The Never Ending Story! Fantasia Wins!!!!

[Thezzaruz]

Well, I have seen no evidence there is a "town" either,

Meaning that you are either 3rd party or scum...

For now I'll stop at a FOS / but that will change to a vote unless you can give me a good explanation of why you think there is no (or almost no) town and just 3rd party + scum in the game...

[Suspect101]

Gonna find a sub for Hologram.

[/]

Well, I have seen no evidence there is a "town" either,

Meaning that you are either 3rd party or scum...

For now I'll stop at a FOS / but that will change to a vote unless you can give me a good explanation of why you think there is no (or almost no) town and just 3rd party + scum in the game...

I only have as much info as is given to me, as has been guessed I am third party, This combined with the last two deaths leads me to voice my theory, I have no motive to say this if scum, I am simply attempting to catch scum as early as possible before this gets out of hand and turns unwinnable.
Now I'll reread to try and catch the tells I was referring to.

[pmchugh]

I would guess there is a small town that are unrecruitable, and the rest are third party survivors which can be recruited. No one else claim townie or third party as then scum will know who to kill.

[MrDizzle]

I agree that looking at sam to Simon voters is as good a place as any to start looking for scum and I'm not buying Stroop's defense that he only initially voted sam in hopes of inducing a slip-up. With that said, I'll stop at a FOS: Stroop until I can figure out whether or not pmc is leading another mislynch.

[LSU Tiger Josh]

Without revealing too much, i also know that Nzen and PMC were protected during the night. I was not the one that protected them, but my role was able to discover that. I also know that the nothing is a cult based off of my role and that at least 2 protections at night are aimed to prevent the nothing from spreading.

[pmchugh]

It seems the actual talk we were having a few pages back has died down do I may as well continue the speculaiton.

Sam does your vote still count? Just vote anyone and then wait for a VC.

[Suspect101]

Ok, I have decided not to replace Hologram and just mod kill him instead. His role was a trivial one and meant to cause doubt. I do not find it necessary to this game. I also am not going to write stories or vote clearing for mod kills.

Hologram - Night Hob (Killed via Mod) Blind Cop. Third Party

Vote Count

AceArtemis (1) - Falkomagno
Stroop (2) - pmchugh, thischarmingman
pmchugh (1) - Nzen


With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Not Voting:

Sam_levi_11, MrDizzle, Stroop, gimpyThewonder, LSU, AceArtemis, Thessaruz, /

Also if game play does not pick up, I will have to enforce another DEADLINE.

*Edited so I could figure out a frikin color that would post well.*

[AceArtemis]

I would guess there is a small town that are unrecruitable, and the rest are third party survivors which can be recruited. No one else claim townie or third party as then scum will know who to kill.

Wow, another third party member dead. The theory pmc presented seems correct.

[/]

Alright as promised i looked back for the quotes most against third party, However I agree PMC's theory that certain roles are unrecruitable is plausible, I don't mean to expose any "town" this is merely to bring focus on the possible cult-recruiter.

Well I think this pretty much seals the lynch, you claim a survivor and we need a lynch to gain info. If we are wrong hell we will only lose a 3rd party member who can win with mafia if we are right then we caught scum. Its win/draw and a much safer bet than anyone else IMO. I support a hammer vote.

The war is against mafia. However, Simon claimed a third party survivor. The common strategy for this type of role is to be as useless as possible and to lurk as much as possible so that:
1. The town won't lynch him because they don't have anything on him because he doesn't post very often.
2. The scum won't kill him because they want to get rid of a more useful townie.
We had nothing to lose by lynching Simon because at worst, Simon was a useless third party role, and at best, Simon was a mafia member. It turns out, Simon was a useless third party role. What did we lose? Not much.

The Simon lynch was fine. Granted, the initial reasons weren't the best, but when he claimed third party we had a safe lynch.

And while I think that simon's wagon may be a good place to start I don't think ace is the right one to go for. Yes he hamerred but if he was scum then surely after the claim he would rather that sam was killed instead since survivors can help scum to win at end game. But of course he could have just been trying to appear townie.
.

And of course Thezz's recent posts have made it abundantly clear he is certainly not third party.

Actually in retrospect being third party makes sense for the players who attempted to out the vig, since being killed would be their only way of losing.

[pmchugh]

Anyway I think I good lynch would be someone who jumped on sam's wagon and then switched to simon's once it had started. Although of course this only works if sam is town...

...Stroop just said:

The Simon lynch was fine. Granted, the initial reasons weren't the best...snip...I do think that we will find scum on the Simon-bandwagon, but I'll have to re-read before I have any thoughts to share.

His reasons for voting sam:

So why are we trying to find out who's the vig? It won't really help town...

