[Endgame] Firefly Mafia

[mandalorian2298]

I am well chastised for my inactivity, but all of you who are still in POTC know why I have been more active there then in other Mafias I am playing in. Also, I have been a bit addicted to PES 2011 and I have been feeling pretty crappy the rest of the time. Finally, I know this may not be cool, but Day 1 is pretty much the most boring part of the game, once the greetings have been said. I hardly expect that I will have better target then Streaker during it, but come Day 2, there will be some facts on the table to work with.

[VioIet]

I agree that naxus is acting quite scummy, and not holding up well under pressure.vote naxus


However vio provides a very interesting case, trying to defend naxus subtly.

It does look like Naxus tried to prove his town status and jumped at the opportunity.

Regardless strike wasn't in any danger, and neither did sheeps vote put him in any. It would've been nice if the joke votes continued, but I guess we're through on the other side now.

For someone who says that the joke vote stage was so much fun, you surely weren't an active participant in it. I just re-read the whole thread, and I didn't see any joke votes that popped out at me- that were composed by you. And I didn't even think the joke vote stage in this game was funny. I think you are normally a very articulate player. If you truly meant that you were just going to miss the joke vote phase, because you thought it was so hilarious- i think you would have phrased the wording in your post better. Fir called you out on it first, and saf said it was miscommunication- but i don't think so.

And FOS Sheep, because I think he probably lost count and thought that he hammered.

And yes i realize it sounds like I'm rambling a bit- but its late at night, and I'm operating on about 5 hours sleep. So my apologies if I'm incoherent. Hopefully you get the gist of what I'm trying to say.

And before I forgot.
Unvote
Vote Illiad

The moment I talked about nax and his scumminess she concorts a rather weird attack. I only made one joke vote, and not zero as she implied, and I said that the joke vote stage is fun but she disagrees so that apparently means I'm scum.
Then this happens. Streaker also applies pressure against nax:

I agree with naxus. Day 1 lynches are part random, because of the lack of evidence. You seem to use this as the main reason not to lynch you. The discussion with Fir isn't doing you much good either.

Lynching naxus is as good random as any other, even better. He's acting must scummy, and real evidence is hard to find Day 1.

I'll hold off voting until I see the VC though.

Hmm, it is just me, or do I detect some holes in this post?


So first you are saying that you agree with Naxuxs' but then you say that you want to lynch him. You say he is acting scummy for posing an argument you agree with. Perhaps I just misunderstood your post, but those are the thoughts i gathered after first reading it.

She tries to back off and not sound agressive, but it's still quite obvious how she' trying to push the attention onto streaker.

Ok my vote on sheep was not me trying to get him lynched, I just threw a vote out there because he was a tad scummy. I havn't built a case against someone who has only really jokevoted and hasn't posted since saturday

It doesn't really matter what this Day 1 lynch comes from as long as we can extract infos from it.

Thats what i'm saying.

Naxus, sorry if I am making you repeat it- but I would like to know your thoughts about sheep's scumminess. Perhaps you can make a case about him.

I thought sheep was quite scummy also, and everyone seems to have overlooked him. And I am almost positive that sheep thought he hammered. He was just very very eager there.

That to me, seems like a "subtle" push at waht she wants her scummate to do to push away attention.

Do you really think that an experienced player would hammer someone before any discussion on day 1? That player would be lynched day 2, if they weren't offed by the vig in the night.

I'll go through the thread to check some of her other posts, but it seems pretty clear that anyone who talks about naxus will get some strong heat from Vio. And what the games I've seen her play, vio definitely hasn't mastered being able to play with a partner and keep it cool.

In other news, the activity is flaggin quite a bit and it's dissapointing.

Well, this certainly is an interesting post from Illiad. I especially seem to like how he accuses me of trying to vote/suspect/criticize/whatever half the people in this game. Statistically wise, the majority would be townies. I suppose it is his way of trying to frame me as scum. But wouldn't it be safer for scum not to attack townies? Wouldn't it be more townish behavior- as we don't know anyone's roles. Only scum do.

