Double Fanucci Mafia (4/14) Endgame

[StorrZerg]

I wished to use a general technique to forward the game. You have criticized it for being invalid.

You have put forward the random lynch idea to "generate discussion," i.e. you were trying to advance the game, but in truth didn't support such a venture yourself.

apples and oranges. I attacked your accusation on him, because you nit picked a statement and didn't take into account the full meaning. Even after you say you didn't care, and admit to looking directly at one point. Trying to call him scummy for wanting a no lynch over a random lynch (being entirely random.org no human contact) while he still would rather a normal lynch.

If you claim your push was to generate discussion, then way are you so insistent that he is scummy lol.

Therefore, we have a situation where you are seeking to pin others but the same rules don't apply to you. 1) I hate double standards and 2) that's classic scumming.

Not as black and white as you paint it. Even if it was "big woop" Im going to read some people different than others even if its based on similar things. You are not the first person to accuse me of double standards, and will not be the last.

You still have no case, that's fine. Putting you back on ignore while i find some scum kthx.

[rishaed]

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[Spoiler]

Mets - You appear to be arguing that lynching Town is better than no lynch.

I say this in every single game: D1 lynches are no better than random and are likely actually worse from town's perspective, because most people vastly overrate their "scumhunting" skills. Someday folks will listen!

Are you serious? Ok you destroyed wing's argument about the 'no lynch' but I can't believe you still consider a D1 lynch inferior to an RNG lynch.

The numbers don't lie -- town are not better at catching scum than an RNG on D1. As for the question of whether I'd actually prefer a random number generator to choose a D1 lynch -- I don't know! I'm not sure what the right answer is. Obviously I don't want to just take a townie away for no valid reason. However, sometimes people can generate really bad cases D1. (It's happened to me a couple times over the last year, even.) So the RNG lynch might actually help us compared to the lynch that town did make. But this might be offset by the leads and cases that are generated in later days. It is often hard to know until many days later. I find the argument plausible that we should probably lynch on D1 even in the face of little data -- indeed, that's what I meant when I advocated D1 'random' lynches, not actual RNG lynches -- but I'm not very confident in it.

I can't tell if you are deliberately trying to derail the conversation from actual scumhunting or if you are just completely missing the point. I am not an expert by any means in Mafia but what I gather is this... Ready? Ok:

A lynch based on the town's votes gets more discussion going day 2 than a random lynch would. It isn't about what the % is on flipping mafia, but rather on what said person flips, and night actions done. We can then go back, analyze posts from D1 and try to figure out who is scummy.

With that, unvote, vote mets because of this stupid idiotic arguing. I still think hotshot has somewhat of a case but I honestly dont think mets is as dense as he is portraying himself right now.

Something felt wrong on the wind, and his senses itched at him. Be wary. Be prepared. unvote Vote NoS
NoS it seems you are "stating the truth Creatively" and its scummy.

Is hotshot really not dead yet? Everything else really bores me, Ive read a few things on mets I could be swayed to go that way too but I think ive got hotshot dead to rights.

She'd been expecting this for some time, but that didn't make it any less frustrating.
@Storr Because every time he opens his mouth he reeks of scum.
Lynch NoS/mtamb.
"You change, Perrin Aybara," Gaul said.
"What's that?" Perrin said, taking Stepper from a groom.
"This is a good thing," Gaul replied. "It is good to see you stop protesting about being chief. It is better to see you enjoy command."
"I've stopped protesting because I have better things to do," Perrin said. "And I don't enjoy being in command. I do it because i have to."

[rishaed]

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EBWOP

[StorrZerg]

unvote
while unconventional, real talk is coming out when prompted. Ill take a gander at NoS, but mtamb isn't scum you just hate his style.

[DoomYoshi]

I prodded TeeGee. 3 players have their last post as yesterday, everyone else has posted today. Overall, the activity level is great. Thanks for that.

Tentative Deadline set for next Thursday.

[StorrZerg]

You had this argument in your last game unless you can back up your assertion your argument is meaning less.

Below quote is from Mets in Streakers Vanilla game at the start when Mets was Vanilla Townie.

