War on terrorism Dakky lynched: Nato & Russia win

[mandalorian2298]

Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but Mandy did a lot more than just soft claim. He pretty much told everyone which country he is in the first few pages.

hehe, but you'd notice that because of what you said. And now thats out there, Mandy please explain why you think you know about coalition, villager and ISIS and supposed lack of any other entitities?

How about I trade you. You quote the post in which I postulate the lack of any other entities and I shall then proceed to tell you why I think I know what I think about the rest of that stuff.

I quoted it, you edited it out.

You couldn't have quoted it since I never said any such thing. Also, I never soft claimed anything.

I'm not voting for dakky because I believe that Epi is a better lynch target. I have already posted why I believe this, in detail.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

'french fries' is not stupid enough?

There goes my bid for most american sounding statemnt of Day 1. I bow to you, sir.

Not sure if Mandalorian is playing a role, having fun with the setup, or playing the setup - wolf in sheep's clothing as it were.

YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!!!

So yes, I'm having a lot of fun with this setup.

"D1 is crap, D1 is pointless, spin the random wheel or no lynch..."

I don't know about all that.

unvote vote BGtheBrain for suggesting No Lynch - the Scumm's Choice for any Day.

So Mandy if you werent softclaiming, why were you writing complete crap for no reason.

Why are you being obstructive?

Why do you know about the set up, but cant read PTs alignment easily?

There are a lot of "whys" stacking up against you.

[Epitaph1]

I think Mandy was dicking around or much of the beginning of the game. It's part of the reason he pinged my radar because it seemed excessive and unproductive imo. This could be his play style or he could be playing up the flavor as a guise like Mitch did in the Harry Potter game.

He still doesn't seem terribly serious about the game as he seems to deflect every criticism or question thrown his way. Either that, or he has a baller role that won't get lynched if claimed so he isn't worried about antagonizing so many people.

---

@dakky. When I made the comment about BG's D1 play style, it was based on this sentiment:

lol, I have nothing to add really.

I dont particularly care for D1. I feel like its a waste of time/energy. Short of having a day cop, the day ends with someone randomly being (mis)lynched. That someone typically is the person who talks the most and tries to get stuff done. In TNC's 50+ games, I was that guy for most of them. So D1 always had me trying to find the tiniest shred of evidence, but it would end up with me being forced to claim.

However, I agree that BG has really done nothing this game. He needs a fire lit under him to get him going or if he doesn't want to participate, then sub out. Speaking of replaced, where is Tobi? He hasn't posted in a week.

Mod, can you prod Tobi?

[BGtheBrain]

****

[jbfloyd]

Game is stalling. When we start posts that person x,y, or z isn't posting/contributing etc. which basically means we don't have much that is solid to discuss.

Can we at least start narrowing the candidate pool?

Dakky is at 4 still I think. If he gets to 6 then we can get a full claim. IMO most everything is heresay and conjecture until we start getting full claims. BG and TWR are also legit targets because of their obstinate refusal to give much input to the game until later, which apparently is when the game really starts. Now I don't really want to vote BG because I've played with him before and while I think he may not have much enthusiasm for playing the game anymore if he survives a bit, he can be very good. I realize this argument means nothing to most, but it's how I feel about. I also accept that several feel I should be the one pressured because of my comment about Winston.

But what I'm not doing is saying I will never vote BG today because I think person X is scummier. We all have to admit that D1 involves a lot of randomness and even though we feel very strongly about something D1, it can completely change later because today we have the least information.

Look, I see a lot of people "sticking to their guns" and it's resulting in gridlock. Some of this may be legitimate conviction, but I have a suspicion that some of this is to avoid bandwagoning/attracting attention/creating a tratcable vote pattern, ie. scum lying low. Anyway, it's going to take a few people moving off intractability to actually push someone towards claim territory so that we can discuss something substantive. I'm not suggesting that we force someone to claim to without cause or without discussion. I just think we have a few good candidates right now and I haven't read much added to the discussion recently. And we are getting stuck because we want to vote for the "best" option over other "reasonable" options. I find Dakky to be a "reasonable" option for D1 pressure. (I'm not sure I have a "best" in mind.) I've left my vote on him because, looking at the votes it would be counterproductive to move elsewhere while he is the leading candidate by the numbers. I'd like to avoid a deadline scramble.

