. I can't explain it that well. All I know is I'm acting like Mandy. ;3
Like I said this would only really make sense from a perspective that Naxus would have to be scum, which even at this point should have looked unlikely. So really I found this whole argument baseless and weak.
Fircoal wrote:strike wolf wrote:Yeah I'm really not trusting Fircoal right now. You can guise it acting like mandy and all but basically all you are doing is trying to shut down other cases. Not to mention his claim is one of the most solid claims that you would find in this game. vote fircoal
Let me ask you this. 1) How am I acting differently than Mandy? and 2) If I were Mandy would I be voted for this?
I do believe the answer to #2 is obvious.
So basically fircoal decided to hide behind an acting like mandy defense which makes no sense to me. I will humor you an answer the questions to the best of my ability.
1. Mandy has never quite acted like this in any game I have played with him...he acted somewhat similarly in the Buffy mafia when there seemed to be some doubt about the alliance of Nark's claimed role but that isn't a factor with Simon. His alignment is pretty straight forward.
2. In the example mentioned about the Buffy mafia, Mandy actually almost was lynched for it.
Also I'm not trying to shut down other cases. If Soundman weren't a noob I think that would be a nice case to go on right now. In fact I may do a bit of investigations on some other players behavior. It's not as much that I find other arguments bad as much as I find a) the idea that ANYONE can think that Naxus wasn't being scummy and doesn't deserve the full attention of the lynch, and b) The fact that it was distracting from the Naxus claiming and such. This case being brought up NOW or BEFORE that wouldn't be as scummy. But the timing was just all wrong. In fact if they want to bring it up now then why not do it. I mean the case on me while being utterly wrong, isn't scummy in itself. (Except for Naggy, I need to check dat outs)
I think that is narrow minded. you a. excuse soundman as just being a newbie too quickly and b. It happened when it happened. No one recycled an old case right before Naxus was supposed to claim and it was a scummy move that it in itself deserved some attention. So I'm honestly not holding that particularly against anyone at this point.
Fircoal wrote:nagerous wrote:I have no idea why you are militantly pursing this lynch Fircoal.. you're acting extremely scummy to me right now. Naxus's claim seems pretty damn solid to me so it looks like we need to pursue other leads. Any elite bodyguards out there, protect nax tonight.
Because I founded the case and I find it extremely valid. I do agree that we do need to pursue other leads but I'm not giving up the idea that Naxus played really scummy. (See now I'm being like pmchung
)
you actually have done something at this point to help shut down a lead by declaring everyone who was voting on it scummy. It's one thing to defend the person it's a bit different when you try to paint everyone on it as scummy. This whole acting like other players as an excuse also sounds off to me...I can see it as an experimental disguise but I don't see how it adds any value to the process of a townie and it seems to me to just be an off balance defense for yourself.
Fircoal wrote:Posts Since Game Start:
Anarkistsdream – 8
Campin Killer – 1
Commander9 – 9
Edocsil – 5
Fircoal – 21
Iliad – 7
Jeraado – 1
Mandalorian2298 – 3
Nagerous – 9
Naxus – 12
Safari – 7
Shaggydan – 5
Sheepofdumb – 10
Soundman – 5
Streaker – 8
Strike Wolf – 19
Violet – 3
I see I’ve posted more than double of everyone but Strike and Naxus, more than quadruple the amount of Shaggy, and Sound, sextuple the amount of Violet and Mandy, and twentyoneruple the amount of Jeraado and Campin.
I find it funny you make this such a large portion of your post. You've tried to really sell the activity card a lot from this point on and while you have presented some wifom arguments in defense of it, the whole idea of you using it actually tends to point that you don't have any legitimate argument to defend your own behavior.
