The Big Lebowski Mafia - Mafia and Lyncher win!

[FloresDelMal]

so i suppose the obvious question is, how new are you to mafia doom yoshi? is this your first game? because if it is, i suppose your mistakes were rather innocent and that could grant an unvote

[Commander9]

Would a Scum work so hard to lynch someone on Day 1? Or would he just throw his vote in and let the townies do all the work? Principles of Aikido suggest the second strategy is better, so I conclude that Yoshi is a noob (no offense men, we all were) and Pancake is a seasoned scum. Vote Pancake

AiKiDo? Nice - my favourite martial art. Respect to you from my part about the whole idea of this post. In fact, my case is indeed against PCM as well.

Lets start with something rather simple:

*Since the game started, until being pointed out as an inactive, he barely contributed. Afterwards, while he has been posting, the posts were rather sparse.

*After the initial activity shock and he posts this and then comes back to his hiatus.

I'd say the people who voted me were the scummiest (more safari, though). Call it OMGUS, but the votes were baseless. I would also say that the people who thought it odd that I should show up after I got voted were just trying to find something on me.

Then there's the Streaker case. He's made no response to the accusations against him, so I've nothing to say at this point. However, safari seemed very eager to jump at Streaker after he was very eager to jump at me, and there seems to be a pattern developing. I understand wanting a lynch due to deadlines, but the first sign of something amiss is not always the ideal option.

A post that seemingly has something in it, but as you read it more deeply, it doesn't have a lot of substance - he says that people who voted are scummy and then points out that Safari and Streaker have jumped quickly with their votes.

*After that he saids that he wants me to post something (Read - "I want you to direct me somewhere") and then quickly jumps over yoshi (same as Safari and Streaker had done before) and when Mandy points that out, he says that Mandy's now jumping too fast.

To summarize, I think that he has been less active than usually and has stayed rather low during this time while acting mildly scummy. Vote PCM.

[Anarkistsdream]

Strike Wolf, you seem awfully protective of Yoshi...

[strike wolf]

*shrugs* I just think the quick hammer case against him is bullshit. It's not like it was immediate or a strong claim and i can honestly see how a person who's only been in two complete mafia games and 4 on going one's including this one could have mistaken that scenario. It's not like it was the strongest claim that's ever been given in mafia and the intention behind it didn't seem malicious to me. I understand that it was a quick lynch and quite a few people are up in arms about it and I did say I believed that I could see it warranting an investigation from the cop but I didn't find it horribly scummy.

[Iliad]

I am guessing the scum left me alive as they figured I would be an easy lynch today. The way I see it they killed edocsil to frame me. If I was playing as mafia, that's what I would do. An alternate is that the vig is the one who killed edoc. If so, that's very random of you. I don't think he would've been a great target. So we need to know if there is a vig out there.

I will formally apologize about my quick hammer yesterday. In the end, he turned out to be a town thief, which I regret, but I still don't understand why he didn't truthfully claim.

Read: "I couldn't have done it! It makes too much sense!" That's WIFOM and I don't like it.

If it was a vig, I'm also curious as to the choice, but I'm not sold that's the case here.

Except that he didn't. Thief is investigative. Or are we on something else?

Would a Scum work so hard to lynch someone on Day 1? Or would he just throw his vote in and let the townies do all the work? Principles of Aikido suggest the second strategy is better, so I conclude that Yoshi is a noob (no offense men, we all were) and Pancake is a seasoned scum. Vote Pancake

A seasoned scum probably wouldn't work so hard, but an inexperienced might assume that would be what he is supposed to do. Although Yoshi has dropped quite a few tells, they seem more like signs of inexperience.

My basis for the vig offing edoc is the flavour of the bowling ball, I haven't seen the movie, but I have heard of that quote and that some of the main characters are fans of bowling.

[Commander9]

A seasoned scum probably wouldn't work so hard, but an inexperienced might assume that would be what he is supposed to do. Although Yoshi has dropped quite a few tells, they seem more like signs of inexperience.

My basis for the vig offing edoc is the flavour of the bowling ball, I haven't seen the movie, but I have heard of that quote and that some of the main characters are fans of bowling.

