The Murder Of Albarezzi- End Game- Mafia Wins!

[pancakemix]

And did pancake disappear again?

Since when was not posting for 24 hours "disappearing"? I can't just let something play out, can I?

On Nark: I am actually inclined to believe Nark is a Jester. There's his scummy behavior for starters, which has been stated enough and can be symptomatic of Jester.Then there's the bomb claim. There are only 3 possibilities:

1. He's telling the truth. Obviously in hindsight this is not the case. But even when it was under consideration it has the distinction of being really bad. Let's move on, shall we?

2.He's mafia trying to bluff us. Possible, to be sure. The bomb claim served as a bluff to keep from being lynched or nk'd. But why would a mafia act so blatantly scummy? And wouldn't he put a little more effort into the claim? Finally, we have:

3. He's a Jester and wants us to call his bluff. Like I said, the bomb claim isn't even well laid-out. It's very possible that this lack of design is, well, by design. In this scenario, he wants us to call his bluff so he can get lynched and win. It would also explain his openly scummy behavior.

Now there's this new claim. I find it fishy. Here's why:

1. It is extremely outlandish. So Nark claims to be a power role (vig) with a lover connection to another power role (JOAT)? Let's do the math here:

This is an 11 player game. Assuming the setup is standard, there should be 3 mafia. Now, if Nark is telling the truth, consider the idea of the vig, the JOAT, and the mafia killing the night after a mislynch. In a worst-case scenario, the townie-scum ratio would be 4:3, which is a LYLO scenario. On Day 2. Also consider that if we were to lynch him, the town would lose 2 pro town power roles plus endure a mafia kill. In this worst-case scenario, the townie-scum ratio is 5:3, yet another LYLO situation. And Nark, well aware of at the very least the limited implications of his actions, put himself in a position to be lynched by acting scummy and fakeclaiming? This is a townie?

2. He lied. This is the obvious one. It's also a really big one. When someone says stuff like...

I am 100% telling the truth.

...then they better be telling the truth. Need I go on here?

3. The lie doesn't even make sense, so why bother? So he lied. OK. Why? Nark claims it was because he "didn't want to out himself". That makes sense, I guess. But when people start asking questions about your role, why default to this claim? Why not just apply the character name to the bomb role? Clearly, it's not hard to make shit up, but a little flavor to the existing fake claim is far more plausible.

Nark CANNOT be town. Townies don't do this stuff. The only possibilities then are that he's either mafia or a jester. I lean jester because it just feels like a bluff he wants us to call him on. But that raises a number of other questions, like how a jester fits into the theme. These are things we need to discuss before we can make a final call, but as it stands, I believe there is no way he can be pro town. Thoughts?

[edocsil]

I am not satisfied with nark either, but I think the risks are too severe to lynch him. He will likely be investigated during the night, although things could be thorny if he if the GF.

[safariguy5]

Shoot if he's jester, just let someone NK him. In either way Vio, Nark is claiming something with no proof. Victor has someone else backing him up. And we need the investigative role more than we need the vig. Vigs may kill the wrong people, we need the cop to find the mafia roles.

Let's review the case on Yoshi shall we? I've been a bit put off by his evidence so far...

On Vio/PCM:

Commander: Sorry i haven't posted much of substance. The Vio/PCM thing was really awkward and I didn't want to put my opinions cuz i Thought they would get me killed. Seriously.

I realize this topic is dead now, but here is what I thought about it. The case by Vio was based on nothing. If PCM was innocent, Vio would totally be up from a framing, if she ISN'T mafia. However, since it might be a 3 faction game, she could be up for framing even if she is mafia. Also, PCM could be an opposing mafia faction and she might get off the hook (if it's a 3 faction game). So while I wanted to vote Violet for starting the whole rigamarole, I didn't want to be a bandwagon jumper who got killed in an effort to frame Violet. Now that pressure seems to have moved elsewhere. I will unvote vote Violet for extremely suspicious behaviour. As to your list, Commander, if those people on your town list turn up as mafia, it would look reflect poorly on your judgement.

As to the Victor issue, I say let him fry, if he is not scum, hopefully we can gleam something from the voting patterns of those who are.