Normally I am not super enthusiastic about random D1 lynches because we usually learn more from what happens on N1, but in a all-vanilla game the vast majority of our verified information will come from how people flip after a lynch. So I will be interested in having a lynch.

Nice catch. Now vote Mets please thx.

I'm sorry. Can you explain why that makes Mets Mafia? All I see is a player who has a strange set of beliefs about D!.

what we have is consistency on mets beliefs, and streaker trying to show case it as inconsistency.

[Metsfanmax]

unvote
while unconventional, real talk is coming out when prompted. Ill take a gander at NoS, but mtamb isn't scum you just hate his style.

What do you think that last part means? It could be him telling us that this is a post restriction and therefore not optional, but I can't be certain.

[StorrZerg]

still down to lynch hotshot
now streaker looks good to lynch as well.
NoS as well.

virus/tamb/mets are town in my books

@mets
I still think its optional. though, i don't think it matters that much tbh. He is doing a decent job lately of communicating his opinions via quoting what he is talking about. so that helps

[NoSurvivors]

@rishead, what do you mean creatively stating the truth? I want to state the obvious so people stop bickering about who is right and who is wrong. It's another case of people just bickering and arguing in circles and nothing gets done, so I am trying to explain why-- very bluntly-- most people think a completely random lynch D1 is worse than a lynch induced by people.

@Storr, you still have not responded to my asking you why you voted for hotshot. You didnt give a reason, you simply said "ok pumpkins" or something like that.

@Mets, I understand that, but my thinking is the way people generate discussion to CATCH the scum slips and such, is by investigating D1 chat. So if there is no D1 chat and we just random lynch someone, no one had votes lying anywhere, no one got their hands dirty in a sense, and therefore it is harder to make discussion and CREATE a d2 case.

[StorrZerg]

@Storr, you still have not responded to my asking you why you voted for hotshot. You didnt give a reason, you simply said "ok pumpkins" or something like that.

That was my reason. Mtamb tends to be good at reading hotshot, I have town read mtamb, thus willing to go on hotshot.

[TA1LGUNN3R]

I wished to use a general technique to forward the game. You have criticized it for being invalid.

You have put forward the random lynch idea to "generate discussion," i.e. you were trying to advance the game, but in truth didn't support such a venture yourself.

apples and oranges. I attacked your accusation on him, because you nit picked a statement and didn't take into account the full meaning. Even after you say you didn't care, and admit to looking directly at one point. Trying to call him scummy for wanting a no lynch over a random lynch (being entirely random.org no human contact) while he still would rather a normal lynch.

If you claim your push was to generate discussion, then way are you so insistent that he is scummy lol.

Therefore, we have a situation where you are seeking to pin others but the same rules don't apply to you. 1) I hate double standards and 2) that's classic scumming.

Not as black and white as you paint it. Even if it was "big woop" Im going to read some people different than others even if its based on similar things. You are not the first person to accuse me of double standards, and will not be the last.

You still have no case, that's fine. Putting you back on ignore while i find some scum kthx.

Gee, I can see why you're so well liked. Not only are you delusional you also fail to read properly.

I distinctly said any misaction was cause for lynching on D1. I don't really care if the player is otherwise scummy. It's not that difficult to grasp if you'll actually consider any argument other than your own.

Your cock-sure attitude would be fine if you could back it up, but all I see is a loudmouth.

And honestly, if people are accusing you of double standards, other than me, you may want to reflect on your person, because it is a supremely repugnant attribute.

My vote stands. Only scum benefit from double standards.

-Tails

[mtamburini]

Skimmed a bit, I like tails but I'm almost certain youre wrong on storr, look elsewhere for today please *bats eyelashes*

[rishaed]

@rishead, what do you mean creatively stating the truth? I want to state the obvious so people stop bickering about who is right and who is wrong. It's another case of people just bickering and arguing in circles and nothing gets done, so I am trying to explain why-- very bluntly-- most people think a completely random lynch D1 is worse than a lynch induced by people.

"You see, lad, Aes Sedai are tricksome. They don't lie, not right out, but the truth an Aes Sedai tells you is not always the truth you think it is. You take care around her."