I suppose sam could use some more pressure for trying to off the vig... unvote vote sam

His reasons for voting simon:

Two possible deadline lynches

I'm going to go with the Simon bandwagon on this one. vote Simon

Neither vote is sincere almost as if he is trying to distance himself from voting them yet stil doing it. It seems these votes were made while looking over your shoulder and that stinks of suspicion to me.

unvote vote stroop

I stand by this, and also Stroop's comment as pointed out as above means he is probably not 3rd party. As I can confirm to you that I a not either which is why I said what I did, I am a genuine townie.

[gimpyThewonder]

as much as I hate to be that guy, i'm posting just to say I don't have any ideas atm.

if something comes to me i'll let ya'll know

[Nzen]

No opinion at all? There are two strong cases laid out. One against pmchugh by myself and reinforced by / recently. Another against Stroop (or you, gimpyThewonder). Surely you have some opinion about pmchugh’s motives or alignment.

I had feared this morning I would have to cast my lot behind him. None voted with me last game day and didn’t look to today. He found classic behavior: bandwagon hopping is a potential scum tell. But, the new paradigm about third party worth instills hope. While the third party player incentives are not totally aligned with town, each represents another night between town and the final lynch. This does not mean that not lynching anyone is the best alternative; merely that lynching a player because he is third party supports the cult more than town. I urge you to vote for pmchugh.

Also, Suspect101, it would be cool if you changed the subject line. Night Hob dead sounds like the game entered night.

[gimpyThewonder]

actually Nzen neither of those cases presented could be labeled 'strong'. and frankly I don't want to vote out pmc yet regardless, he keeps games moving, and too many games falter in the early stages when the rest of us are head scratching. call it metagaming or whatever, but i like to keep players around who play.

[Stroop]

I would guess there is a small town that are unrecruitable, and the rest are third party survivors which can be recruited. No one else claim townie or third party as then scum will know who to kill.

That's a good idea and yet your next post goes against it entirely:

I stand by this, and also Stroop's comment as pointed out as above means he is probably not 3rd party. As I can confirm to you that I a not either which is why I said what I did, I am a genuine townie.

You reveal that you are a townie. Why? You're not under pressure and it gives scum more information.

You also think it's necessary to say that I seem third party which makes it more likely that I'm scum, even though there is no reason to think that. Why would I care about other third party players?

You say you still stand by your previous accusations, but you abandoned it when I asked you to explain it a bit better. Instead of answering my question, you didn't mention me again until now; you went on and praised sam for protecting you and defending yourself against Nzen. Sure, defending yourself might distract you from pursuing my lynch, but after that you just descend into chatter about the setup. Now, out of nowhere, you attack me again and still you fail to explain rather than making it look like I'm a good lynch.

Like Nzen said, every post you make stinks of manipulation and you're behind every bandwagon in this game, so vote pmchugh

[pmchugh]

I would guess there is a small town that are unrecruitable, and the rest are third party survivors which can be recruited. No one else claim townie or third party as then scum will know who to kill.

That's a good idea and yet your next post goes against it entirely:

I stand by this, and also Stroop's comment as pointed out as above means he is probably not 3rd party. As I can confirm to you that I a not either which is why I said what I did, I am a genuine townie.

You reveal that you are a townie. Why? You're not under pressure and it gives scum more information.

You also think it's necessary to say that I seem third party which makes it more likely that I'm scum, even though there is no reason to think that. Why would I care about other third party players?

You say you still stand by your previous accusations, but you abandoned it when I asked you to explain it a bit better. Instead of answering my question, you didn't mention me again until now; you went on and praised sam for protecting you and defending yourself against Nzen. Sure, defending yourself might distract you from pursuing my lynch, but after that you just descend into chatter about the setup. Now, out of nowhere, you attack me again and still you fail to explain rather than making it look like I'm a good lynch.

Like Nzen said, every post you make stinks of manipulation and you're behind every bandwagon in this game, so vote pmchugh

I revealed it because otherwise my argument against you makes no sense. I can't have double standards.

tbh I forgot about my points against you thanks to other comments but when I looked back and I realised it made sense.

Haha you fell right into the typical OMGUS trap, as well as siding with Nzen in your attempts to start a bandwagon.

As for my manipulation behind every wagon. Erm not quite. I have only started one against simon and that is it. Plus look at every other game have I ever not tried to start bandwagons?

[Nzen]

What group of Mafia convinced the players on this forum that only scum ever OMGUS vote? I have seen the argument several times but fail to understand it. If someone votes for me, am I crazy to suspect their motive and alignment? There is no rule against the cult initiating a bandwagon. If this were day one, I could see the reason.