It is Day one, and I was just trying to promote discussion and point out suspicious things that I noticed from various players. For the record, I didn't say anything about Naxus.
You have been the one to vote Naxus, and then mention streaker, soundman, and Fircoal as well. Lots of wagon behavior there. Seems quite scummy to me, and i wonder why others have not yet caught on, and insist on targeting naxus and soundman. This just seems a little bold and aggressive to me, and if you are an important town role, i would certainly be more careful with hoping on all these different wagons. I think this warrants my current suspicions and votes on you.

I will keep my vote on Illiad until I have a reason to take it off.

And Sheep, you totally wanted to HAMMER!! I just know it!!!

Commander, I highly doubt that Fir is a lyncher, because i think he would be much more subtle than that. In fact- just doing some meta-gaming- lately he has been a very subtle scum. And I've been picking on Fir so much lately, that maybe i should lay off for one game, and state that he doesn't seem like scum in this one. I am betting him to be maybe SK or Cult recruiter instead.

I just looked at the vote count and the player list that Fir provided. I had forgotten that the game was so large, and that campin was in the game. I would hate for him to be replaced, so perhaps a prod will do.

[safariguy5]

16 players is a bit small for cult recruiter. Although I have not watched Firefly or Serenity, so I don't know whether there is a cult faction there.

[strike wolf]

Cult is unlikely (though I guess one could make an argument for the reavers). No role really fits. Though the show definitely has the potential of several win conditions.

Jayne as lyncher seems a bit far fetched to me. I think there are other roles that fit better for him a couple have already been interested and the others who were looking for him were always more interested in retrieving his psychotic mind reading sister.

[Commander9]

As few others stated, I don't really see any possibilities for such a role in such a game. The only remote possibility I can see would be reavers, but I highly doubt that.

Cult is unlikely (though I guess one could make an argument for the reavers). No role really fits. Though the show definitely has the potential of several win conditions.

Jayne as lyncher seems a bit far fetched to me. I think there are other roles that fit better for him a couple have already been interested and the others who were looking for him were always more interested in retrieving his psychotic mind reading sister.

I was just throwing a suggestion. As far as Jayne goes - his alignment is very ambiguous. That's one role that I'd definitely would not turn my back on.

[Anarkistsdream]

While I am very glad Fircoal made such a long post, I also think it actually makes him look more scummy by using circular logic and double-speak.

As for my hopping on the bandwagon for it, hell yeah... Anybody that vote's second or third can't be construed as "hopping on the bandwagon." It is just a vote made from stable cases. Having never seen the show or movie version, I have little to base any accusations on, and as some people have more knowledge, I am more inclined to believe them.

[Fircoal]

While I am very glad Fircoal made such a long post, I also think it actually makes him look more scummy by using circular logic and double-speak.

What circular logic?

And what is double-speak?

[Iliad]

Well, this certainly is an interesting post from Illiad. I especially seem to like how he accuses me of trying to vote/suspect/criticize/whatever half the people in this game. Statistically wise, the majority would be townies. I suppose it is his way of trying to frame me as scum. But wouldn't it be safer for scum not to attack townies? Wouldn't it be more townish behavior- as we don't know anyone's roles. Only scum do.

Here you not only showed that you either didn't get my post against you, or you are pretending not and twisting my words, and you contradict yourself. My post showed that while naxus's case was still growing, anyone who posted something negative on nax not even going to the lengths of voting yet, would get attacked by you and put on the defensive. You were very keen on defending nax and smothering his case while it was still growing, and don't go all WIFOM.

However your case rested on whether nax was mafia, and it seems quite unlikely. Unvote

It is Day one, and I was just trying to promote discussion and point out suspicious things that I noticed from various players. For the record, I didn't say anything about Naxus.
You have been the one to vote Naxus, and then mention streaker, soundman, and Fircoal as well. Lots of wagon behavior there. Seems quite scummy to me, and i wonder why others have not yet caught on, and insist on targeting naxus and soundman. This just seems a little bold and aggressive to me, and if you are an important town role, i would certainly be more careful with hoping on all these different wagons. I think this warrants my current suspicions and votes on you.