Campin_Killer wrote:1.2. Jeraado
2.13. VioIet
3.12. Iliad
4.8. Fircoal
5.4. Safariguy5
6.5. Naxus
7.6. Sheepofdumb
8.3. Streaker
9.7. Anarkistsdream
10.1. Mandalorian
11.10. ShaggyDan
12.15. Campin Killer
13.9. Commaner9
14.11. Soundman
15.16. Strike Wolf
16.14. Nagerous
vote Jeraado for being first
April 21st - This is Campin's last post in this thread. Can we get a replacement in here?
jeraado wrote:Since I'm not currently on the naxus wagon (although I do believe he should now claim), mine will be a vote
vote soundman
We can let some mistakes slide for newbies but that was a big one
Hey guys I don’t know if anyone noticed but this is his FIRST post of the actual game. And right off he goes on some silleh case that is more a case of n00byness than anything else. I have a feeling he only came out to vote because this case would be a nice easy one to make. Not much work involved in it, and probably wouldn’t gather that much attention or offense at it. Nice scummarining sir. I guess the next time we’ll see you is next Friday?
I can agree with a lot of this but Soundman basically did the same thing with the naxus case and you barely paid it attention.
A Synopsis of Mandy in This Game:
mandalorian2298 wrote:Vote Fircoal for being Fircoal.
Sorry for the inactivity guys, but I feel kind of sluggish lately.
mandalorian2298 wrote:Streaker wrote:Right.
Vote naxusAnd now I silently wait for the wagon on me, because I am the 5th on the wagon...
unvote vote Streaker for blatant WIFOMing.
As for my favorite quote:
Sir Warrick: You have to finish it, lad. [Mal doesn't move] You have to finish it. For a man to lay beaten, yet breathing? It makes him a coward.
Inara: It's humiliation.
Mal: It would be humiliating, having to lie there while the better man refuses to spill your blood. Mercy is the mark of a great man.
[He lightly stabs Atherton.]
Mal: Guess I'm just a good man.
[He repeats the poking.]
Mal: Well, I'm all right.
mandalorian2298 wrote:Sooo, do we lynch Streaker now?
These posts are: 50% Quote, 17% Tradition, and 33% Tunnel Vision. While there is quite a case on Streaker, I don’t think Mandy is the one who really brought it up, nor is he paying attention to any other argument on the field. He’s just scumarinning and tunnel visioning. But of course this doesn’t get any attention because it’s Mandy right? Of course.
I actually liked your case on mandy even if it's a tad weak and he has been inactive in most of his games.
nagerous wrote:Unvote vote naxus
I see no reason not to pressure him further and build upon this wagon. His defences to his actions have been weak at best, his argument that he was trying to prevent a completely random day 1 lynch doesn't really wash with me.
I believe that puts him L-2, this may sound scummy but in the spirit of moving the game forward, naxus I'd think about claiming at some point if you want to survive.
Hey Naggy I’m not sure how the idea of someone claiming would seem scummy but I must say adding in “This may sound scummy” sure does. Seriously what’s the need for those words unless you’re trying to excuse what you’re trying to do?
nagerous wrote:Wow.... close call there.
HFOS Soundman
Again he’s a noob. And btw nice HFOS, shows you think he’s scummy but you’re not man enough to actually put a vote on him. Don’t want it to be in the records? ;3
And you continue to apply the newbie defense for him.
nagerous wrote:In fact I'm going to go ahead and vote fircoal. His logic is making no sense right now, I have no idea what he is trying to get at.
Look’s like someone’s trying to start a bandwagon. And what do you know there isn’t much logic behind it. Maybe you should SHOW what logic doesn’t make sense instead of saying my logic. That’s incredibly vague and leads a lot up to interpretation. It seems like you’re trying to get something started without 1) Putting in any work or 2) Putting your neck on the line. Also just wondering but since when is logic not making sense a scum tell? I mean I could name quite a few players who don’t make logically sense almost every game but they aren’t being lynched almost every game.
you do act random and insane occasionally but I wouldn't call you one of the people who don't make sense. Usually when you put effort into your posts like in POTC and other games you make a lot of sense, so I really don't know why you're trying to use that as part of your defense. Again just because it applies to other people doesn't mean it applies to your case.
Thank you for linking me to a wiki article that has to do with a different mafia site that plays DIFFERENT MAFIA. I don’t know if you’ve played on Epic Mafia before (I do believe you have because apparently on my list of Alts I have an IheartNagerous account) but it’s a totally different style of game. It’s fast paced as quite a bit of games with open setups and has stuff like whispers, which were mentioned often in the articles. Also due to its rt like nature, the games are usually smaller. You can’t just say that all of this necessarily applies to our way of gameage. Also you can’t confirm that the author knows what he’s doing. For all we know he could be the NES of EpicMafia.