Where are you getting this 3 faction idea from? 11 player game doesn't really seem like there could be a cult. Maybe a third party survivor, but I doubt it. Also, Comm9 making the list is just impressions. I wouldn't hold him to the validity of it. I have a problem with your rationale here. You're all for letting Victor hang yet you refuse to vote him and instead target Vio? Looks like you're trying to split the wagon without getting a scumbuddy into more pressure. So the logic behind the post seems to be trying to distance yourself from the wagon and then possibly hammering later to cover your tracks.

FOS DoomYoshi

However, I still think Victor is a more compelling case right now because if he was following the thread, surely there has been more than enough action now to comment on. I find it hard to believe that Victor has nothing to say on the PCM wagon, the accusastions of Vio, Comm9's list, or defense of his own wagon.

WIFOM arguments on speculating what mafia will do:

It is not a WIFOM argument. I am saying that the same action should be taken regardless of whether she is mafia, knowing full well that she is most likely town. When I say frame, I didn't mean the mafia ability frame. I meant the mafia would kill someone who had voted for violet in order to frame her in the eyes of the town. That is why I had earlier stated that my opinions could get me killed, as I am the perfect target.

Then it's a WIFOM argument again. Mafia might think that we think they're going to frame Vio with the kill and kill someone who didn't hop on the bandwagon. In fact, when I'm mafia, we usually leave the people who make accusations around because it's easier to pin blame on them later. It's a circular argument, we cannot use what we think the mafia is going to do as basis for what we do now. All we can do is see what the mafia did and then try to go from there.

But the strongest piece of evidence: Trying to continue the wagon on Victor while deflecting pressure from anark. Also casts doubt on Nark's claim, whatever it is.

Unvote neither of the claims are all that believable although narks is moreso. So I must Vote victor.

More believable? A town bomb role at the time over a probable cop/doc role with backup confirmation?

For using dodgy logic, for trying to divert focus, for using WIFOM arguments, I will have to

vote DoomYoshi

[Anarkistsdream]

How the hell would I know what my Lovers powers are?

We're on day one. Haven't been able to talk to the person at night to find out.

As far as everyone still not believing me, tough cookies. I will not say anything more, nor out my partner. If you guys kill me, ie, me and my lover, than this game will definitely get MUCH shorter, as two powerful townies will be dead.

As to why claim bomb- I was a bomb in the last game fircoal just ran and it seemed like a good idea at the time. Looking back, it wasn't such a great idea.

I would also like to point out that two people who are masoned do NOT have to be the same group... How many times has someone been masoned to a mafia member, a cult member, or something equally dubious? Quite a few. It has happened to me, and we were talking in the Mafia thread about it happening to others. I'm not saying they both aren't town, just that it has happened.

[spiesr]

I would also like to point out that two people who are masoned do NOT have to be the same group... How many times has someone been masoned to a mafia member, a cult member, or something equally dubious? Quite a few. It has happened to me, and we were talking in the Mafia thread about it happening to others. I'm not saying they both aren't town, just that it has happened.

That applies to lovers as well though. Beware the meteor!

[Anarkistsdream]

I would also like to point out that two people who are masoned do NOT have to be the same group... How many times has someone been masoned to a mafia member, a cult member, or something equally dubious? Quite a few. It has happened to me, and we were talking in the Mafia thread about it happening to others. I'm not saying they both aren't town, just that it has happened.

That applies to lovers as well though. Beware the meteor!

But I was TOLD exactly what my partner is. Unless the masons were as well, I can guarantee I know what my partner is.

[Commander9]

Fine, fine... You want me to fully claim

I am Valentino De Luca, Town Vig and Lover of another character here, though I will not tell you who, obviously.

I am not a bomb, nor am I scum.

If you kill me, you kill my lover too, who is a Jack of All Trades. This would obviously be a mistake. However, since I have a vig role, I did not want to out myself too easily, as that makes me definite target for mafia at night.

Well, at least I was right about your bluff.

This claim is much better, but with all of the actions you have done so far, you don't smell pro-town to me at all. I do want to believe you, but lovers claim could be a perfect disguise to mafia, especially since you're afraid to oust your partner (if you're a mafia goon or GF and you get lynched, at least your scummate would be safe). I need more time to think this through.

Spiesr is likely clean as he was willing to sacrifice himself for the towns benefit.

He is the list

1. Nark
2. Commander
3. pancake
4. safari
5. spiesr
6. Vi
7. Edoc
8. /
9. drabod
10. Sully
11. Yoshi

IMO I think Yoshi or PCM would be the best possible lynches. You already know my thoughts on PCM. Yoshi waffled quite a bit between Nark and Vic, trying to follow public opinion but really just drawing attention to himself. others have also stated cases against him that I find plausible.

