Streaker's F11 Game Over (4/9) MAFIA WIN (archive plz)

[bosaardbeitje]

Honestly, I think it's more interesting to know Tim's role; if he flips town, Bosaard is likely to be scum imo. If he flips scum, PT is likely to be his scumbuddy imo. That's based on their interactions with Tim so far. The problem is I don't want to lynch Tim, as I explained earlier considering his half-claim.

Please explain how I am scum when Tim flips town, so I can get that out of your head.

[aage]

Honestly, I think it's more interesting to know Tim's role; if he flips town, Bosaard is likely to be scum imo. If he flips scum, PT is likely to be his scumbuddy imo. That's based on their interactions with Tim so far. The problem is I don't want to lynch Tim, as I explained earlier considering his half-claim.

Please explain how I am scum when Tim flips town, so I can get that out of your head.

Like I said, it's the way you interact with Tim. You've been protective of him quite early for reasons I don't see. Sometimes it's a scumtell when a player is suddenly defending someone else; the scum knows who is town and who is not, so they know the accused is town. It seems easy to score town points by defending a townie, but sometimes this is a slip because they have no way to tell that the accused townie is town, other than the fact that they KNOW that they are town. A townie doesn't know who is town, and therefore would have no reason to defend the scummy player.
The way you interacted after I proposed the strategy is also a bit sketchy. You said that Tim is suspicious if he is alive tomorrow, if you're scum and he's town you can easily make that happen. This is a bit wifom-y, though.

And yeah, I misread your unvote, I saw my name and assumed you re-voted me. My bad!

[ptlowe]

Honestly, I think it's more interesting to know Tim's role; if he flips town, Bosaard is likely to be scum imo. If he flips scum, PT is likely to be his scumbuddy imo. That's based on their interactions with Tim so far. The problem is I don't want to lynch Tim, as I explained earlier considering his half-claim.

Please explain how I am scum when Tim flips town, so I can get that out of your head.

I dont think I altogether understand it either.

[ptlowe]

Honestly, I think it's more interesting to know Tim's role; if he flips town, Bosaard is likely to be scum imo. If he flips scum, PT is likely to be his scumbuddy imo. That's based on their interactions with Tim so far. The problem is I don't want to lynch Tim, as I explained earlier considering his half-claim.

Please explain how I am scum when Tim flips town, so I can get that out of your head.

Like I said, it's the way you interact with Tim. You've been protective of him quite early for reasons I don't see. Sometimes it's a scumtell when a player is suddenly defending someone else; the scum knows who is town and who is not, so they know the accused is town. It seems easy to score town points by defending a townie, but sometimes this is a slip because they have no way to tell that the accused townie is town, other than the fact that they KNOW that they are town. A townie doesn't know who is town, and therefore would have no reason to defend the scummy player.
The way you interacted after I proposed the strategy is also a bit sketchy. You said that Tim is suspicious if he is alive tomorrow, if you're scum and he's town you can easily make that happen. This is a bit wifom-y, though.

And yeah, I misread your unvote, I saw my name and assumed you re-voted me. My bad!

Makes sense now and good point.

[bosaardbeitje]

Mitch was the one who did not read the set-ups. Tim simply reacted based on what Mitch wrote (and also didn't read the set-ups). At that point I did not suspect him because he was simply responding to what someone else had assumed and written.

Later Tim came up with all those (soft/hard) claims. He is very suspicious to me now. It's only because of your advice that I decided it would be better for the whole Town to leave it up to the scum to make up their mind about Tim and if you are now telling me that you have changed your mind and want to lynch Tim then you're really looking to hurt Town, aren't you?

[TimWoodbury]

Mitch was the one who did not read the set-ups. Tim simply reacted based on what Mitch wrote (and also didn't read the set-ups). At that point I did not suspect him because he was simply responding to what someone else had assumed and written.

Later Tim came up with all those (soft/hard) claims. He is very suspicious to me now. It's only because of your advice that I decided it would be better for the whole Town to leave it up to the scum to make up their mind about Tim and if you are now telling me that you have changed your mind and want to lynch Tim then you're really looking to hurt Town, aren't you?

nah i also saie i didnt even read the set ups to hav noticed it said saine doc and sain cop so i am guilty of not reading it fully

[aage]

Mitch was the one who did not read the set-ups. Tim simply reacted based on what Mitch wrote (and also didn't read the set-ups). At that point I did not suspect him because he was simply responding to what someone else had assumed and written.

Later Tim came up with all those (soft/hard) claims. He is very suspicious to me now. It's only because of your advice that I decided it would be better for the whole Town to leave it up to the scum to make up their mind about Tim and if you are now telling me that you have changed your mind and want to lynch Tim then you're really looking to hurt Town, aren't you?

No, I don't want to lynch Tim. I said that in my earlier post. It's interesting to know his role, but I don't want to lynch him over it. But to be honest, you should actually agree with my read; you think Tim is probably scum, so my reasoning on you being scum if Tim flips town shouldn't matter that much from your point of view.

[bosaardbeitje]

*Offical headache* All misreads matter to me.