I think you have played enough to know that claiming the non-counter-claimed docs in CC mafia is very rarely a good idea so I don't think you stating that it's a different mafia and "he could be the NES of EpicMafia" qualifies as valid defense in this scenario.
Now that you tired to get me with other people’s work why nawt try some of your own? ;3
ShaggyDan wrote:Vote Streaker for being 5th on the wagon... and because he expects it.
I agree 100% with Fircoal's post against random voting. On top of all the reasons he said (information, patterns, etc.) at the very least you can vote off who is doing the least scum-hunting, adding confusion or generally just giving a scummy vibe. Information helps town, silence helps scum.
I've only skimmed recently, been busy with RL (and 12-gauge mafia when I'm on here). Will re-read and hopefully have some firmer thoughts on people soon. Sorry guys.
Funny how you say that silence helps the scum considering you’ve only posted 5 times today including a joke vote post and a V/LA post. And the rest of the posts have been like this. Skimming right the top of the action and just going with easy statements. Way to be out there.
ShaggyDan wrote:So while we're waiting on a Naxus claim I'm going to throw in my 2-cents about Soundman.
So there's two possibilities, either Soundman is truly in-experienced, didn't know the proper vote count, and didn't know the danger of putting someone at L-1. Or he knew the correct vote count and jumped on Nag's miss-count to try for a quick lynch that he could explain later ("I didn't think it would lynch him, just put him at L-1").
If it's the latter it's a very obvious scum-tell, if it's the former I don't think it would hurt to put some pressure on him to see how he responds.
In any case Unvote and Vote Soundman, I believe it's the next best lead if the Naxus wagon falls down to a believed claim.
Here’s more of a case of trying to say something but not saying much. It’s not like what Soundman did and bringing up is controversial or that much work. In fact a guy just above you posted about the scumminess of this. How hard of a case. Btw I like how you bring up the two possibilities each time. It makes a nice easy back out plan if it flops. “Well I just got the possibility wrong!” Yeah… Right.
soundman wrote:OK I've made up my mind Vote Naxus
Hey newb, you know that this was just your 3rd post of the game, and the first that wasn’t a joke vote. This is called blatant bandwagoning. DON’T DO ET!!
(I like how newer players at the main one to jump on this too x3)
VioIet wrote:Iliad wrote:It does look like Naxus tried to prove his town status and jumped at the opportunity.
Regardless strike wasn't in any danger, and neither did sheeps vote put him in any. It would've been nice if the joke votes continued, but I guess we're through on the other side now.
For someone who says that the joke vote stage was so much fun, you surely weren't an active participant in it. I just re-read the whole thread, and I didn't see any joke votes that popped out at me- that were composed by you. And I didn't even think the joke vote stage in this game was funny. I think you are normally a very articulate player. If you truly meant that you were just going to miss the joke vote phase, because you thought it was so hilarious- i think you would have phrased the wording in your post better. Fir called you out on it first, and saf said it was miscommunication- but i don't think so.
And FOS Sheep, because I think he probably lost count and thought that he hammered.
And yes i realize it sounds like I'm rambling a bit- but its late at night, and I'm operating on about 5 hours sleep. So my apologies if I'm incoherent. Hopefully you get the gist of what I'm trying to say.
And before I forgot.
UnvoteVote Illiadstrike wolf wrote:Fos soundman. I don't think his vote counted as I don't think he ever unvoted but he basically disappeared for quite a few days and then puts (or tries) naxus at L-1 without any comment on the case. Extremely scummy.
I flip…
strike wolf wrote:Soundman's vote while scummy since he is to my knowledge a new player I don't think it was more condemning than Naxus' actions so far. It would make a decent back up case if Naxus flips town but for now i say stay the course.