Unvote Vote Yoshi

Also Nark, I do desire to know if your lover has a protection.

Wait, waaaait a minute - Edoc, are you saying that you are masoned with 2 people now? I have no idea how you know that spiesr is town too?


@ PCM - a very good post. I totally agree that all of the actions that nark has done so far just scream that he's not pro-town. I, however, don't think he could have pulled off a jester so well, so I'd assume he's either a 3rd party (no friend of town) or he's a mafia representative. It's really hard to decide what to do as his story is full of holes, but if he actually would be a lover, it could cost us really gravely. (Still, what kind of an experienced player would play like this?)

I would also like to point out that two people who are masoned do NOT have to be the same group... How many times has someone been masoned to a mafia member, a cult member, or something equally dubious? Quite a few. It has happened to me, and we were talking in the Mafia thread about it happening to others. I'm not saying they both aren't town, just that it has happened.

I don't think I've ever seen not pro-town masons, yet I've seen lovers of different alignments quite a few times (Crusades mafia and San Francisco mafia burst into mind.

How the hell would I know what my Lovers powers are?

But I was TOLD exactly what my partner is. Unless the masons were as well, I can guarantee I know what my partner is.

Getting confused with your lies?

[Anarkistsdream]

Being told that your Lover is also in Blue and being told what the mod decided to give the JOAT for abilities at night are two different things... Neither one are lies.

Usually, when you are being told who you are masoned with, you are told, "You may talk to Player A and Player B at night" You are never given their roles or character names...

Look guys, the mafia is loving you guys jumping all over me, while at the same time we are all dragging out Day 1.

I do agree that it is odd how Edoc knows Spiesr is also town.

Commander, I love how you always through in little comments like "But how could an experienced person play like this?" After you have played SO MANY games, it gets boring doing the same thing every time. Also, sometimes there are extenuating circumstances that may dictate why someone says or does a certain thing. People have their own strategies, and just because someone doesn't play with YOUR set of strategies doesn't mean that they are playing WRONG. Get over it.

[DoomYoshi]

Before I defend myself saf and edoc, humour me with an answer to a n00b question: how many docs are usually in an 11 player game?

[safariguy5]

Before I defend myself saf and edoc, humour me with an answer to a n00b question: how many docs are usually in an 11 player game?

Usually 1, but there can be no set doc and have say a JOAT with protect and bodyguard combo to compensate. Jailkeeper is also a possibility. But a straight up saving role is usually just 1.

[edocsil]

Before I defend myself saf and edoc, humour me with an answer to a n00b question: how many docs are usually in an 11 player game?

Usually 1, but there can be no set doc and have say a JOAT with protect and bodyguard combo to compensate. Jailkeeper is also a possibility. But a straight up saving role is usually just 1.

Exactly

[Commander9]

Edoc, so by any chance you'd mind answering the question?

Also, unvote AD - I guess I do believe him now (his recent posts make much more sense) and risks of losing him might be a bit too much.

[DoomYoshi]

I would like to start this defense with the fact that edocs vote is an OMGUS in disguise. I basically called edoc a liar when I voted for Victor. At the time, Nark had only offered his first claim. If I could've predicted the mess around that would've followed (as if anyone can decipher what his motives are at this point) I would not have doubted the claim.

I at first was thinking the mafia alliance was saf, edoc and victor and then edoc voted for me... however, after reading old posts, there is something not quite right with that argument. I am not quite sure what it is anymore. I know if I vote Nark right now, you will point to it as vote hopping or bandwagoning or whatever. That is where my spiritual vote is right now.

As for you saf, you seem to be after me as soon as commander gave you the pretense. The only one who has a rightful gripe with me at this point is Vi, and she has been mum on the subject. Why so pushy saf? In any case, if we lynch Victor, not only do we get rid of a more-or-less non-entity (who may not even make the deadline to use his superpowers) but we can clear through some of the potential lies.

This is turning out to be a great day 1. I realize my defense is rather flimsy. I will point out in closing, the cases against me: posting little of substance and WIFOMing are hardly cases indeed. If perhaps you suggested that the suggestion of killing someone who is most likely a townie for that reason was scummy, I would have been forced to agree. I do not sense any real argument on your part, and therefore, I can not offer any great defense. If you want to lynch me, fine, I enjoy a good lynching every now and then, but let's wait a while and see what new balderdash Nark will spew out.