I'm just asking, does anyone else have the thought, "I think person X is the best choice to get a claim from, but person Y is also cromulent claim." ? Looking for a path forward. Not saying the current discussions are pointless. I'm just feeling we're at a D1 stall.

Fp'd: BG speaks! He apparently kind of feels the same way. I agree with the quote from Madmitch isn't good if you've played mafia before. Omelettes.... eggs... you break some... that sort of thing, etc.

[mandalorian2298]

'french fries' is not stupid enough?

There goes my bid for most american sounding statemnt of Day 1. I bow to you, sir.

Not sure if Mandalorian is playing a role, having fun with the setup, or playing the setup - wolf in sheep's clothing as it were.

YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!!!

So yes, I'm having a lot of fun with this setup.

"D1 is crap, D1 is pointless, spin the random wheel or no lynch..."

I don't know about all that.

unvote vote BGtheBrain for suggesting No Lynch - the Scumm's Choice for any Day.

So Mandy if you werent softclaiming, why were you writing complete crap for no reason.

Why are you being obstructive?

Why do you know about the set up, but cant read PTs alignment easily?

There are a lot of "whys" stacking up against you.

No wonder - I work in mysterious ways.

Aslo, I am know to have fun with the theme. It is not really obstructive since people who get confussed by movie quotes are generaly unlikely to produce a logical conclusion even under the best circumstances.

As for my mysterious knowledge about "villages" and "villagers", I got it by carefully reading posts (which surely appears to be the most mysterious of my ways to some players )

There aren't towns in this part of the World....there are villages. So, we have VVs (Vanilla Villagers), I guess. 15 players, that should be about 8-9 villagers, 4 scum, and 2-3 third party, although I've never played one of this mod's games before.

And then you greeted him like a long lost brother, which made me want to re-read his posts, which in turn enabled me to figure out what happened and issue a general warning to all the other children that they might want to avoid beginning a game of Mafia with a role-claim.

Who is PT and, since it's so obvious to you and the rest of the class, what is his alligment?

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

As for my mysterious knowledge about "villages" and "villagers", I got it by carefully reading posts (which surely appears to be the most mysterious of my ways to some players )

There aren't towns in this part of the World....there are villages. So, we have VVs (Vanilla Villagers), I guess. 15 players, that should be about 8-9 villagers, 4 scum, and 2-3 third party, although I've never played one of this mod's games before.

And then you greeted him like a long lost brother, which made me want to re-read his posts, which in turn enabled me to figure out what happened and issue a general warning to all the other children that they might want to avoid beginning a game of Mafia with a role-claim.

Now up to this point your logic is good and flows with no leaps based on absent information. However, there was the following which is not explained by the interaction between myself and Tobi.

It seems to me like all the vanillas (like Wing and Tobi) have been given a survival WC and they are now more interested in getting recruited and changing that something less challenging then in finding scum. Due to this, gathering enough votes for a lynch at present feels like herding cats.

Where did the idea that we are survivors come from, and where did the further idea that we are the subjects of potential ISIS recruitment come from?

Excuse me, but you know me and Tobi are villagers. Thats it. These are massive leaps of logic.

Who is PT and, since it's so obvious to you and the rest of the class, what is his alligment?

He is town and doesnt understand why there are villagers about when he is expecting to one of a group of countries who normally sit around the boardroom in the United Nations summit or equivalent. I cant tell you which because of course I am not one of these countries and havent seen their role pm.

However, you seem to know this piece of information too.

Dear NATO nations (or Coalition or whatever), come Day 2 you will be facing even more daunting odds as you will have to battle not only the resistance of cowardly Survivors but also of ISIS recruited goons who are going to be impossible to distinguish from the former. I implore you to make a stand, here and now, while the enemy is still small and manageable and together we can cut of the snake's head!