I actually think that was a kill from mafia (or sk) - Jesus Quintana.

[pancakemix]

Lets start with something rather simple:

*Since the game started, until being pointed out as an inactive, he barely contributed. Afterwards, while he has been posting, the posts were rather sparse.

I'll say it again: if nothing's going on, I have nothing to go on. This is no argument.

*After the initial activity shock and he posts this and then comes back to his hiatus.

I'd say the people who voted me were the scummiest (more safari, though). Call it OMGUS, but the votes were baseless. I would also say that the people who thought it odd that I should show up after I got voted were just trying to find something on me.

Then there's the Streaker case. He's made no response to the accusations against him, so I've nothing to say at this point. However, safari seemed very eager to jump at Streaker after he was very eager to jump at me, and there seems to be a pattern developing. I understand wanting a lynch due to deadlines, but the first sign of something amiss is not always the ideal option.

A post that seemingly has something in it, but as you read it more deeply, it doesn't have a lot of substance - he says that people who voted are scummy and then points out that Safari and Streaker have jumped quickly with their votes.

I admitted then it was unsubstantial and I'll admit it now because *gasp* I had nothing to go on. And I'm really not sure why you decided to summarize my post. I will say, though, that I didn't make that accusation of Streaker. In fact, I made no accusations on Streaker and only talked about Safari.

*After that he saids that he wants me to post something (Read - "I want you to direct me somewhere") and then quickly jumps over yoshi (same as Safari and Streaker had done before) and when Mandy points that out, he says that Mandy's now jumping too fast.

By "quick to jump" I meant quick to jump on with a vote (i.e. wagon). I have not voted Yoshi and probably won't unless he does something very scummy. Don't try to argue that he didn't pull a WIFOM there. As for Mandy, his post is really baseless. As I said there, I pointed out the WIFOM and the rest was commentary.

To summarize, I think that he has been less active than usually and has stayed rather low during this time while acting mildly scummy. Vote PCM.

So your points against me are:
-Quiet
-Quiet
-Scummy

Yes. Definitely vote worthy there.

IT'S BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLD!

And before you call me a broken record, show me where I could've found scum based on that activity. Obviously, no one else could.

[nagerous]

Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man!

Doom (1) Flores
Pancake (2) Mandy, Commander

12 alive, takes 7 to lynch

[FloresDelMal]

i can honestly see how a person who's only been in two complete mafia games and 4 on going one's including this one could have mistaken that scenario.

2 complete mafia games doesnt seem like too much to me, but i still could like to hear from yoshi himself, and indeed you seem quite protective strike

[DoomYoshi]

i can honestly see how a person who's only been in two complete mafia games and 4 on going one's including this one could have mistaken that scenario.

2 complete mafia games doesnt seem like too much to me, but i still could like to hear from yoshi himself, and indeed you seem quite protective strike

I think it's 3 complete mafias actually... but I started playing in February or thereabouts... I am still fairly new. I did think I caught him in a lie, as I didn't look up the thief role and I didn't think it was investigative.

I apologized for what was perceived as the quick hammer, and I will definitely wait until closer to the deadline in the future.

[Commander9]

PCM, I'll respond later on tonight.

[strike wolf]

Defensive of yoshi? Well personally I think he's shown more signs of being inexperienced town than being mafia so yeah I'd rather offer up a defense for him than see someone I think is town be lynched. Unfortunately at the same time, I really haven't found any good scum tells. I am not convinced enough by the pancake wagon to lend my voice to it and I've reread the thread without too much to show for it. If there is one thing I've noticed Nark has been flying a bit below the radar.

[Anarkistsdream]

Flying below the radar how? I am making points on people when I notice them. Hell, my posts may be one liners, but they have always made some sort of commentary on the game. Better than repeating "he's inexperienced town."

Unvote if needed
Vote: Strike

[strike wolf]

You've made some mostly short comments that have (before your last pot) accumulated into one serious vote. Other than that yeah I have a tendency to repeat myself. I really don't know why it irritates the hell out of me to have to repeat myself and so often...I can't stop doing it.

[Commander9]

IT'S BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLD!