Did you read my post at all? No you didn't outright state how good and righteous nax is, but you did attack anyone who say pointed out the scumtells that appeared. Quite exclusively people who went against nax.

Vio when you are building cases,s do build on them on truth, and not a outright lie. I let the first one slide in the first post against me, but that's ridiculous. Show me a post where I hopped on either soundmans', fircoal's or streakers's bandwagon or been wagon hopping. I don't know if this is a case of skimming, confusing me with someone else, cconfusing this game with commander's game but I cannot comprehend how you can try and claim that I've been hopping on 3 other wagons when I haven't been on one of them.

[naxus]

I apologize for acting scummy but the absurdity of the town doctor being killed Day 1 for basically nothing was running through my mind the entire time I was being grilled.

Vote chu because I claimed and he's still on me while no counterclaim has appeared. And for seeming to be heavily pushing against me.

[Fircoal]

I apologize for acting scummy but the absurdity of the town doctor being killed Day 1 for basically nothing was running through my mind the entire time I was being grilled.

Vote chu because I claimed and he's still on me while no counterclaim has appeared. And for seeming to be heavily pushing against me.

I'm not still on you. I'm onto Naggy now. Did you just skim over my big long post?

[soundman]

Well, this certainly is an interesting post from Illiad. I especially seem to like how he accuses me of trying to vote/suspect/criticize/whatever half the people in this game. Statistically wise, the majority would be townies. I suppose it is his way of trying to frame me as scum. But wouldn't it be safer for scum not to attack townies? Wouldn't it be more townish behavior- as we don't know anyone's roles. Only scum do.

Here you not only showed that you either didn't get my post against you, or you are pretending not and twisting my words, and you contradict yourself. My post showed that while naxus's case was still growing, anyone who posted something negative on nax not even going to the lengths of voting yet, would get attacked by you and put on the defensive. You were very keen on defending nax and smothering his case while it was still growing, and don't go all WIFOM.

However your case rested on whether nax was mafia, and it seems quite unlikely. Unvote

It is Day one, and I was just trying to promote discussion and point out suspicious things that I noticed from various players. For the record, I didn't say anything about Naxus.
You have been the one to vote Naxus, and then mention streaker, soundman, and Fircoal as well. Lots of wagon behavior there. Seems quite scummy to me, and i wonder why others have not yet caught on, and insist on targeting naxus and soundman. This just seems a little bold and aggressive to me, and if you are an important town role, i would certainly be more careful with hoping on all these different wagons. I think this warrants my current suspicions and votes on you.

Did you read my post at all? No you didn't outright state how good and righteous nax is, but you did attack anyone who say pointed out the scumtells that appeared. Quite exclusively people who went against nax.

Vio when you are building cases,s do build on them on truth, and not a outright lie. I let the first one slide in the first post against me, but that's ridiculous. Show me a post where I hopped on either soundmans', fircoal's or streakers's bandwagon or been wagon hopping. I don't know if this is a case of skimming, confusing me with someone else, cconfusing this game with commander's game but I cannot comprehend how you can try and claim that I've been hopping on 3 other wagons when I haven't been on one of them.

Looked back over the posts. After Iliad voted for naxus he didn't make another post until now. So your statement Vio is incorrect.

Oh and Unvote. Don't want to lynch a doctor.

[ShaggyDan]

Wow, I got some reading to do.

Unvote soundman, I made it as I thought it would be the next best case after Naxus.

Don't want to make to much of a post off just skimming, but some random thoughts of mine:
- I believe Naxus' claim of doctor is real, and he's reasoning of acting scummy valid.
- Off first skim I don't think Fir is very scummy. I can see his reasoning for continual pressure on confirmed doc, seems to be actively scum-hunting.
- Jerado looks pretty sucumarining atm. Hasn't posted much except for joining a wagon.