….and I flop.
strike wolf wrote:Yeah I'm really not trusting Fircoal right now. You can guise it acting like mandy and all but basically all you are doing is trying to shut down other cases. Not to mention his claim is one of the most solid claims that you would find in this game. vote fircoal
And then go somewhere else entirely.
you basically accused me of flip-flopping on the soundman case which wasn't at all true. Explain to me why you think it is flip-flopping and I will show you that it is wrong. As far as the third post, I feel I had pretty valid reasons to pressure you. You've acted scummy and your overall behavior has not seemed very townie to me. You are active but the logic behind your actions have oftened been flawed or exaggerated.
Just a question to everyone, but if I was scum then why would I have left my vote on a doctor after he claimed? Wouldn’t that bring unnecessary attention to myself? (Which is what scum want to avoid like the plaque) I don’t see any good reason why a scum would want to argue a dead case. If you can think of a reason please state it, if you can’t please unvote mes.
wifom but if we are playing that game than why not state an opposite scenario. If you are town what reasons did you have for sticking to an non-counterclaimed doctor for so long when it would have no positive outcome for town. Certainly that would put not only you but another very important townie in harms way that could likely end in both of your deaths which is not good for town.
In Summary:
Prod/Replace Campin
FOS: Naxus, Jeraado, Shaggy, Streaker, Strike, Iliad, Mandy, Sound (In order of scumminess)
Vote: Nagerous
you tried hard to disguise it but the vote on Nagerous is pretty much an OMGus vote.
Fircoal wrote:safariguy5 wrote:Well, the idea of keeping your vote on the claimed doc if you were mafia would be a WIFOM argument
Why yes. Yes it is.
safariguy5 wrote:So using noobiness as an excuse to give the player a pass is not a really valid strategy fir, random.org isn't going to make considerations like that.
Safari it's more like this, noobs make lots of errors so people shouldn't be jumping all up at noobs if they're acting scummy because it's likely cause they're noobs. I did in the end had a bit of an fos to soundman mainly due to his posting habits, and the fact that his bandwagon vote way basically the first important thing he did in the thread.
Like I've already said you've spent a lot of time trying to excuse his behavior as simply the act of a newbie...so this was not really a surprise just more evidence of that fact.
Fircoal wrote:Top 3 Reasons Naggy Wants Me Dead
1. I'm one of the most experienced players. The experienced players are usually going to be the ones leading the discussion and coming up with most of the leads. If you're the only experienced play left you're going to have a nice advantage over the town. Considering I'm one of these players, and so is Naggy, he realizes that once he's gone with me it'll be easier for him to twist the town into doing what he wants to.
I've said this before but this does not fit with what I know about Nag as scum. Usually from what I have seen he is fairly comfortable following the newbie lynch day one and doesn't go out of his way to try to lynch the experienced player or at least be the one to actually start the wagon on someone who is experienced.
2. It's easy. With my push on Naxus it's easy to go. "HE WAS PUSHING ON THE DOCTOR HE MUST BE SCUM!!!!" Of course when you look at this argument it really doesn't make much sense. Sure it might be a pile of WIFOM but do you really think any scum would be risking all these votes just to do some WIFOM. Yes that's even more WIFOM. WIFOM aside I can't see what good reason one would have for doing that if they were scum, since you all think that I'm scum that that's why you please tell me these good reasons. (Wanting to lynch the doctor is not a valid case as the pressure was already going away from him. By the time I posted that lynch was 99% not going to happen without a counterclaim)
I don't think I would call it easy. You've been fairly careful despite being called out and really you as an active player have tried very hard to shake the suspicion. I don't think this much discussion even if it succeeds counts as an easy lynch as there would be plenty to look back at nag for.
3.I'm Town. Yes any time that a scum can off a town it's a good thing. No loses for the scum and they get off pressure free.
This would be blatantly obvious if Nag was scum...that's an assumption that I do not think is true at this point in the game. At the very least I do not see the case on Nag in this game.
Fircoal wrote:Fircoal wrote:Top 3 Reasons Naggy Wants Me Dead
1. I'm one of the most experienced players. The experienced players are usually going to be the ones leading the discussion and coming up with most of the leads. If you're the only experienced play left you're going to have a nice advantage over the town. Considering I'm one of these players, and so is Naggy, he realizes that once he's gone with me it'll be easier for him to twist the town into doing what he wants to.