[TimWoodbury]

thats aage for yah anyways d1 chances of a mislynch is great dose it matter yes but its gonna happen unles one of the sku outright says they are skum witch i doubt will happen

[ptlowe]

Mitch was the one who did not read the set-ups. Tim simply reacted based on what Mitch wrote (and also didn't read the set-ups). At that point I did not suspect him because he was simply responding to what someone else had assumed and written.

Later Tim came up with all those (soft/hard) claims. He is very suspicious to me now. It's only because of your advice that I decided it would be better for the whole Town to leave it up to the scum to make up their mind about Tim and if you are now telling me that you have changed your mind and want to lynch Tim then you're really looking to hurt Town, aren't you?

No, I don't want to lynch Tim. I said that in my earlier post. It's interesting to know his role, but I don't want to lynch him over it. But to be honest, you should actually agree with my read; you think Tim is probably scum, so my reasoning on you being scum if Tim flips town shouldn't matter that much from your point of view.

These are not the droids you are looking for.

lol, sorry had to do it

fpd Tim

[bosaardbeitje]

Here's what I think. I asked for advice from experienced players. You tell us not to lynch Tim. I decide to listen but want to lynch him day 2 anyway, if he is unable to do Town any good, PR or no PR. And now you start accusing me while most of the players read me as Town. Are you scared that I will follow through and Tim will be lynched? Have you given me wrong advice on purpose because you knew the noob would probably listen?

[madmitch]

@ bosaard now who's whining? lol

[TimWoodbury]

Here's what I think. I asked for advice from experienced players. You tell us not to lynch Tim. I decide to listen but want to lynch him day 2 anyway, if he is unable to do Town any good, PR or no PR. And now you start accusing me while most of the players read me as Town. Are you scared that I will follow through and Tim will be lynched? Have you given me wrong advice on purpose because you knew the noob would probably listen?

note for future reerance thikn or oneself dont play follow the leader works out better i think

[ptlowe]

Here's what I think. I asked for advice from experienced players. You tell us not to lynch Tim. I decide to listen but want to lynch him day 2 anyway, if he is unable to do Town any good, PR or no PR. And now you start accusing me while most of the players read me as Town. Are you scared that I will follow through and Tim will be lynched? Have you given me wrong advice on purpose because you knew the noob would probably listen?

note for future reerance thikn or oneself dont play follow the leader works out better i think

I think she is picking it up wayyy better than I did my first game. I also dont think shes playing follow the leader.

[TimWoodbury]

she did origonally play follow the leader she asked more or less what to do got told she did it, however now shes playing alot better and heck shes doing better then i did in my 1st game and heck doing better then i am here

[bosaardbeitje]

That's very nice from both of you but sweet talk will not keep/get you of my suspect list. If you really mean it tell me when the game is over.

[aage]

Here's what I think. I asked for advice from experienced players. You tell us not to lynch Tim. I decide to listen but want to lynch him day 2 anyway, if he is unable to do Town any good, PR or no PR. And now you start accusing me while most of the players read me as Town. Are you scared that I will follow through and Tim will be lynched? Have you given me wrong advice on purpose because you knew the noob would probably listen?

I don't think I gave the wrong advice. Leaving Tim's situation alone for now would be the best play, I believe. You didn't leave it alone though. Especially this statement rubbed me wrong:

Tim, I am willing to let you live another day to see what your great powers will do during the night, and it better be good, or else you are next!

The point I was trying to make in my elaboration on the Tim situation was that it doesn't matter to us whether Tim claims cop or not. As town, we shouldn't care if he has powers or not - we should only care about whether he is scum or not. Mitch made a similar post earlier that made me suspicious, where he half-accused Tim of being Mafia roleblocker.

Right now, there are only two situations: the mafia knows that there is a cop, because they have a roleblocker; or the mafia doesn't know whether there is a cop, because they don't have a roleblocker. I believe that whether Tim is scum or not is more safely determined by waiting for the cop to die. This sounds morbid but it makes sense. If Tim fake-claimed cop, there's a reasonable chance that there is another cop. The mafia will want to nightkill that cop; if they don't have a roleblocker, they know there is no doc so they can kill anyone they like.
Therefore Tim acts as a sort of hostage for the mafia killing the cop - if there is a cop in the game and Tim is lying, he will eventually be outed as a liar because the real cop will die, so there is no need to lynch him. If Tim is the real cop, we especially don't want to lynch him.
If Tim is not the real cop and the setup doesn't have a cop, he just took a huge gamble. Knowing Tim a little, we'll eventually catch him if he is mafia, though.

The point of all this is that, right now, it doesn't matter if he is the real cop or not. Making statements about whether he is the cop or not, and/or threatening him with repercussions if he does not yield the desired results, will only serve to pressure him which may lead to him making more claims (soft or not) about his role. As per the reasoning above, that works against town, because to the town it shouldn't matter if he is VT or cop, as long as he is town... but to scum, it's very important to know whether he is the cop or not.