As much as I love big walls of text, I don't really have time atm to go over it properly and come up with much substance. Will try and get through it by tomorrow. Any chance of getting a votecount / deadline?

[nagerous]

Wow, I got some reading to do.

Unvote soundman, I made it as I thought it would be the next best case after Naxus.

Don't want to make to much of a post off just skimming, but some random thoughts of mine:
- I believe Naxus' claim of doctor is real, and he's reasoning of acting scummy valid.
- Off first skim I don't think Fir is very scummy. I can see his reasoning for continual pressure on confirmed doc, seems to be actively scum-hunting.
- Jerado looks pretty sucumarining atm. Hasn't posted much except for joining a wagon.

As much as I love big walls of text, I don't really have time atm to go over it properly and come up with much substance. Will try and get through it by tomorrow. Any chance of getting a votecount / deadline?

Why don't you think Fircoal is very scummy? There is no reason for his continual pressure on the confirmed doctor and him trying to get others to lynch him and eliminate him.. that was ridiculously scummy and not play by someone who is actively scum hunting. Also, the only reason he is on me now is because I've called him out on his actions so it is straight out omgus votes. Noob scum buddy defence much?

[Fircoal]

Wow, I got some reading to do.

Unvote soundman, I made it as I thought it would be the next best case after Naxus.

Don't want to make to much of a post off just skimming, but some random thoughts of mine:
- I believe Naxus' claim of doctor is real, and he's reasoning of acting scummy valid.
- Off first skim I don't think Fir is very scummy. I can see his reasoning for continual pressure on confirmed doc, seems to be actively scum-hunting.
- Jerado looks pretty sucumarining atm. Hasn't posted much except for joining a wagon.

As much as I love big walls of text, I don't really have time atm to go over it properly and come up with much substance. Will try and get through it by tomorrow. Any chance of getting a votecount / deadline?

Why don't you think Fircoal is very scummy? There is no reason for his continual pressure on the confirmed doctor and him trying to get others to lynch him and eliminate him.. that was ridiculously scummy and not play by someone who is actively scum hunting. Also, the only reason he is on me now is because I've called him out on his actions so it is straight out omgus votes. Noob scum buddy defence much?

Naggy you make me laugh. You're calling someone how just because they think that I don't look scummy? It's nawt like I'm playing like Naxus. You're trying to overstate my actions here. Yea I pressured Naxus, but for very good reason. He was acting extremely scummy, it's not like I couldn't help it with all of the scum tells he was dropping. I am actively scum hunting, much more than you and most of the town. I just made a big post over there putting out some suspicions on a bunch of people while you just regurgitate one-liners over and over again. If you looked at my post you'd notice the fact that you're voting me isn't the only reason that I'm voting you. You can call OMGUS when someone just gives a little one liner and a retractory vote that doesn't have much on it. I believe I've stated my case.

[Fircoal]

Top 3 Reasons Naggy Wants Me Dead
1. I'm one of the most experienced players. The experienced players are usually going to be the ones leading the discussion and coming up with most of the leads. If you're the only experienced play left you're going to have a nice advantage over the town. Considering I'm one of these players, and so is Naggy, he realizes that once he's gone with me it'll be easier for him to twist the town into doing what he wants to.
2. It's easy. With my push on Naxus it's easy to go. "HE WAS PUSHING ON THE DOCTOR HE MUST BE SCUM!!!!" Of course when you look at this argument it really doesn't make much sense. Sure it might be a pile of WIFOM but do you really think any scum would be risking all these votes just to do some WIFOM. Yes that's even more WIFOM. WIFOM aside I can't see what good reason one would have for doing that if they were scum, since you all think that I'm scum that that's why you please tell me these good reasons. (Wanting to lynch the doctor is not a valid case as the pressure was already going away from him. By the time I posted that lynch was 99% not going to happen without a counterclaim)
3.I'm Town. Yes any time that a scum can off a town it's a good thing. No loses for the scum and they get off pressure free.