And before you call me a broken record, show me where I could've found scum based on that activity. Obviously, no one else could.

That's the whole thing - you're not even trying. I'm not saying that is a clear-cut strong case, but you've barely participated AND you didn't encourage others to go scum-hunting. One way or another I would like this game to start going somewhere with people being involved and posting and hopefully finding scum. I have a couple of other suspicions, but for now I'm feeling fairly fine with keeping my vote on you and unless something better comes up, I'll continue to do so.

[pancakemix]

IT'S BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLD!

And before you call me a broken record, show me where I could've found scum based on that activity. Obviously, no one else could.

That's the whole thing - you're not even trying. I'm not saying that is a clear-cut strong case, but you've barely participated AND you didn't encourage others to go scum-hunting. One way or another I would like this game to start going somewhere with people being involved and posting and hopefully finding scum. I have a couple of other suspicions, but for now I'm feeling fairly fine with keeping my vote on you and unless something better comes up, I'll continue to do so.

So lead a lynch on flimsy evidence?

Do explain that last bit, because I can't wrap my mind around how "Go get'm, tiger!" improves my standing.

Fair enough...

...but this is incredibly counterproductive. If you want discussion and you have suspicions, why are you keeping your vote on me and not sharing them? Even the slightest thing is worth bringing up.

[strike wolf]

Have to agree with pancake on that matter. If you have suspicions bring them up. I have with held suspicions in the past and they have usually either come back to bite me (or even if they didn't I still wish I had stated them) or it was a specific circumstance in which at the time it actually would not prove productive to say so (very rare) especially in this game where we are early on and not many people have come up with much to say, presenting a few different suspects can help the cause.

[Commander9]

So lead a lynch on flimsy evidence?

Do explain that last bit, because I can't wrap my mind around how "Go get'm, tiger!" improves my standing.

Fair enough...

...but this is incredibly counterproductive. If you want discussion and you have suspicions, why are you keeping your vote on me and not sharing them? Even the slightest thing is worth bringing up.

I'm fairly sure you are allowed to claim and this pressure at least got you posting, so I somewhat happy.

You say that there's nothing to build a case upon... Well, if you would have posted something constructive (or even something that would stimulate any sorts of thinking), we would perhaps something more concrete.

Think of it this way: what happens if I bring up something about 4 people and do 4 FoS'es? People say that I'm inconsistent, diverting attention and afraid to vote. I do want discussion, but I don't want everybody talking about different things.

[Commander9]

Have to agree with pancake on that matter. If you have suspicions bring them up. I have with held suspicions in the past and they have usually either come back to bite me (or even if they didn't I still wish I had stated them) or it was a specific circumstance in which at the time it actually would not prove productive to say so (very rare) especially in this game where we are early on and not many people have come up with much to say, presenting a few different suspects can help the cause.

But if I bring up something on different 5 individuals, I'm just splitting the town with various information. I'd prefer to have one case, analyse it and see what we can get it from it and whether it's worth more pressure or not. After all of this, we move on. If anyone else has anything better to bring up or suggest, I'm down with hearing that, but as of now, I'd like to pressure PCM.

[pancakemix]

I'm fairly sure you are allowed to claim and this pressure at least got you posting, so I somewhat happy.

You say that there's nothing to build a case upon... Well, if you would have posted something constructive (or even something that would stimulate any sorts of thinking), we would perhaps something more concrete.

Think of it this way: what happens if I bring up something about 4 people and do 4 FoS'es? People say that I'm inconsistent, diverting attention and afraid to vote. I do want discussion, but I don't want everybody talking about different things.

I'm more concerned with fighting poor arguments than I am with making them.

Perhaps. Or perhaps this thread would merely be a few posts longer and we wouldn't be having this discussion, and then there would be nothing save for the bit on strike being "defensive of Yoshi", which I'm not sure I buy but that's another post.

No one told you to say them all at once.

[strike wolf]

Again basically what pancake said... mention the one you feel most relevant first and explain the reasonings.

Also pancake just noticed the sig

[Commander9]

I'm more concerned with fighting poor arguments than I am with making them.