[Talapus]

Damn, this game seems to be headed for a wall quickly, it means it is time for a consensus I suppose. However figuring out the best way to approach this is a challenge. A couple things I guess:

Why there was such a discussion about exact wording people used in some of their posts based on what LSU was calling townies is beyond me as it seems fairly useless for now. We want to take out ISIS that should be the main focus. Until we actually start getting some scenes to see the terminology LSU uses, the rest is moot in my mind.

BG is obviously annoyed and ready to lynch whatever, though I disagree about never anything to go on for day in some games.

I think looking to far into some of the posts earlier in the game when certain players were still having fun and messing around and trying to read alignments out of obvious jokes is also useless.

Love the ego wing...

But Talapus appears to have taken the stay quiet approach to avoiding my wrath so I am not switching yet.

I think maybe you should look back and realize it isn't my first quiet approach but yes, it must be because of you...lol

Finally I have reread now twice and I don't see what pt claimed to be. Obviously I gave up on TWR as I think that player tightened their own noose. And as for mitch what he has done so far is what I have seen him do in other games and I'm still as much at a loss for his alignment as I was in those.

So this brings me back to my original thought about a consensus being a challenge. Obviously we need one, but I don't think just forcing a player to claim is really any benefit. 15 of us and close to 200 nations on the planet. Unless someone comes out and claims Russia or China, or one of the main ones someone else is likely counter it will be damn difficult to call BS. Also, unless someone is truly dumb enough to claim Vatican City or something...lol. So not sure how a claim is going to aid us here.

Epi, dakky, BG, and TWR seem to be the ones with the most votes people are willing to consider today where it seems Tobi may just be under the radar. With ISIS still small, they will jump on the best candidate close to a lynch as the day wraps up in order to end it and recruit someone...this game gets harder the more they recruit so I'd really like to not miss tonight. So I guess out of these 4 I will look back and decide.

[dakky21]

It's getting quite interesting... I know of 2 people who are currently sided with me, Tobikera & Mandy.
Both of them mentioned something which reveals their side.
Wing probably as well.

FP'd by Wing & Talapus

[ptlowe]

Thanks Wing.......When I first posted about the villagers. I was under the assumption that everyone was a country but the terrorist. That said, I assumed those claiming other alignment where liers. I have caught scum through paying close attention to the roles allowed in a game verse those they were claiming. I have been queit since because I was hoping it wasn't aparent to all but Wing just laid it out nice and easy even for a the people that were not paying attention. Thanks wing....so I can assume it was not in your best interest to keep those out of the loop out of the loop. Which means you may have an added agenda outside of town winning. I think someone said you were looking to get recruited. Sounds about right now.

Anyways, my scum meter is still on tobi and BG and potentially wing now. Those are the three I would prefer to go after. If, by chance, it's just between epi and dakky, I think epi is less scummy. I will wait to see who gets pushed the hardest. I do agree we need yo get a lynch in today on the chance we hit the terrorist.

[Ragian]

Christ. Everyone with common sense could deduce what you are, PT. Don't take it out on Wing that you dropped the soap or spilled the beans or said too much or whatever a good phrase for that in English is. In Danish we say "at tale over sig" if anyone cares or is looking to go to Denmark and say too much.

Anyway, it's nice to hear from BG. Having played with him loads of times, I sort of knew why we voted mitch, but that shouldn't keep him from informing the rest of you.

Now, I'm voting dakky for the following reasons:
- First, his post count reeked of "look at how helpful a townie I am"
- Second, he mentioned something about mitch on a meta-level which got him towards my good side; to add to the fire, mitch OMGUS voted him and then unvoted, and then they magically patched up and made friends. I raised an eyebrow of the "did they orchestrate that early on to put distance between them"-ish.
- Third, he bandwagoned on epi saying that the original accuser would have to go D2 if epi turns out to be town. Setting two non-scum up for lynching.

This is more than I usually see D1. I did see it before, though. That was when we lynched scum dakky D1 in...ahm...in a game that town eventually lost. I forget which it was.