[nagerous]

It is though unless you count the reason why I didn't vote soundman and instead HFOSed him, at that point the pressure was on naxus so I wasn't going to sidetrack with another bandwagon when naxus was being pressured. There is no case on me, you're just responding to aggression with aggression, all in all you're playing extremely badly in this game whether town or scum but with the amount of scumtells you've dropped my vote remains firmly fixed on you.

[Fircoal]

It is though unless you count the reason why I didn't vote soundman and instead HFOSed him, at that point the pressure was on naxus so I wasn't going to sidetrack with another bandwagon when naxus was being pressured. There is no case on me, you're just responding to aggression with aggression, all in all you're playing extremely badly in this game whether town or scum but with the amount of scumtells you've dropped my vote remains firmly fixed on you.

What scumtells? Trying to find who the scum are? Pursuing scummy statements? Voting scum? Nice scumtells there.

[nagerous]

It is though unless you count the reason why I didn't vote soundman and instead HFOSed him, at that point the pressure was on naxus so I wasn't going to sidetrack with another bandwagon when naxus was being pressured. There is no case on me, you're just responding to aggression with aggression, all in all you're playing extremely badly in this game whether town or scum but with the amount of scumtells you've dropped my vote remains firmly fixed on you.

What scumtells? Trying to find who the scum are? Pursuing scummy statements? Voting scum? Nice scumtells there.

So far I haven't seen where you've voted scum? All I've seen is you pursuing a doctor claim militantly and when I call you up on this your only response is some bullshit retalitory case against me with no grounds whatsoever.

[Fircoal]

Top 3 Reasons Naggy Wants Me Dead
1. I'm one of the most experienced players. The experienced players are usually going to be the ones leading the discussion and coming up with most of the leads. If you're the only experienced play left you're going to have a nice advantage over the town. Considering I'm one of these players, and so is Naggy, he realizes that once he's gone with me it'll be easier for him to twist the town into doing what he wants to.
2. It's easy. With my push on Naxus it's easy to go. "HE WAS PUSHING ON THE DOCTOR HE MUST BE SCUM!!!!" Of course when you look at this argument it really doesn't make much sense. Sure it might be a pile of WIFOM but do you really think any scum would be risking all these votes just to do some WIFOM. Yes that's even more WIFOM. WIFOM aside I can't see what good reason one would have for doing that if they were scum, since you all think that I'm scum that that's why you please tell me these good reasons. (Wanting to lynch the doctor is not a valid case as the pressure was already going away from him. By the time I posted that lynch was 99% not going to happen without a counterclaim)
3.I'm Town. Yes any time that a scum can off a town it's a good thing. No loses for the scum and they get off pressure free.

Oh and I'm active. I forgot about that one! (Look at post number chart in my big post)

[nagerous]

That's just such a crap argument.

I could say exactly the same things to you as to why you want me dead:
1) I'm experienced
2) I'm active
3) I've cottoned on to the fact that you are scum and therefore you're pushing hard with a very weak but extremely exciteable retailtory argument

[Fircoal]

It is though unless you count the reason why I didn't vote soundman and instead HFOSed him, at that point the pressure was on naxus so I wasn't going to sidetrack with another bandwagon when naxus was being pressured. There is no case on me, you're just responding to aggression with aggression, all in all you're playing extremely badly in this game whether town or scum but with the amount of scumtells you've dropped my vote remains firmly fixed on you.

What scumtells? Trying to find who the scum are? Pursuing scummy statements? Voting scum? Nice scumtells there.

So far I haven't seen where you've voted scum? All I've seen is you pursuing a doctor claim militantly and when I call you up on this your only response is some bullshit retalitory case against me with no grounds whatsoever.

It has more grounds than your case does. I haven't pursued him militantly, I just wouldn't drop the idea that he's scummeh. I'm not trying to convince anyone else. I just was not convinced myself. However since there's no counterclaim I'm getting this sad feeling that he's actually the doctor. >w>

[Fircoal]

That's just such a crap argument.