[TeeGee]

I'm starting to think this game is

1) way over my skill level
2) overly confusing for someone who thinks he just got an idea of the basic game
3) way over my skill level

I will go through it all again and see if I can come up with anything tonight

[StorrZerg]

less complaining more posting.

the only thing confusing will be rishaed, just ignore him. make comments about the game, ask questions.

[TA1LGUNN3R]

Egads, rish, what a cumbersome pr.

@TeeGee,
You're fine. I wouldn't say there's anything particularly advanced gong on in the game, just a bunch of kids who think they know better than everyone else and are too vocal about it.

Skimmed a bit, I like tails but I'm almost certain youre wrong on storr, look elsewhere for today please *bats eyelashes*

Care to elaborate?

-Tails

[Army of GOD]

I'm starting to think this game is

1) way over my skill level
2) overly confusing for someone who thinks he just got an idea of the basic game
3) way over my skill level

I will go through it all again and see if I can come up with anything tonight

every game is over my skill level. You just gotta act like you know what's going on.

I agree with TG about Storr's double standard. He might be accused of having one every game, but I'm really hesitant about him and mtam's hotgaybumsex pact.

I doubt both are scum but it seems like they're forever protective of each other, which could end up being bad for town if one is scum

[mtamburini]

Egads, rish, what a cumbersome pr.

@TeeGee,
You're fine. I wouldn't say there's anything particularly advanced gong on in the game, just a bunch of kids who think they know better than everyone else and are too vocal about it.

Skimmed a bit, I like tails but I'm almost certain youre wrong on storr, look elsewhere for today please *bats eyelashes*

Care to elaborate?

-Tails

Why I like you or why I like storr?

Short answer is I cant bring up super duper cases that prove that your both town. But ill quote some things that storr has said that I find towny tomorrow after work too lazy now.

[HotShot53]

I'm starting to think this game is

1) way over my skill level
2) overly confusing for someone who thinks he just got an idea of the basic game
3) way over my skill level

I will go through it all again and see if I can come up with anything tonight

Just hang in there, day 1 is always confusing since no-one has anything much to go on, everyone else is almost as lost as you are, we just pretend we can read people lol. (And there I go with the lol again... to whomever mentioned it, if you ever chatted with me, you'd be surprised at how few lol's I use in here... I'm afraid I way overuse it usually, my fingers just seem to type it by default)

Ok, now to go through and see who I can find the most scummy... will have to go through the player list to keep it organized.

Players
1. Storrzerg - Has been going hard so far in day 1, seems to be more like his town self, so I am leaning town on him
2. HotShot53 - Obviously I know I'm town.
3. Iron Butterfly - Hmm... he has posted in here occasionally... but looking back, nothing of substance, it's all generic comments... he tried to bring up the "elephant in the room" of rishead, to cast suspicion on him, but no firm opinions really on him or anyone else... he's been much more active in the other mafia game he's in. I'll have to lean scum for his only activity not adding anything or opinions on anyone
4. WingCmdr Ginkapo - new to mafia on these forums (not sure about experience elsewhere), but seems to be trying and pretty active, will lean town
5. Streaker - has been somewhat active, nothing really stands out about him really... neutral read
6. mtamburini - decided that because I said something sarcastic I was scum, and stuck with it with his usual stubbornness... I did like his comment wondering about IB & streaker, so far they are 2 that I would be wondering about too. His recent posts have moved me to more leaning town rather than just neutral
7. virus90 - has only made 2 posts since his joke vote. He is usually not very active on day 1's, but this is a bit bad... his two posts are decent however... I'll say neutral at this point
8. strike wolf - seems to be pretty active and scum hunting, even if I was one of his early scum reads. I would lean town for him
9. metsfanmax - I don't know if it's just his position about day 1 being almost a waste at voting, or what... some of his posts just rub me the wrong way. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt since it seems to be his normal day 1 position, and give him a neutral reading
10. NoSurvivors - Hasn't made a ton of posts, most of them seem ok... still neutral for now
11. Army of GOD - Same as NoSurvivors, hasn't made a ton of posts, most of them seem ok... still neutral for now
12. TeeGee - inactive, am looking forward to his promised post after going through it all.
13. TA1LGUNN3R - Not many posts, not much content other than getting in a pissing match with storr. Neutral for now
14. rishaed - Seems to have a post restriction, other than when making votes for someone which is the only time he posts in his own words. For oly posting in quotes, he's said more than a lot of other people. I'm leaning town.