2. It's easy. With my push on Naxus it's easy to go. "HE WAS PUSHING ON THE DOCTOR HE MUST BE SCUM!!!!" Of course when you look at this argument it really doesn't make much sense. Sure it might be a pile of WIFOM but do you really think any scum would be risking all these votes just to do some WIFOM. Yes that's even more WIFOM. WIFOM aside I can't see what good reason one would have for doing that if they were scum, since you all think that I'm scum that that's why you please tell me these good reasons. (Wanting to lynch the doctor is not a valid case as the pressure was already going away from him. By the time I posted that lynch was 99% not going to happen without a counterclaim)
3.I'm Town. Yes any time that a scum can off a town it's a good thing. No loses for the scum and they get off pressure free.
Oh and I'm active. I forgot about that one!
(Look at post number chart in my big post)
Another reference to how active you are which as I have said is as much an excuse where you can not defend your actual actions as you feel you think you can make a case on Nag and say "hey guys I am active. please don't kill mezel".
Fircoal wrote:nagerous wrote:Fircoal wrote:nagerous wrote:It is though
unless you count the reason why I didn't vote soundman and instead HFOSed him, at that point the pressure was on naxus so I wasn't going to sidetrack with another bandwagon when naxus was being pressured. There is no case on me, you're just responding to aggression with aggression, all in all you're playing extremely badly in this game whether town or scum but with the amount of scumtells you've dropped my vote remains firmly fixed on you.
What scumtells? Trying to find who the scum are? Pursuing scummy statements? Voting scum? Nice scumtells there.
So far I haven't seen where you've voted scum? All I've seen is you pursuing a doctor claim militantly and when I call you up on this your only response is some bullshit retalitory case against me with no grounds whatsoever.
It has more grounds than your case does. I haven't pursued him militantly, I just wouldn't drop the idea that he's scummeh. I'm not trying to convince anyone else. I just was not convinced myself. However since there's no counterclaim I'm getting this sad feeling that he's actually the doctor. >w>
But you did pursue him fairly militantly. Coming up to the claim you can not say that anyone pushed harder for that case than you and you were the only one who pursued any kind of action after he claimed. So what you say is not really true from a game perspective.
Fircoal wrote:Anarkistsdream wrote:Fircoal, unless you want to say you are the doctor and not him, you need to drop this. Otherwise, your lynch is imminent.
I didn't bring that up to say that Naxus was scum. I think I messed up in writing it so it came off that way. I was trying to explain why I kept on voting him. Which is not as much because I wanted him lynched as much as I wanted him to be scum. I put in too much emotional investment.
strike wolf wrote:Fircoal wrote:strike wolf wrote:Fircoal wrote:Oh and I'm active. I forgot about that one!
(Look at post number chart in my big post)
Your activity defense is blatant bs. You mention activity like it is the god given irrefutable evidence of towniness and in the POTC game when you were town you excused inactivity/lurking as not being necessarily a scum tactic. Either way you are trying pretty hard to push your "activity" as a solid defense when it is not there. As far as your reasons you listed for why nag wants you dead. This is more you painting nag as scum in my eyes than legitimately defending yourself from accusations.
I'm not saying that activity = townieness, but active players are good for the survival of the game. Thusly it's a nice thing for the scum if they can kill off the active players that aren't scum, leaving only active scum to direct the lynch.
Which would more or less give a basic somewhat satisfactory reason for why you would mention your activity in that post but has nothing to do with why you made it such a key part in your big analysis post.
.
It wasn't a key part, it was just another note. Part of the reason I did bring it up though because for a Day 1 lynch in which we have the least of info to go on, lynching the most active player isn't necessarily the best solution. Mainly for the future well being of the thread.
Yes but you also have to admit that would be a very weak reason not to lynch someone who has appeared scummy.