I could say exactly the same things to you as to why you want me dead:
1) I'm experienced
2) I'm active
3) I've cottoned on to the fact that you are scum and therefore you're pushing hard with a very weak but extremely exciteable retailtory argument

But are you easy? No. I mean is the time right to hit you? Yes were I scum and you were town of course I'd want you dead. But I think I'd wait until the time is right for that. This wouldn't be teh time.

[strike wolf]

Top 3 Reasons Naggy Wants Me Dead
1. I'm one of the most experienced players. The experienced players are usually going to be the ones leading the discussion and coming up with most of the leads. If you're the only experienced play left you're going to have a nice advantage over the town. Considering I'm one of these players, and so is Naggy, he realizes that once he's gone with me it'll be easier for him to twist the town into doing what he wants to.
2. It's easy. With my push on Naxus it's easy to go. "HE WAS PUSHING ON THE DOCTOR HE MUST BE SCUM!!!!" Of course when you look at this argument it really doesn't make much sense. Sure it might be a pile of WIFOM but do you really think any scum would be risking all these votes just to do some WIFOM. Yes that's even more WIFOM. WIFOM aside I can't see what good reason one would have for doing that if they were scum, since you all think that I'm scum that that's why you please tell me these good reasons. (Wanting to lynch the doctor is not a valid case as the pressure was already going away from him. By the time I posted that lynch was 99% not going to happen without a counterclaim)
3.I'm Town. Yes any time that a scum can off a town it's a good thing. No loses for the scum and they get off pressure free.

Oh and I'm active. I forgot about that one! (Look at post number chart in my big post)

Your activity defense is blatant bs. You mention activity like it is the god given irrefutable evidence of towniness and in the POTC game when you were town you excused inactivity/lurking as not being necessarily a scum tactic. Either way you are trying pretty hard to push your "activity" as a solid defense when it is not there. As far as your reasons you listed for why nag wants you dead. This is more you painting nag as scum in my eyes than legitimately defending yourself from accusations.

[Fircoal]

Top 3 Reasons Naggy Wants Me Dead
1. I'm one of the most experienced players. The experienced players are usually going to be the ones leading the discussion and coming up with most of the leads. If you're the only experienced play left you're going to have a nice advantage over the town. Considering I'm one of these players, and so is Naggy, he realizes that once he's gone with me it'll be easier for him to twist the town into doing what he wants to.
2. It's easy. With my push on Naxus it's easy to go. "HE WAS PUSHING ON THE DOCTOR HE MUST BE SCUM!!!!" Of course when you look at this argument it really doesn't make much sense. Sure it might be a pile of WIFOM but do you really think any scum would be risking all these votes just to do some WIFOM. Yes that's even more WIFOM. WIFOM aside I can't see what good reason one would have for doing that if they were scum, since you all think that I'm scum that that's why you please tell me these good reasons. (Wanting to lynch the doctor is not a valid case as the pressure was already going away from him. By the time I posted that lynch was 99% not going to happen without a counterclaim)
3.I'm Town. Yes any time that a scum can off a town it's a good thing. No loses for the scum and they get off pressure free.

Oh and I'm active. I forgot about that one! (Look at post number chart in my big post)

Your activity defense is blatant bs. You mention activity like it is the god given irrefutable evidence of towniness and in the POTC game when you were town you excused inactivity/lurking as not being necessarily a scum tactic. Either way you are trying pretty hard to push your "activity" as a solid defense when it is not there. As far as your reasons you listed for why nag wants you dead. This is more you painting nag as scum in my eyes than legitimately defending yourself from accusations.

I'm not saying that activity = townieness, but active players are good for the survival of the game. Thusly it's a nice thing for the scum if they can kill off the active players that aren't scum, leaving only active scum to direct the lynch.

[Fircoal]

And this is where the Naxus case started:

To shamelessly bandwagon?

Vote Strike

Unvote vote sheep, that vote is a little unjokey for me

That vote was a complete joke.

Unvote Vote Naxus


HEY GUYS I FOUND OUR DAY 1 LYNCH!