Now, if mitch gains more votes than dakky, I'm perfectly able to switch as my conjecture is that they're in some sort of evil cahoots. I'm not really sold on talapus case, I'm not at all sold on the epi case. I'm not convince on the case on TWR based on meta.

[mandalorian2298]

Wing: I deduced that you guys are witing to be recruited from the way you abandoned any pretense of looking for scum after three of you role-claimed. Given that you must have SOME WC before you get recruited, Survivor seems a logical choice both because of the theme and for game balance purposes.

Tal: While I appricate your efforts to bring order and structure to the discussion, I fear that you are twarted by the fact that maybe four other players are both willing and able to assist you in this effort (I am not among them because I find that bringing quiet and thoughtful arguments to a shouting match can only lead to ulcers). Instead of this futile endevour, wouldn't you rather favour us with a case against the player who looks the scumiest to you. I want a Tal-rant!

Ptlowe

... I have caught scum through paying close attention to the roles allowed in a game verse those they were claiming. ....

Anyways, my scum meter is still on tobi and BG and potentially wing now.
...

Well this is interesting. Ptlowe accuses two known Villagers (btw, "paying close attention" ) and BG. Rule of three? FOS Plowe

[ptlowe]

Claimed vs known are two things. Claim all you want all day doesn't mean jack.

[BuJaber]

Now, I'm voting dakky for the following reasons:
- First, his post count reeked of "look at how helpful a townie I am"
- Second, he mentioned something about mitch on a meta-level which got him towards my good side; to add to the fire, mitch OMGUS voted him and then unvoted, and then they magically patched up and made friends. I raised an eyebrow of the "did they orchestrate that early on to put distance between them"-ish.
- Third, he bandwagoned on epi saying that the original accuser would have to go D2 if epi turns out to be town. Setting two non-scum up for lynching.

Thank you for answering my question. This is reasonable, not too elaborate/imaginative, and when you add this latest post which really offers nothing, I am satisfied enough to switch votes:

It's getting quite interesting... I know of 2 people who are currently sided with me, Tobikera & Mandy.
Both of them mentioned something which reveals their side.
Wing probably as well.

FP'd by Wing & Talapus

Unvote Vote dakky21

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

show

Nice essay Tal. How did you manage to say nothing in it? I like the encouragement of others bandwagons at the end. Nice touch.

[Tobikera]

OK, I've been out of pocket for a few days. We grow lettuce down here in Panama, and I've been trying to get our production up to 6,000 heads per week (and failing, but there's hope).

I initially made the comment about villages and villagers because of semantics. This the accepted designation in the Middle East. Also, as my fellow TNC players will know, I rail almost every game because I am a VT. In 10 games, I've been scum, third party, and an investigative role player only once each, otherwise VT. Now I'm blessed with a slightly different role (humor), VV. Boring......

I voted for Iron Butterfly simply because he voted for me (for no good reason) and misspelled my name. So,
UNVOTE.

I've read all the D1 twaddle, and find there to be more substance (and more days) than we usually get in TNC Mafia games, which is to y'alls credit. As BG is famous for saying, D1 is useless. The only problem with that is if you don't do something in D1, then D2 could be just as useless, minus one night kill. So, in the interest of learning more from and about our current vote leader, I
VOTE DAKKY
your mileage may vary......

[HotShot53]

Claimed vs known are two things. Claim all you want all day doesn't mean jack.

However, claiming something that isn't known to outsiders that is then corroborated by another insider could mean something. It could mean, as you are suggesting, that they are trying to let it be known that they are recruitable (which could make theme sense), or it could be just that they really are VT/VV.

Personally, having no main scum faction and only a terrorist recruiter sounds a bit far-fetched for a game of mafia to me... I guess it is possible to have a small group of scum that are also recruiters though.

With the new votes on dakky, I think that puts him at L-2 and claim time...

[Talapus]

. I want a Tal-rant!
...

Patience young grasshopper...as you saw in my above post I wanted to go reread on the 4 and decide, and although not a rant, it is a decision.