[pmchugh]

What group of Mafia convinced the players on this forum that only scum ever OMGUS vote? I have seen the argument several times but fail to understand it. If someone votes for me, am I crazy to suspect their motive and alignment? There is no rule against the cult initiating a bandwagon. If this were day one, I could see the reason.

Your right it may not be a scum move but it makes the vote invalid. If you OMGUS then it shows your not thinking about the game.It would be positively easy for me to have voted you, but I didn't because I realise that is not the best way to play. It shows poor play above all else, and from an experienced player such as stroop well you would expect him to just jump on my wagon cause I voted for him.

But that isn't my main reasoning for voting stroop, it was that he was on every bandwagon yesterday and now today with poor reasons every time.

[Falkomagno]

vote pmc

[pmchugh]

vote pmc

Reasons?

[Falkomagno]

Wow, first of all...unvote
I was just having a shallow reading, due the good post made by Nzen.


but no, pmc is not the best choice to go for by now.


I think that the key post so far is this

We cannot say for sure that Simon's role was not crucial, even if he admitted to having no abilities, the role name seems to hint at an enabler or backup type role.
It seems that a majority of "town" are in fact survivors, scum couldn't know this, therefor I believe we should look into players who have mentioned third party as being unimportant, since they are most likely not third party themselves. (and most likely scum if most other players are third party)

I'm 100% with this reasoning, in fact, when i cast my naive vote for pmc, i felt kind of bad and I re-read entire thread. And, just when I see this post I realized that It's accord my notes. so far there are three deads in the game, all of them 3rd Party. That's is a fact. Thus, for obvious reasons, I agree with the hipotesis given by /, and I would like to go further. In this game is the 3rd party the real town.

So, it becomes an easy procees to try to look who could indicates to be a 3rd party itself, and who understimate that roles.

The group who looks more likely to be "nothing" or "cult" or in any case "the bad ones" here are the one who openly admit that killing 3rd party is not that bad

* Ace
* Stroop
* Thez.

I get this players in my list, and I saw later that / has found them as well.


So, by now, the most probable scum is:

vote Stroop

It's true that pmc is not 3rd party neither, and his "town Claim" is kind of suspicious, but I preffer to go after stroop in this case.

Another thing, the LSU role is kind o weird. He has Two votes and a odd investigation ability....i don't know, so weird by now

[Stroop]

What group of Mafia convinced the players on this forum that only scum ever OMGUS vote? I have seen the argument several times but fail to understand it. If someone votes for me, am I crazy to suspect their motive and alignment? There is no rule against the cult initiating a bandwagon. If this were day one, I could see the reason.

Your right it may not be a scum move but it makes the vote invalid. If you OMGUS then it shows your not thinking about the game.It would be positively easy for me to have voted you, but I didn't because I realise that is not the best way to play. It shows poor play above all else, and from an experienced player such as stroop well you would expect him to just jump on my wagon cause I voted for him.

I think you are most suspicious. Should I put my suspicions aside just because you have your vote on me? I re-read and thought about it well before voting you and I knew someone would call it OMGUS, but I don't think that it's an OMGUS when it's a reasonable vote.

But that isn't my main reasoning for voting stroop, it was that he was on every bandwagon yesterday and now today with poor reasons every time.

Maybe my reasons weren't too good on day one, but that's because it was day one. There was more to your vote before, but you still haven't answered my question about that.

[Nzen]

Well I think this pretty much seals the lynch, you claim a survivor and we need a lynch to gain info. If we are wrong hell we will only lose a 3rd party member who can win with mafia if we are right then we caught scum. Its win/draw and a much safer bet than anyone else IMO. I support a hammer vote.

I completely agree. Unvote, Vote: Simon Viavant You are the weakest link, goodbye. (Page 13)

Thanks, Falkomagno for the compliment. But, pmchugh deserves to top that list because he expressed the opinion first. I understand that the subsequent iterations agreed with little more than enthusiasm, his earlier behavior keeps me steadfast. Still, Stroop's lynch has a solid foundation. If Friday ends without someone else voting for pmchugh, I will vote for stroop.

Assuming LSU isn't falseclaiming, I guess he is Bastian. I can't imagine what the role would be called, but the Name-creating (power voting), all-seeing aspects fit. If two players visited each target and nothing happened, his conclusion makes sense. This suggests a doctor and a roleblocker vs gmork and the nothing. This high-risk, high-gain flavor of WiFoM could end the game tomorrow (via day vig and lynch) or push us to the last lynch early.

(I had to edit this post because I input the quote end tags wrong. It didn't split Ace's blurb from pmcugh's)

[pmchugh]

I think you are most suspicious

So it is merely conincedental that you sudenly found me most suspicious right after I voted for you?

[sam_levi_11]

Vote Falko, he is still random voting, as is shown by his hasty vote onto pmc before switching to stroop.