Sigh, was just saying that ive seen it happen before. Didn't mean for a whole discussion to be based off of it

So you're saying discussion is a bad thing? Cause it sounds like you're upset about it.

Now don't twist my words fir. Discussion is great but day one discussion is usually useless cause it ends up a blind lynch anyway.

So you're saying that we shouldn't discuss at all day 1? Gee I wonder how much info we could get from that. :3

I'll go ahead and unvote sheep but I want to hear naxus' answer to this before I come to a decision on this wagon.

Im not saying we shouldn't discuss day but that in 9/10s of all mafia games, the day one lynch is random. Only real good lynches happen off of a newbie slip up D1. And fir is screwing with me and its not funny

So just because D1 is usually random we should continue to make it random? You don't even wanna try to make a D1 based off of facts. Also you again fail to note the effect that it has on the later game. Try again.

Im not saying we shouldn't discuss day but that in 9/10s of all mafia games, the day one lynch is random. Only real good lynches happen off of a newbie slip up D1. And fir is screwing with me and its not funny

So just because D1 is usually random we should continue to make it random? You don't even wanna try to make a D1 based off of facts. Also you again fail to note the effect that it has on the later game. Try again.

I never said that it didn't affect late game, I just said the lynch is random. Trying to really build a case on the usual D1 stuff that happens is flimsy at best. Also what facts are you referring too?

@strike I appreciate the irony in that statement but it still sucks

You don't get what I'm saying. Ok let's say that we decide to pick a random lynch. Everyone goes along with it and the person's role is X. How much info have we gained? Not much. Now let's say that A and B are trying really hard to get C lynched, but D is trying to lynch the submariner E. F and G aren't even around, and H, I and J seem to be dominating the conversation all thinking each other are scummy. No matter who is lynched it'll give us quite a bit information on the others based on where they place themselves, who they align with, what they try to do. It doesn't really matter what this Day 1 lynch comes from as long as we can extract infos from it. By facts I mean the scum tells that pop up. The things that make you seem scummier than me for example. You seem to want to ignore them and just go with random.

Oh and if you think that D1 is just gonna be random no matter what, then why are you trying to get sheep lynched. Surely you're not going to find any "significant" tells on him so why even bother. I mean it's gonna be random in the end right?

Now don't twist my words fir. Discussion is great but day one discussion is usually useless cause it ends up a blind lynch anyway.

That to me sounded unusual for naxus, I don't remember him being this strong on language. Aggressive sounding post to me. I'm still with fircoal on this one, if nothing else, the naxus wagon has begun delineating some of the different sides that people are on. However, naxus seems really uncomfortable in this position, something that townies usually don't react to quite as defensively.

Vio, I agree with Naxus on the part where he says day 1 lynches are at least part random. There is little to go on, so guessing is involved. What strikes me about naxus is how he literally states DAY 1DISCUSSION IS USELESS

safari sums it up nicely right here:

Now don't twist my words fir. Discussion is great but day one discussion is usually useless cause it ends up a blind lynch anyway.

That to me sounded unusual for naxus, I don't remember him being this strong on language. Aggressive sounding post to me. I'm still with fircoal on this one, if nothing else, the naxus wagon has begun delineating some of the different sides that people are on. However, naxus seems really uncomfortable in this position, something that townies usually don't react to quite as defensively.

Also, this post has a few things about it:

Ok my vote on sheep was not me trying to get him lynched, I just threw a vote out there because he was a tad scummy. I havn't built a case against someone who has only really jokevoted and hasn't posted since saturday

It doesn't really matter what this Day 1 lynch comes from as long as we can extract infos from it.

Thats what i'm saying.

First, naxus says his vote on sheep was not with the intent to lynch. Next, he says he thinks sheep acted scummy. Anyone else see the contradiction?

What you ARE saying, is that you don't seem to like discussion right now. Where will we get the extract infos from then?