First off:

TWR: Waste of time and effort currently. If you really don't know why I feel this way then you should probably stop skimming.

Epi: Obviously a current fan favorite and for day 1, a decent argument to base a vote on. But after rereading I have decided a different players actions are slightly more questionable. Also based on the logic mandy pointed out about us having an idea about BG or TWR based on lynch results I really just can't get behind the idea. Mainly because TWR has no idea what's going on and BG just seems done with a game already.

BG: Well, this one is tough based on so little coming out and being posted. attitude kind of sucks and obviously not a fan in general of day one but hey some people aren't...so not enough here in my mind to base a vote on.

Dakky: You finally have my attention. Let's start with this:

I agree with Epi and Rag about me not helping town, but at this moment I can only stick to the post count as scum almost always tends to be silent, especially on D1. Unfortunately no one voted for a mod or Arnold Schwarzenegger so I can stick to that and no one made any obvious mistake so far. Except mitch, who didn't react to my joke vote on him as he normally reacts. Only after I asked why didn't he react, then he wrote something, expecting to be funny as always, but this time I think he may not be town. So my vote on him stands.

Not a bad assumption, but it is going to come back to bite you here towards the end of this.

Winston - Pretty sure he's not playing at this point. We could just lynch him so the mod doesn't have to worry about replacing him. Does that count as making the Mod happy?

See, this particular sentence in the middle of your thread got my attention. First, what would town have from lynching the inactive and second, why do you care about a mod? This was a pure scum play, as you want to lynch anyone, even an inactive. BIG FOS on you.

See, in my eyes silent/inactive...kinda of the same thing. So seems like a contradiction, don't lynch the inactive but scum are the more silent ones...huh? Again though we will revisit.

I agree about Epi. Though, such deep thoughts and investigations will probably lead to EPI being lynched, but if he is town, you're next.

unvote, vote Epitaph1

So now you have departed from from your joke voting based on meta and gone against your lynch the silent D1 norm for an argument mandy brings forth which you agree with. Even if it involved a bit more deep thought than your norms.

Dakky's only defense is that he's always on the block day 1... so my vote will stay there for now. I can see mandy's case on Epi also, so if town decides that's a better case I can see switching if my vote is needed to do something with day 1.

[b]
So you're willing to bandwagon on anyone else?

Ok, here are my brief notes on my favorite supects so far:

DAKKY

Between his post count summary and his setting up mandy if epi is town (while switching to vote epi himself), Dakky does seem to be the best case so far day 1, so I will [color=#FF0000]unvote, vote dakky

I agree, dakky seems scummy indeed for this. It's basically an attempt to a) get a free pass during Day 1 because we would be lynching Epi and b) if Epi turns Town then he is trying to cement me as Day 2 lynch target for another free pass.

FOS dakky

I don't want a free pass. What you just said is - if Epi turns town, then you are probably town as well. But if Epi turns scum.... that's another story. You're constantly FOS-ing people without voting, looks like you really want anyone dead.

Two things I like here the most is the bandwagon comment, which as we already know Dakky gave up his/her meta voting D1 policy and other day 1 policy that scum are silent to throw a vote onto Epi with literally none of his/her own reasoning. Yet you are going to call out another player for their potential band wagoning stance...HA

And the second point is you have a problem with mandy FOS'ing when all you did so far was base a vote on meta and then BW? Then you accuse him of wanting anyone dead...hilarious.

Then as the vote dakky express continues to pick up speed it isn't really until BG votes him that there seems to be a bit of push back. A few posts in between before we really hear anything from dakky that is of substance, but here is what we get.

So what exactly have you added to this game yet? You're being here and just staying under the radar. Everyone else posted something valuable. You're more scummier than I am, but people are still "considering your play is normal for D1"... while I actually tried to scumhunt and got accused.

Just a quick question.... why do you all skimmed my post about BG? 8 posts without saying anything except vote for me, without any reason? Now his first suspect is Mitch, without changing vote to him? Why no one asks about that? BG is "playing normally for D1" ? WTF. Looks like he would mis-lynch anyone, just as he said in the first few posts. "Don't waste your energy guys, lets just get over with it" isn't scummy at all. Right...