[edocsil]

I would like to start this defense with the fact that edocs vote is an OMGUS in disguise. I basically called edoc a liar when I voted for Victor. At the time, Nark had only offered his first claim. If I could've predicted the mess around that would've followed (as if anyone can decipher what his motives are at this point) I would not have doubted the claim.

I at first was thinking the mafia alliance was saf, edoc and victor and then edoc voted for me... however, after reading old posts, there is something not quite right with that argument. I am not quite sure what it is anymore. I know if I vote Nark right now, you will point to it as vote hopping or bandwagoning or whatever. That is where my spiritual vote is right now.

As for you saf, you seem to be after me as soon as commander gave you the pretense. The only one who has a rightful gripe with me at this point is Vi, and she has been mum on the subject. Why so pushy saf? In any case, if we lynch Victor, not only do we get rid of a more-or-less non-entity (who may not even make the deadline to use his superpowers) but we can clear through some of the potential lies.

This is turning out to be a great day 1. I realize my defense is rather flimsy. I will point out in closing, the cases against me: posting little of substance and WIFOMing are hardly cases indeed. If perhaps you suggested that the suggestion of killing someone who is most likely a townie for that reason was scummy, I would have been forced to agree. I do not sense any real argument on your part, and therefore, I can not offer any great defense. If you want to lynch me, fine, I enjoy a good lynching every now and then, but let's wait a while and see what new balderdash Nark will spew out.

You lose, Victor and Nark are not acceptable people to shift attention to.

To the others, the reason I am willing to bet good money that spiesr is town is that he was willing to risk killing himself for what he believed to be the greater good. That is not something that a scum would do.

And Nark, I am going to assume that your lover is a standard JOAT for the sake of the argument, and has a "investigating, protecting and killing" according to the wiki. I would like him to protect you and the town doc to get victor. Just want to ensure we don't get anyone over protected.

[VioIet]

I think another vote count would be helpful. I would like to see where things stand.
Drabod has been out of the picture for awhile- I don't want us to overlook any inactives.

Yoshi, I liked your post, and I suppose I need to pay a bit more attention to safari. Nothing about him this game, has stood out to me yet. The thing is though - I definitely believe edoc over anark, and i think it isn't likely that he or victor are mafia.

I don't get the vibe that edoc and spiers are masoned. I'm not sure where that came from. Edoc simply said that he feels spiers is town because he was risking to sacrafice himself for the good of the town. IN other words, he was saying that mafia wouldn't likely risk hammering anark (if he were a bomb). This in no way implied that they were masons- even if you read between the lines. Well, not to me anyways.

This is a very jumpy Day 1 so far. And at the rate this day 1 is going- I probably will have made a case on everyone

Oh and I think Victor needs to be replaced really soon- or come in here and say something asap.

[safariguy5]

I would like to start this defense with the fact that edocs vote is an OMGUS in disguise. I basically called edoc a liar when I voted for Victor. At the time, Nark had only offered his first claim. If I could've predicted the mess around that would've followed (as if anyone can decipher what his motives are at this point) I would not have doubted the claim.

I at first was thinking the mafia alliance was saf, edoc and victor and then edoc voted for me... however, after reading old posts, there is something not quite right with that argument. I am not quite sure what it is anymore. I know if I vote Nark right now, you will point to it as vote hopping or bandwagoning or whatever. That is where my spiritual vote is right now.

As for you saf, you seem to be after me as soon as commander gave you the pretense. The only one who has a rightful gripe with me at this point is Vi, and she has been mum on the subject. Why so pushy saf? In any case, if we lynch Victor, not only do we get rid of a more-or-less non-entity (who may not even make the deadline to use his superpowers) but we can clear through some of the potential lies.

This is turning out to be a great day 1. I realize my defense is rather flimsy. I will point out in closing, the cases against me: posting little of substance and WIFOMing are hardly cases indeed. If perhaps you suggested that the suggestion of killing someone who is most likely a townie for that reason was scummy, I would have been forced to agree. I do not sense any real argument on your part, and therefore, I can not offer any great defense. If you want to lynch me, fine, I enjoy a good lynching every now and then, but let's wait a while and see what new balderdash Nark will spew out.

You lose, Victor and Nark are not acceptable people to shift attention to.