Joke voting someone is fine, but jokevoting someone to L-3 or L-4 is a little to far. Ive seen a couple games where joke voting allowed the mafia to speed hammer someone

If I put streaker at L-2 or L-1 I could see this being a valid argument. However, for three scum to out themselves for a quick day 1 lynch is stretching it quite a bit.

Sigh, was just saying that ive seen it happen before. Didn't mean for a whole discussion to be based off of it

So you're saying discussion is a bad thing? Cause it sounds like you're upset about it.

Now don't twist my words fir. Discussion is great but day one discussion is usually useless cause it ends up a blind lynch anyway.

You offer a thought for conversation but when you get criticized for it you do a complete 180 trying to distance yourself from an unfavorable opinion. I stand by the fact that I made a joke vote. It made some people laugh which means mission accomplished. Day 1 lynches don't have to end in a blind lynch. People can garner a lot from the reaction to pressure. You seem want to prove that you're pro-town but stay out of the spotlight.

Im not saying we shouldn't discuss day but that in 9/10s of all mafia games, the day one lynch is random. Only real good lynches happen off of a newbie slip up D1. And fir is screwing with me and its not funny

You must not be playing with good players then. A good player would use discussion and pressure to find scum. Not rely on power roles to do that for him. A D1 newbie lynch is seldom a good lynch. Newbs tend to make scum tells regardless of affiliation. Easy lynches come from newbies. Fir's "screwing" with you is one of the ways people build cases. Learn to handle it. Most of my case has been derived from your conversation with chu.

I never said that it didn't affect late game, I just said the lynch is random. Trying to really build a case on the usual D1 stuff that happens is flimsy at best.

No you didn't but that's the consequence of a random D1 lynch if there's no pressure and no discussion. A good player can take D1 discussion and make a very solid case.

It doesn't really matter what this Day 1 lynch comes from as long as we can extract infos from it.

Thats what i'm saying.

That is not what you have been saying. What you've been saying is that D1 lynches are random unless a newb slips up. It's kind of sad if the person who's putting pressure on you the most has been able to state your argument before you could.

Intent to lynch is building a case on someone with grounded suspicions and trying to get more people on the wagon behind you. Throwing a vote at someone because of one thing they did seemed scummy is different.

That doesn't even make sense. You are throwing a vote at me because I did something scummy but you aren't going to follow it up? This is why we have the FoS. It clearly marks the line between that looks suspicious and I want to lynch you.

That and this is I think my first game with sheep(and maybe his first game? Havn't seen him around)

Yes I have, been a little preoccupied with the wagon on me. And either way, still my first game with him and I dont know his playstyle

Do your research when you post. Skimming looks scummy and here you are admitting to it.

Shying away from discussion, a very early drive to prove that your pro-town, poor playing, skimming. There's several, non-random, reasons to lynch you. If people have been lynched from a bandwagon of joke votes then this should be plenty. Vote Naxus

You haven't seen me before because I stopped playing for a few years. I played in 2007 (wow, time flies). A lot of the older players know me, they also know I'm a goofball.

Vote Count
16 alive 9 to lynch

Mandalorian () ~
Jeraado (1) ~ Campin Killer
Streaker (2) ~ ShaggyDan, Mandalorian
Safariguy5 () ~
Naxus (8) ~ Fircoal, Safariguy5, Commander9, Anarkistsdream, Streaker, Sheepofdumb, Iliad Soundman ~ L-1
Sheepofdumb (2) ~ Naxus, Strike Wolf
Anarkistsdream () ~
Fircoal () ~
Commander9 () ~
ShaggyDan () ~
Soundman () ~
Iliad (1) ~ VioIet
VioIet () ~
Nagerous () ~
Campin Killer () ~
Strike Wolf () ~

Unvotes are not required to change your vote, some shade of red is required however. If Nag had voted in red (and my VC is correct) that would have been a lynch.

This is all the relevant material on Naxus. Look at the cases and look at the vote count. Up until later in the day after pressure built this was basically my case. When you consider my HSP and how my emotions are, it kinda makes it obvious why I’d keep my vote on Naxus.