I'm pretty sure there dakky you were trying to explain to all of us earlier in the game that your meta vote for mitch and you typically being the day one choice is normal D1 activity. Yet you now have a problem with BG because others say that's the norm for him? Ummmm, pot, meet kettle...kettle meet pot. FYI, they are both black in case you were wondering...lol.

Call it bandwagoning, but I actually given my reasons this time.

vote BGtheBrain

So your "reasons" and I quote it because the s implies there are multiple when really even just the one is hard to justify is basically that he hasn't posted much or contributed anything. And this is better then the vote on Epi which is based on more how exactly?

The fact I really love is you jump on board to bandwagon, question others as to why they think it's ok to bandwagon others while feigning innocence, and then once again decide to hop on one of your own making and call it exactly what it is...love it.

I find it highly suspicious you play like you normally do according to you and use that logic to base all your votes but have issues with others doing it. Then go along with mandy because he makes a decent case against a player to which you add nothing and then feign surprise that others may be willing to bandwagon. Don't do a whole hell of a lot for yourself to slow the lynch dakky express as it picks up speed, and then really only offer an argument against another player that is a weaker argument than the one you currently are voting for. Something isn't adding up for sure.

But as Tobi has now fastpoted me I don't want to vote you without giving you a chance to claim because the odds are not currently in your favor. Just don't want scum hammering before you get a chance to respond

[Talapus]

Nice essay Tal. How did you manage to say nothing in it? I like the encouragement of others bandwagons at the end. Nice touch.

Wow, you really see what you want in things don't you?

I think Dakky is now at lynch -1 I missed BU's vote so am hoping no one hammers before we hear back from them.

[dakky21]

Being on L-1 or L-2 (whatsoever)

I will claim vanilla NATO sided Villager.

Tobikera first mentioned Villagers and Mandy first mentioned NATO. Since both words are in my role, I guess they have the same role as I do. Or similar, but NATO sided. I guess there could be ISIS Villagers, but Tobikera mentioned Vanilla Villagers in his post and separately mentioned scum, so I guess he is a Villager as well.

There was talk about Villages and Villagers (notice the difference) and I even mentioned it page before, but seems no one took it for granted.

Well, now you know. That's why I consider Tobi & Mandy NATO aligned and Wing is being "proactive" against ISIS so he could fit in the same basket, probably.

[madmitch]

what's your name? anyone can say that they are a NATO sided villager, not much of a claim ,ah the HELL with it ! can't take the chance VOTE DAKKY

[dakky21]

what's your name? anyone can say that they are a NATO sided villager, not much of a claim ,ah the HELL with it ! can't take the chance VOTE DAKKY

By my count, I am actually now at L-1, and you tried to hammer me.
So my meta from the start might be actually true, your answer to my joke vote was different than in other games where you were town... so my list goes like this:

town (villagers):
Mandy
Tobikera
me

Scum (ISIS):
mitch

Possible ISIS:
BG, epi

unknown:
Rage, and rest

UNVOTE, VOTE MITCH (again, sorry. Meta was obviously correct after all)

[dakky21]

what's your name? anyone can say that they are a NATO sided villager, not much of a claim ,ah the HELL with it ! can't take the chance VOTE DAKKY

EBWOP:

No one can say they're NATO sided Villager because no one said it is NATO vs ISIS and no one said there are Villagers as town. Nice try anyway.

[HotShot53]

I have to say, dakky's claim sounds more towny than mitch's quicklynch attempt on him... so I will have to unvote, vote mitch

[Iron Butterfly]

Ok....read through...confusing as shit...while at the same time some of it makes sense. We need a lynch...it seems people keep redirecting the focus as if we have time to argue.

Dakky had an interesting exchange early game with Mitch, first he was calling him out for not being Mitch for that he felt he was scum. I pushed back just a hair and then say it was a trap while sucking up to me. That whole trap thing just struck me as odd. it was a small lie but a lie non the less. I do not think Dakky is telling the truth.

Vote Dakky