To the others, the reason I am willing to bet good money that spiesr is town is that he was willing to risk killing himself for what he believed to be the greater good. That is not something that a scum would do.

And Nark, I am going to assume that your lover is a standard JOAT for the sake of the argument, and has a "investigating, protecting and killing" according to the wiki. I would like him to protect you and the town doc to get victor. Just want to ensure we don't get anyone over protected.

First, way to hide an OMGUS in your post. Second, Victor has said as much that he's following the thread and has posted. Now that he's proven he's not inactive, I have confidence that he will send in night actions.

You also seem to completely ignore the fact that edoc is basically saying that he vouches for Victor as his backup. Attacking someone who has a second player backing him up on Day 1 makes no sense. Victor has more credibility to me right now than everyone else.

Just because you focused your attention on Vio doesn't mean that nobody else can present a case on you. It happens all the time. By now trying to deflect blame on the two people who have already claimed makes it look like you're trying to restart the wagon on them and end the day quickly to get to a nightkill. When under pressure, you're supposed to explain yourself, not try and pass it off on other player's actions.

Again, the main crux of my case on you was the vote on victor when people suspected nark. The vote looks like you're trying to stay active as scum but fear the possibility of the bomb taking you out.

[pancakemix]

As an aside, this is probably one of the best Day 1s in a long while. It's certainly not Sherwood caliber, but it's probably more productive than that D1.

On to Yoshi: I'm really not sure what to make of this situation. To some degree I feel like there's a lot of inexperience factoring into what he says. At the same time, he seems pretty logical, but his vote on Victor doesn't. For now, I'll hold off and ask politely for a VC.

Also (on Nark), not sure if this makes a difference but it's worth pointing out: Vig is a standard scum claim.

[safariguy5]

As an aside, this is probably one of the best Day 1s in a long while. It's certainly not Sherwood caliber, but it's probably more productive than that D1.

On to Yoshi: I'm really not sure what to make of this situation. To some degree I feel like there's a lot of inexperience factoring into what he says. At the same time, he seems pretty logical, but his vote on Victor doesn't. For now, I'll hold off and ask politely for a VC.

Also (on Nark), not sure if this makes a difference but it's worth pointing out: Vig is a standard scum claim.

Yeah, started off pretty slow though...

About the vig claim, pretty ballsy to link it with a lover if it is fake no?

[Commander9]

To the others, the reason I am willing to bet good money that spiesr is town is that he was willing to risk killing himself for what he believed to be the greater good. That is not something that a scum would do.

Okay, I'll just throw in an idea - Anark's claim was an obvious fake and people called it earlier than spiesr did. If he was mafia, why shouldn't he take a very small risk of Anark being town to gaining a lot of credibility? I'm not saying that he's scum, but Edoc, I really don't like the way you are already saying he's a confirmed townie...

Yeah, started off pretty slow though...

About the vig claim, pretty ballsy to link it with a lover if it is fake no?

Both yes and no. He never said who his partner was and this could be a very good way for a mafia GF to claim - a lover vig (who will appear innocent if investigated) who has a very strong partner who's not named it.

[Drabod]

With Narks recent claims, i am assured to believe that he is telling the truth why else would he have produced so much detail and information however at day one its a too big risk to take with his abilities being key later on in the game. Town will need his help, however an investagtion into him at night time would be a good idea. Then we can know for sure if hes telling the truth...

Victor - I feel victor hasnt got the time to play the game and it would benefit his replacement if he didnt have a mass majority of votes and there is evidence that victor is town, therefore no case there...

Doom Yoshi - This player has been the most suspicious in my eyes throughout the game, firstly he tried to push the case on victor even though victors claiming to be the doc even though anark had claimed to be a bomb at the time. Then he has now quickly changed his mind and is "spiritually" voting anark. Both of the claimed roles are effective when used well to the town and key for the town to succeed. So spirtually i feel he has no case on either of them as i previously stated.

But what also confused me when providing a defence and throughout day 1, Doom Yoshi has never mentioned town succeding or how he is town. Or beneftial to the town in anyway shape or form, surely if you was getting close to lynch whatever side you are on, you would atleast make the effort to describe how the town need you ..... Confusing.

Vote Doom Yoshi.