This all assumes that there is a possibility that he is VT exaggerating his role or playing a gambit, which I believe is possible. The point is it that doesn't matter to the town what his role is, only his alignment matters. You were making statements and threats concerning his role - that's what I found suspicious. If he is scum, you're in the clear. If he is town, though, I'll definitely want to make a case on you.

[aage]

Here's what I think. I asked for advice from experienced players. You tell us not to lynch Tim. I decide to listen but want to lynch him day 2 anyway, if he is unable to do Town any good, PR or no PR. And now you start accusing me while most of the players read me as Town. Are you scared that I will follow through and Tim will be lynched? Have you given me wrong advice on purpose because you knew the noob would probably listen?

I don't think I gave the wrong advice. Leaving Tim's situation alone for now would be the best play, I believe. You didn't leave it alone though. Especially this statement rubbed me wrong:

Tim, I am willing to let you live another day to see what your great powers will do during the night, and it better be good, or else you are next!

The point I was trying to make in my elaboration on the Tim situation was that it doesn't matter to us whether Tim claims cop or not. As town, we shouldn't care if he has powers or not - we should only care about whether he is scum or not. Mitch made a similar post earlier that made me suspicious, where he half-accused Tim of being Mafia roleblocker.

Right now, there are only two situations: the mafia knows that there is a cop, because they have a roleblocker; or the mafia doesn't know whether there is a cop, because they don't have a roleblocker. I believe that whether Tim is scum or not is more safely determined by waiting for the cop to die. This sounds morbid but it makes sense. If Tim fake-claimed cop, there's a reasonable chance that there is another cop. The mafia will want to nightkill that cop; if they don't have a roleblocker, they know there is no doc so they can kill anyone they like.
Therefore Tim acts as a sort of hostage for the mafia killing the cop - if there is a cop in the game and Tim is lying, he will eventually be outed as a liar because the real cop will die, so there is no need to lynch him. If Tim is the real cop, we especially don't want to lynch him.
If Tim is not the real cop and the setup doesn't have a cop, he just took a huge gamble. Knowing Tim a little, we'll eventually catch him if he is mafia, though.

The point of all this is that, right now, it doesn't matter if he is the real cop or not. Making statements about whether he is the cop or not, and/or threatening him with repercussions if he does not yield the desired results, will only serve to pressure him which may lead to him making more claims (soft or not) about his role. As per the reasoning above, that works against town, because to the town it shouldn't matter if he is VT or cop, as long as he is town... but to scum, it's very important to know whether he is the cop or not.

This all assumes that there is a possibility that he is VT exaggerating his role or playing a gambit, which I believe is possible. The point is it that doesn't matter to the town what his role is, only his alignment matters. You were making statements and threats concerning his role - that's what I found suspicious. If he is scum, you're in the clear. If he is town, though, I'll definitely want to make a case on you.

ebwop

And the reason why town doesn't care about Tim's role right now is because, if he is cop, he doesn't have any results anyway, so it doesn't give us valuable information. It matters to the scum because they want to prevent the cop from gaining information.

[ptlowe]

Good points and all but how do we know there is no doc? I dont think Tim claimed which PR role. Just one of them which opens cop or doc. There is a possibility both are in this game together. This could be a game without a cop...Just food for thought.

[ptlowe]

or he could be lieing altogether and there are no PR roles...hmmm...Yeah I agree no reason to pressure hard claim.

[bosaardbeitje]

Knowing Tim a little, we'll eventually catch him if he is mafia, though.

Suuuuuuuuuuure, when? On the final day?

If he is the cop and gets killed we know he spoke the truth.
If he is the cop and doesn't get killed he should be very helpful on day 2.
If he is not the cop and gets killed we know he sacrificed.
If he is not the cop and lives another day a mislynch is not good but better than mislynching a PR.
If he is Mafia, he will live another day and a lynch would be perfect.

And something similar applies to Doc. I really don't see any reasons to keep him here longer than day 2.

[TimWoodbury]

im shure i wont make it to d2 with my luk

[aage]

Alright bosaard, let's for a moment assume your take on the situation is better for town. What does your remark about Tim's greater powers achieve, from a townie's perspective?


The same does not apply to doc btw, since that role isnt guaranteed a result. The doc only has information if he successfully heals someone, the cop always has information. Therefore it's in our benefit to wait with the cop discussion, it'll be more relevant after the first night.

[madmitch]

Knowing Tim a little, we'll eventually catch him if he is mafia, though.

Suuuuuuuuuuure, when? On the final day?

If he is the cop and gets killed we know he spoke the truth.
If he is the cop and doesn't get killed he should be very helpful on day 2.
If he is not the cop and gets killed we know he sacrificed.
If he is not the cop and lives another day a mislynch is not good but better than mislynching a PR.
If he is Mafia, he will live another day and a lynch would be perfect.

And something similar applies to Doc. I really don't see any reasons to keep him here longer than day 2.

make sense to me UNVOTE LET HIM LIVE ANOTHER AND INVESTIGATE THAT NIGHT,he can look at me if he wants I am not worried

[madmitch]

ebwop live another day