Well, that was productive since I came up with someone I wouldn't have thought of otherwise. The best scum read I have so far is on IB for his lack of content in his posts, just seems to be posting occasionally to post without actually trying to scum hunt or give opinions on any of the cases or anything. So I will vote Iron Butterfly

[NoSurvivors]

I'm starting to think this game is

1) way over my skill level
2) overly confusing for someone who thinks he just got an idea of the basic game
3) way over my skill level

I will go through it all again and see if I can come up with anything tonight

every game is over my skill level. You just gotta act like you know what's going on.

I agree with TG about Storr's double standard. He might be accused of having one every game, but I'm really hesitant about him and mtam's hotgaybumsex pact.

I doubt both are scum but it seems like they're forever protective of each other, which could end up being bad for town if one is scum

Im basically in the same boat you are lol. Fake it till you make it.

And I also find that storr and mtam are strangely protective of each other but I think it's mostly because they want to play with each other and so they dont want the other to be lynched right away, but it kind of gets on my nerves a bit, I wont lie.

[Iron Butterfly]

I'm starting to think this game is

1) way over my skill level
2) overly confusing for someone who thinks he just got an idea of the basic game
3) way over my skill level

I will go through it all again and see if I can come up with anything tonight

Just hang in there, day 1 is always confusing since no-one has anything much to go on, everyone else is almost as lost as you are, we just pretend we can read people lol. (And there I go with the lol again... to whomever mentioned it, if you ever chatted with me, you'd be surprised at how few lol's I use in here... I'm afraid I way overuse it usually, my fingers just seem to type it by default)

Ok, now to go through and see who I can find the most scummy... will have to go through the player list to keep it organized.

Players
1. Storrzerg - Has been going hard so far in day 1, seems to be more like his town self, so I am leaning town on him
2. HotShot53 - Obviously I know I'm town.
3. Iron Butterfly - Hmm... he has posted in here occasionally... but looking back, nothing of substance, it's all generic comments... he tried to bring up the "elephant in the room" of rishead, to cast suspicion on him, but no firm opinions really on him or anyone else... he's been much more active in the other mafia game he's in. I'll have to lean scum for his only activity not adding anything or opinions on anyone
4. WingCmdr Ginkapo - new to mafia on these forums (not sure about experience elsewhere), but seems to be trying and pretty active, will lean town
5. Streaker - has been somewhat active, nothing really stands out about him really... neutral read
6. mtamburini - decided that because I said something sarcastic I was scum, and stuck with it with his usual stubbornness... I did like his comment wondering about IB & streaker, so far they are 2 that I would be wondering about too. His recent posts have moved me to more leaning town rather than just neutral
7. virus90 - has only made 2 posts since his joke vote. He is usually not very active on day 1's, but this is a bit bad... his two posts are decent however... I'll say neutral at this point
8. strike wolf - seems to be pretty active and scum hunting, even if I was one of his early scum reads. I would lean town for him
9. metsfanmax - I don't know if it's just his position about day 1 being almost a waste at voting, or what... some of his posts just rub me the wrong way. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt since it seems to be his normal day 1 position, and give him a neutral reading
10. NoSurvivors - Hasn't made a ton of posts, most of them seem ok... still neutral for now
11. Army of GOD - Same as NoSurvivors, hasn't made a ton of posts, most of them seem ok... still neutral for now
12. TeeGee - inactive, am looking forward to his promised post after going through it all.
13. TA1LGUNN3R - Not many posts, not much content other than getting in a pissing match with storr. Neutral for now
14. rishaed - Seems to have a post restriction, other than when making votes for someone which is the only time he posts in his own words. For oly posting in quotes, he's said more than a lot of other people. I'm leaning town.


Well, that was productive since I came up with someone I wouldn't have thought of otherwise. The best scum read I have so far is on IB for his lack of content in his posts, just seems to be posting occasionally to post without actually trying to scum hunt or give opinions on any of the cases or anything. So I will vote Iron Butterfly

You crack me up. A glorified post count to make it seem you are doing something. The fact you say I tried to "cast suspicion on him" while obvious why I brought it up. If anything metz and I where able to bring a little more insight into something that was in my book being ignored. We actually brought a bit more insight into it.