Mod - Vote count please

[/]

WTF, that makes no sense, from what I've seen of sax's random guesses at setup in the matrix mafia, he is at least partially sane. from what we have seen in the opening scene, there is the "Albarezzi Mafia" and the "Mallini Mafia", for there to also be a town vig, tied to a JOAT leaves the potential for 4 freaking kills a night in an 11 player game. Nark is a good player, but this is beyond BS "Hahaha, you can't touch me, I'm a bomb" "Wait, that didn't work? crap, wait I'm the town vig and.... uhhh you lose a jack of all trades if you kill me!" I swear he must be one of the two godfathers, go ahead and lynch me tomorrow if he doesn't flip scum.
Unvote vote Anarkistsdream

[edocsil]

WTF, that makes no sense, from what I've seen of sax's random guesses at setup in the matrix mafia, he is at least partially sane. from what we have seen in the opening scene, there is the "Albarezzi Mafia" and the "Mallini Mafia", for there to also be a town vig, tied to a JOAT leaves the potential for 4 freaking kills a night in an 11 player game. Nark is a good player, but this is beyond BS "Hahaha, you can't touch me, I'm a bomb" "Wait, that didn't work? crap, wait I'm the town vig and.... uhhh you lose a jack of all trades if you kill me!" I swear he must be one of the two godfathers, go ahead and lynch me tomorrow if he doesn't flip scum.
Unvote vote Anarkistsdream

It isn't going to happen. We are just going to have to wait for the cops to get back on this one.

[spiesr]

With Narks recent claims, i am assured to believe that he is telling the truth why else would he have produced so much detail and information.

Why would he put some much information into it? Maybe because the claim he made immediately beforehand was being called out for not having such information.

About the vig claim, pretty ballsy to link it with a lover if it is fake no?

The lover part of his new claim reminds me of the bomb claim he made before it. Both claims try to scare the town away from voting for him.

But what also confused me when providing a defence and throughout day 1, Doom Yoshi has never mentioned town succeding or how he is town. Or beneftial to the town in anyway shape or form, surely if you was getting close to lynch whatever side you are on, you would at least make the effort to describe how the town need you ..... Confusing.

What is confusing here is what sort of logic you have behind this statement. You are suspicious of someone, in part, becuase he hasn't mention that he is town? I also don't understand how you want him to argue that he is beneficial to the town. He hasn't role claimed yet so saying how important his role is wouldn't make sense. What do you want him to do, say that he is super good at scum hunting and therefor we shouldn't lynch because of that?

Town will need his help, however an investagtion into him at night time would be a good idea. Then we can know for sure if hes telling the truth...

All this direction the cop makes me a little uncomfortable. You know who gains from telling the cop where to go, scum. If AD really is town, then the scum would be quite happy to have the cop investigate him tonight, as then the cop won't find any of them. They can always kill him at their leisure later in the game. Also, on the off chance that the mafia has a framer, then having an idea where the cop will be going tonight makes that job really easy.
Victor, the solar flares haven't crashed the internet yet, so it would be nice if you could join us for some discussion...

[/]

WTF, that makes no sense, from what I've seen of sax's random guesses at setup in the matrix mafia, he is at least partially sane. from what we have seen in the opening scene, there is the "Albarezzi Mafia" and the "Mallini Mafia", for there to also be a town vig, tied to a JOAT leaves the potential for 4 freaking kills a night in an 11 player game. Nark is a good player, but this is beyond BS "Hahaha, you can't touch me, I'm a bomb" "Wait, that didn't work? crap, wait I'm the town vig and.... uhhh you lose a jack of all trades if you kill me!" I swear he must be one of the two godfathers, go ahead and lynch me tomorrow if he doesn't flip scum.
Unvote vote Anarkistsdream

It isn't going to happen. We are just going to have to wait for the cops to get back on this one.

because "came up town" = town in a game with two mafia factions, IE: 2/11 possible mafia godfathers?
The only reason I would believe this claim is if the lover came forward, but that won't happen either because they are the Jack of All Trades supposedly sealing the whole "It's impossible to lynch me" fakeclaim deal.

[Commander9]

because "came up town" = town in a game with two mafia factions, IE: 2/11 possible mafia godfathers?
The only reason I would believe this claim is if the lover came forward, but that won't happen either because they are the Jack of All Trades supposedly sealing the whole "It's impossible to lynch me" fakeclaim deal.

Dude where did you came up with these 2 GF's? Most of the Albarezzi's were murdered and only 2 remain and they kind of seem like the good guys.