Perhaps. Or perhaps this thread would merely be a few posts longer and we wouldn't be having this discussion, and then there would be nothing save for the bit on strike being "defensive of Yoshi", which I'm not sure I buy but that's another post.

No one told you to say them all at once.

Who said you were supposed to make a poor argument?

Yet again, it would depend on what people post and it's just one of the possible scenarios - and you're skipping a bunch of them.

Well, that's what I'm pretty much reading - you want me to post something, then you don't like it and ask me to post some more and more.... I honestly don't like going after a lot of people at the same time and I usually find the best target (IMO) and pursue it. All of the other suspicions have even less basis on it, so I'm not sure why I should go to weaker cases.

Again basically what pancake said... mention the one you feel most relevant first and explain the reasonings.

I already did... and you didn't like it.

[pancakemix]

Who said you were supposed to make a poor argument?

Yet again, it would depend on what people post and it's just one of the possible scenarios - and you're skipping a bunch of them.

Well, that's what I'm pretty much reading - you want me to post something, then you don't like it and ask me to post some more and more.... I honestly don't like going after a lot of people at the same time and I usually find the best target (IMO) and pursue it. All of the other suspicions have even less basis on it, so I'm not sure why I should go to weaker cases.

If the basis is poor, I can't really expect the argument itself to be any good, now can I?

I would say you're skipping a bunch of them too. The permutations of who could post when and about what are infinite. I'll admit there are plenty of scenarios where what you say COULD be true, but there are just as many where it could be false.

If you feel your other cases are weaker, you've only proven my point. Nothing to go on. Blaming me for it will get you nowhere, as I've already pointed out.

[Commander9]

If the basis is poor, I can't really expect the argument itself to be any good, now can I?

I would say you're skipping a bunch of them too. The permutations of who could post when and about what are infinite. I'll admit there are plenty of scenarios where what you say COULD be true, but there are just as many where it could be false.

If you feel your other cases are weaker, you've only proven my point. Nothing to go on. Blaming me for it will get you nowhere, as I've already pointed out.

Who said the basis was poor? It's not much, sure, but it should still be enough to make a decent case (and I consider mine to be decent).

How am I skipping anything if I've not even mentioned possible ones? I'm not saying that all of them are good, but the likability of getting something better than this is higher than not - the more people post, the more chances for them to mess up.

I'm feeling that you're using a straw man here - I said that you COULD have done more, but decided not to. If indeed all of this posting is baseless and you feel that it's better to just stay quiet, why should we post at all?

[TA1LGUNN3R]

But pancake finally said something when his name came up... Look back a few posts...

Convenient.

Jumps on pcm immediately after he accumulates (2) votes, which were pretty weak. Honestly I just voted for pcm to see what others would say. Seizes an opportunity...

Sorry, dude... I may even believe you are a thief... But being a thief for the TOWN...? No sir, I don't buy that. At best, you are third party. And if you aren't going to bother to read the posts made in this game to make a believable story, then my assumption is you don't care to play.

Unvote
Vote: Streaker

Easy lynch on Streaker. I've only played with a thief once I think, was killed like N1 or something like that. Seems like an ambiguous role, one that a player could easily paint as anti-town. Also, with the townies who are already dead, it seems like it'd be easy to say Larry wouldn't be a town character (he's flunking social studies...).

Mandalorian makes a good point about Pancake.

What point was that? That D1 pancake didn't do much, as a scum maneuver? I don't really think anyone did much D1. Regardless, this is just one more example of Nark pointing discussion to latest suspect without incriminating himself too much.

Strike Wolf, you seem awfully protective of Yoshi...

Again.

Meh. I'll Vote Nark

Also, I promise to be more active. We had somebody quit at work about 2 weeks ago, so I've had to pick up the hours. I'm working full time and going to school. So busy. But I can make time for my games. I'm also very curious about the placement of town/scum roles. Jackie Treehorn and Woo flipping town surprised me. I guess Treehorn just wanted his money (not that different from what the Dude wanted) so, as a hireling of Treehorn, Woo would as well, but c'mon, he's not even house-broken. I guess that's Nag's attempt at discouraging us from too much flavor spec.

-Tails