I am in one other 7 person mafia game so this idea that I am not following some meta. Now the game before that, Mtam had you dead to rights as mafia and we ignored him so you wanna play the Meta game?

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

I'm starting to think this game is

1) way over my skill level
2) overly confusing for someone who thinks he just got an idea of the basic game
3) way over my skill level

I will go through it all again and see if I can come up with anything tonight

Just hang in there, day 1 is always confusing since no-one has anything much to go on, everyone else is almost as lost as you are, we just pretend we can read people lol. (And there I go with the lol again... to whomever mentioned it, if you ever chatted with me, you'd be surprised at how few lol's I use in here... I'm afraid I way overuse it usually, my fingers just seem to type it by default)

Ok, now to go through and see who I can find the most scummy... will have to go through the player list to keep it organized.

Players
1. Storrzerg - Has been going hard so far in day 1, seems to be more like his town self, so I am leaning town on him
2. HotShot53 - Obviously I know I'm town.
3. Iron Butterfly - Hmm... he has posted in here occasionally... but looking back, nothing of substance, it's all generic comments... he tried to bring up the "elephant in the room" of rishead, to cast suspicion on him, but no firm opinions really on him or anyone else... he's been much more active in the other mafia game he's in. I'll have to lean scum for his only activity not adding anything or opinions on anyone
4. WingCmdr Ginkapo - new to mafia on these forums (not sure about experience elsewhere), but seems to be trying and pretty active, will lean town
5. Streaker - has been somewhat active, nothing really stands out about him really... neutral read
6. mtamburini - decided that because I said something sarcastic I was scum, and stuck with it with his usual stubbornness... I did like his comment wondering about IB & streaker, so far they are 2 that I would be wondering about too. His recent posts have moved me to more leaning town rather than just neutral
7. virus90 - has only made 2 posts since his joke vote. He is usually not very active on day 1's, but this is a bit bad... his two posts are decent however... I'll say neutral at this point
8. strike wolf - seems to be pretty active and scum hunting, even if I was one of his early scum reads. I would lean town for him
9. metsfanmax - I don't know if it's just his position about day 1 being almost a waste at voting, or what... some of his posts just rub me the wrong way. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt since it seems to be his normal day 1 position, and give him a neutral reading
10. NoSurvivors - Hasn't made a ton of posts, most of them seem ok... still neutral for now
11. Army of GOD - Same as NoSurvivors, hasn't made a ton of posts, most of them seem ok... still neutral for now
12. TeeGee - inactive, am looking forward to his promised post after going through it all.
13. TA1LGUNN3R - Not many posts, not much content other than getting in a pissing match with storr. Neutral for now
14. rishaed - Seems to have a post restriction, other than when making votes for someone which is the only time he posts in his own words. For oly posting in quotes, he's said more than a lot of other people. I'm leaning town.


Well, that was productive since I came up with someone I wouldn't have thought of otherwise. The best scum read I have so far is on IB for his lack of content in his posts, just seems to be posting occasionally to post without actually trying to scum hunt or give opinions on any of the cases or anything. So I will vote Iron Butterfly

So everyone is neutral or slight town apart from IB? No mafia read or Streaker, NoS or Storr? Thats just odd. I dont see how anyone in this game can not think that at least one of them is mafia.

Unvote Vote Hotshot

I really want to see how he flips now. He's just soft defended my main reads. Though he also seems to have soft defended everyone but IB.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

Looking at my list I wrote yesterday I do also have IB as soft mafia, so he may be onto something, but its not strong enough to be worth a vote on IB imo.

[StorrZerg]

I think its a big possibility that NoS is mafia

jumps on hotshot when it goes to start, then leaps off him to push mets as others push him.

well then, moving on to the day. can agree with wing. Btw, i have wing in the town group, forgot to add him earlier.

Vote hotshot

[Iron Butterfly]

So Hotshot...

You think I am scum. Fine. But if you are Town do you think you have scum on your wagon or do you believe everyone who has voted you so far is Town?