Fircoal wrote:strike wolf wrote:Fircoal wrote:I didn't bring that up to say that Naxus was scum. I think I messed up in writing it so it came off that way. I was trying to explain why I kept on voting him. Which is not as much because I wanted him lynched as much as I wanted him to be scum. I put in too much emotional investment.
strike wolf wrote:Fircoal wrote:
I'm not saying that activity = townieness, but active players are good for the survival of the game. Thusly it's a nice thing for the scum if they can kill off the active players that aren't scum, leaving only active scum to direct the lynch.
Which would more or less give a basic somewhat satisfactory reason for why you would mention your activity in that post but has nothing to do with why you made it such a key part in your big analysis post.
.
It wasn't a key part, it was just another note. Part of the reason I did bring it up though because for a Day 1 lynch in which we have the least of info to go on, lynching the most active player isn't necessarily the best solution. Mainly for the future well being of the thread.
I think key part was a bit of a miswording on my part. Prominent is probably a better word...so basically you are admitting to saying you are active as a defense...
Again I think this is fairly wifomy saying scum would go after the active. Lots of scum go after the newer players and inactive players who they can twist words and know won't defend themselves well. In my experience this is more one of nag's scumtell than what you are claiming in the games I have seen. I also think you have contradicted yourself about nag going after an easy target and wanting to get rid of you as an experienced active player. Experienced active players from what I know don't add up to being easy lynches.
As far as vio, she seems to be off in her own little world concerning iliad. Most of what she has written fits out of context but are inaccurate to the game but this latest attempt has been rather weak.
Yes experienced active players aren't easy lynches, but that's why it's such a good idea for scum to lynch me now, because even I will admit I'm playing like shit. While I don't think what I did was that scummy, obviously the town does, and it's not like it's very hard right now to finger me as scum. Thusly it's a prime time to get rid of me. And I don't think it's WIFOMy in the scene of in the case of a good player playing badly and a bad player playing badly who would you wanna try to lynch. The better player of course. I have basically been WIFOMing up this whole thing, but meh, that's kinda just how I see this at the moment. I still think it'd be suicide for a scum to do what I did. And stupid no matter what side you're on unless you aren't on a side, but I don't always have my mind in the most rational of places.
While I do see some good points in this post, it really has not done anything to sway my opinion at all.
Fircoal wrote:ShaggyDan wrote:Fircoal wrote:Yes experienced active players aren't easy lynches, but that's why it's such a good idea for scum to lynch me now, because even I will admit I'm playing like shit. While I don't think what I did was that scummy, obviously the town does, and it's not like it's very hard right now to finger me as scum. Thusly it's a prime time to get rid of me. And I don't think it's WIFOMy in the scene of in the case of a good player playing badly and a bad player playing badly who would you wanna try to lynch. The better player of course. I have basically been WIFOMing up this whole thing, but meh, that's kinda just how I see this at the moment. I still think it'd be suicide for a scum to do what I did. And stupid no matter what side you're on unless you aren't on a side, but I don't always have my mind in the most rational of places.
@Underlined section: If you think it would be suicide for scum to do what you did, then surely this sounds like you're advocating your own lynch being that we have no idea if you're scum or not? At the end of that quote you basically called yourself stupid or third party. I think that's enough to put a little D1 pressure on you, despite my initial feelings from skimming.
Vote Fircoal. So how do you explain your own post? Are you stupid or thirdparty?
As for Violet and Illiad, I find it interesting how it is progressing, but I'd rather stay focused on one case at a time.
Also for the record, sorry for the lack of posts, I've been really busy. I'll try and be more active but I can't really promise anything
. At the very least I'll be on here every 2 days or so.
First off I didn't say I was either stupid or I was 3rd Party, I said I was stupid PERIOD. It doesn't matter my alignment cause there's no way what I did was good for anyone here. As a townie it makes the town suspicious and lynch another town, and as scum or 3rd-PArty it could cost my life. Either way it's lose-lose.
Also I find it interesting that after you get FOSed and Voting for aligning with me you end up flip-floping onto the more popular side. I think you're trying to avoid votes, and it's very scummy.
Vote: Shaggy
Actually that's not completely true...you did basically say you were either stupid or not aligned so I can actually see what shaggy was trying to say at that part of the conversation.
) people would lynch me. 
